parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0

Christian Gedge

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,214
1,361
Waikato
Visit site
✟227,010.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Kevin "Chalky" White, of Deptford (London), in the UK. The obvious candidate.

Im, sure that Donald Trump could dream up a way of making his image speak to his worshipers. We live in a high tech age. ;)
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
I just can't see that as being what the image of the beast represents. If the image of the beast was a statue then how could the statue speak?

Revelation 13:15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
Is not breadth, spirit or pneuma? God's breath made man a living soul. This act will be Satan making ai seemingly come to life. Perhaps 50 years ago, the concept was still lost on humanity. They would surely not accept that this image was given a soul. With ai prevalent today, we see an entity with the ability to think and think faster than any human can react. Satan is allowed to mimic life in this form, not some completely new unknown creation of a mere idol, via magic.
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Is not breadth, spirit or pneuma? God's breath made man a living soul. This act will be Satan making ai seemingly come to life. Perhaps 50 years ago, the concept was still lost on humanity. They would surely not accept that this image was given a soul. With ai prevalent today, we see an entity with the ability to think and think faster than any human can react. Satan is allowed to mimic life in this form, not some completely new unknown creation of a mere idol, via magic.

But if everyone already knows it's AI, seems nobody will duped into thinking its "miraculous".

I got my family a VR headset for Christmas... I guarantee you after a few hours inside that thing, there is nothing you can experience that won't make you immediately believe it's fake, not matter how "real" it seems.

Humanity has come too far technologically to be so easily duped by technology.
 
Upvote 0

Berean Tim

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2017
577
207
67
Houston TX
✟145,630.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Rather, they were expecting the singular IT. And John affirms to them that the singular IT they were expecting, had arrived:

1 John 4:3
and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
You read that in. There's no (IT) in 1 John 2 where there heard the singular AC was coming. The spirit of the AC (against Christ) is here, but we're awaiting the person who is captured alive and thrown in the Lake of Fire,
Revelation 19: 20And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
 
Upvote 0

Berean Tim

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2017
577
207
67
Houston TX
✟145,630.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I believe that there seems to be a physical manifestation of the spiritual reality.
It's the same in 2nd Thessalonians 2: 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

The spirit of lawlessness is already at work, we're awaiting the man.
 
Upvote 0

Berean Tim

Well-Known Member
Mar 19, 2017
577
207
67
Houston TX
✟145,630.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No, the anticipation was a Messiah. The ac point is only after they had been duped. No one is looking for a person to fool them into looking stupid. The whole point is following after the wrong Messiah. The church knows He will already have the marks of the Cross. Israel will ask who gave you these marks. The counterfeit will have counterfeit marks.

Jesus never claimed royalty, he was an alternative answer to the corrupt religion of His day. Notice that He occasionally asked His followers who they and the population thought He was. That is how a false Messiah would or has come.

All, today, seem to portray a political leader, bypassing any prior steps. Satan's ac will not be so subtle, nor come before Satan or his FP. That is how John wrote it in Revelation 13. Satan is watching the FP come. Then Satan reveals himself. Then together they create this image. This image is their version of the true Christ.
Well, the passage says they heard the antichrist was coming. Their concern was the tribulation the Ac would bring. Really disputes the Pre-Trib rapture view or they would have no concerns
 
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You read that in. There's no (IT) in 1 John 2 where there heard the singular AC was coming.

I'm not reading it in, I'm reading the text as written.
1 John 2:18 is entirely parallel to 1 John 4:3
It is the EXACT same teaching of the coming (and arrival) of the exact same spirit.

John is not describing two separate singular antichrists that "they heard was coming"

Parallel passages can not be interpreted to have polar opposite meanings.

John simply clarifies 1Jn2:18 in 1Jn4:3.

As John infallibly testifies to his flocks, The singular antichrist that they had heard was coming, is an IT, not a He, and he also teaches IT had already come. Nowhere in John's epistles does he teach that antichrist is/was a singular human being.
Not even anywhere.

No amount of your gymnastics can change what is plainly written.

The spirit of the AC (against Christ) is here, but we're awaiting the person who is captured alive and thrown in the Lake of Fire,
Revelation 19: 20And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.

Nowhere in scripture are we taught to apply the name antichrist to the beast of Revelation. It is YOU my friend who are reading into the text that which does not exist within it's pages.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: Spiritual Jew
Upvote 0

parousia70

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow
Supporter
Feb 24, 2002
15,533
4,826
57
Oregon
✟793,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
But if everyone already knows it's AI, seems nobody will duped into thinking its "miraculous".

I got my family a VR headset for Christmas... I guarantee you after a few hours inside that thing, there is nothing you can experience that won't make you immediately believe it's fake, not matter how "real" it seems.

Humanity has come too far technologically to be so easily duped by technology.
Where does it say they are duped by the image?
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Tim, what verse(s) are reading that the image is the beast?
The progression: Revelation 13:15-18

15 It (Satan) was allowed to put breath into the image (the image) of the beast (FP), so that the image (the image) of the beast (FP) could even speak; and it (Satan) was allowed to cause anyone who would not worship the image (the image) of the beast (FP) to be put to death.
16 Also it (Satan) forces everyone — great and small, rich and poor, free and slave — to receive a mark (of the image) on his right hand or on his forehead
17 preventing anyone from buying or selling unless he has the mark (of the image), that is, the name of the beast (the image) or the number of its (the image) name.
18 This is where wisdom is needed; those who understand should count the number of the beast (the image), for it is the number of a person (Adam), and its (the image) number is 666.

Revelation 14:11

11 and the smoke from their tormenting goes up forever and ever. They have no rest, day or night, those who worship the beast (FP) and its (FP) image (the image) and those who receive the mark of its (the image) name.”

Revelation 15:2

2 I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire. Those defeating the beast (FP), its (FP) image (the image) and the number of its (the image) name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps which God had given them.

Revelation 16:2

2 So the first one went and poured his bowl onto the earth, and disgusting and painful sores appeared on all the people who had the mark of the beast (the image) and worshipped its (FP) image (the image).

Revelation 16:13

13 And I saw three unclean spirits that looked like frogs; they came from the mouth of the dragon (Satan), from the mouth of the beast (the image) and from the mouth of the false prophet (FP).

Revelation 19:19-20

19 I saw the beast (the image) and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to do battle with the rider of the horse and his army.
20 But the beast (the image) was taken captive, and with it (the image) the false prophet (FP) who, in its (the image) presence, had done the miracles which he (FP) had used to deceive those who had received the mark of the beast (the image) and those who had worshipped his (FP) image (the image). The beast (the image) and the false prophet (FP) were both thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
 
Upvote 0

Timtofly

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2020
9,282
568
56
Mount Morris
✟123,523.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Well, the passage says they heard the antichrist was coming. Their concern was the tribulation the Ac would bring. Really disputes the Pre-Trib rapture view or they would have no concerns
1 John 2:17-19

17 And the world is passing away, along with its desires. But whoever does God’s will remains forever.
18 Children, this is the Last Hour. You have heard that an Anti-Messiah is coming; and in fact, many anti-Messiahs have arisen now — which is how we know that this is the Last Hour.
19 They went out from us, but they weren’t part of us; for had they been part of us, they would have remained with us.

The verses do not even mention the tribulation, nor the Second Coming.

The image will still be a beast that will be against Christ.

If the world has not yet passed away, is not every hour the potential last hour?
 
Upvote 0

lsume

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Mar 14, 2017
1,491
696
70
Florida
✟417,518.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's the same in 2nd Thessalonians 2: 3Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessnessb is revealed, the son of destruction,c4who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.

The spirit of lawlessness is already at work, we're awaiting the man.
You might consider that the man is self being changed.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,683
3,404
Non-dispensationalist
✟356,689.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
15 It (Satan) was allowed to put breath into the image (the image) of the beast (FP)
In that verse, it not indicating that the image "is" the beast.

Instead, it is indicating the image is "of" the (first) beast. The people of the earth, at the false prophet's direction, will make an image (statue image) to the first beast - i.e. to honor the first beast, in worshiping the first beast (v.4).


12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FutureAndAHope

Just me
Supporter
Aug 30, 2008
6,362
2,910
Australia
Visit site
✟732,859.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Out of curiosity, who do y'all think the Antichrist will be? I've been studying the evidence for quite some time, and have come to the conclusion that the Antichrist will be a specific Muslim figure, but I would like to know what y'all think and why.

Dan 11:36-38 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.

We know that the anti-christ will proclaim himself to be God.

2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

But whether he says he is the Muslim god, or some other god, we don't know. But Daniel does say he shall honour the god of forces, now the Muslim god certainly fits that description not the Buddhist god of Karma, or the Hindu gods, etc.
 
Upvote 0

rturner76

Domine non-sum dignus
Supporter
May 10, 2011
10,483
3,582
Twin Cities
✟724,718.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Green
Out of curiosity, who do y'all think the Antichrist will be? I've been studying the evidence for quite some time, and have come to the conclusion that the Antichrist will be a specific Muslim figure, but I would like to know what y'all think and why.
I think it will be a super-mega televangelist or God forgive me, The Pope (though not the current one).

The reason I say this is because, from my understanding, the antichrist will fool the elect. I think the elect refers to the largest body of true believers. The Catholic Church has about a billion believers but a televangelist with the right media program could potentially garner a following of an untold number of believers when you consider the new phenomenon of online churches.

A massive online church could potentially enlist half of the globe from all corners of the world. The Catholic Church (which I a, a faithful parishioner of), already has followers from all 7 continents and has followers in every corner of the globe.

IMO, it's not the fact that the Pope will be a Catholic that potentially makes someone in that position a candidate for THE Antichrist but it's the fact that it has the largest number of parishioners than any other "church" so it would be the best target of the Antichrist. That is if THE antichrist doesn't garner billions of followers through TV and media of all kinds (books, magazines, internet, satellite, cable, etc}

I hate to mention my church in the same breath of antichrist but it just makes sense that she would be his target. Hopefully, the system of Cardinals and church law would be able to intervene in a situation where a Pope went antichrist. However, the Bible says that even the elect will be fooled.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Maria Billingsley

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Oct 7, 2018
9,573
7,772
63
Martinez
✟893,850.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Out of curiosity, who do y'all think the Antichrist will be? I've been studying the evidence for quite some time, and have come to the conclusion that the Antichrist will be a specific Muslim figure, but I would like to know what y'all think and why.
Welcome! Scripture never tells us there is one anti-Christ but many. Those are the people who are against Jesus Christ of Nazareth. In the first century there were many against Him. One in particular was Nero. His number is 666. Blessings.
 
Upvote 0