Does knock mean hammer like a maniac?

Strong in Him said:

That doesn't mean it's wrong to repeat words, or prayers. Otherwise we couldn't say the Lord's prayer more than about twice - and some people say it every day.
Moreover, I recently read that the language used here is more like a command; so Jesus is saying "every time you pray, say ' Our Father.....'."

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We're told to pray in a like manner, saying it in the exact words as in the text is generally missing the point. Before Jesus said what is called the Lord's prayer, He was asked to teach how to pray.

Every prayer does not consist of these words, but it gives us a sense of how Jesus taught how to pray.

LoricaLady said:

The Lord's Prayer says "Give us this day our daily bread." That is why many people, like myself, say it daily.

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I know; I'm not saying that you shouldn't.
The person I was responding to was talking about "vain repetitions" - my point was that just because you repeat words/prayers regularly, it doesn't mean that it is wrong or pointless.

LoricaLady said:

That's a matter of opinion and all certainly do not agree.

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No, they probably don't.
Maybe they don't realise that he wrote books on apologetics and, I think, even a commentary.

And to be honest, if the person I was responding to doesn't read any of his books, he has no idea what they are about.

Michael Collum said:

We're told to pray in a like manner, saying it in the exact words as in the text is generally missing the point. Before Jesus said what is called the Lord's prayer, He was asked to teach how to pray.

Every prayer does not consist of these words, but it gives us a sense of how Jesus taught how to pray.

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Luke 11:2
"When you pray, say ......."

The point was, though, that repeating something does not itself render it worthless.
One of the Psalms has the constant refrain "his love endures forever", Psalm 136 - does that mean it is worthless?
Are hymns worthless when they have a refrain or repeat certain lines/phrases? Is the Hallelujah chorus worthless - the first 10 words of which are "Hallelujah"?

Mark Quayle said:

I don't say God doesn't speak to us. but that we can't very well understand. He has given his Word, and we use it, and try to understand, and no doubt, do understand some of it, but we also don't understand.

You compare him to an earthly father --he is not.

Our praying is communication with him, specially since we have his spirit in us. I don't by any means claim we don't communicate with him. But he owes us no answer at all, nevermind to answer us on our terms. But he is kind and full of grace, not holding even our self-assumed status, (of existence in and of oneself), against us.

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Put that in a human father terms:
The father speaks to his son because he is kind and full of grace, but owes the child nothing, esp not on the child's terms. The child should be greatful the father helped bring him into the world.

Doesn't sound right to me.

Strong in Him said:

Luke 11:2
"When you pray, say ......."

The point was, though, that repeating something does not itself render it worthless.
One of the Psalms has the constant refrain "his love endures forever", Psalm 136 - does that mean it is worthless?
Are hymns worthless when they have a refrain or repeat certain lines/phrases? Is the Hallelujah chorus worthless - the first 10 words of which are "Hallelujah"?

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I recall it being written somewhere to sing a different song.

There's a good reason for this, getting into a routine is a good way to suck the spirit out of it and make the act of what is called worship into an idol.

Strong in Him said:

No, they probably don't.
Maybe they don't realise that he wrote books on apologetics and, I think, even a commentary.

And to be honest, if the person I was responding to doesn't read any of his books, he has no idea what they are about.

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They do

Michael Collum said:

There's a good reason for this, getting into a routine is a good way to suck the spirit out of it and make the act of what is called worship into an idol.

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That might occasionally be the case for some; it's not true for everyone, and certainly not all the time.
Repeating Scriptures over and over again is a good way of learning them, or so I've found.
The act of doing so can also aid with reflection or meditation. And sometimes during times of grief, sadness or spiritual dryness saying familiar word/prayers can be a great comfort.

Psalm 27 said:

They do

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Well if you've read some of his books, you'll know that he was a Christian and not a pagan.

Strong in Him said:

Well if you've read some of his books, you'll know that he was a Christian and not a pagan.

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Just a snippet of one of his quotes
“Lewis tells us that, “if we take the imagery of Scripture seriously, if we believe that God will one day give us the Morning Star and cause us to put on the splendour of the sun, then we may surmise that both the ancient myths and the modern poetry, so false as history, may be very near the truth as prophecy. At present we are on the outside of the world, the wrong side of the door. We discern the freshness and purity of morning, but they do not make us fresh and pure. We cannot mingle with the splendours we see. But all the leaves of the New Testament are rustling with the rumour that it will not always be so. Some day, God willing, we shall get in.”

James 2:19

Perhaps the reason that Tolkien and Lewis showed pagan sympathy in their stories is due to their affiliation with one Charles Williams who was a member of the highly satanic, Qabalistic "Order of the Golden Dawn." (The "Order of the Golden Dawn" was primarily made up of mystical "Christians" and former followers of Madame Blavatsky the founder of the Theosophical Society that still adhered to Luciferianism.) Williams, along with Tolkien and Lewis, were members of a close knit Oxford reading group known as “The Inklings.” This is almost certainly where Lewis arrived at his extra-biblical ideas concerning the Holy Grail and other mid-evil myths.
(Take a stand ministries)


Charles Williams gathered many followers and disciples during his lifetime. He was, for a period, a member of the Salvator Mundi Temple of the Fellowship of the Rosy Cross. He met fellow Anglican Evelyn Underhill (who was affiliated with a similar group, the Order of the Golden Dawn)
(Wikipedia)


The use of elves, unicorns, witches, magicians – even to attempt to allegorize the story of Christ - are off limits – especially in our day. With the proliferation of the occult and the complete public acceptance of “white and black” magick these themes will prove detrimental to the cause of evangelism and certainly present a double standard.

HOW CAN GOD BLESS US, OUR HOMES AND OUR CHURCHES IF WE PERSIST IN BEING ENTERTAINED BY IMAGES, STORIES, MOVIES OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT REPRESENT THE PAGAN WORLD IN A POSITIVE LIGHT?

...He CAN’T
(take a stand)

Psalm 27 said:

Just a snippet of one of his quotes
“Lewis tells us that, “if we take the imagery of Scripture seriously, if we believe that God will one day give us the Morning Star and cause us to put on the splendour of the sun, then we may surmise that both the ancient myths and the modern poetry, so false as history, may be very near the truth as prophecy. At present we are on the outside of the world, the wrong side of the door. We discern the freshness and purity of morning, but they do not make us fresh and pure. We cannot mingle with the splendours we see. But all the leaves of the New Testament are rustling with the rumour that it will not always be so. Some day, God willing, we shall get in.”

James 2:19

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So?
Is this supposed to "prove" that he wasn't a Christian?

Psalm 27 said:

HOW CAN GOD BLESS US, OUR HOMES AND OUR CHURCHES IF WE PERSIST IN BEING ENTERTAINED BY IMAGES, STORIES, MOVIES OR ANYTHING ELSE THAT REPRESENT THE PAGAN WORLD IN A POSITIVE LIGHT?

...He CAN’T
(take a stand)

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He can't?
God can't bless anyone who has pagan connections or may do things that "represent the pagan world in a positive light"?

God can bless anyone he chooses, and can speak to them/get their attention in may ways - including those things that you would judge to be pagan.
After all, in our society, the days of the week and months of the year are named after pagan gods. Does that mean that God can't bless us on a Sunday because that day was named after the sun god?

Strong in Him said:

He can't?
God can't bless anyone who has pagan connections or may do things that "represent the pagan world in a positive light"?

God can bless anyone he chooses, and can speak to them/get their attention in may ways - including those things that you would judge to be pagan.
After all, in our society, the days of the week and months of the year are named after pagan gods. Does that mean that God can't bless us on a Sunday because that day was named after the sun god?

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of course The Lord can bless anyone He wants to, and He does ‘His mercies are new every morning’ but how can He reach people who are distracted from Him, and/or deceived?

Strong in Him said:

That might occasionally be the case for some; it's not true for everyone, and certainly not all the time.
Repeating Scriptures over and over again is a good way of learning them, or so I've found.
The act of doing so can also aid with reflection or meditation. And sometimes during times of grief, sadness or spiritual dryness saying familiar word/prayers can be a great comfort.

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I recall learning scripture from repetition and application over and over again, and then it became apart of me. If worship is anything core to the faith like the liturgy is for the more ancient traditions - then it must be living and come alive within us.

Psalm 27 said:

of course The Lord can bless anyone He wants to, and He does ‘His mercies are new every morning’ but how can He reach people who are distracted from Him, and/or deceived?

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Are you saying that the Lord God Almighty - the One who made this universe from nothing and created and saved us without our help - is not able to do something?

Michael Collum said:

I recall learning scripture from repetition and application over and over again, and then it became apart of me. If worship is anything core to the faith like the liturgy is for the more ancient traditions - then it must be living and come alive within us.

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Of course.
But if Scripture is not something you have memorised and learnt, how can you call on it in times of temptation, grief, sadness or those times when you feel spiritually dry?
How can you quote in in conversation with non believers if you don't know it?
Saying to either a non believer or the devil, "well Jesus said something about ..... give me 5 minutes and I'll try to find it", is not quite the same as saying "Scripture says ....." and turning to the passage to show them.

Strong in Him said:

Of course.
But if Scripture is not something you have memorised and learnt, how can you call on it in times of temptation, grief, sadness or those times when you feel spiritually dry?
How can you quote in in conversation with non believers if you don't know it?
Saying to either a non believer or the devil, "well Jesus said something about ..... give me 5 minutes and I'll try to find it", is not quite the same as saying "Scripture says ....." and turning to the passage to show them.

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There are a finite number of words in the bible, and an infinite number of songs.

Scripture speaks to the mind, application and songs speaks to the heart.

Apples and oranges.

Some people don't want to hear the gospel, but won't protest if you be the gospel.

Michael Collum said:

There are a finite number of words in the bible, and an infinite number of songs.

Scripture speaks to the mind, application and songs speaks to the heart.

Apples and oranges.

Some people don't want to hear the gospel, but won't protest if you be the gospel.

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What's that got to do with whether or not it is good to learn, and repeat, verses of Scripture, prayers etc?