4-year old girl dies in brutal exorcism ritual in Missouri. Parents, neighbors charged.

Carl Emerson · Jan 1, 2021

MIDutch said:
That's true.

Physics has never been able to understand the existence of Thor.

Chemistry has never been able to understand the existence of Zeus.

Geology has never been able to understand the existence of Horus.

Science has NEVER been able to understand any of the supernatural deities that humans believe in.

Including Jesus...

Rene Loup · Jan 1, 2021

Larnievc said:
That’s the No True Scotsman fallacy.

It is knowing them by their fruits.[1-3]

John 14:15-18, 1 John 4:1-21, Matthew 7:15-30, 25:31-46
Definition of HYPOCRISY
https://bigthink.com/ideafeed/the-consequences-of-hypocrisy

If an atheist prays to God on a daily basis and yet claims there is no God, would the No True Scotsman fallacy still apply? Why or why not?

Larnievc said:
I really don’t get your point. Please explain. I have a degree in psychology and ‘demons made me do it’ isn’t part of psychology.

And I am a recluse, genius millionaire who won an incredibly prestigious award in the sciences.

Would you take my word on that? If not, then prove to me that isn't the case.

Please and thank you.

On January 1, 2021, at roughly 5:00 PM Eastern Time, I have removed a rhetorical question that could have potentially broken the forum rules. Please forgive my mistake. I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed to selfishness.

Rene Loup · Jan 1, 2021

Belk said:
Those who can make you believe absurdities can get you to commit atrocities.

Countries practicing State Atheism, such as Communist ones, are among them.[1-3]

According to Encyclopedia of War (2004), roughly 7% of all recorded wars were religiously motivated, half of them because of Islam.[4] Decline of religion is also a common sign of an empire in decline.[5]

Christianity when actually put into practice? Not so much, but it is MUCH easier said than done, given our fallen human nature.[6]

If you disagree, then please post Scripture from the New Testament that advocates violence towards other groups of people.

Please and thank you.

YouTube.com - The Fuel Project - Answers 05 | Would Society Be Better Off Without God?
Atheism's Body Count - Ideology and Human Suffering > The Scholars Corner
Communism
Encyclopedia of Wars (Vol. 3) (2004) - Alan Axelrod & Charles Phillips - pg. 1484-1485
http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf - Sir John Bagot Glubb - pg. 10-20
Deuteronomy 5:1-22, 6:1-25, Exodus 20:1-17, Luke 10:25-37, Mark 12:28-34, Matthew 22:34-40, Romans 13:8-10

Belk · Jan 1, 2021

Rene Loup said:
Countries practicing State Atheism, such as Communist ones, are among them.[1-3]

According to Encyclopedia of War (2004), roughly 7% of all recorded wars were religiously motivated, half of them because of Islam.[4] Decline of religion is also a common sign of an empire in decline.[5]

Christianity when actually put into practice? Not so much, but it is MUCH easier said than done, given our fallen human nature.[6]

If you disagree, then please post Scripture from the New Testament that advocates violence towards other groups of people.

Please and thank you.

YouTube.com - The Fuel Project - Answers 05 | Would Society Be Better Off Without God?

Atheism's Body Count - Ideology and Human Suffering > The Scholars Corner

Communism

Encyclopedia of Wars (Vol. 3) (2004) - Alan Axelrod & Charles Phillips - pg. 1484-1485

http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf - Sir John Bagot Glubb - pg. 10-20

Deuteronomy 5:1-22, 6:1-25, Exodus 20:1-17, Luke 10:25-37, Mark 12:28-34, Matthew 22:34-40, Romans 13:8-10

What on earth does this have to do with a group beating a 4 year old to death trying to perform an exercisim? That is the topic of this thread.

Rene Loup · Jan 1, 2021

Belk said:
What on earth does this have to do with a group beating a 4 year old to death trying to perform an exercisim? That is the topic of this thread.

If you are referring to Christianity as believing in absurdities (which I am more than willing to admit I might have misinterpreted your post), then all I am saying is that lack of belief in God is no better, because we are all flawed human beings who are predisposed to selfishness.

Belk · Jan 1, 2021

Rene Loup said:
If you are referring to Christianity as believing in absurdities (which I am more than willing to admit I might have misinterpreted your post), then all I am saying is that lack of belief in God is no better, because we are all flawed human beings who are predisposed to selfishness.

Believing you can beat literal demons out of people is absurd and lead to an atrocity. That is the topic of the thread. Not belief in gods or lack thereof.

Rene Loup · Jan 1, 2021

Belk said:
Believing you can beat literal demons out of people is absurd and lead to an atrocity. That is the topic of the thread. Not belief in gods or lack thereof.

Wouldn't beating demons out of people involve belief in gods or lack thereof?

loveofourlord · Jan 1, 2021

I never got the whole idea of excorcisms. God is all powerful, he has powerful angels...but a demon takes hours or days of fasting and praying and throwing holy water at it to remove it?

Rene Loup · Jan 1, 2021

I am not here to win, I am here to exchange ideas, learn from them, and grow in Christ-like character.

None of us win by being right, we all win by doing the above statement.

I have exchanged my ideas and I hope it has all provided food for thought. Thank you all for your contributions to this debate, I greatly appreciate all of your input. I will try to learn from anything I can get from this topic, both constructive criticism and whatever food for thought was put on my plate. I just want to say that none of this was meant to be personal. I do apologize if it ever felt that way. I still love you all and I pray you all can forgive me.

Moderators, if I have broken any forum rules at all, I am deeply sorry and I accept full responsibility for my actions. I still have a lot of growing to do, especially in the Fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:13-26). We all do, it is a life long process.

I give the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob/Israel ALL the glory. Hallelujah, praise the Lord! I am nothing without God. I never was anything without God. If God did not exist, I would be even less.

...And this is the only thing I will say with pride! (2 Corinthians 10:12-17)

Everybody, take care, stay safe, and God bless! I hope this year of 2021 will be much, much better than 2020, God willing!

coffee4u · Jan 1, 2021

Larnievc said:
They were Christian beliefs. They believed in demons and thought that the beating would get rid of them.

Christian beliefs come from the Bible. You wont find any verse about beating demons out of someone.

NerdGirl · Jan 1, 2021

jayem said:
In my 40+ year career in health care, I saw one person who was supposedly demon possesed. I was a 3rd year med student. The man was in his early 20s. His family said he’d been in good health and didn’t take drugs or use alcohol. There was no history of head trauma. In the last couple of weeks he unexpectedly had a sudden personality change. He became sullen and withdrawn. He stopped going to his job. He said he heard voices telling him to do terrible things. He began talking incoherently, and at times shouting or barking like a dog. He ate and drank very little. For the last several days, he was in bed, not moving, incontinent, eyes staring straight ahead, and seemingly unresponsive. His very religious parents were certain he’d been demon possessed. For nearly a whole day, his pastor, and other church members prayed at his bedside for his deliverance. When he stopped eating and drinking entirely, he was finally brought to the ER. A head CT scan was normal. (This was the pre-MRI era.) A spinal tap was negative for infection. Aside from dehydration, all his blood tests were in the normal range. The senior neurology and psychiatry residents examined him. It was obvious this young man had suffered an acute schizophrenic break, and was in a catatonic state. He was admitted to the psychiatry service, started on IV fluids, and given IM Haldol every 4 hours. By the next morning, he had woken up, was walking on the ward, drinking coffee, and talking coherently with the staff. I remember this so clearly because it was the most incredible turnaround in any patient’s condition that I’ve ever seen.

I suppose that demon possession can’t be ruled out with absolute certainty. But I can’t imagine what kind of supernatural demon can resist hours of prayer, but is chased away by a anti-psychotic drug.

Poor guy

What a terrible experience that must have been for him and his family.

ThatRobGuy · Jan 1, 2021

Stories like this are the reason why, when someone says "the government has no right to tell someone how to raise their child or what they should be taught, the parents are the ones who know best how to care for/discipline/raise their own child!", I typically say "that's not true in a lot of cases".

As much a "libertarian utopia" sounds great on paper, with everyone having the bare minimum oversight, and everyone minding their own business, and not harming anyone else...stories like this are why it can never work, and likely the reason why we don't see minarchist societies (AKA A night-watchman state) lasting too long before they start trending toward more and more necessary oversight in order to protect people.

KCfromNC · Jan 2, 2021

Rene Loup said:
How does one scientifically prove the existence of a supreme being who created the laws of science, can bend the laws of science to his own will at any given time, and prefers us to have faith in him, without empirical evidence, because he literally does not think like us?

In my experience, not very successfully. I mean, people sometimes resort to tortured word games to try and "prove" these beings exist using some dodgy assumptions, but a lot of times they just pretend that the rules have to be different for proving the particular god they just happened to grow up believing in.

KCfromNC · Jan 2, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
In this particular case we don't know if the drugs were effective - otherwise why express surprise that there was such a sudden change?

An alternative interpretation is that it was surprising how quickly the drugs did work to restore normal brain chemistry.

I speak from first hand experience - 50 years ago I was incarcerated and on a course of ECT and drug therapy - BUT Folks Prayed - I was unexpectedly released. My healing came from 7 years of prayer and ministry including deliverance.

Trying to disprove numerous rigorous double-blind medical trials with anecdotes like this isn't very convincing.

Larniavc · Jan 2, 2021

Carl Emerson said:
In this particular case we don't know if the drugs were effective - otherwise why express surprise that there was such a sudden change? This is not expected under normal circumstances.

I speak from first hand experience - 50 years ago I was incarcerated and on a course of ECT and drug therapy - BUT Folks Prayed - I was unexpectedly released. My healing came from 7 years of prayer and ministry including deliverance.

Why not the ect and meds?

Larniavc · Jan 2, 2021

Rene Loup said:
It is knowing them by their fruits.[1-3]

John 14:15-18, 1 John 4:1-21, Matthew 7:15-30, 25:31-46

Definition of HYPOCRISY

https://bigthink.com/ideafeed/the-consequences-of-hypocrisy

If an atheist prays to God on a daily basis and yet claims there is no God, would the No True Scotsman fallacy still apply? Why or why not?

And I am a recluse, genius millionaire who won an incredibly prestigious award in the sciences.

Would you take my word on that? If not, then prove to me that isn't the case.

Please and thank you.

On January 1, 2021, at roughly 5:00 PM Eastern Time, I have removed a rhetorical question that could have potentially broken the forum rules. Please forgive my mistake. I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed to selfishness.

An atheist does not pray to God.

I do have a degree in psychology and a masters degree in CBT.

If the only thing you can do is call me a liar I guess we are done here.

Are you calling me a liar?

Larniavc · Jan 2, 2021

coffee4u said:
Christian beliefs come from the Bible. You wont find any verse about beating demons out of someone.

If you believe that the beliefs that many Christians have all come from the Bible you are greatly mistaken.

Rene Loup · Jan 2, 2021

Larnievc said:
An atheist does not pray to God.

I do have a degree in psychology and a masters degree in CBT.

If the only thing you can do is call me a liar I guess we are done here.

Are you calling me a liar?

I forgive you. Seventy times seven.

Do not expect any further replies from me.

Take care, stay safe, and God bless!

On January 2, 2021, at roughly 12:35 AM Eastern Time, I have added the first line into this post. Pardon my manners. I am a flawed human being who is predisposed towards selfishness.

Desk trauma · Jan 2, 2021

Desk trauma · Jan 2, 2021

Rene Loup said:
Countries practicing State Atheism, such as Communist ones...

Were operating under absurd utopian beliefs which dove tails nicely into the quote about absurdities leading to atrocities.

4-year old girl dies in brutal exorcism ritual in Missouri. Parents, neighbors charged.

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