Trump threatens to veto Stimulus Package

disciple Clint said:

I do not care what source you want to use but you are not going to control what sources I use. Now if you can rebut the article I posted do it.

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I've already rebutted the article you used. It is from a biased source and therefore, according to rules of debate, it is useless.

Archivist said:

I've already rebutted the article you used. It is from a biased source and therefore, according to rules of debate, it is useless.

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I accept your inability to refute it.

disciple Clint said:

let me block this out for you, The House put together the proposal, it then went to the Senate, it then when to the President. That is typically the way things work, although sometimes the Senate provides the initial proposal, the House and the Senate are the Legislative branch, they write bills and laws, the President is the Executive branch, he approves or vetoes the proposals of the Legislative branch. I think this is all covered in high school civics class.

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Sometimes the Senate provides the initial bill? Wrong. All bills raising revenue must start in the House (Article I, Section 7, Clause 1). That should have been covered in your high school civics class. Perhaps you weren't paying attention that day.

disciple Clint said:

I accept your inability to refute it.

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I have refuted it. The article is from a biased source and is, therefore, useless. Now we can keep going back and forth on this all day, but you've already lost.

Archivist said:

I have refuted it. The article is from a biased source and is, therefore, useless. Now we can keep going back and forth on this all day, but you've already lost.

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That is such an unreasonable claim, based on your logic all anyone has to do is say "I find your source biased" and all of a sudden they win the debate, come on get serious, if you want to refute my evidence put some effort into it and see if you can find evidence that supports your position, Stop with a ridiculous claim that you are an authority on what is or is not an acceptable source.

Trump signed the stimulus package overnight. Sadly thanks to Trump's delay two pandemic-related unemployment program lapsed over the weekend so payments will be delayed.

Trump Signs Covid-19 Aid Package (msn.com)

disciple Clint said:

That is such an unreasonable claim, based on your logic all anyone has to do is say "I find your source biased" and all of a sudden they win the debate, come on get serious, if you want to refute my evidence put some effort into it and see if you can find evidence that supports your position, Stop with a ridiculous claim that you are an authority on what is or is not an acceptable source.

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Anyone with any knowledge of government would know that a news release from Mitch McConnell is a biased source when discussing the Democratic leadership, so I dismiss what you provided. It isn't a ridiculous claim, it is a basic rule of debate. Again, this can go on all day so I will no longer respond to your posts on the matter. You lost.

Archivist said:

Anyone with any knowledge of government would know that a news release from Mitch McConnell is a biased source when discussing the Democratic leadership, so I dismiss what you provided. It isn't a ridiculous claim, it is a basic rule of debate. Again, this can go on all day so I will no longer respond to your posts on the matter. You lost.

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I doubt that I lost but you didn't even try and is far worse than any loss.

Archivist said:

Yup. I honestly don't know what Trump is thinking or even if he is thinking.

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He’s thinking the blatantly obvious common sense point that he rejects what should have been a few pages in a bill specifically for the purpose of domestic COVID19 relief, being turned into a five thousand page monstrosity of pork and funding having nothing to do with America, and that doesn’t meet its purpose of enough funding for Americans, but gives a minuscule 600 dollars.

All this is so incredibly obvious that it shouldn’t need explanation.

chad kincham said:

He’s thinking the blatantly obvious common sense point that he rejects what should have been a few pages in a bill specifically for the purpose of domestic COVID19 relief, being turned into a five thousand page monstrosity of pork and funding having nothing to do with America, and that doesn’t meet its purpose of enough funding for Americans, but gives a minuscule 600 dollars.

All this is so incredibly obvious that it shouldn’t need explanation.

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The President asked for that “monstrosity of pork.” That has been said numerous times in this thread, you can go read the evidence that has been posted. Yes the $600 is minuscule, but that is what the Republicans were willing to include and what Trump’s Treasury Secretary specifically wanted. The Democrats in the House wanted the checks to be bigger.

chad kincham said:

He’s thinking the blatantly obvious common sense point that he rejects what should have been a few pages in a bill specifically for the purpose of domestic COVID19 relief, being turned into a five thousand page monstrosity of pork and funding having nothing to do with America, and that doesn’t meet its purpose of enough funding for Americans, but gives a minuscule 600 dollars.

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He rejects and signs it anyway. Got to admire man of principle.

A report from CNN suggests that there may be an agreement to pass further legislation on the subject.

Archivist said:

Trump was not involved in the negotiations, but his Treasury Secretary, Steven Mnuchin, was a proponent of the stimulus checks worth $600 per person. If Trump disagreed with that amount he should have intervened.

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Okay it's nice to know that Trump was not involved. And apparently he doesn't like the deal. Maybe he should have been involved. But that doesn't give the Democrats it Republicans a pass on this. We all KNOW THEY are the ones that are at fault for this bill. It's not Trump. Congress has to pass the bill. It all is in their shoulders. As some are find if saying, Trump is not an king. He doesn't get to do whatever he wants. Bills originate in Congress. This mess rests on their shoulders.

Sparagmos said:

Thank you for posting this. I'm kind of astounded right now that people on this thread are still ignorant of the fact that Trump is disputing items that he proposed, officially, in writing. The cognitive dissonance is scary.

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Like I said before, he's entitled to change his mind. I will say this, he should have told them he was changing his mind. I have no idea if he did or not. But IF he said he wanted these things in the bill in order for him to sign it, and then changed his mind he should have said so. Do we have any evidence that he told them and they ignored it?

rjs330 said:

We all KNOW THEY are the ones that are at fault for this bill. It's not Trump.

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We know this because it is in capital letters ? Like TRUMP WON and STOP THE STEAL.

Something doesn’t become reality just because it is written in caps.

Archivist said:

Anyone with any knowledge of government would know that a news release from Mitch McConnell is a biased source when discussing the Democratic leadership, so I dismiss what you provided. It isn't a ridiculous claim, it is a basic rule of debate. Again, this can go on all day so I will no longer respond to your posts on the matter. You lost.

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Do you then ignore anything put out by Pelosi or any other Democrat?

disciple Clint said:

let me block this out for you, The House put together the proposal, it then went to the Senate, it then when to the President. That is typically the way things work, although sometimes the Senate provides the initial proposal, the House and the Senate are the Legislative branch, they write bills and laws, the President is the Executive branch, he approves or vetoes the proposals of the Legislative branch. I think this is all covered in high school civics class.

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So you’re saying the budget proposal the president sent up to Congress… Proposals that presidents send to Congress every year, because, like any member of congress or senate, presidents also have the ability to write bills, propose and submit legislation for congress to consider, as they do, all the time, which Im not sure you learned in high school civics is the case.. you’re saying the presidents budget proposal was not his? Did not originate from his desk? The one he signed and submitted and sent to congress that said it reflected his priorities... the one congress approved and sent back to him, and he just signed into law,... you’re saying that was not his proposal?

I posted a couple links to it earlier in the thread, right to the White House.gov website. It’s got his name on it. He sent it to Congress back in February. You know this right?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

We know this because it is in capital letters ? Like TRUMP WON and STOP THE STEAL.

Something doesn’t become reality just because it is written in caps.

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Are you missing the part where all spending bills start and must be passed by the House? And then they go to the Senate for approval? BEFORE they reach the president's desk? Trump didn't write the bill. Congress did. So THEY are at fault here.

rjs330 said:

Okay it's nice to know that Trump was not involved. And apparently he doesn't like the deal. Maybe he should have been involved. But that doesn't give the Democrats it Republicans a pass on this. We all KNOW THEY are the ones that are at fault for this bill. It's not Trump. Congress has to pass the bill. It all is in their shoulders. As some are find if saying, Trump is not an king. He doesn't get to do whatever he wants. Bills originate in Congress. This mess rests on their shoulders.

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But Trump was involved. His administration submitted the budget. He is the one in charge. His responsibility as to what was in the budget proposal.

rjs330 said:

Do you then ignore anything put out by Pelosi or any other Democrat?

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No, I just recognize them as being biased. Usually what I do when I cite what a biased source is to cite a source of the other side to establish balance.