1) there is not a single example in the NT of God saving a person who rebelled against God and would not obey.
Why did you NOT address the verse I gave you?
Romans 3:10 says that NO MAN will ever "seek God"
or do any good... no, not even ONE. The ONLY people who
ever repent are those God has regenerated. You can ignore
what the Bible says.. but that does not negate the Truth.
Let's
TRY AGAIN to see if you can harmonize what the
BIBLE says into your theories:
------------ from post #117 --------------
Look, the Bible is very clear on this matter.
The
ONLY people who will "
believe" or "
obey" are those
who God has regenerated... based
ONLY on His Good Pleasure
and
NOT on anything they would do... Otherwise
NO MAN
(no, not even one) will ever "
seek God"
or do anything "
good" (like believe or obey).
Repentance (obedience) is always the
RESULT of regeneration
and never the
CAUSE... otherwise you preach a "works gospel"
or a "boaster's gospel" where MEN save themselves.
Rom 3:10-12
As it is written, There is none righteous,
no, not one:
There is none that u
nderstandeth, there is none that
seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way,
they are together become unprofitable;
there is none
that doeth good, no, not one.
The Bible declares (in both the OT and NT) that un-regenerated
men will
NEVER "
seek God" and
NEVER "
doeth good"..
(believe or obey)
No, not even one of them.
(1) That means you have to HARMONIZE your "theory"
to not contradict this Bible Truth before you can even pretend
to understand the Gospel of the Bible.
2)
Rom 5:1-----------faith>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justifies
James 2:24-------works>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>justify
Of course you understand nothing.
WHERE does that "
faith" come from?
It is a
GIFT of God to who He "
chooses" or "
elects"
the Bible
NEVER teaches that "
faith" is produced by men who
are
NOT regenerated.... and you embarrass yourself pretending
otherwise.
Secondly... in YOUR #2 why did you
IGNORE everything
in MY #2... you cannot be taken seriously when you reject
or intentionally
IGNORE the Scriptures that contradict your theory.
Let's
TRY AGAIN to see if you can harmonize what the
Bible says into your theories:
------- from post #117 -------------------
Moreover,
JESUS explained that
NO MAN can come to Him
unless the Father first "
draw them" [
John 6:44] and
ALL MEN
the Father draws "
shall come" to Him [
John 6:37] and He will
lose
NONE of them.
You pretend that
SOME MEN can come,
when
JESUS says that
NO MAN can come.
Either you are wrong... or Jesus is a
LIAR.
(2) That means you have to HARMONIZE your "theory"
to not contradict this Bible Truth before you can even pretend
to understand the Gospel of the Bible.
Calvinsts cannot get around this simple fact...
Why in the world are you talking about Calvin?
I never said a word about Calvin... I gave you SCRIPTURES
that were written 1500 years before Calvin was born. You are
simply constructing a STRAWMAN to knock down. That shows
that you cannot understand the ISSUE being discussed or you
do understand and do not have the intellectual honesty of
addressing the ISSUE, and must DEFLECT to creating
a STRAWMAN to argue. Get real.
3)
regeneration, the new birth, occurs when one is water baptized (born of water John 3:5).
Why, in YOUR #3 do you completely IGNORE what was written
in MY #3... obviously because it contradicts your theories and
you cannot DEAL WITH SCRIPTURE. How can you expect me
to ever take you seriously when you IGNORE what I say and
DEFLECT to a different issue?
BTW... water baptism never saved anybody... it was just an
outward "sign" of the baptism of the Holy Spirit (within) when
a man is regenerated or "washed" of his sins... it can save men
no more than circumcision saves men. You preach a "works gospel"
which is just heresy. Which is obviously wrong since MOST MEN
who receive water baptism are not saved "wheat" in the church
but unsaved "tares" in the church - or depart from the church.
Let's TRY AGAIN to see if you can provide a RESPONSE to
MY #3 in YOUR #3... instead of deflecting to a "works gospel"
heresy which is easily proven wrong in both Scripture and history.
--------------- from post #117 ------------------
You pretend that
SOME MEN who are given will
NOT COME...
when
JESUS says
ALL MEN given to Him
SHALL COME.
Either you are wrong... or Jesus was just a
LIAR.
(3) That means you have to HARMONIZE your "theory"
to not contradict this Bible Truth before you can even pretend
to understand the Gospel of the Bible.
3)
you misunderstand Paul in Rom 3 when Paul said none do good, none seek God. How do you reconcile none seek God when there were those who sought after God...
First of all (as I already explained to you) Paul was quoting from
the OT (that is what it means to say "
it is written"). Secondly,
the Gospel of the Bible is that
NO MAN will "
seek God" or do
any good (like repent or obey) until
AFTER regeneration.
If you are just going to REJECT or IGNORE the SCRIPTURES below,
then do not even PRETEND that you are preaching the Gospel of
the Bible. Just admit you are preaching YOUR OWN "gospel".
Rom 3:10-12
As it is written, There is
none righteous, no, not one:
There is
none that understandeth, there is
none that
seeketh after God. They are
all gone out of the way,
they are together become unprofitable; there is
none
that doeth good,
no, not one.
Psa 14:2-3
The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men,
to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
They are
all gone aside, they are
all together become filthy:
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Psa 53:2-3
God looked down from heaven upon the children of men,
to see if there were any that did understand,
that did seek God.
Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4)
I do not see where you proved me wrong when I said God foresaw something in Jacob that He did not in Esau....
Then you need to READ the text again carefully.
It is not ME that "proves you wrong"... it is SCRIPTURE that
contradicts your theory and, therefore, "proves you wrong".
Let's
TRY AGAIN to address my response in #4
--------- from post #117 -----------
You pretend
SOME MEN God "
draws" can be
LOST...
when JESUS says
NONE of them can ever be
LOST
Either you are wrong... or Jesus is a
LIAR.
(4) That means you have to HARMONIZE your "theory"
to not contradict this Bible Truth before you can even pretend
to understand the Gospel of the Bible.
5)
John 3:18 Jesus said those who will not obey by believing will not be saved. Not beleiving is a choice man makes for himself...
First, we have already
COVERED your heresy in
#1 AND #2
AND #3 AND #4... harmonize your theories with those points
BEFORE you can be taken seriously and
BEFORE you move on
to other theories that
BUILD upon your previous heresy.
Secondly, you did not even
ADDRESS my words in#5
(in YOUR #5)...
LETS TRY AGAIN. Here was MY comment
in #5.
------- from post #117 -----------
No, we do not see that at all... you
ADDED your "interpretation"
to the Text. The Text is clear when it reveals that God had no mercy
upon Pharaoh because he was
CREATED to be hardened and
NOT OBEY in order to show the power of God.
Rom 9:17
For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even
for this same purpose
have I raised thee up,
that I might shew my power in thee,
and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore
hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
You say God did not have mercy on Pharaoh because he chose
to not obey... when
GOD SAYS he
CREATED Pharaoh to be
HARDENED, to show His Great Power and to demonstrate
that He shows
MERCY on who
HE CHOOSES and
He
HARDENS whom
HE DECIDES to
HARDEN.
(5) That means you have to HARMONIZE your "theory"
to not contradict this Bible Truth before you can even pretend
to understand the Gospel of the Bible.
6)
the Bible does teach "synergism" for it clearly shows man has a role in his own salvation:
-save yourselves Acts 2:40
-save thyself 1 Timothy 4:16
-cleanse ourselves 2 Corinthians 7:1
-keep yourselves in the love of God Jude 1:21
-you purified your soul 1 Peter 1:22
First, the Bible ONLY teaches synergism when you REJECT
and IGNORE all
RELATED verses that teach men
CANNOT
"save themselves"... they cannot even "
seek God" before
they are regenerated
(see #1 and #2 and #3 and #4 above)
The
FIRST RULE in Bible study is that you cannot even know the
CONTEXT of a verse (all the verses you cited above) unless/until
you
HARMONIZE those verses with
ALL RELATED Scripture.
So... for an example to help you "see".
The Bible COMMANDS ALL MEN to "
repent". However, the Bible
also teaches that
NO MAN can "
repent" until
AFTER they are
regenerated. The Gospel is NONSENSE to "
natural men"
who are born spiritually
DEAD and slaves to Satan.
Scripture is very clear... not only can "
natural men" not repent,
they cannot even "
seek God". Why do you REJECT and IGNORE
Scriptures (that contradict your heresy)?
You have decided to accept the verses you
LIKE and reject
or intentionally ignore the verses you do not
LIKE because
they contradict your theory. Therefore, you are NOT following
the Gospel of the Bible (which includes ALL Scripture) you are
only designing your OWN "gospel" (heresy) based on
SELECTED
verses.
Secondly... once again you have decided to IGNORE my comments
and the SCRIPTURE I provided in #6... so
LETS TRY THIS AGAIN,
see if you can
HARMONIZE the Scriptures in my #6 into your
"theories"... because, if you cannot (and you cannot) then
you have already
PROVEN your theories are not Biblical
and, therefore, heresy.
--------------- from post # 177 ------------
You teach it is
MAN that decides to
OBEY God but God insists
that HE is the one who "
chooses" or "
elects"
WHO will receive
His mercy... so that they
CAN believe and obey. And whoever
He does
NOT "
elect" can
NEVER believe or obey.
Again, the Bible teaches that (real) repentance is the
RESULT
of regeneration... and never the
CAUSE.
Rom 9:15
For he saith to Moses,
I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
(6) That means you have to HARMONIZE your "theory"
to not contradict this Bible Truth before you can even pretend
to understand the Gospel of the Bible.
These are just some examples of man "saving himself" thereby having a role in his own salvation.
You are hilarious.
You cannot show verses of men
AFTER regeneration and then
PRETEND it applies to men
BEFORE regeneration. You only
embarrass yourself when you do this. I wonder why
you cannot
SEE that reality?
Remember,
JESUS explained that some men were
NEVER MEANT
to "
perceive" or "
understand" the Gospel or "
be converted" or
to "
have their sins forgiven"... those men (like you) cannot
SEE
what the Gospel teaches. [Mark 4:12]
7)
Romans 9:17 "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."
This verse says
NOTHING AT ALL about God raising Pharaoh up to make Pharaoh disobey God against his will. Calvinists read that idea into the verse. It says God raised Pharaoh up to:
1) shew My power in thee and
2) My name might be declared throughout all the earth.
First... do you not realize how ridiculous you are when you
actually QUOTE Romans 9 which says "Even for this purpose
have I raised thee up"... and then you say the verse says
NOTHING AT ALL about God raising Pharaoh up?
How embarrassing.
Second... do you not realize how ridiculous you are when you
actually QUOTE Romans 9 which says "that I might shew
MY POWER in thee, and that MY NAME be declared throughout
the land"... and then you say the verse says NOTHING AT ALL
about God's name being declared throughout the land.
How embarrassing.
Thirdly, why do you say "Calvinists read that idea into the verse"
when (a)
we are not even talking about Calvinists... that is just
your STRAWMAN. We are talking about
SCRIPTURE and (b) the
Scripture could not be more clear, God did "
raise Pharaoh up"
to show HIS POWER (by overcoming Pharaoh) and so HIS NAME
"
would be declared throughout the land" (for destroying all
of Pharaoh's plans)
Finally... why does your #7 not even address ANYTHING included
in MY #7. LETS TRY THIS AGAIN. Here is my #7, address what
I have written instead of DEFLECTING to a different subject.
------------- from post #117 -------------
You teach that God chose Jacob and not Esau based on
KNOWING
what (good works) they would do. However
GOD SAYS that the
"
election" of Jacob and not Esau was
NOT BASED ON ANY WORK
they would do... but only on God's own good pleasure.
Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done
any good or evil,
that the purpose of God according to election
might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth.
Notice the words "
purpose of God according to election"...
those
WORDS have a
MEANING which is the exact opposite
of what you teach. If you are teaching the exact opposite of
the Word of God... then you have already
PROVEN that your
theories are not Biblical, and therefore,
just heresy
(7) That means you have to HARMONIZE your "theory"
to not contradict this Bible Truth before you can even pretend
to understand the Gospel of the Bible.
continued below