Evangelism and God’s Omniscience

Hammster said:

So the question is, since God knows who will be saved, and nothing can change this, why do we (or should we) evangelize? If God knows someone will be lost for eternity, what’s the point?

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God knowing who will live their life in such a way that they will be saved is not the same thing as God predesting them to be saved, and similarly no-one is predestined to hell - and in fact that idea is deeply immoral and incompatible with the notion of a loving God.

Hammster said:

I am posting this in General Theology because we agree that God’s knowledge of all events, past and future, is inexhaustible. Nothing that has come to pass, or will come to pass, is outside of His innate knowledge.

With that said, there is not a single person whose final disposition is unknown to God. He knows all who will be saved, and all who will not be saved. Since He knows this, nothing can change these facts.

So the question is, since God knows who will be saved, and nothing can change this, why do we (or should we) evangelize? If God knows someone will be lost for eternity, what’s the point? They will never believe regardless of how much preaching we do.

Open for discussion.

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We preach because we don't know who is going to be saved and who isn't. We have to assume that it could be anyone and everyone. We also have a duty to speak up at every opportunity. Preaching does more than just enough to save us, it also strengthens us to be better than just good enough.

Ezekiel 33_8
When I say to the wicked, 'O wicked man, you shall surely die!' and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood I will require at your hand.

So many times we've all watched or walked on by without saying a word.

Because WE do not know who is elect and who is not. Besides, it's a command of Christ to preach the Word and make disciples and fill the earth with His glory.

Hammster said:

Okay. Can you answer the question(s)?

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I did. I'm saying that your premises are faulty so that's the only answer I can give you.

Hammster said:

I never mentioned predestination. So you introduced something that’s not part of the argument. With that said, there’s nothing faulty about the premise.

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Your OP implied predestination even though it did not contain the word.

A good way to check my assumption would be this simple question: Do you believe in predestination? So, do you? A straight Yes or No would be very welcomed. If you answer No I'll abjectly admit I was wrong so how's that?

Hammster said:

I am posting this in General Theology because we agree that God’s knowledge of all events, past and future, is inexhaustible. Nothing that has come to pass, or will come to pass, is outside of His innate knowledge

With that said, there is not a single person whose final disposition is unknown to God. He knows all who will be saved, and all who will not be saved. Since He knows this, nothing can change these facts.

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Nothing changes the end point for each person. Like the second time you watch a movie - the movie ending does not change. Yet you did not dictate the script.

Hammster said:

So the question is, since God knows who will be saved, and nothing can change this, why do we (or should we) evangelize? If God knows someone will be lost for eternity, what’s the point? They will never believe regardless of how much preaching we do.

Open for discussion.

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Isaiah 5:4 "What MORE Could I have done than that which I have already done? Why then did it fail?"

Romans 11:3 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Therefore insofar as I am an apostle of Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 if somehow I may move my own people to jealousy and save some of them.

Gal 4:11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

John 1:11 "He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not"

Matt 23:37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

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your question amounts to "why all the complex interplay of choice and appeal and free-will... if God knows the end point"? God "could" just settle for "robot world" I suppose.

God knows the choice but does not design/force/cause it. He "draws ALL mankind" John 12:32 with supernatural drawing that enables choice... but does not force choice. The way we would know the future with 100% accuracy is robot-world brain-zapping. The way God knows it is by seeing the future.

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It is like saying "why should I study to be an engineer if God already knows who will graduate"?
Why should we "treat people in the E.R. if God already knows who will live and who will die"?
Why stay awake while I am driving my car - if God already knows if I will reach my destination safely?

It is hard to 'be God' -- why try? Better to "be humans" and God already tells us what our job is as humans: 2 Cor 5 "we BEG you on behalf of Christ - be reconciled"

Hammster said:

I am posting this in General Theology because we agree that God’s knowledge of all events, past and future, is inexhaustible. Nothing that has come to pass, or will come to pass, is outside of His innate knowledge.

With that said, there is not a single person whose final disposition is unknown to God. He knows all who will be saved, and all who will not be saved. Since He knows this, nothing can change these facts.

So the question is, since God knows who will be saved, and nothing can change this, why do we (or should we) evangelize? If God knows someone will be lost for eternity, what’s the point? They will never believe regardless of how much preaching we do.

Open for discussion.

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Well many of the people whom God has foreseen who will repent and be saved may have resulted from evangelism. If they had not heard the gospel then they would’ve been incapable of repentance and receiving salvation.

Hammster said:

It didn’t imply predestination at all. It assumes that all of us agree that God knows who will and will not be saved because He’s omniscient. It’s open as to how He knows. So I can answer, as a predestinarian, one way, and a non-predestinarian can answer in another way.

So how about answering the question in the way that aligns with your understanding of God’s omniscience? Either that, or don’t respond at all and move one. Just don’t be disruptive.

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Do not accuse me of bring disruptive again or I will regard that as an abuse of staff privilege and I will make a formal complaint about your conduct.

It's clear to anyone reading our exchange that you will not answer my question about whether you believe in predestination of not and I'm more than content with that.

Hmm said:

Your OP implied predestination even though it did not contain the word.

A good way to check my assumption would be this simple question: Do you believe in predestination? So, do you? A straight Yes or No would be very welcomed. If you answer No I'll abjectly admit I was wrong so how's that?

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Whether or not hammster believes in predestination is irrelevant to the OP. I know for a fact that hammster does believe in predestination and unfortunately he & I don’t see eye to eye the majority of the time but the OP doesn’t actually imply predestination.

BNR32FAN said:

Whether or not hammster believes in predestination is irrelevant to the OP. I know for a fact that hammster does believe in predestination and unfortunately he & I don’t see eye to eye the majority of the time but the OP doesn’t actually imply predestination.

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Well, it did to me which is why I, unsuccessfully, sought clarification.

Hammster said:

So the question is, since God knows who will be saved, and nothing can change this, why do we (or should we) evangelize?

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The means by which God has planned one's salvation could be through our very own evangelistic efforts or support.

Hammster said:

Actually my question is straightforward. Why should we evangelize if you can’t get someone saved if God knows they will never believe?

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Because God is in the business of forging characters, and the process of us reaching out is just as important as the results (or none results for those not saved).
You did come here on earth to learn right? So what good is your time here if you just stand there like a statue doing nothing. Stop whining and go back to work!