Why I think evil is necessary

Ken-1122

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Because there is no other way.
Of course there is. Your experiences and maturity can be limited to good deeds. We don’t need to do evil in order to know good, we don’t need to taste bitter to enjoy sweet, we don’t need to experience poverty to know riches, we don’t need to feel pain in order to enjoy pleasure, we don’t need to be immoral, in order to know morality, we don’t need to do evil in order to know good.
 
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Moral Orel

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Because there is no other way.
Allow me to rephrase Ken's question because I'm curious if you have the same answer.

If God can do anything and does not like evil, why would He purposely create mankind in a way that requires He resorts to evil in order for Him to mature and become whole?
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Allow me to rephrase Ken's question because I'm curious if you have the same answer.

If God can do anything and does not like evil, why would He purposely create mankind in a way that requires He resorts to evil in order for Him to mature and become whole?

If he wanted to allow people to freely choose him then doing it the way he did allows for that.
 
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Moral Orel

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If he wanted to allow people to freely choose him then doing it the way he did allows for that.
Well that didn't answer my question at all. Did you notice the key difference between Ken's and my phrasing?
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Well that didn't answer my question at all. Did you notice the key difference between Ken's and my phrasing?

The result of disobeying God is evil. So thats why evil resulted from mankind's disobedience.
 
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Moral Orel

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The result of disobeying God is evil. So thats why evil resulted from mankind's disobedience.
You didn't notice the difference. Is God "whole"? Did God become "whole" by "maturing"?
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Doing it without evil influence allows people to freely choose also. Again; you don't need to do evil to know good

If the result of our action is evil what else would you expect it to be?
 
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Moral Orel

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Is God whole? Yes. Did God become whole by maturing? I would think so.
That's interesting. Most Christians think God is timeless and has always been perfectly good. So God has done evil in the past?
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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Most Christians think God is timeless and has always been perfectly good. So God has done evil in the past?

I don't think God could be God and do evil. I think hes good because he's God and hes God because he's good. Just like Jesus never did evil on earth yet I believe he matured somewhat from his experience on earth compared to having never come. If you aren't maturing even a little bit then what is the point of life experience?
 
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Ken-1122

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If the result of our action is evil what else would you expect it to be?
That's not what I said. I'm saying if our actions are not evil, that still will not prevent us from maturing. IOW if Jesus can mature without committing an evil act, evil actions are not necessary
 
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Moral Orel

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I don't think God could be God and do evil. I think hes good because he's God and hes God because he's good. Just like Jesus never did evil on earth yet I believe he matured somewhat from his experience on earth compared to having never come. If you aren't maturing even a little bit then what is the point of life experience?
I dunno. Maybe the point of life experience to enjoy it? And sure, morality wise there are better ways to enjoy life than others.

So why hasn't God or Jesus ever done anything evil? You said that God became whole by maturing, so at some point God was not mature, but yet He still couldn't do evil.
 
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Ken-1122

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I don't think God could be God and do evil. I think hes good because he's God and hes God because he's good. Just like Jesus never did evil on earth yet I believe he matured somewhat from his experience on earth compared to having never come.
So you've refuted your claim that evil acts are necessary to mature.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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So you've refuted your claim that evil acts are necessary to mature.

Some people say why didn't God just create us as all good and that way we would never have evil and thats actually not a bad argument. It seems clear to me now that we wouldn't need evil for anything at all even to mature if we were created all good. So that seems to be a valid point. I can't argue against that. I could also see an atheist with that viewpoint using it as a reason for why they believe God doesn't exist and it's not a bad argument against the existence of God because God definitely could've found a way being all powerful to give us everything that is good without the evil.
 
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Larniavc

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Without evil what need is there in going out of your way to do more than good?
Isn’t that what Heaven is supposed to be like? So I’m not sure your idea holds water.
 
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ImAllLikeOkWaitWat

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So why hasn't God or Jesus ever done anything evil? You said that God became whole by maturing, so at some point God was not mature, but yet He still couldn't do evil.

If I said God became whole by maturing then I must've not finished my thought process. We know God is whole and we know he is mature. If he's not whole and mature then he's not God. I'd say he doesn't do evil because evil is not in his nature.
 
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Moral Orel

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If I said God became whole by maturing then I must've not finished my thought process. We know God is whole and we know he is mature. If he's not whole and mature then he's not God. I'd say he doesn't do evil because evil is not in his nature.
Okay, so now we're back in line with what most Christians say. God didn't need to mature to become whole, so maturing isn't a requirement for being whole. One can just be whole and be mature, yes?
 
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