FreeGrace2
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FreeGrace2 said: ↑
Please explain what is meant by "that kind of faith". Where does the Bible specify which "kind of faith" people have when the Bible notes that people believe?
Thanks.
So what they believed was by experience, not trust. But is seems that isn't clear to you.
Some children learn that a stove is hot by having touched the glowing element. They didn't have any faith that the element was hot until they touched it. Then they BELIEVED it was hot. Is that trusting? No, that is experience.
And, what the demons believed has NOTHING to do with salvation anyway. The object of what they believed was that God is One. That fact doesn't save anyone.
If Simon hadn't been saved, Peter would have given him the gospel TO BELIEVE. But he didn't.
Do you understand what this means? It means to have an open mind. And listen to the Spirit of Truth. And I know I'll never convince anyone of truth. That job belongs to the Holy Spirit.
All I can do is present the truth. The Holy Spirit does the rest, as long as people have ears and are actually listening.
Some people, including believers do this instead:
Acts 28-
25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26 “ ‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’
The red words describe unbelievers and some believers.
The blue words is the reason they "never understand/perceive".
The green words is the result IF IF IF they did open their eyes and ears. They would understand and turn, and God would heal them.
Please explain what is meant by "that kind of faith". Where does the Bible specify which "kind of faith" people have when the Bible notes that people believe?
Thanks.
And that's the same kind of faith I'm talking about. But since Luke described the people in Samaria who believed the words of Philip and were baptized the SAME WAY he described Simon the sorcerer who also believed and was baptized, it should be quite obvious that Simon was just as much saved as "the people who believed and were baptized". The Bible NEVER mentions "saving faith" because when the Bible says people believed, it means they were saved.The kind of faith that saves someone is what I'm talking about. I thought that would be obvious.
Here is shown how much misunderstanding you're applying to Scripture. James 2:19 isn't even about "faith". They weren't trusting in God as One. No. They had actually experienced "God as One". Before they joined Satan's rebellion in heaven.Even the demons believe and shudder, so I'm clearly not talking about that kind of faith.
So what they believed was by experience, not trust. But is seems that isn't clear to you.
Some children learn that a stove is hot by having touched the glowing element. They didn't have any faith that the element was hot until they touched it. Then they BELIEVED it was hot. Is that trusting? No, that is experience.
And, what the demons believed has NOTHING to do with salvation anyway. The object of what they believed was that God is One. That fact doesn't save anyone.
Because the Bible SAID he believed and was baptized. Same as the others. No different.Why would one agree that Simon, who believed and was baptized along with the others wouldn't have saving faith when he wanted to buy the gift of laying on of hands to impart the Spirit to others?
I see no relevance at all to the fact that Simon believed and was saved.Do you believe in sinless perfection?
Of course I understand and of course they do. Even Simon did. But what you seem to miss is that Simon wasn't filled with the Spirit, as Paul commanded in Eph 5:18. Rather, Simon was grieving (Eph 4:30) and/or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).Don't you understand that the ones who had saving faith received the Holy Spirit?
Just a lot of assumption here.Simon obviously didn't or else he wouldn't have wanted to pay for the ability to lay his hands on others to receive the Holy Spirit. That's not something that someone who had just received the Holy Spirit would have done.
Of course it would be exactly what any doctrinally solid person WOULD say to Simon. He needed to get into fellowship with the Lord, through repentance and confession.Also, if Simon was saved and had received the Holy Spirit then I'm certain that Peter wouldn't have said this to him:
Acts 8:20 Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! 21 You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. 22Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. 23 For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”
This is not something you say to someone who has just been saved and has received the Holy Spirit. Period.
If Simon hadn't been saved, Peter would have given him the gospel TO BELIEVE. But he didn't.
How true. To the 7 churches in Rev 2-3, Jesus ends each of his messages to the churches with "he who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches".You can't convince me otherwise.
Do you understand what this means? It means to have an open mind. And listen to the Spirit of Truth. And I know I'll never convince anyone of truth. That job belongs to the Holy Spirit.
All I can do is present the truth. The Holy Spirit does the rest, as long as people have ears and are actually listening.
Some people, including believers do this instead:
Acts 28-
25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your ancestors when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26 “ ‘Go to this people and say, “You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27 For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’
The red words describe unbelievers and some believers.
The blue words is the reason they "never understand/perceive".
The green words is the result IF IF IF they did open their eyes and ears. They would understand and turn, and God would heal them.
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