Christianity has nothing to offer you while you're alive

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There is a lot of very STRONG reasons let say to find truth, and a truth so big as God...
This is so big, and we have experienced God in our lives too, when you start getting experiences that line up with that the bible says over and over... anyway Jesus is the way to God.
 
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This is not true. I have found that my life has been enriched, in an emotional sense. Before I was saved I was an emotional train wreck, I was scared of my own shadow. Now I am confident and assured. Besides all of that God has given me a great family, kids, and the like.

God is not against giving Christians things, note what He said to david:

2Sa 12:8 ...I let you rule Israel and Judah, and if that had not been enough, I would have given you much more.

God would have given David much more earthly glory had he not sinned.

Solomon, who is said to be the wisest man to ever live, said over and over:

Ecc 2:24 There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour. This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God.

Ecc 3:13 And also that every man should eat and drink, and enjoy the good of all his labour, it is the gift of God.

Ecc 5:18 Behold that which I have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: for it is his portion.

Ecc 8:15 Then I commended mirth, because a man hath no better thing under the sun, than to eat, and to drink, and to be merry: for that shall abide with him of his labour the days of his life, which God giveth him under the sun.

Basically he commended that the believer enjoy their life, and he stated that the one who fears God will be able to do that. It has been my experience that the Christian life is enjoyable.

Yes the bible tells us that we will suffer rejection, and at times hurt as a Christain, but if you look at people like Job, their suffering was short-lived, and God restored his blessings.

Christians like Paul, chose a road lined will trials, so that the gospel could spread. Christians who dedicate their lives to spreading the gospel like him, can, and will to various degrees suffer persecution.

Yet even in their deep trials God filled Paul with inner spiritual joy.

God has many different ways to be glorified, and most commonly it is through giving his believers a victorious life.

Deu 28:13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

Joh 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

I've gained confidence from converting to atheism. I think it was just the conversion process itself that turned your life around. It may as well have been Scientology that you converted to and it wouldn't have made a difference.
 
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Nihilist Virus

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This is not a reflection on Christianity, at its core. It is a reflection on the poor teaching of the Catholic Church, which requires that priests be celibate. Celibacy is an unbiblical doctrine, although Paul said that it was good to be single because it gave him no earthly attachments, he also stressed that if a believer could not control their desires they should marry. Biblically many of the apostles were married. The problem is many priests enter the ministry for good reasons but find they can not control their passions. This doctrine needs to change. Even the Australian Royal Commission into child abuse as one of its recommendations suggested mandatory celibacy should be changed.

Woah. How bizarre. These priests could easily go a few towns over and find a prostitute. Their celibacy is not what drives child rape. As has been desperately pointed out by Catholic apologists, the priesthood has roughly the same percentage of child predators as the layman population. The problems are that (1) God doesn't weed the child predators out of the priesthood because he either doesn't exist or doesn't care to help, and (2) the Catholic church engaged in a worldwide coverup to protect child predators.
 
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I have a great idea for a product that will greatly benefit society. I'm willing to risk it all to build a big factory and make millions of this product. I'll do it if I can trust my hard work won't get stolen, or the slightest mistake means I won't lose everything.

Most atheists gravitate over to the religion of equality. Under this religion, if my business makes me millions then the government will seek to take away most of my profits in the name of equality. Of course, the government will be happy to let me eat the losses if things don't work out. Social justice warriors will scrutinize every word I say for the slightest mistake, and seek to destroy my business because I can never be forgiven.

In the land of equality, maybe I just won't build my factory. And the people will be worse off for it.

In a Christian country, the people (and government) will not be jealous of my success. I'll get to keep most of my profits. Make a mistake and I can be forgiven. Building here sounds a whole lot better.

Today the countries in the West are living on the fumes of Christianity but for the most part they are not Christian.

Christianity lays a foundation for people to trust and cooperate better. Gradually, this allows people to lift themselves up higher.

This appears to be rambling to me. I cannot make sense of what you're saying.
 
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Reasonable Christian

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I've gained confidence from converting to atheism. I think it was just the conversion process itself that turned your life around. It may as well have been Scientology that you converted to and it wouldn't have made a difference.

You started this thread by asking Christians what Christianity "has to offer." Some Christians have told you what it has done for them. Every time, you've dismissed what they've said with utterly unprovable claims like this, telling them using your amazing mind-reading powers that what they claim to have personally gotten from their faith is, or may be, illusory or otherwise illegitimate. At the same time, you expect us to believe at face value that you've gotten something from atheism. Makes me think you have no interest in people's answers and just started this thread to argue. Say it isn't so.
 
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Fair point.



No, I would need more evidence that the current Vatican is still aiding and abetting pedophilia. As far as I know, the Church has take steps to stop the practice, although there may be more going on behind the scenes that I'm not aware of.



It doesn't. It makes my case a bit harder. You just seemed to be implying that the pedophilia is the worst thing the Church is ever done, and it isn't.



You're a bit more than concerned. You seem pretty obsessive about it, and determined to paint all of Christianity as monstrous because of it. The problem has been identified. Action has been taken. Yes, the action falls far, far short of what you would prefer, and there certainly should have been more condemnation of the Church around the world, but there is currently no indication that the priests' actions will be condoned and shielded to the same extent in the future.



I don't see how it matters how they rose to power. However people rise to power, there are inevitably going to be some bad people in the mix.

I don't see why priests will stop themselves. That would require good priests in the priesthood, and I don't see good men being attracted to that criminal organization. Pope Francis is as evil as they come if you believe Archbishop Viganò. The pedophilia scandal broke at the turn of the millennium and yet we still have all of these new Pennsylvania indictments surfacing a couple years ago.

And after all of this, the bishops huddled together and declared to the world that they had come up with a solution. They will police themselves. I'm sure that will work wonderfully.
 
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That's why everyone in the Body of Christ would have to pitch in for the sake of those to whom such things happen.

There is no presumption in the New Testament that the universe would suddenly become a rose garden for Christians; there is a presumption that Christians would support other Christians in times of loss and shortage.

That sounds like socialism. Evangelicals are mostly Trump supporters and are agaisnt socialism because Trump says it's bad, even though Trump wants to give us all $2000. I can't fully comprehend MAGA "logic" but they won't go for what you're saying.
 
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Jesus was homeless, went days without eating, was ridiculed, scorned, trampled upon, whipped ,dragged, stabbed and hung out to die a lonely death. God did not spare Him any of this. Yet He preached a life worth living in righteousness for a reason we as Christians are fully aware. . Blessings.

That does not seem like a life worth living.
 
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In a simple axiom, A charitable person in our society is better than a greedy person.

That sounds like you're saying socialism is better than capitalism. That's a hard sell to most evangelicals because they are the majority of MAGA country.

Hence a pure Love for others is self sacrificing. It's the greedy part of me that dies on the cross with Christ so that The self sacrificial Love that is Christ can live in me.

I think you're saying that you're trying to change from being greedy to being loving. If so, why not just say so?
 
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You started this thread by asking Christians what Christianity "has to offer." Some Christians have told you what it has done for them. Every time, you've dismissed what they've said with utterly unprovable claims like this, telling them using your amazing mind-reading powers that what they claim to have personally gotten from their faith is, or may be, illusory or otherwise illegitimate. At the same time, you expect us to believe at face value that you've gotten something from atheism. Makes me think you have no interest in people's answers and just started this thread to argue. Say it isn't so.

I didn't put atheism on a pedestal. I specifically pointed out that the conversion process itself is uplifting, regardless of the religion converted to. I purposely used a despicable religion as a placeholder to make that point.

So when a Christian says that their life is so much better because of their conversion to Christianity, that might be true but it's got nothing to do with Christianity.

I've only dismissed the claims of one person on this thread because he made a bunch of ridiculous claims.
 
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Reasonable Christian

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I didn't put atheism on a pedestal. I specifically pointed out that the conversion process itself is uplifting, regardless of the religion converted to. I purposely used a despicable religion as a placeholder to make that point.

So when a Christian says that their life is so much better because of their conversion to Christianity, that might be true but it's got nothing to do with Christianity.

I've only dismissed the claims of one person on this thread because he made a bunch of ridiculous claims.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you said your life is better because of your conversion to atheism. Is that just because you converted to something, or does it have to do with atheism itself? And if it's just the conversion process to something that's uplifting, how do you explain that lots of people (Christians, Muslims, atheists, etc.) continue to feel uplifted long after their conversions? Seems to me that continuing to hold what you think (rightly or wrongly) is a true worldview is also continually uplifting.
 
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RDKirk

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That sounds like socialism. Evangelicals are mostly Trump supporters and are agaisnt socialism because Trump says it's bad, even though Trump wants to give us all $2000. I can't fully comprehend MAGA "logic" but they won't go for what you're saying.

Christianity is not their way of life, Christianity is just their gang sign.
 
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Eloy Craft

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Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.
Its right for a spiritual community to receive material goods. As for freedom, the spiritual goods offered increase freedom as the chains of sin fall. Freedom is being able to do what ought to be done.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you said your life is better because of your conversion to atheism.

Correct.

Is that just because you converted to something, or does it have to do with atheism itself?

The conversion is a positive experience, I view atheism as enlightening compared to Christianity, and I view Christianity as a negative and hence its subtraction is a positive.

And if it's just the conversion process to something that's uplifting, how do you explain that lots of people (Christians, Muslims, atheists, etc.) continue to feel uplifted long after their conversions?

Practicing the religion/lack of belief constitutes reliving the conversion process.

Seems to me that continuing to hold what you think (rightly or wrongly) is a true worldview is also continually uplifting.

Yes.
 
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That sounds like you're saying socialism is better than capitalism. That's a hard sell to most evangelicals because they are the majority of MAGA country.
The battle is about what Truth is.



I think you're saying that you're trying to change from being greedy to being loving. If so, why not just say so?
Because I forget that others like yourself don't see a spiritual battle.
 
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RDKirk

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That sounds like you're saying socialism is better than capitalism. That's a hard sell to most evangelicals because they are the majority of MAGA country.



I think you're saying that you're trying to change from being greedy to being loving. If so, why not just say so?

Not socialism but a kind of closed-system communalism. Of course those evangelicals you're talking about will always try to divert the debate from the distribution of resources within the like-minded community of the Church to distribution of resources in the broader structure of the national government to derail the conversation--because they just don't want to do it.

We do know, however, that a communal concept of resource management and distribution is possible within a closed community. Some Christians groups even manage to achieve that to greater and lesser degrees, such as the Amish and Mormons.

Some individual congregations also make a determined stab at it, such one congregation in Georgia in which the congregation set out to pay all the debts of every member so that all members were free to contribute more of their income for the sake of meeting everyone's continuous needs. But getting to that point takes a lot of up-front work to get everyone on board.
 
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The promise of eternal life requires that you die. Materially, Christianity offers you absolutely nothing while you're alive. You are, however, pressured into offering time and money to Christianity.

So what does Christianity offer that is immaterial?

Christianity offers hope that things will be better once you die. I don't need Christianity for this. There are many religions that offer the same thing, often with less strings attached.

Christianity offers philosophy. Jesus was a philosopher. However, Christians are compelled to accept as absolute truth everything that Jesus said. Even when Jesus suggested that we don't need to wash our hands before we eat. It has been well established that this is a bad idea. Therefore, it is best to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus rather than accepting all of them. As an atheist, I pick and choose from religious philosophy all the time. Not only do I not need Christianity to do this, but as a Christian I wouldn't even have the freedom to pick and choose from the sayings of Jesus.

Therefore, Christianity offers nothing materially, and its immaterial offers come at a cost. Christianity restricts your freedoms and wastes your time and money. The little that it does offer can be found elsewhere.

You asked me to go away, then you ask me to prove a point?

This is your original post. My answer based on experience perfectly answers that post and shows your claim is untrue. All you did was call me a liar, an accusation you cannot substantiate.

Suddenly, later you drag accusations against the church of paedophilia to distract that your original claim has been proven to be incorrect because others supported my testimony with Scripture that Jesus said he would do just these things.

You are being dishonest and have not stuck to your original post.
 
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Woah. How bizarre. These priests could easily go a few towns over and find a prostitute. Their celibacy is not what drives child rape. As has been desperately pointed out by Catholic apologists, the priesthood has roughly the same percentage of child predators as the layman population. The problems are that (1) God doesn't weed the child predators out of the priesthood because he either doesn't exist or doesn't care to help, and (2) the Catholic church engaged in a worldwide coverup to protect child predators.

I had a look at the stats, and it is not quite as clear cut. The numbers are not equal.

  • 597 or 32 percent were religious brothers,
  • 572 or 30 percent were priests,
  • 543 or 29 percent were lay people,
  • 96 or 5 percent were religious sisters,
ALthough the number of priests and laypeople is approximately equal. They are not taking into account religious brothers, who are said to:

Within the Roman Catholic Church, the titles sister and brother are given to members of religious communities. Members take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience and devote their lives to God.

So essentially 62% of offenders had taken a vow of chastity.

There may be other issues at play, in terms of cover-ups etc like you said. But to me the issue of forced celibacy is a big one. Being forced to not have sex, would put a lot of pressure on people.
 
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I had a look at the stats, and it is not quite as clear cut. The numbers are not equal.

  • 597 or 32 percent were religious brothers,
  • 572 or 30 percent were priests,
  • 543 or 29 percent were lay people,
  • 96 or 5 percent were religious sisters,
ALthough the number of priests and laypeople is approximately equal. They are not taking into account religious brothers, who are said to:

Within the Roman Catholic Church, the titles sister and brother are given to members of religious communities. Members take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience and devote their lives to God.

So essentially 62% of offenders had taken a vow of chastity.

There may be other issues at play, in terms of cover-ups etc like you said. But to me the issue of forced celibacy is a big one. Being forced to not have sex, would put a lot of pressure on people.

What is your source?
 
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