Am I divorced?

Ashley Amos

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I am not at all concerned with your perceptions. What matters far, far more to me is the will of God expressed to me in His word.
Then don’t manipulate or compromise the word of God to suit your views. It’s pretty clear what the word of God says. We are not to judge God. The Bible is very clear that a wife cannot separate or divorce from her husband Under any circumstances. If you hold a different view to this please provide the scripture in which it is written that a wife can separate from her husband.
 
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aiki

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Then don’t manipulate or compromise the word of God to suit your views. It’s pretty clear what the word of God says. We are not to judge God. The Bible is very clear that a wife cannot separate or divorce from her husband Under any circumstances. If you hold a different view to this please provide the scripture in which it is written that a wife can separate from her husband.

??? I think you'd better take a look at my first post to this thread.
 
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John Helpher

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What I perceive as legalism, ignorance, and hardness of heart on this topic.

There's a lot of room for misunderstanding here. I guess you mean, by hardness of heart, that it is unreasonable to suggest that divorce is immoral?

If that is what you mean, that divorce is okay in some circumstances, I can understand your feeling. For example, a woman falls in love and marries an alcoholic who eventually abuses her. It would be a hard-hearted person indeed who would suggest that she must just put up with that kind of bad decision. I do not think that is reason enough to divorce. It definitely is reason enough to separate, but that is a different issue.

More than that, it has become common for people to believe there is far less reason for divorce than such serious circumstances. These days, people think just "falling out of love", or "falling in love" with some other person is reason enough for divorce. You've got this situation where people regularly stumble this way and that based on whatever emotions they happen to feel from moment to moment.

That is not love. Rather than finding more and more reasons to justify divorce, we need to give people more and more reasons to not get married in the first place. And, if they really, really believe they cannot stay single for God, then they should be heavily educated as to just how fraught with disappointment marriage tends to be. Did you know that in America, a country famous for the promotion of love marriages, they average a 40-50% divorce rate?

Jesus said, "what God has joined together, let no person put apart". He started this thought in reference to Moses allowing people to get divorced. He said Moses only allowed this because he had become tired of dealing with hard-hearted people. Jesus contradicted Moses. Moses was wrong for allowing divorce. Jesus set the record straight.

That is hard for some of us to hear, especially when we've already divorced and set up a life with someone new. But, Jesus is the boss. He really does know what is best for us.
 
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Ashley Amos

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‘Whoever looks on a woman to lust after her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart’

Yeah the scripture is referring to the husband side And in the Bible when it comes to wives a Wife is never permitted to divorce or separate from her husband. The same Word in Greek can explain woman or wife this scripture does not make any sense if it states woman because if a single man wishes to get married at some point in time he’s going to look upon a woman with lust. But at no time can any man look upon another man’s wife with lust in his heart this is what the scripture is stating.

The scripture is not giving grounds for divorce since nowhere does it state that the wife can divorce her husband even if he commits adultery.
 
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Psalm 27

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Yeah the scripture is referring to the husband side And in the Bible when it comes to wives a Wife is never permitted to divorce or separate from her husband. The same Word in Greek can explain woman or wife this scripture does not make any sense if it states woman because if a single man wishes to get married at some point in time he’s going to look upon a woman with lust. But at no time can any man look upon another man’s wife with lust in his heart this is what the scripture is stating.

The scripture is not giving grounds for divorce since nowhere does it state that the wife can divorce her husband even if he commits adultery.
I was making the point that we’ve all committed adultery at some time in our lives.
 
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Ashley Amos

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I was making the point that we’ve all committed adultery at some time in our lives.

I see your point, but there’s a difference Between committing adultery with someone in your heart and literally committing adultery. But believe me I do see your point.
 
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John Helpher

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That's not what I meant at all.

Hi NG. Thanks for clarifying, but this clarification does seem to make the issue more confused. I went back and had a look at some of your previous comments to try to get some context behind your frustration (i.e. the sigh). Your previous comments do seem to suggest that your frustration is related to people saying that, at least in Christianity, you only get one shot, meaning that divorce is immoral. For example, in post #63 you said this:

It boggles my mind the way some Christians firmly believe that others in the Body should spend their entire lives lonely, involuntarily celibate, frustrated, longing for companionship and unfulfilled, because another person behaved in a way that caused a marriage to end. There are many reasons that marriages cannot work, many more than just adultery. Those who say things like "Well, unless your spouse cheated on you or died, you can't move on or love again or be with anyone else, ever, for the rest of your life, or you're an adulterer" are coming from a place of such cold, hard legalism that it's hard for me to comprehend. Again, why is the spouse left behind being punished for what the other person did?!

One quick clarification is that there is nothing in Jesus' teachings which suggests that a widow cannot remarry. The commitment is "'till death do us part". Paul did suggest that it would be better for widows to not marry again, but he did not forbid it, either.

The other part of your comments is fairly concerning, though. A lot of people focus on that "except it be for fornication" part in Jesus' comments regarding marriage as a kind of loophole to justify divorce. Even that is pretty questionable considering Jesus also said, "what God has joined together, let no person put apart" specifically in the context of Moses allowing divorce, "for the hardness of their hearts". In other words, even if the issue is one of adultery, it's still pretty questionable and even if divorce is permissible in that context, Jesus also makes it clear that remarriage definitely is not permissible.

But you've taken it much further by suggesting not only divorce, but remarriage is reasonable for any circumstance in which a couple no longer cares for one another, even if it's something as simple as just losing interest and, presumably, gaining interest in some other person.

There's no point in making a life long commitment to someone if you're concerned that you may get bored with them and want someone new in a few years.

I understand your concerns about being trapped in a marriage which doesn't work out. This is not a reason to complain against commitment, but rather to be far more cautious before getting married.

So many people, especially in America and other western countries, are taught to focus on the good feelings that come at the start of a romance. Because of these good feelings people tend to overlook warnings signs. As a result, years, or even months later, when the good feelings start to wear out, they see more clearly those problem areas they had previously ignored and then, as you've done in your comments, complain and lament about how they should not have to be trapped in a loveless relationship etc.

It is not wrong to enjoy strong feelings; that ability comes from God and it really can be a blessing, in the right context. The solution is to sort out compatibility first, before making an emotional commitment, and then you will see all the more clearly whether this person really is right for you in the long run.
 
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NerdGirl

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But you've taken it much further by suggesting not only divorce, but remarriage is reasonable for any circumstance in which a couple no longer cares for one another, even if it's something as simple as just losing interest and, presumably, gaining interest in some other person.

There's no point in making a life long commitment to someone if you're concerned that you may get bored with them and want someone new in a few years.

That's not what I suggested at all. You're projecting enormously with every post you make in response to me.

I understand your concerns about being trapped in a marriage which doesn't work out.

No disrespect to you, but I really don't think you do.

This is not a reason to complain against commitment, but rather to be far more cautious before getting married.

I've never said otherwise, nor do I think otherwise.
 
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John Helpher

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That's not what I suggested at all.

Okay, but then what did you mean by, "What I perceive as legalism, ignorance, and hardness of heart on this topic"? Certainly I do not want to tell you what you think; I'm just trying to understand what you think. Would you mind elaborating?
 
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aiki

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I married when I was 39. Until the time I married, I'd had no serious romantic relationship with a woman. The only woman I've ever kissed romantically is my wife. I've never snuggled with another woman, or declared my love (the romantic kind) to any other besides my wife.

I'd not wanted to be single 'til I was 39. I had many lonely days, wishing I had a wife and kids, wondering what was wrong with me, feeling deeply unhappy and pathetic. Until the day God confronted me with the faultiness, the sin, of my thinking.

Why was the Creator of the universe, the Greatest Being in all of Creation, not enough for me? Why could He not satisfy me, make me entirely content? And if He could not fully satisfy me, what hope would any fallible, sin-cursed human person have of doing so?

I was deeply convicted. And keenly aware of how small God had become in my thinking. I began to consider much more carefully who it was I was claiming was my God. As I did, I came to the place where I realized and was convinced that God was enough; if I never married, I could be completely satisfied just with my Maker. I told God so. And as I began to live in the contentment and peace of this conviction about God and an expanded view of Him, my feelings of loneliness and unhappiness lifted.

About a year and half later I was married. I've often wondered about the timing of these things - my being content just with God and then my getting married. I am convinced that I would have made a very poor husband as I was before coming to see God more clearly and being fully content with Him. I'd have been looking for things in a fallible person that God intends I should (and can only) find in Him.

I wonder, too, about the many people who find themselves divorced and believe that to follow the command of Scripture never to marry again while one's divorced spouse still lives, is to live in unhappy, unfulfilled loneliness. If God is who He says He is, how can He not be fully satisfying, fully fulfilling in the very deepest and best ways, ways that relieve us of the desperate need to be married?

I think this was Paul's thinking when he wrote that being single was better than being married. He saw and knew that God was entirely satisfying such that marriage was not necessary. Oh, I'm sure that he had certain...physical urges, but living in submission to God brought those urges under His control, freeing Paul from bondage to them. Paul found in his relationship with God, love, joy, peace, contentment of a sort no human could impart to him. I wonder, if people approached marriage from this place with God, if divorce wouldn't disappear entirely (at least among Christians).

Philippians 1:21
21 For to me, to live is Christ...

Philippians 3:7-8
7 But whatever things were gain to me, those things I have counted as loss for the sake of Christ.
8 More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ,
 
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Francis Drake

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No need to be more difinitive. I'm just glad someone else seems to realize it's an unsolved conundrum.
I think it's unsolvable because people keep hammering their religious piety into it with a sledge hammer.
My heart tells me that God would not be so cruel as to expect one to live a life of loneliness because of a mistake that can happen to anyone. Meaning they can remarry and be fine. But I cannot prove that.
Amen to that.
From some of these posts, the God people worship seems to be tyrant
As it stands, we remarry, we commit adultery and if we live in a state of adultery as they most certianly will, the bible tells us we will go to hell. Right or wrong, that seems to be the consensus around here.
My first (Christian) wife had an affair and left me after nearly 30 years of marriage.
But now, speaking as a divorced and remarried man of 14 years, I walk with the most incredible peace of God in my heart. I am eternally grateful to the mercy of God, for it was He alone who sent me the most amazing wife I could ever imagine.
I therefore invite all you hard hearted religious accusers to call me an adulterer, because the mercy of God is far greater that your self righteous judgement, and nothing you can say will ever rock me or displace the peace that God has given me.
All I can hope for the remarried is that this type of adultery is no more a damnable sin now, than it was in he day of Moses.
As far as the east is from the west................................
 
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Francis Drake

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That's why this is such a stressful and anxious and even tormentful issue for many Christians. "Is God angry with me? Did I do the right thing? Am I condemned or cursed if I move on and love someone else?" Even if you feel peaceful in your heart about it, the judgement and condemnation and lack of sympathy from fellow believers can cast so much doubt and hurt.
Many decades ago, we had a grieving man stay with us. His wife and small child had divorced him, and he was seriously hurting.
While he stayed with us, another long time friend paid us a visit, and as it happened, he had also gone through a painful divorce.

After I had made introductions, I suggested they chat and compare notes while I made the coffee.

When I came in with the coffee, I asked if they had any conclusions.

Their conclusion was this.-

It's better to be a murderer in the church than a divorcee.

As Christian, if you've killed someone, that obviously happened in the past, it's now over and done with, you've been forgiven, and you can get on with your life, enjoy fellowship, and get to heaven when you die.

As a divorcee, you are a sinner. If you remarry, you become an adulterer, an adulterer today, and an adulterer tomorrow, an adulterer next week and next year and so on till you die.
And because of that, you endure constant condemnation and go to hell when you die.

You can correct that only by remarrying the first wife, or divorcing the second wife, although nobody explains where that puts the second wife. (Other than hell)

One of the most interesting things that always manifests in these threads, is the astonishing levels of self righteousness!
 
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NerdGirl

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Okay, but then what did you mean by, "What I perceive as legalism, ignorance, and hardness of heart on this topic"? Certainly I do not want to tell you what you think; I'm just trying to understand what you think. Would you mind elaborating?

I don't think I wish to elaborate more than I have already. That's not to snub your question or you, but to avoid what feels like a thread that walks a fine line between civil and volatile.

I think that, as I said before, people would do best to tend to themselves, their own families, their own homes, and their own relationships with the Lord. It is all too easy to say "I would never," or "Other people ought to," when you haven't walked that particular path.
 
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