The morality of Christian religion & politics

Strathos · Dec 30, 2020

Re: Wicca. I'm not a fan of it, but it's not the kind of Satanic black magic you're implying. It's actually one of those 'new age' religions, invented less than 100 years ago.

Nine of Spades · Dec 30, 2020

Hans Blaster said:
Let me know when this *actually* happens. I've seen no evidence of evil spirits or demonic possession.

I will summarize how demonic possession works and what can be done to resolve it.

A demon is an evil spirit who was once human but failed to achieve eternal salvation and now languishes in hell. Even Satan, the chief demon of hell, once lived an earthly life. Contrary to what most Christians believe about the Devil, he wasn’t supernaturally created by God, as God cannot do evil (he wouldn’t create a maleficent spirit whose purpose is to destroy people’s faith, since that would contradict his nature).

Hell is a painful place. Mark 9:48 says the infernal fires never go away. Demons, whose numbers are in the tens of billions (Matthew 7:14), are desperate for bodies. A human body is basically a refuge for the demons to evade the fires of hell, and without a human host demons will panic and suffer prodigiously (Mark 5:1-20).

How does a demon attach onto a human host? Basically, anyone who is unsaved is a prime target for demons, since the Holy Spirit doesn’t reside within those who reject Christ. Indeed, an unsaved person would have numerous demons on his body (Mark 5:9). However, when someone gets saved by becoming a Christian, the Holy Spirit resides within him (1 Corinthians 3:16), and as a result he cannot possibly have demons attached onto him.

Nine of Spades · Dec 30, 2020

muichimotsu said:
If you can't even have the humility to consider even an iota that I could be right, then it seems like you have the issue. I'll fully admit I'm not making a diagnosis or such, so take that as you will, but I'm not claiming authority or absolute certainty on my assessments or statements in regards to such things.

And that would be especially obvious if you didn't quote mine me and ignore that I qualified it afterwards with, "it seems" meaning I was being provisional in my assessment anyway

I didn't call you stupid, I pointed out that you appear to want to try to compensate for feelings of impotence and act tough to put up this front that you aren't going to bend to tyranny, which is imagined in this context because you are not given an absolute right under civil society to religious exercise in regards to conduct that would infringe on the rights of others.

Pointing out a flaw that could be improved upon is not insulting, it is constructive criticism, learn the difference

It’s not that I think too little of my religion; it’s that I think too much of it and believe Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to God but through him (John 14:6). If I felt inferior about my Christian faith, I would be like one of those liberals who puts a “coexist” bumper sticker on their cars. For this reason, your assessment is backwards.

Nine of Spades · Dec 30, 2020

Strathos said:
Re: Wicca. I'm not a fan of it, but it's not the kind of Satanic black magic you're implying. It's actually one of those 'new age' religions, invented less than 100 years ago.

There are Americans who like to call themselves “Irish” because they have an Irish last name, their ancestors having immigrated to America from that country 200 or so years ago. But they grew up in the United States and probably haven’t been to Ireland. They aren’t technically Irish, but some of these people use the term “Irish American” as a sort of moniker.

By the same token, people who practice New Age religions like to don the term “witch” as a moniker, though they aren’t actual witches in the literal sense of the term, which I defined in my earlier post. They aren’t real witches for the same reason Irish Americans aren’t really Irish.

Desk trauma · Dec 30, 2020

Nine of Spades said:
It’s not that I think too little of my religion; it’s that I think too much of it and believe Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to God but through him (John 14:6).

Yet your posts contend that it needs to be forced on others at gun point. Can't be all that persuasive if that's the case.

Desk trauma · Dec 30, 2020

Nine of Spades said:
I will summarize how demonic possession works and what can be done to resolve it.

A demon is an evil spirit who was once human but failed to achieve eternal salvation and now languishes in hell. Even Satan, the chief demon of hell, once lived an earthly life. Contrary to what most Christians believe about the Devil, he wasn’t supernaturally created by God, as God cannot do evil (he wouldn’t create a maleficent spirit whose purpose is to destroy people’s faith, since that would contradict his nature).

Hell is a painful place. Mark 9:48 says the infernal fires never go away. Demons, whose numbers are in the tens of billions (Matthew 7:14), are desperate for bodies. A human body is basically a refuge for the demons to evade the fires of hell, and without a human host demons will panic and suffer prodigiously (Mark 5:1-20).

How does a demon attach onto a human host? Basically, anyone who is unsaved is a prime target for demons, since the Holy Spirit doesn’t reside within those who reject Christ. Indeed, an unsaved person would have numerous demons on his body (Mark 5:9). However, when someone gets saved by becoming a Christian, the Holy Spirit resides within him (1 Corinthians 3:16), and as a result he cannot possibly have demons attached onto him.

Claims are not evidence.

Desk trauma · Dec 30, 2020

Nine of Spades said:
By the same token, people who practice New Age religions like to don the term “witch” as a moniker, though they aren’t actual witches in the literal sense of the term, which I defined in my earlier post. They aren’t real witches for the same reason Irish Americans aren’t really Irish.

Do you defer to those outside your religion to tell you what terms you get to use to describe your religious practice? If not, why do you get to dictate to others what they are or are not?

Robban · Dec 30, 2020

Nine of Spades said:
I will summarize how demonic possession works and what can be done to resolve it.

A demon is an evil spirit who was once human but failed to achieve eternal salvation and now languishes in hell. Even Satan, the chief demon of hell, once lived an earthly life. Contrary to what most Christians believe about the Devil, he wasn’t supernaturally created by God, as God cannot do evil (he wouldn’t create a maleficent spirit whose purpose is to destroy people’s faith, since that would contradict his nature).

Hell is a painful place. Mark 9:48 says the infernal fires never go away. Demons, whose numbers are in the tens of billions (Matthew 7:14), are desperate for bodies. A human body is basically a refuge for the demons to evade the fires of hell, and without a human host demons will panic and suffer prodigiously (Mark 5:1-20).

How does a demon attach onto a human host? Basically, anyone who is unsaved is a prime target for demons, since the Holy Spirit doesn’t reside within those who reject Christ. Indeed, an unsaved person would have numerous demons on his body (Mark 5:9). However, when someone gets saved by becoming a Christian, the Holy Spirit resides within him (1 Corinthians 3:16), and as a result he cannot possibly have demons attached onto him.

Sounds similar to covid 19.

Silly as it may seem.

dlamberth · Dec 30, 2020

Nine of Spades said:
By the same token, people who practice New Age religions like to don the term “witch” as a moniker, though they aren’t actual witches in the literal sense of the term, which I defined in my earlier post. They aren’t real witches for the same reason Irish Americans aren’t really Irish.

I know a number of Pagan's who call themselves Wiccan. None of then I'd consider "New Age". New Age spirituality is a different trajectory than that of the Pagans. But when seen from the outside I can understand the confusion.

Nine of Spades · Dec 30, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Claims are not evidence.

You’re on a Christian message board called ChristianForums. It’s normal to see Christians here—or anywhere—using Bible verses to make their point. I’m not going to prove my theological arguments with scientific method. Why are you expecting Christians to talk theology as if it were scientism? That wouldn’t be religion in the first place.

Desk trauma · Dec 30, 2020

Nine of Spades said:
You’re on a Christian message board called ChristianForums. It’s normal to see Christians here—or anywhere—using Bible verses to make their point. I’m not going to prove my theological arguments with scientific method. Why are you expecting Christians to talk theology as if it were scientism? That wouldn’t be religion in the first place.

You were asked for evidence of what you claimed. You replied with more claims hence my post.

Also, you did not even fulfill what you claimed at the outset of your post within the fact free context of posting proof texts as you did not say how possession could be resolved.

Desk trauma · Dec 30, 2020

Robban said:
Sounds similar to covid 19.

Silly as it may seem.

Is there a nasal swab for possession of does someone need to draw blood for the test?

essentialsaltes · Dec 30, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Is there a nasal swab for possession of does someone need to draw blood for the test?

Robban · Dec 30, 2020

Desk trauma said:
Is there a nasal swab for possession of does someone need to draw blood for the test?

I was just reading the posters description and substituting demon for a virus germ and HS for vaccine.

Silly as it may seem.

No need to make a big number of it.

Desk trauma · Dec 30, 2020

Robban said:
I was just reading the posters description and substituting demon for a virus germ and HS for vaccine.

Silly as it may seem.

No need to make a big number of it.

I was trying to see how far the comparison goes. It's like Covid, we can test to see if someone has the virus hence I wanted to know if there was a similar objective test for possession.

Robban · Dec 30, 2020

Desk trauma said:
I was trying to see how far the comparison goes. It's like Covid, we can test to see if someone has the virus hence I wanted to know if there was a similar objective test for possession.

I do not know, in the Jewish Bible the Satan is named what,

four or five times?

We have a little other views, like the evil inclination to deal with.

muichimotsu · Dec 30, 2020

Nine of Spades said:
It’s not that I think too little of my religion; it’s that I think too much of it and believe Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to God but through him (John 14:6). If I felt inferior about my Christian faith, I would be like one of those liberals who puts a “coexist” bumper sticker on their cars. For this reason, your assessment is backwards.

Where did I remotely suggest you thought little of your religion?

There is such a thing as excessive devotion and you're an emblematic example here

No it isn't because feeling inferior is not the same as humility, which you're not embodying remotely with the idea that your religion is absolutely true and you could not be wrong at all. You're projecting this sense of subconscious concern, it seems, onto others, while asserting, through reaction formation, that you are absolutely confident and thus must be right

dlamberth · Dec 30, 2020

muichimotsu said:
There is such a thing as excessive devotion and you're an emblematic example here

Devotion as in excessive?...I've never had that impression of Nine of Spades. I'd say more like strong belief.

muichimotsu · Dec 30, 2020

Robban said:
I do not know, in the Jewish Bible the Satan is named what,

four or five times?

We have a little other views, like the evil inclination to deal with.

If we're talking a specific entity versus the uses of satan that are talking more generally, yeah, I think they're pretty few and far between, but I'm skeptical most "devout Christians" have bothered to consider the Jewish predecessors and interpretations of the text that they decide to claim is theirs without any understanding of the cultural context at all

muichimotsu · Dec 30, 2020

dlamberth said:
Devotion as in excessive?...I've never had that impression of Nine of Spades. I'd say more like strong belief.

When they want to embody the Bible in secular civil society, I'd call that excessive, same as I would for anyone who thinks their personal worldview should be given special treatment by a society that is meant to protect all views within the basis of the law, not just the ones people think deserve more privileges because they were held by the Founding Fathers or are held in higher numbers demographically

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