WHEN WAS CHRIST CRUCIFIED?

AFrazier said:

Brother, we've been over this in the past. I'm not going to argue your celebratory and theologically conceptualized traditions with plain statements of scripture. Three gospels say that the last supper was on the first day of unleavened bread. Two of those three specifically state that the day of the last supper was not merely the first day of unleavened bread, but the very day when the lambs were sacrificed. The last supper occurred on the 14th of Nisan. Since he was crucified the next morning, he was crucified on the 15th. I don't really care if that doesn't mesh with the way you want it to line up with some symbolic parallel you choose to embrace. The truth is established in the mouth of two or more witnesses. Three gospels detail the specific day of the last supper. Three gospels state that two disciples went and prepared the Passover.

This is not a debatable point.

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AFrazier said:

The afternoon preceding the last supper was the first day of unleavened bread, when the passover was sacrificed. That is what the gospels say. If you are saying anything other than that, you are mistaken. If you pick what they are saying apart, then you are picking apart the Gospels.

That is the only reality and argument.

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James Honigman said:

I'm curious, does anyone have an opinion on what calendar year Christ was crucified and resurrected?

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LoveGodsWord said:

Where do three gospels state that the last supper was on the first day of unleavened bread?

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AFrazier said:

Matthew 26:17 - Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

Mark 14:12 - And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22:7-8 - Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

This is the afternoon preceding the last supper.

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LoveGodsWord said:

Hi AFrazier thanks for your reply.

So then according to your view you have a contradiction between Mark 14:12; Luke 22:7-8 and John 13:1-5 in regards to when the timing of Christs death is in how you read the above scriptures which appear to contradict each other right in the timing of the Feast days?

There is actually no contradiction here between the the synoptic gospels and the gospel of John if you understand the old testament scriptures in regards to the Feast days but let me explain why.

In Numbers 28. There we read the following:

Numbers 28:16-25
[16], And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of the LORD.
[17], And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.
[18], In the first day shall be an holy convocation; you shall do no manner of servile work therein:
[19], But you shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering to the LORD; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be to you without blemish:
[20], And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall you offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;
[21], A several tenth deal shall you offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs:
[22], And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.
[23], You shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering.
[24], After this manner you shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet smell to the LORD: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
[25], And on the seventh day you shall have an holy convocation; you shall do no servile work.

This passage tells us several things about the Passover which are helpful in understanding the events of the crucifixion. First, we note in this passage that the Passover proper is on the fourteenth day of the month Nisan. However, this day of the Passover is then followed by the feast of the Passover which is a seven day period of sacrifices and feasting beginning on the fifteenth of Nisan. We can also see in this passage that only unleavened bread was to be eaten during the seven days of the Passover feast.

When we compare Numbers 28 with Exodus 12, we learn further that the first Passover meal occurs on the evening of the fourteenth, and this first meal is also supposed to be eaten with unleavened bread. Thus the fourteenth is sometimes referred to as the first day of unleavened bread. Exodus 12:19 also tells us that, during the seven days of feasting beginning on the fifteenth of Nisan, the Jews were not only to eat unleavened bread, but they were also to have no leaven anywhere in their homes.

Thus the seven days of feasting beginning on the fifteenth are sometimes referred to as the days of unleavened bread. The fact that the Jews were not allowed to have leaven in their houses during the week of feast days also explains why the fourteenth was referred to as the day of preparation. The evening of the fourteenth was spent in celebration of the Passover proper with a meal of lamb, bitter herbs and unleavened bread while the following day of the fourteenth was spent removing all leaven from the home in preparation for the Passover week.

Now when we return to the accounts in John and Mark, we can see that both accounts are accurate. The Passover meal would have been eaten during the evening of the fourteenth.

No that we have looked at the origins of the Passover from the old testament let's look at the scriptures you have provided and see how they do not contradict Johns account...

Matthew 26:17 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Where will you have us prepare for you to eat the Passover?” He said, “Go into the city to a certain man and say to him, ‘The Teacher says, My time is at hand. I will keep the Passover at your house with my disciples.’” And the disciples did as Jesus had directed them, and they prepared the Passover.

Observe the mention of “the first day of Unleavened Bread.” This is not specifically the Feast of Unleavened Bread lasting seven days beginning on Nisan 15, but the first of eight days in which unleavened bread is to be eaten. The feast continued "eight" days, including the day on which the paschal lamb was killed and eaten, Exodus 12:15. That was the fourteenth day of Nissan. Thus, the day in question is Nisan 14, the day for the Passover seder meal. That this is the proper understanding is confirmed by the words “prepare…to eat.” They refer to slaughtering the lamb just as Nisan 14 begins at evening, and along with it preparing the unleavened bread and bitter herbs which are part and parcel with the meal as laid out in Exodus 12.

Mark 14:12-16 On the first day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover lamb was being sacrificed [i.e., on Nisan 14], His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare for You to eat the Passover?” “…go into the city, and a man will meet you carrying a pitcher of water; follow him; and wherever he enters, say to the owner of the house, ‘The Teacher says, “Where is My guest room in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?’ And he himself will show you a large upper room furnished and ready; prepare for us there.” The disciples went out and came to the city, and found it just as He had told them; and they prepared the Passover .

These verses do not include the Greek word for “feast,” heorte, as in Luke 22:1 below (“Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which is called the Passover, was approaching”). As noted earlier, the truncated expression, “Unleavened Bread” without “the feast of,” is the broad use described in Exodus 12:18 that includes the Passover seder meal of Nisan 14 (“In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at evening, you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month at evening”). Therefore, “first day” as used here refers to Nisan 14, not to the first day of the strictly-defined (in Exodus 12, Numbers 28 and Leviticus 23) Feast of Unleavened Bread that starts on Nisan 15. The focus of Mark 14:12 is not on the festival as a whole, but specifically on the group meal of the Paschal Lamb along with unleavened bread. Since the room was already “furnished and ready,” the only preparing needed was the meal. Peter and John (see Luke 22) could handle the slaughtering of the lamb and cooking everything just between the two of them.

Luke 22:1; 7-13 Now the Feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover….Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. So Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it.” They said to him, “Where will you have us prepare it?” He said to them, “Behold, when you have entered the city, a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him into the house that he enters and tell the master of the house, ‘The Teacher says to you, Where is the guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?’ And he will show you a large upper room furnished; prepare it there.” And they went and found it just as he had told them, and they prepared the Passover .

The emphasized words give the keys to understanding this passage, which corresponds perfectly with what Matthew and Mark reported. Luke begins by talking about the formally-defined Feast of Unleavened Bread held from Nisan 15-21 inclusive, then his focus switches to Nisan 14, the day the Passover lamb was slaughtered and on which unleavened bread was eaten for the first time as part of the complex of Passover-related events. “Prepare the Passover for us, that we may eat it” means just what it says—kill the lamb as Nisan 14 begins and also bake the unleavened bread, so the meal can be eaten.

John 13:1-2 Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. During supper, when the devil had already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him…(John 13:1-2).

Here we have the expression, “Feast of the Passover.” “Feast of” should be understood as a technical term, marking this as a mention of the Feast of Unleavened Bread starting on Nisan 15, of which the Passover seder meal on Nisan 14 was part of the whole complex of events. Since the verse continues with mentions of the “hour” of His departure (the Crucifixion), the reference to “during supper,” and the betrayal of Judas which we know took place in the wee hours of the night on Nisan 14, the supper mentioned must be one and the same as the Passover seder described in the other Gospels.

So with the background of the old testament scriptures on the Feasts of unleavened bread and Passover and we can see that all gospels are in harmony and not in contradiction and that Nissan 14 was the preparation and seder meal of the Passover proper that starts on the evening of Nissan 15.

The "last supper" was at the beginning of Nisan 14, with Jesus being executed the following day (still 14th), at the time of the "evening sacrifice" or the ninth hour (3PM) Nisan 14. The typical Passover would then be eaten at the end of this day, at the start of Nisan 15.

This is also verified by Paul when he says in his First Epistle to the Corinthians, that Jesus died on a 14 Nisan ("sacrificed as a Passover lamb", 1 Corinthians 5:7), and was resurrected on the Jewish festival of the first fruits, i.e. on a 16 Nisan (1 Corinthians 15:20).

Hope this is helpful.

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AFrazier said:

I appreciate you spending so much time trying to educate. But I am by no means a novice on this topic. It is the subject of my research for the last twenty years. The concluding explanation you gave is not correct.

The process was as follows:

As the sun was beginning to set on the 13th of Nisan (towards the 14th at full sunset), called "twilight," the search for leaven began. That was one of three periods of search. The second would begin near sunrise on the 14th, also during "twilight." The third search was made around 11:00 in the morning, right before all leaven was burned at noon on the day of the 14th.

Beginning at 1:00 in the afternoon on the 14th day, the lambs began to be sacrificed. They were roasted, and the parties that were to partake of each lamb would check in with the temple priests.

As the sun began to go down on the 14th day (as it approached the 15th at full sunset), each registered party would come together and eat. The lamb had to be entirely consumed by midnight, else the remains had to be burned.

The day of the 15th there was a second feast. This was also often referred to as the passover, though it was haggigah, or a festive offering.

There is no contradiction between John and the Synoptic gospels because John never says that Jesus was crucified on the 14th. The few passages that are often referred to don't definitively give a date. That Jesus knew it was his time before the feast of the passover doesn't mean it wasn't yet the passover. It just means that he already knew before the feast that his time had come. To read more into it than that is just confirmation bias. When John says that it was the preparation of the passover, that merely means that it was the day of preparation (Friday) during passover week. That the priests didn't want to enter Pilate's domain so they could eat the passover is no more than their desire to stay clean for the haggigah (paska) of the 15th.

The only thing we have that is definitive is that Mark and Luke both state that on the afternoon preceding the last supper, it was the first day of unleavened bread (the 14th, when all leaven had to be removed and burned), and the day that the passover had to be sacrificed (also the 14th). Two disciples then went and prepared the passover (which they couldn't have legally done before the afternoon of the 14th).

It is beyond question that the last supper was the passover. It was held on the evening of the 14th as the sunset ushered in the 15th. He was arrested that night and crucified the next morning, the 15th of Nisan.

If absolutely necessary, I can provide source material for all of these facts. This is how it happened.

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1. The crucifixion took place on “the preparation [eve] of the passover,” that is, on Nisan 14 (John 19:14-16; cf. Talmud Pesaḥim 58a, Soncino ed., p. 288; Sanhedrin 43a, Soncino ed., p. 281; Ex. 12:6).
2. The death of Christ took place on a Friday afternoon (Mark 15:42 to 16:2; Luke 23:54 to 24:1; John 19:31, 42, 20:1), about the time of the evening sacrifice.
3. Accordingly, in the year of the crucifixion, Nisan 14, the day appointed for slaying the paschal lambs, fell on a Friday; the preparation for (or eve of) the Passover coincided with the preparation for (or eve of) the weekly Sabbath (John 19:14-16; cf. vs. 31, 42; ch. 20:1). The first ceremonial sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, Nisan 15, thus coincided with the weekly Sabbath (Leviticus 23:6–8; cf. Mark 15:42 to 16:2; Luke 23:5 to 24:1).
4. The Last Supper happened the night before the crucifixion (Matthew 26:17, 20, 26, 34, 47; Mark 14:12, 16, 17; 22:7, 8, 13–15; John 13:2, 4, 30; 14:31; 18:1–3, 28; 19:14-16), that is, during the early hours of Nisan 14 and thus on a Thursday night.
5. The gospels call the Last Supper a Passover supper (Matthew 26:17, 20; Mark 14:12, 16, 17; Luke 22:7, 8, 13–15).
6. Jesus laid in the tomb during the Sabbath (Matthew 27:59 to 28:1; Mark 15:43 to 16:1; Luke 23:54 to 24:1; John 19:38 to 20:1), which would be Nisan 15.
7. Jesus rose from death early Sunday morning, Nisan 16 (Matthew 28:1–6; Mark 16:1–6; Luke 24:1–6; John 20:1–16; Mark 15:42, 46).

AFrazier said:

It's not rocket science.

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AFrazier said:

The day of the 15th there was a second feast. This was also often referred to as the passover, though it was haggigah, or a festive offering.

There is no contradiction between John and the Synoptic gospels because John never says that Jesus was crucified on the 14th. The few passages that are often referred to don't definitively give a date. That Jesus knew it was his time before the feast of the passover doesn't mean it wasn't yet the passover. It just means that he already knew before the feast that his time had come. To read more into it than that is just confirmation bias. When John says that it was the preparation of the passover, that merely means that it was the day of preparation (Friday) during passover week. That the priests didn't want to enter Pilate's domain so they could eat the passover is no more than their desire to stay clean for the haggigah (paska) of the 15th.

The only thing we have that is definitive is that Mark and Luke both state that on the afternoon preceding the last supper, it was the first day of unleavened bread (the 14th, when all leaven had to be removed and burned), and the day that the passover had to be sacrificed (also the 14th). Two disciples then went and prepared the passover (which they couldn't have legally done before the afternoon of the 14th).

It is beyond question that the last supper was the passover. It was held on the evening of the 14th as the sunset ushered in the 15th. He was arrested that night and crucified the next morning, the 15th of Nisan.

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AFrazier said:

Matthew 26:17 - Now the first day of the feast of unleavened bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover?

Mark 14:12 - And the first day of unleavened bread, when they killed the passover, his disciples said unto him, Where wilt thou that we go and prepare that thou mayest eat the passover?

Luke 22:7-8 - Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

This is the afternoon preceding the last supper.

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AFrazier said:

So some symbolic parallel can be drawn.

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LoveGodsWord said:

The Passover lamb was killed in the late afternoon of Nisan 14, following the regular evening sacrifice, and eaten, with unleavened bread, after sunset that same night, during the early hours of Nisan 15 (Exodus 12:6–14, 29, 33, 42, 51; 13:3–7; Numbers 9:1–5; 33:3; Deuteronomy 16:1–7; Josephus Antiquities ii. 14. 6; iii. 10. 5; xi. 4. 8 [311, 312; 248, 249; 109, 110]; War v. 3. 1 [98, 99]; vi. 9. 3 [423]; Philo De septenario, sec. 18; Mishnah Pesaḥim 5. 1, Soncino ed. of the Talmud, p. 287).

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

For you it seems to be...John 19:14...John 19:31

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

So John is vague? So who is now arguing with scripture? So just discount John. Paul must be wrong also? Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy must be wrong too? John the Baptist was wrong too? We KNOW that the lambs were NOT killed on the 15th, the 1st of unleavened...it is a fact...so either you are wrong or those passages mean something else.

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

So WHAT are the rules for the Hagigah? What are the rules for the Pesakh sacrifice? What kind of animals could be sacrificed? You do know that Hagigah are sacrificed on Passover, Shavout and Sukkot. Some symbolic parallel...(Luke 24:27)? You DO know that no bone of the Pesakh sacrifice could be broken? Not so with the Hagigah! The Pesakh had to be roasted whole...not so with the Hagigah! Was there a Hagigah on the 14th? I could go on by why bother, you would just discount any Pesakh fulfillment by Yeshua. If no parallels or fulfillments matter, then why didn't He die in July?

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Yeshua HaDerekh said:

You do know that there was a meal...a "last supper" done the evening before the fast of the firstborn (Ta'anit B'khorim) during the daylight hours, sunrise to sunset, of the 14th? This meal was called "seudah maphsehket", literally the "last supper" before the fast...the fast ends with the Pesakh meal, which Yeshua could NOT have eaten because He was in the tomb...

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AFrazier said:

He was crucified on a Friday. It was passover week. Friday is called "the day of the preparation," or more simply, "the preparation," by the Jews of that era. That Friday was therefore the preparation of the passover, or the day of preparation of passover week.

Not complicated.

They wanted their legs broken so they would be dead before the sabbath. The law required that bodies hanged were not to stay hanged all night. They had to be buried the same day. Once the sabbath set in at sunset, it would be a new day.

Deuteronomy 21:22-23 - "And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: his body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God...."

Again, not complicated.

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AFrazier said:

Source please. Most Jews didn't eat before the passover meal.

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AFrazier said:

I know these rules intimately. I'm not going to argue them with you. Instead, why wasn't Jesus roasted? If the exact rules of the passover have to apply to Jesus so strictly that history and scripture should be ignored so Jesus can die on the 14th (in spite of direct testimony to the contrary), then why didn't they cut his throat, drain his blood into a dish, sprinkle it on the altar fire, and then roast him?

You don't realize the futility of your argument.

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