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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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If you would take some advice, rather than trying to win debates here, it would be better for you not to demand of others what you fail to achieve in your own life. Some soul searching would be good

Again, we build our faith on God's Word and not looking to any person's life. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. If you want to talk about people's lives and how all of mankind sins, then I would suggest a social media platform would be better for you. There are plenty of sinful people who will agree with you. I am here to talk about God's Word, and in living for the Lord (according to the Holy Bible). If you are not on board with that, then go fish elsewhere.
 
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andrew1smith

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Again, we build our faith on God's Word and not looking to any person's life. Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God. If you want to talk about people's lives and how all of mankind sins, then I would suggest a social media platform would be better for you. There are plenty of sinful people who will agree with you. I am here to talk about God's Word, and in living for the Lord (according to the Holy Bible). If you are not on board with that, then go fish elsewhere.
You are here to demand of others what you do not even try and demand of yourself
 
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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Theres too many people on these types of websites who demand of others what they do not try and follow in their own lives, all they want to do is win an argument. Its a fleshy thing. Be careful as what your true god is

The problem is that many in Christianity today appear to be of the mindset of disbobedience to God rather than obedience. Please show me in God's Word that disobedience is the way of the New Covenant (i.e. the New Testament).
 
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You are here to demand of others what you do not even try and demand of yourself

And you are God to know my heart, mind, thoughts, and life?
Again, deal with the verses I have put forth in this thread so far.
 
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Please tell me if you fully obey the entire word of the bible, if you believe my assumption to be wrong that you don't

Most in your camp are unaware that there are non-mortal sins, and mortal sins (See: Matthew 5:22, and 1 John 5:16-17). So the idea of entire perfect obedience in every way to God's Word must be attained so as to be saved is simply wrong thinking. But I can see how many today think this way as an excuse to disobey God. Also, Sanctification is progressive (2 Corinthians 7:1) (1 John 3:3). While we are told to “sin not,” if believers happen to stumble into sin on rare occasion, they do have an advocate that they can go to in order to confess of their sins in order to be forgiven of their sin (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). But this is with the goal of overcoming their mortal sin in this life.

“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.” (1 John 3:3).

“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Do you even know that we are in a race?

“Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize?” (1 Corinthians 9:24).

What do you think the prize is?

It's Jesus Christ.

In this race, Paul did not think he could commit mortal sin and still be saved.

“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” (1 Corinthians 9:27).
 
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andrew1smith

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Most in your camp are unaware that there are non-mortal sins, and mortal sins (See: Matthew 5:22, and 1 John 5:16-17). So the idea of entire perfect obedience in every way to God's Word must be attained so as to be saved is simply wrong thinking. But I can see how many today think this way as an excuse to disobey God. Also, Sanctification is progressive (2 Corinthians 7:1) (1 John 3:3). While we are told to “sin not,” if believers happen to stumble into sin on rare occasion, they do have an advocate that they can go to in order to confess of their sins in order to be forgiven of their sin (1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). But this is with the goal of overcoming their mortal sin in this life.

“And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.” (1 John 3:3).

“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

Do you even know that we are in a race?

“Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize?” (1 Corinthians 9:24).

What do you think the prize is?

It's Jesus Christ.

In this race, Paul did not think he could commit mortal sin and still be saved.

“But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.” (1 Corinthians 9:27).
I have no interest debating with anyone who simply reels off partial verses of scripture, insists others follow them if they want to attain to eternal life, while they themselves do not even try to follow what they demand of others. It is not about winnig an argument to me by randomly quoting the literal letter no one fully lives up to, but something more worthwhile than that
 
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I have no interest debating with anyone who simply reels off partial verses of scripture, insists others follow them

First, I actually quoted entire verses and not just partial ones. If you believe I have taken anything out of context, then by all means, prove your case with the Bible.
Second, I did not insist anyone to follow me, but I am merely pointing them to follow Jesus and His Holy Word (the Bible).
Three, I believe the real deep down reason why you are not debating with me on the verses I brought forth that refutes a sin and still be saved belief is because you and nobody else technically is capable of doing so (Because the Bible does not teach that we can abide in mortal sin and still be saved).

You said:
if they want to attain to eternal life,

We have to abide in the person of Jesus Christ in order to have eternal life.

For 1 John 5:12 says,

“He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.” (1 John 5:12).
Christ alone posseses immortality according to 1 Timothy 6:16. 1 John 5:12 says that he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life. This life is eternal life. So a person needs to abide in the Son in order to have eternal life. Well, that is you believe these verses in Scripture. Many in the sin and still be saved camp will just ignore them or they will try to change them because they don't like them. So how can we have an assurance that we know Jesus and thereby have access to eternal life? 1 John 2:3 says, “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.” Keeping God's commands involves acting on being saved by His grace (1 John 3:23), which then follows in entering the Sanctification Process of putting away sin, doing good works, and living holy by God's power. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says, “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” So we are chosen to salvation by two things and not just one. We are chosen to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief in the truth. We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

Listen carefully to what the Word says.

“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).​

You said:
while they themselves do not even try to follow what they demand of others.

You are alluding to the words of Jesus:

“For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.” (Matthew 23:4).​

But what is the context? Was Jesus trying to make a point here about how the Pharisees were wrong for trying to obey God's laws? Was that the point Jesus was making? Surely not.

Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees because they ignored the weightiers matters of the Law.

“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” (Matthew 23:23).​

“But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.” (Luke 11:42).​

In other words, Jesus had a problem with the Pharisees because they ignored God's laws, and because they demanded of others what they themselves would never do. So the point Jesus was trying to make was one that was not of how man is incapable of obeying God's commands. Jesus said in John 14:15 that if you love me, keep my commandments. Jesus said in John 15:10 that if you keep my commandments you will abide in His love.

You said:
It is not about winnig an argument to me

I am just a messenger of God's Word. Sometimes I know I cannot reach other self professing believers or Christians with what God's Word says. Some of these believers appear to win the argument by leaving large walls of text, and or not really addressing what you said. Many times I have let them continue on because there is no way to respond to insanely large walls of text that goes on for pages and pages, and then some. Other times, they just appear to not listen to what you said with God's Word, and they just bring in their own slanted view of God's Word. So I leave them be. Surely I did not win an argument with them, and I am fine with that. Why? Well, I know God's Word will not return void. Somebody out there will receive His Word if I put it forth. So no. I am not here to win arguments alone. Only God can truly convince a person of the truth of what His Word says. I am only a messenger of His Word. Alone, I am nothing, and Christ Jesus is everything.

You said:
by randomly quoting the literal letter no one fully lives up to, but something more worthwhile than that

Many believers today misinterpret 2 Corinthians 3:6.

It says,

“Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Corinthians 3:6).​

Now, this verse is not saying that we are to interpret Scripture in a literal way over some some overly spiritualistic interpretation (i.e. read the Bible as metaphor when it does not align with what you like to hear). The letter that kills is in reference to the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel). The context is referring to the two different ways each of these covenants began and it's not talking about the letter in general like the literal commands of Jesus or His followers.

The Old Covenant Law of Moses BEGAN with the letter with the two tablets of stone, and the written Torah.

The New Covenant BEGAN with the audible words of Jesus Christ, and His apostles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and not by the letter like with the Law of Moses. That is the point Paul was making. We are now under a New Covenant (Which means we are to serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6). The oldness of the letter is the Torah or the Old Testament Law of Moses. We are not to serve by looking to the Law of Moses. Yes, all believers (who are truly faithful) are guided by the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit is not going to guide us into any wrong doing, but the Spirit is going to guide us to obey what the New Testament says. The Spirit is not going to guide us into obeying the whole of the Law of Moses. The Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more.

The context of 2 Corinthians 7:6 shows the differences of the two covenants.

2 Corinthians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 3:7, 2 Corinthians 3:12-17 says,

[3] “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [12] Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: [13] And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: [14] But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. [15] But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. [16] Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. [17] Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”​

The context is not saying for us to look at Scripture in a non-literal way and if you do it will bring death. The point Paul was making is that the Old Law is no more. For in the Old Law it did bring death because if somebody disobeyed God's commands in the Old Testament, you could be stoned and or killed physically by God's people (the Israelites). This does not mean we can turn God's grace into a license for immorality by saying that Jesus paid for all future sin or by just believing in Jesus alone for salvation. This is not to oversimplify God's commands in to loving God and others in a way that we want when God has given us more than just the two greatest commands. In fact, obeying the 400 approximate commands in the New Testament is a partiall fulfillment of the 1st greatest commandment. For to love God with all your heart is to keep His commandments. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Just painting a broad brush stroke of loving God and your neighbor without truly seeking to obey all of what God says in His Word is to simply follow our own way of thinking in not in what God's Word says.
 
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Bro.T

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No point in continuing this conversation. Lets agree to disagree. You are quoting Scriptures out of context to support your odd theory. I believe the Bible teaches that being born again is to be born again spiritually, and to have a new heart with new desires by the working of the Holy Spirit. What I stated in post #79 (with Scripture) to prove this point stands.

Those scriptures you post does support those thing, it's just not called born again. Even in 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Which we just read in 1 Corinthians 15, 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

It a change in the Body not in the mind. Scriptures I'm quoting are perfectly in line, all in the same precept. Read the Bible for yourself, from Genesis to Revelation, it's one big book, telling the same story in different ways. Theres more to post on this topic, this the last one. Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. That's Born again.
 
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Bro.T

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We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I just post what the book say, I don't get into the agree or disagree thing, because I didn't write the Bible. That's between you and God, like Paul says in Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
 
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Bro.T

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God's Holy Days: "And the LORD spake unto Moses saying, "Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts." Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S Passover. This time is around the real new year. The new year is around the time of the Lord's passover.

And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the Sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven Sabbaths shall be complete: Even unto the morrow after the seventh Sabbath shall ye numberfifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute forever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

And the LORD spake unto Moses saying, "Speak unto the children of Israel saying, in the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a Sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation." Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a Day of Atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute forever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. It shall be unto you a Sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.

And the LORD spake unto Moses saying, "Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, the fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD." On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein. These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day.” (Leviticus 23:1-7, 9-11, 15-16, 21, & 23-37)

Numbers 15:16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you
 
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Bro.T

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Women not permitted to teach in the Pulpit:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety". (1Timothy 2:11-15) "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (1Corinthians 14:33-35)
 
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Aussie Pete

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Well, it's not about me but it is about what the Scriptures say. I do not believe Sinless Perfection is a salvation issue because it deals with going the extra mile in putting away non-mortal sins. For an example of a non-mortal vs. a mortal sin, just check out Matthew 5:22 below (by the words of our Lord Jesus Christ).

“But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.” (Matthew 5:22).​

The words highlighted in blue above are non-mortal sins, and the words highlighted in red is a mortal sin.

For there is a sin unto death, and a sin not unto death (See: 1 John 5:16-17).

As for your your mention of words that say, “exceed the righteousness”:

Jesus says,

“For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:20).​

This is a problem in regards to the popular view in Christianity in regards to salvation. In context, Jesus was not saying all this so as to make a point that we cannot obey God. Neither was Jesus teaching that we can commit mortal sin and still be saved by having a belief alone in Him as the Savior. The whole sermon on the mount deals with how we must put away certain sins and if not, these sins can bring condemnation to us, and destroy our souls (See: Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62). For to love God and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (See: Luke 10:25-28).



You are reading James 3:2 from a corrupt Modern Translation (Note: Most Modern Translations stem from the Alexandrian Egyptian manuscripts. This is no surprise because Modern Translations remove 1 John 5:7, which is the one and only verse that point blank teaches the Trinity clearly and yet Alexandira Egypt is where Arianism originates (which just so happens to coincidentally removes 1 John 5:7 thereby supporting Arianism). Also, the Bible predominantly speaks negatively of Egypt, as well).

James 3:2 in the King James says,

“For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.” (James 3:2) (KJB).​

Also, James 3:2 and neither the context supports that we can stumble into sin and still claim we are born again. In fact, James talks about the necessity of obedience to God's Word as a part of eternal life or salvation (See: James 1:12, and James 1:21). Granted, I believe being born again is a past experience, but just because a person has been born again spiritually at one point in their life does not mean that they cannot be deceived by the deceitfulness of sin and harden their heart and depart from the living God (See: Hebrews 3:12-14). Those who are born again are characterized by doing righteousness.

“If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” (1 John 2:29).​

In fact, we are able to know the difference between the children of God, vs. the children of the devil on whether or not they do righteousness and love their brother.

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.” (1 John 3:10).
Is one doing righteousness if they justify sin?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (1 John 3:8).

“For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.” (John 3:20).
Does doing righteousness guarantee a believer is saved if they also commit sin or iniquity?

Jesus says,

“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22-23).​

So Jesus is telling certain believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. Iniquity is sin.

Also, please pay close attention to these words by our Lord, as well (in the same passage).

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22-23).​

I don't know about you, but when Jesus says that MANY will say to me that they did wonderful works in His name, He is referring to the majority of believers in Jesus Christ because they did wonderful works in His name. But just doing good works alone was not enough because these believers also justified sin with the thinking they would be saved because Jesus said to depart from Him because He did not know them on the account that they worked iniquity (i.e. sin or lawlessness).

Most Christians today believe they can sin and still be saved. Jesus points them out by saying, ”MANY will say unto me...” (Matthew 7:22), and says for them to depart from Him because they work iniquity (Matthew 7:23).

Now, some in the sin and still be saved camp will attempt to try and twist our Lord's words in Matthew 7:23. However, the context will refute them every time. Matthew 7:26-27 (the context) basically says that everyone who does not do what Jesus says is like a fool who built His house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. This is a picture of the destruction of anyone (believer or not) who will be destroyed if they justify sin.



And how does one fall? By being deceived by the deceitfulness of sin and hardening their heart by sin and thereby departing from the living God (Hebrews 3:12-14). Both Hebrews 3 and the beginning of 1 Corinthians 10 talks about those Israelites who fell in the wilderness. Thus the warnings by Paul against sin 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, and 1 Corinthians 10:6-10. The Israelites who fell away in the wilderness obviously fell away on the account of their justifying sin instead of seeking forgiveness with the Lord and then by a changed born again heart, they could then obey Him. Just read 1 Corinthians 10:6-11. There is no mention here about how the Israelites needed to trust in God alone and the future Messiah's finished work while they justified sin. That would be turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).
The Israelites fell away because of unbelief, not a particular sin. (Hebrews 3). I had a long conversation with a born again Christian who had been treated badly by his church. He left, and ended up marrying an unbeliever. Bad move and contrary to God's word. Christians do not become unborn again. They can and do sin and lose fellowship with God. If they persist, then they may lose a lot more. God respects man's will and may well leave the one sinning to the lot that they have chosen. Self inflicted wounds are often the most painful. Another Christian I know is about to lose half his home. He married a fake "believer". I'm not a prophet, but I knew them both and I was sure what would happen. About 3 years, it's over and the property settlement is about to start.

The real test of whether or not a person is born again is two fold. Do they confess Christ? Do they love the brethren? People may struggle with sin for a long time, mostly due to ignorance, lack of good teaching and incompetent leadership in the church. Real Christians hate sin, even if they are bound by it.
 
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Those scriptures you post does support those thing, it's just not called born again. Even in 1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Which we just read in 1 Corinthians 15, 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

It a change in the Body not in the mind. Scriptures I'm quoting are perfectly in line, all in the same precept. Read the Bible for yourself, from Genesis to Revelation, it's one big book, telling the same story in different ways. Theres more to post on this topic, this the last one. Paul says in Philippians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. That's Born again.

But 1 John 2:29 talks about being born again as a past event, and not a future one.

For it is written:

“If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.” (1 John 2:29).

Also, the very verse you quote (1 Peter 1:23) talks about being born again (past tense) by the incorruptible seed i.e. the receiving of God's communicated Word, which is Scripture) (Note: It would be acting upon His Word in such a way whereby one considers God's Word to be holy and divine, and by receiving the gospel message). So being born again is not a future event, but a past one for believers.
 
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The Israelites fell away because of unbelief, not a particular sin. (Hebrews 3). I had a long conversation with a born again Christian who had been treated badly by his church. He left, and ended up marrying an unbeliever. Bad move and contrary to God's word. Christians do not become unborn again. They can and do sin and lose fellowship with God. If they persist, then they may lose a lot more. God respects man's will and may well leave the one sinning to the lot that they have chosen. Self inflicted wounds are often the most painful. Another Christian I know is about to lose half his home. He married a fake "believer". I'm not a prophet, but I knew them both and I was sure what would happen. About 3 years, it's over and the property settlement is about to start.

The real test of whether or not a person is born again is two fold. Do they confess Christ? Do they love the brethren? People may struggle with sin for a long time, mostly due to ignorance, lack of good teaching and incompetent leadership in the church. Real Christians hate sin, even if they are bound by it.

“...was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?” (Hebrews 3:17).

Sin is merely a lack of faith in God. For when God tells us to do something and we don't do it, then it is a lack of faith in Him. It is sin.

As for your reference that a believer cannot become unborn:

I heard this more times than I care to count. Yes, there is no such analogy or real life example of being unborn, but in real life people who are born can die. In the parable of the prodigal son, when the son had returned home to the father (after his life of sin), his father had said that his son was "dead" and is "alive again" two times. This of course was speaking in spiritual terms. The son was willing to repent to the father and confess his sins to heaven. Clearly this is what a person must do in order to get right with the father if they backslide away from the father into a lifestyle of sin. So you can die spiritually.

We see this elsewhere in Scripture.

"But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth." (1 Timothy 5:6).
This is speaking of widows who are believers.

11 "But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax wanton against Christ, they will marry;
12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith."
(1 Timothy 5:11-12).​

So these widows have damnation because they cast off their first faith.
These again are believing widows because it says they have a first faith.
They cast this faith aside and they received damnation.

"For some are already turned aside after Satan." (1 Timothy 5:15).

You cannot turn aside after Satan if you are already in his possession.
I cannot depart from Houston airport unless I was in Houston airport.
Do you get the language being used here?
Did you ever read this part of the Bible and notice this?
 
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The Israelites fell away because of unbelief, not a particular sin. (Hebrews 3). I had a long conversation with a born again Christian who had been treated badly by his church. He left, and ended up marrying an unbeliever. Bad move and contrary to God's word. Christians do not become unborn again. They can and do sin and lose fellowship with God. If they persist, then they may lose a lot more. God respects man's will and may well leave the one sinning to the lot that they have chosen. Self inflicted wounds are often the most painful. Another Christian I know is about to lose half his home. He married a fake "believer". I'm not a prophet, but I knew them both and I was sure what would happen. About 3 years, it's over and the property settlement is about to start.

The real test of whether or not a person is born again is two fold. Do they confess Christ? Do they love the brethren? People may struggle with sin for a long time, mostly due to ignorance, lack of good teaching and incompetent leadership in the church. Real Christians hate sin, even if they are bound by it.

A inappropriate content star can hate their sin of inappropriate contentography but if they do not seek to battle in overcoming it, they are simply justifying their sin and they are not going to make it into God's kingdom even if they profess to know Jesus Christ (See: 1 John 2:4). The same can be said for an axe murderer, too. If they hate killing people, and yet they do not stop killing people it does not really matter if they profess that they know Jesus or not (See again: 1 John 2:4). For we know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15). So no. A believer cannot commit mortal sin and still be saved. That would be turning God's grace into a license for immorality as Jude 1:4 warns us about. In fact, there is no point in even believing in Jesus if one holds to the view that they can sin and still be saved. All over your Bible there are many warnings against how sin can destroy our souls.

Matthew 13:41-42 talks about how the Son of Man (JESUS) will send forth His angels and gather out of His kingdom all things that offend and those who work iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

So a believer can be in the Kingdom and yet later cast out at the judgment on account of their sin. For Jesus says that the children of the kingdom are cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 8:12).
 
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The Israelites fell away because of unbelief, not a particular sin. (Hebrews 3). I had a long conversation with a born again Christian who had been treated badly by his church. He left, and ended up marrying an unbeliever. Bad move and contrary to God's word. Christians do not become unborn again. They can and do sin and lose fellowship with God. If they persist, then they may lose a lot more. God respects man's will and may well leave the one sinning to the lot that they have chosen. Self inflicted wounds are often the most painful. Another Christian I know is about to lose half his home. He married a fake "believer". I'm not a prophet, but I knew them both and I was sure what would happen. About 3 years, it's over and the property settlement is about to start.

The real test of whether or not a person is born again is two fold. Do they confess Christ? Do they love the brethren? People may struggle with sin for a long time, mostly due to ignorance, lack of good teaching and incompetent leadership in the church. Real Christians hate sin, even if they are bound by it.

Lets say that a man cheats on his wife. Do you think she would be okay with him cheating on him as long as he just admits that he hates cheating on her? Do you think she would continue to let him to cheat on him as long as he admits that he hates it? No. She would eventually leave him if she was smart and not put up with his unfaithfulness. The same is true with God. For the body of believers is compared to being a bride to Christ. But if you think committing mortal sin is not going to keep a believer out of the kingdom, good luck with believing that. There are many Scriptures that refute this unbiblical teaching. Jesus warned against that just looking upon a woman in lust can cast one to be cast bodily into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). Not forgiving others can lead one to not being forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15). Paul says be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). The very last chapter of our Bible says, “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:14-15).
 
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Isilwen

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I just post what the book say, I don't get into the agree or disagree thing, because I didn't write the Bible. That's between you and God, like Paul says in Philippians 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

No, you have put your own interpretation on it as you are disagreeing with me whether you realize it or not. That is why I will agree to disagree. I am not disagreeing with the Bible, just your interpretation of it.
 
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Women not permitted to teach in the Pulpit:

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety". (1Timothy 2:11-15) "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.” (1Corinthians 14:33-35)

I was wondering why you brought up these passages about women keeping silent in the churches. Was there a particular reason for you doing so? Do you think a particular poster who has been posting recently is a woman? If so, this is not the case. Shockingly, this poster is a male who has a female avatar (Which is something in my view I find to be unbiblical).
 
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I was wondering why you brought up these passages about women keeping silent in the churches. Was there a particular reason for you doing so? Do you think a particular poster who has been posting recently is a woman? If so, this is not the case. Shockingly, this poster is a male who has a female avatar (Which is something in my view I find to be unbiblical).

So because it is a favorite character of mine from the Hobbit movie and use her as my avatar, it's unbiblical? I have never claimed to be a woman. My profile says I am male. An avatar is just that, an avatar. I chose my favorite Elf maiden. I am not pretending to be her.

Now, if no one could not see my profile and read that I am male, you would have a point, but you don't.
 
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