What does it take to keep the Sabbath?

DamianWarS said:

Is there more to keeping the Sabbath then going to church? How does this fit in with instruction from the law?

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There is this #10 and this #4

DamianWarS said:

Is there more to keeping the Sabbath then going to church? How does this fit in with instruction from the law?

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The instruction is to rest and keep His day Holy. Like I stated previously, attending church, reading the Bible, praying, Bible studies, nature walks, fellowship, and doing good is all inline with keeping His Sabbath day Holy. Basically you put away all secular activities and devote the day to Him.

Der Alte said:

"The" Sabbath was given specifically to the physical descendants of the patriarch Israel.

Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.​

Jesus is our Sabbath.

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.​

Jesus is our firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15:20
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:​

All of that is just a shadow.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.​

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God's holy days are foreshadows that testify about who He is and about His plan of redemption. The light of Christ brings full substance to the foreshadows, so that we can fully see what God is teaching us through them, which make them all the more important to continue to observe in remembrance of Christ. For example, in 1 Corinthians 5:6-8, Paul spoke in regard to how Passover foreshadowed Christ by drawing the connection of him being our Passover Lamb, however, instead of concluding that we no longer need to bother with Passover, he concluded that we should therefore continue to keep the feast. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, so by keeping the Sabbath holy we are testifying about who he is and that there is a Creator who acts to free His people out of bondage. So to keep God's holy days is to testify that what they say about God is true, while refusing to keep God's holy days is testifying that what they say about God is false. The law was given to Israel in order to equip Israel to testify about God (Deuteronomy 4:5-8). There is not much sense in a Gentile rejecting the light of God's word because it was given to Israel to teach to them instead of being directly given to them. It is not just Israel, but all followers of God who should live in a way that testifies about Him instead of a way that bears false witness against Him.

DamianWarS said:

So if the tractor was automated it would be fine? Or does our ambitions to consume and produce factor in on what should be conducted on the Sabbath (should they too be rested)? (even if a machine is doing the work)

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If someone owned a hydro-electric dam and water is flowing down the pipes driving the turbines so that person is making money because electricity gets sold on the Sabbath just as on any other day? Something like that?

I guess that is ok - but isn't this a bit far out there in the weeds?

Even in that case I would presume their sales and business offices are closed on the Sabbath and the minimum human requirement is all that is left for that day to make sure nothing bad happens. But of course emergency help/support etc everything has to be covered. There are people on life-support machines that need electricity.

DamianWarS said:

I do not keep the letter of the 4th commandment. I grew up in an evangelical church and was always taught Sunday was the Sabbath and to keep the Sabbath essentially looked like not working and going to church (but there was a lot of exceptions to this) As I grew older and engaged with other Christians from other backgrounds I discovered others understand the Sabbath differently and practised it differently. Over time, however, through more interactions and studying the law, it seemed as though very little actually kept the Sabbath according to the letter of the law regardless of what their traditions of the Sabbath were and everyone had compromises.

This has caused me to ask are we meant to keep the letter of the 4th commandment (because it seemed to me no one was actually keeping it) and I have eventually come to a resolve, over many years, that although striving to keep the Sabbath is a good thing the Sabbath we receive can only be found in Christ, not through a day. This has resulted in me abandoning the pursuit of keeping the letter of the 4th commandment and one of the main reasons for doing so is on top of scriptural support I think it cannot be kept according to our human limits.

I like to think the Sabbath is the riddle of the 10 commandments that appears as a forever struggle of what it takes to keep something that seems unkeepable. After all, doesn't the logic of the Sabbath go to our very breath and beating heart as work? The other 9 are like checkboxes and easy (at least to understand) and although Jesus challenges this in Mat 5 the letter of the law seems straightforward enough if we are to take it in isolation. To me, the answer to the riddle of the 4th points to Christ where he is our Sabbath rest who not only kept the expectation of the Sabbath but also kept the Nth degree where he lay to rest on the Sabbath without a beating heart and without a breath and resurrected the next day.

So I wish to have an honest discussion of what does it really take to keep the Sabbath and do we do a good job at interpreting the law into a modern-day context? It probably is a good idea to pick up a bible and read what the law actually says to see if your tradition follows it. If you make compromises or find yourself saying these parts don't apply to me I am curious to know why it is different for you and why you may think you still keep the Sabbath (if in fact, you think that)

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The difference between the following the spirit of the law or the letter of the law is not in regard to following different sets of laws, but in regard to the manner in which someone obeys a law according it its intent or exactly how a law is written without regard to its intent. Keeping God's law according to the letter undermines both the intent of what God commanded and why He commanded it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to God's law.

The Israelites were given laws for what to do in the promised land before they had entered it. When the Israelites were in exile in Babylon, the conditions for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which required them to have access to a temple that they didn't have access to while they were in exile, so if there are aspects of God's law that can't currently be obeyed, such as the command to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10), then we should nevertheless be faithful to obey as much as is applicable to us.

Jesus is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3) and what that looked like was a life lived in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law, so he is the fulness of everything that the Mosaic Law was give testify about who God is (John 5:39). The Mosaic Law is spiritual in that it has always been intended to teach us deeper spiritual principles of which the listed laws are just examples, and which are aspects of God's nature. For example, God's righteous laws teach us how to testify about His righteousness, so correctly understanding that principle leads us to live in a way that includes taking actions that are examples of that principle in accordance with what the Mosaic Law instructions. So keeping the 7th day holy an example of expressing Christ's nature and there is not something that we can receive that can only be found in Christ that is apart from following examples that express who he is, which is why those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6).

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, the Mosaic Law is not too difficult to keep, and in 1 John 5:3, to love God is to keep His commandments, which are no burdensome, so interpreting what the law requires us to do should not be done in a way that makes out to be too difficult and burdensome to keep. The Sabbath prohibits creative work, not breathing or pumping blood.

Der Alte said:

"The" Sabbath was given specifically to the physical descendants of the patriarch Israel.

Exodus 31:16
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
Leviticus 24:8
8 Every sabbath he shall set it in order before the LORD continually, being taken from the children of Israel by an everlasting covenant.​

Jesus is our Sabbath.

Matthew 11:28
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.​

Jesus is our firstfruits.

1 Corinthians 15:20
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1 Corinthians 15:23
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.​

Jesus is our Passover.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:​

All of that is just a shadow.

Colossians 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.​

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1. the New Covenant was given specifically to "the house of Israel and the house of Judah" Jer 31:31-34... and is unchanged in the NT - Heb 8:6-12.
2. "Christ is the Sabbath" is not a text in the Bible.
3. Matt 11:28 is part of the pre-cross system of the Gospel and is unchanged from OT to NT.
4. Gal 1:6-9 only one Gospel - and that Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8

DamianWarS said:

I do not keep the letter of the 4th commandment. I grew up in an evangelical church and was always taught Sunday was the Sabbath and to keep the Sabbath essentially looked like not working and going to church (but there was a lot of exceptions to this) As I grew older and engaged with other Christians from other backgrounds I discovered others understand the Sabbath differently and practised it differently. Over time, however, through more interactions and studying the law, it seemed as though very little actually kept the Sabbath according to the letter of the law regardless of what their traditions of the Sabbath were and everyone had compromises.

This has caused me to ask are we meant to keep the letter of the 4th commandment (because it seemed to me no one was actually keeping it) and I have eventually come to a resolve, over many years, that although striving to keep the Sabbath is a good thing the Sabbath we receive can only be found in Christ, not through a day. This has resulted in me abandoning the pursuit of keeping the letter of the 4th commandment and one of the main reasons for doing so is on top of scriptural support I think it cannot be kept according to our human limits.

I like to think the Sabbath is the riddle of the 10 commandments that appears as a forever struggle of what it takes to keep something that seems unkeepable. After all, doesn't the logic of the Sabbath go to our very breath and beating heart as work? The other 9 are like checkboxes and easy (at least to understand) and although Jesus challenges this in Mat 5 the letter of the law seems straightforward enough if we are to take it in isolation. To me, the answer to the riddle of the 4th points to Christ where he is our Sabbath rest who not only kept the expectation of the Sabbath but also kept the Nth degree where he lay to rest on the Sabbath without a beating heart and without a breath and resurrected the next day.

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The Spirit of the law simply means how the law is meant to be kept from the heart through love *Hebrews 8:10-12. No one keeps the Spirit of the law by breaking the law *1 John 2:3-4 and not believing and following what God's word says. The same as no one keeps the Spirit of the law without keeping the letter of the law as the letter of the law outlines how the law is kept. It is through our believing and following the letter through faith because we love God that the law is fulfilled in Spirit *Romans 13:8-10; as God's Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God according to the scriptures in John 6:63 that we are saved by *John 17:17; John 8:31-36; Ephesians 1:13. God's Spirit therefore works through the Word of God (letter) as we believe and follow it *1 John 5:4; Ephesians 2:8-9; Philippians 2:13 and it is as we believe and follow Gods' Word (revealed in the letter) that brings God's salvation *John 17:17. It is faith in Gods' Word that brings the Spirit *Ephesians 1:13. No one therefore has Gods Spirit or can claim to have God's spirit while breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments or not believing and following God's Word according to the scriptures *1 John 3:6-10; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 14:23. The letter of the law is all there is before faith. It is God's Word apart from faith telling us the Word of God. Therefore the letter without faith are only Words without the Spirit. According to the scriptures the Word of God is living because it is alive in those who have believe it *Hebrews 4:12. So without faith it is impossible to please God *Hebrews 11:6 and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *Romans 14:23. God's Spirit works through God's Word not outside of God's Word as we believe and follow it *Ephesians 1:13; 2:8-9 according to the scriptures. The role of the Spirit is to do God's Work in those who believe and follow Gods' Word *Philippians 2:13; Ephesians 1:13

DamianWarS said:

So I wish to have an honest discussion of what does it really take to keep the Sabbath and do we do a good job at interpreting the law into a modern-day context? It probably is a good idea to pick up a bible and read what the law actually says to see if your tradition follows it. If you make compromises or find yourself saying these parts don't apply to me I am curious to know why it is different for you and why you may think you still keep the Sabbath (if in fact, you think that)

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HOW DO WE KEEP THE SABBATH?

WHAT DOES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT SAY?

EXODUS 20:8-11
[8], Remember the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> Because God made it Holy for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day) [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT.

WHAT DAY IS GOD'S SABBATH?

v10 The SEVENTH DAY of the week. (Saturday)

WHEN DOES THE SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK START?

GENESIS 1:4-5
[4], And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. [5], And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening (darkness) and the morning (daylight) were the first day.

A day in God's time is the night (darkness) and the light make up one day. The DAY in God's WORD starts at SUNSET and ends the following SUNSET. So God's 4th Commandment Sabbath would start Friday at SUNSET and end Saturday at SUNSET.

ALL UNNECESSARY WORK TO BE DONE BEFORE FRIDAY SUNSET

EXODUS 16:22-23
[22], And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. [23], And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake that which you will bake to day, and seethe that you will seethe; and that which remains over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.

MARK 15:42, And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath

The preparation day is the 6th day of the week. This includes preparing to stop all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week.

IT IS LAWFUL TO DO GOOD ON THE SABBATH?

MATTHEW 12:5-12
[5], Or have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
[6], But I say to you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
[7], But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless.
[8], For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day
[9], And when he was departed from there, he went into their synagogue:
[10], And, behold, there was a man who had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
[11], And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
[12], How much then is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

MARK 2:27, And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath

It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

WHAT IS LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

1. Remembering the creator and his creation (Exod 20:8-11)
2. Rest from all unnecessary work (Ecodus 20:10-11)
3. Doing good (Matt 12:12)
4. Prayer (Acts 16:13; Matt 21:13)
5. Worship the creator (Isaiah 58:13-14; Ex 34:14; 1KING 9:6; Rev 14:6-12)

Song, praise, bible study, helping others, preaching the gospel, resting, prayer, seeking God, remembering the creator and his creation. Walking in nature, going to church with like minded believers. (too many scriptures)

WHAT IS NOT LAWFUL ON GOD'S SABBATH?

WORK; all business and secular work as well as any domestic work; cooking, cleaning; shopping, buying and selling that can be done on any other day of the week and anything to do with work (Exodus 20:8-11; Ex 16:22-23; Matt 21:13).

.............

There is no purpose in FOLLOWING any of God's Laws including the SABBATH if it is NOT done through FAITH that works by LOVE because it is ONLY as GOD writes his LAW to LOVE then we can take up our beds to follow him. LOVE is the fulfilling of God's Law in those who BELIEVE (Romans 13:8-10)

Hope this is helpful

Hi @DamianWarS

Thanks for reading my response and replying. Please let me respond with my views to your questions.

DamianWarS said:

But this turns into a different sort of question that if doing good is lawful should we not be searching to do good on the Sabbath even if it causes us to violate the letter of the law?

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No, I don't think we should. "Business as usual", for want of a better phrase, should be to rest.

In the stories we read of the Messiah on the Sabbath, He was relaxing or going to synagogue and was confronted by a situation that He could do something about. It was in His power to bless someone in His vicinity.

Whilst enjoying the Sabbath, most times I get to relax but sometimes I'm faced with a situation that I can do something about and it cannot wait until Sunday. In such a scenario, where I don't personally benefit but get to bless another in need, then I choose bless. I don't believe that violates the Sabbath whatsoever. Love comes first.

Conversely, if I see someone in need on the Sabbath and I turn a blind eye, then all my Sabbath keeping has become worthless and in fact becomes a snare for me - showing I don't understand the heart of Torah. Love comes first, always. But "business as usual" on the Sabbath should be rest and recuperation.

DamianWarS said:

We know saving sheep and healing hands are good but what else is good? Is helping my neighbour paint his house on the Sabbath good or is that too far?

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I think donating to a cause (even if it is not urgent for the Sabbath) is doing good and is not purchasing or selling. I think taking time to counsel someone or listen to another's heart is doing good, even it it may seem as work. I think we must think contextually. Consider this example:

You go out for the afternoon and order your son to stay indoors and not to venture out. However, when you return, you find him on the pavement in front of your house, comforting another child who fell off his bike and giving him water to drink. Would you scold him? (You'd be in your right to according to your law.)

Flip the example around - you come home and find your son just watching the child who fell off his bike crying and pleading for a drink, yet your son just watches idly from the window. Are you proud of your son for obeying the rules over empathy? (By your law he remains blameless.)

The context is important when have we follow the commandments as sons of Yahweh, and not servants of the Law. This is why the Holy Spirit is our guide to lead us in such matters of walking in the Law within the context of any given situation - providing we know and respect the Father Law as the ultimate guidelines.

We should be very concerned if we think it's the "Holy Spirit" that is guiding us away from the Sabbath and Torah, as this is contradicts Scripture and is the path that the Jews took leading up to the Babylonian Exile.

Now, as to helping a neighbour paint his house. I would say that would be a violation of Sabbath as it's proper work and nothing trivial. You can help him throughout the week and even after Saturday evening. But if his house isn't painted on the Sabbath it's unlikely his health, life or family will suffer. Therefore, in such an instance, I would say "Sorry, today's the Sabbath. But I'm free tomorrow?" Who knows, it may even lead into witnessing about the gospel to him with that response.

Love & Shalom

DamianWarS said:

What is secular work? And how does it differ from holy work? I, myself, don't see a divide.

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There is nothing wrong with doing God's work *Matthew 12:1-12. Secular work is doing our own work that is not God's work that can be done any other day of the week

DamianWarS said:

I'm still not following and you've still made no definition of "God's work" and "secular work". I still fail to see a divide. The things I do (whatever they are) are acts of worship towards God. It's not a light switch for me where I can turn off God's work. I have no definition of my "own work" and I've always approached it as doing God's work.

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Your question was "what is secular work and how does that differ from holy work?" Now your changing the question. The definition of secular work was provided in the post you are quoting from where I said secular work is doing our own work that is not God's work that can be done any other day of the week. I provided a scriptural definition of God's work in Matthew 12:1-12. Did you read it? Gods work is doing good on the Sabbath and sharing his Word and ministering to others and believing and following what God's word says. Not very hard. Most of this is pretty clearly provided in the scriptures already posted in post # 33 linked. Not sure how you missed the above to be honest. Hope this was more helpful.

DamianWarS said:

So keep the spirit of the law but not the letter... You've yet to say what that looks like. The OP is about keeping the letter of the law not nessarily about how you keep it or the reasons why you keep it. If you don't keep the letter of the law then that's fine, but how does one keep the letter of the law or in your opinion does keeping the letter of the law violate the letter of the law? You wrote a whole lot but left us with no idea what actually needs to be done to keep the law.

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The distinction between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law is not in regard to following different sets of laws, but in regard to the manner in which someone obeys a law without regard to the intent behind it. For example:

Leviticus 19:12 “‘Do not swear falsely by my name and so profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.

Someone who was focused on obeying the spirit of this law would understand that its intent is for us not to swear falsely, whereas someone who was focused on obeying the letter of this law exactly how it was written would understand that we can swear falsely just as long as we don't do so in God's name, which incidentally is what Jesus was criticizing the Pharisees for doing in Matthew 5:33-37. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that justice, mercy, and faithfulness are weightier matters of the law, so the Mosaic Law is intended to teach us how to express God's character traits. So obeying the Mosaic Law according to the letter undermines both the intent of what God has commanded His followers to do and why He has commanded us to do it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it.