Lets talk about the New Testament commandments (No Sabbath Talk Please)...

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I challenge your years of study. This is a threat to everything you have learned.

As I pointed out before, you elevate yourself to give yourself credit - now way too much. This self-elevation seems to be deep-seated, which I was concerned about once I saw a few self-vaunts. You're moving into sounding a bit crazy. Too bad, because you have some interesting things to say re: the meanings from Scripture.

Bible Highlighter said:
Again, you attack my faith in Christ because I do not share your OAO position? This is not a surprise. It's happened more times than I care to count.

Now some false charges to go along with the self-elevation, which your last 2 sentences actually continue. If disagreeing with KJB-only is for you an attack on your faith in Christ, then I don't know what to tell you. I've challenged a few of your interpretations and the rules of grammar and translation you make up and call rules, but your faith in Christ? Don't be ridiculous. Very odd, because in my view I've agreed with you more on important issues, like salvation, than I normally find myself agreeing with most.

You ought to rethink what's important. You're a bit tender to allow some clarifications on translations to take you where you've gone. Please knock-off this OAO nonsense. It's baseless and sadly typical of those who take traditions (like KJB-only) so seriously. I'll continue to point out details from Scripture whether you like it or not. I've actually limited myself to some degree with what I've detailed, because I perceived you had some authoritative tendencies that could be excited. If you want to hold court, then find a place where no one can respond.

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Circumcision of the heart is another phrase in the Old Testament for being born again. Why do you think Jesus appeared to be surprised when Nicodemus did not know about being being born again?

Why do you say I think Jesus was surprised?

Bible Highlighter said:
How do we become born again? There are certain actions that must take place in order for us to be born again of both water and born again of the Spirit. I see being born of the Spirit as a change of the heart by the Spirit, but I do not believe this happens at random. We need to be broken before God with a godly sorrow and seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and dedicate our life to Him by way of prayer. We need to believe the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

So, you seem to be agreeing with me that when Jesus says we must be born again, He is not giving a direct command for us to obey. But there are direct commands we obey that result in our being born again.

I think we need to believe more than 1Cor15:1-4, which I don't believe is the foundation of Paul's Gospel per Paul, but is a portion of his Gospel he put forth as certainly being vital to our faith.

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Post #139

Thanks. I pointed out some details I disagreed with and stated my reasoning. If you're calling that a challenge, then that's fine. However you took it, I guess it's meaningful that it caused you to revisit some thinking about Scripture and presenting thoughts re: its meaning.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

GDL said:
As I pointed out before, you elevate yourself to give yourself credit - now way too much. This self-elevation seems to be deep-seated, which I was concerned about once I saw a few self-vaunts. You're moving into sounding a bit crazy. Too bad, because you have some interesting things to say re: the meanings from Scripture.

Now some false charges to go along with the self-elevation, which your last 2 sentences actually continue. If disagreeing with KJB-only is for you an attack on your faith in Christ, then I don't know what to tell you. I've challenged a few of your interpretations and the rules of grammar and translation you make up and call rules, but your faith in Christ? Don't be ridiculous. Very odd, because in my view I've agreed with you more on important issues, like salvation, than I normally find myself agreeing with most.

You ought to rethink what's important. You're a bit tender to allow some clarifications on translations to take you where you've gone. Please knock-off this OAO nonsense. It's baseless and sadly typical of those who take traditions (like KJB-only) so seriously. I'll continue to point out details from Scripture whether you like it or not. I've actually limited myself to some degree with what I've detailed, because I perceived you had some authoritative tendencies that could be excited. If you want to hold court, then find a place where no one can respond.

I took that you attacked my faith in Christ when you said this, “You sound in your arena like the denier who says he'll believe when Jesus Himself comes down and speaks to him face-to-face.”

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

GDL said:
Thanks. I pointed out some details I disagreed with and stated my reasoning. If you're calling that a challenge, then that's fine. However you took it, I guess it's meaningful that it caused you to revisit some thinking about Scripture and presenting thoughts re: its meaning.

You challenged my view that Matthew 19:9 is a non-explicit command. That is what I was saying.

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
More NT Commands:

Do violence to no man (Luke 3:14)

Do not accuse anyone falsely (Luke 3:14)

Be content with your wages (Luke 3:14)

And a little different take on the meaning of the first one and the context of the second one by other translators:

NET Luke 3:14 Then some soldiers also asked him, "And as for us– what should we do?" He told them, "Take money from no one by violence or by false accusation, and be content with your pay."

- Commands specifically to some soldiers of the day. Commands certainly seem applicable beyond just them.

- Both the first & second commands (words) carry the meaning and implication of extortion.

- The 3rd one is in the context of the first 2.

- So:

- Can soldiers do violence to others, or is this a command to passivity and being conscientious objectors to wars?

- Does everyone have to be content with their wages, or can we seek raises?

- Translations make a difference.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

GDL said:
Why do you say I think Jesus was surprised?

It was a general question based on the light of what Scriptures says and it was not a statement based on knowing your thoughts and beliefs.

Also, here is a clip of John chapter 3 taken from the Gospel of John which is verbatim from the GNT (Good New Translation):

I mention this because Jesus implies in his speech to Nicodemus that he should have known about being born again.

You said:
So, you seem to be agreeing with me that when Jesus says we must be born again, He is not giving a direct command for us to obey. But there are direct commands we obey that result in our being born again.

We must be born again of water and we must be born again the Spirit.
How do you understand being born again of water?

You said:
I think we need to believe more than 1Cor15:1-4, which I don't believe is the foundation of Paul's Gospel per Paul, but is a portion of his Gospel he put forth as certainly being vital to our faith.

I believe that we must have obedience as a part of our faith and salvation after we are saved by believing in the gospel as per 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I took that you attacked my faith in Christ when you said this, “You sound in your arena like the denier who says he'll believe when Jesus Himself comes down and speaks to him face-to-face.”

You left out here the rest of what I said, that drew the applicable and actual comparison to you based upon what you said.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

GDL said:
- So:

- Can soldiers do violence to others, or is this a command to passivity and being conscientious objectors to wars?

Here is an example of a Christian being a concientious objector during war time.

Hacksaw Ridge:

You can rent through Itunes or YouTube:
‎Hacksaw Ridge on iTunes
Hacksaw Ridge on YouTube
(Note: Please keep in mind that while I do enjoy this film, and I love how they promote Christ's New Testament teaching on Non-Resistance, I do not agree with the SDA church).

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
You challenged my view that Matthew 19:9 is a non-explicit command. That is what I was saying.

Without going back & rereading, I don't think I challenged the possible implication (non-explicit) of command. I mainly challenged (your word) the structure & content of your interpreted [implied] command. I simply saw some ambiguities in the content of your restatement and clarified how and why I saw it differently.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

GDL said:
You left out here the rest of what I said, that drew the applicable and actual comparison to you based upon what you said.

I re-read what you wrote and it still does not undo you calling me a Christ denier. Care to explain it in simple terms in how I am not in the arena of Christ deniers (Which seems to be what you were saying in the post)?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

GDL said:
Without going back & rereading, I don't think I challenged an the possible implication (non-explicit) of command. I mainly challenged (your word) the structure & content of your interpreted [implied] command. I simply saw some ambiguities in the content of your restatement and clarified how and why I saw it differently.

It just appears like any commands I bring up in the New Testament, you appear to just disagree with them or you are seeking to criticize them. I was hoping for a more of a fruitful endeavor and not an attack on everything I say with God's Word involving God's NT Commands. But we can just agree to disagree and move on. I will comment on the following NT commands on my own without your continual critical input.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34)

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
A new commandment I give unto you, That you love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. (John 13:34)

I think this is a great commandment to do a deeper study on. In what ways can we see in Scripture in how Jesus loved His disciples? We know one of these ways is mentioned in the nearby context (Which is another NT Command).

You ought to wash one another's feet. I have given you an example that you should do as I have done to you (John 13:14-15).

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I mention this because Jesus implies in his speech to Nicodemus that he should have known about being born again.

I'm not much for most dramatizations. I see Jesus basically setting him up for and controlling this this discussion, and also bracing him for his lack of understanding due to his position in Israel.

Bible Highlighter said:
We must be born again of water and we must be born again the Spirit.
How do you understand being born again of water?

Would rather not go into the water issue too deeply (no pun intended) right now. Late & about to cease. I still find the connection to Ezekial 36:25-27 interesting, especially with the result that is stated re: obedience in 36:27.

Bible Highlighter said:
I believe that we must have obedience as a part of our faith and salvation after we are saved by believing in the gospel as per 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

OK. Pretty similar to the view of some others.

I see Paul's more complete teaching of the Good News in Acts 13:16-42 and 1Cor15 as a reminder of what he had previously taught them re: resurrection as he details to be important in the rest of 1Cor15 and why.

I see the foundation of Paul's Gospel to be clearly stated from 1Cor3 (the only foundation) - Acts18:5 The Christ! Jesus! - to Acts13 and importantly including his pointing back to Ps2 in Acts13:33. This was the main issue (and actually still is) - Jesus is the Christ (YHWH's anointed per Ps2) and the Christ is the ruler of the earth (and beyond) (thus the obedience to Him because of who He is). His resurrection is some of the proof of His being the Christ (as Paul discusses in part in 1Cor15).

Re: Faith & Obedience: I see them as 2 sides of the same coin (so to speak). I don't think you have one without the other. I can show this from different angles, but I'll simply say for this evening: In 1 John 3:23 we're commanded to believe on the name of God's Son, Jesus Christ. Since we're commanded to believe, then our belief is also obedience to God's command. Faith and obedience are basically simultaneous and inextricably connected here. We start out in faith-obedience and we begin the process of being developed in faith-obedience.

This is one of the reasons I find so interesting the Ez36 new heart and His Spirit in us (rebirth - water & Spirit), so we will obey Him.

GDL · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Here is an example of a Christian being concientious objector during war time.

Movies have been where I would go to shut down the brain. Saw this when it was released and enjoyed it. Didn't agree with the non-violence thinking, but certainly was a great story of someone who lived his faith as it was and did something special with it. The objectors I mainly think of I knew from the 60's and were nothing like him.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 28, 2020

GDL said:
Movies have been where I would go to shut down the brain. Saw this when it was released and enjoyed it. Didn't agree with the non-violence thinking, but certainly was a great story of someone who lived his faith as it was and did something special with it. The objectors I mainly think of I knew from the 60's and were nothing like him.

For my biblical defense of New Testament Teaching on Non-Resistance, check out this thread here:

Nonresistance as Taught in the New Testament is Moral and Good.

For a list of my top favorite Christian movies, check out these following threads:

What Christian Movies Do You Find To Be The Most Rewatchable?

Excellent Christian Films That I Can Only Watch on Rare Occasion.

RDKirk · Dec 28, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Thanks. You beat me to it. I was going to quote this verse to him.

I used to hold to this interpretation. I think Paul here is simply saying that the Lord did not directly tell him, but Paul is still offering authorative Scriptural advice (inspired by God). This part of his words are still a part of authoritative Scripture inspired by God (See: 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

Yes. In one case Paul is able to quote Jesus directly. In the other case, he can't quote Jesus, but he does maintain that his direction is yet from the Lord through the Holy Spirit.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 29, 2020

I like this NT command:

Save yourselves from this corrupt generation (Acts of the Apostles 2:40).

Many think that God does all the saving by our having a belief alone on Jesus.
But we are told to save ourselves from this corrupt generation. There are many sins that infect this generation that we as believers need to save ourselves from. The answer and solution is seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ, and by receiving the power of the Holy Spirit. The answer is in asking God for help in overcoming. We are to do our part, and God will do His part to help us.

GDL · Dec 29, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Save yourselves from this corrupt generation (Acts of the Apostles 2:40)

Some translate this as "save yourselves" and some to remain more literal translate it as "be saved."

It's what's called a passive imperative, which is an interesting structure, because as an imperative it's commanding their volition to make a choice, and as a passive imperative, it's commanding them to receive the action - in this case, "be saved."

In the context Peter has commanded them in: NET Acts 2:38 Peter said to them, "Repent, and each one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

So the active command here was to repent and then another passive command was given: "be baptized upon the name of Jesus Christ..." It's a little tricky to be translating the passive command in 2:40 as "save yourselves" and translating the same structure of passive command in 2:38 as "be baptized" (instead of "baptize yourselves," which would be consistent with "save yourselves," but would make no sense).

I suppose those who translate 2:40 as "save yourselves" are attempting to point back to what needs to be actively done in order to obey this command - which in context would be to repent and then [passive] be baptized. It can be acceptable to translate 2:40 as "save yourselves," but literally, it's "be saved," and there are other acceptable options, which would draw out the volition of the imperative, while maintaining the passive - for example: "allow/permit yourselves to be saved" - "repent and be/allow yourselves to be baptized...

BH's point of our collaborative part in our salvation IMO is a very good one that many do not like (although BH seems to be addressing the believer's efforts and not the unbeliever's efforts in the context of Acts2:40). Works-salvation arguments IMO have gone too far. Acts 2:40 is a command to unbelievers to be saved, so at minimum one needed to obey to be saved pursuant to this verse in this context. Also in this context, one also needed to obey the command to repent and be baptized to be saved. By translating this as "save yourselves" such translators drew out the involvement/participation of individuals in their salvation.

Lets talk about the New Testament commandments (No Sabbath Talk Please)...

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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