The Ravi Zacharias scandal and....his books on my shelves.

I'm on the fence on this one.

On the one hand... the works stand on their own. Are they good and useful? Then why lose that benefit by tossing them?

On the other hand... having those books can seem to be an endorsement of the author. (Note: I'm the sort of person whose theological bookshelf is regularly browsed by others, and those who look to me for guidance. This may hold less weight if nobody else ever sees your bookshelf).

And depending what he did (on which I am not clear) that might be a step too far for me.

For example, if my most favourite Christian author was tomorrow discovered to be sexually abusing kids... all those books come off my shelves. No question. I'm not prepared to be seen as supporting or excusing paedophilia, even by implication.

But if the offence is of a less serious degree, then the question to me becomes, do I think it so fundamentally compromises his witness, or is it more of a "meh, everyone's human" kind of issue? After all, none of us can claim to be perfect!

I've never really had to ask myself exactly where the line is on that one, for myself. But I think that's where the nub of the issue would be, for me.

Carl Emerson said:

If we take the proposed pattern seriously His Love covers the cracks... but we dont.

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Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. —Ecclesiastes 7:20

Did it prevent Peter's denial or Judas's betrayal? No. We must choose obedience, love, togetherness, etc. And even so, we'll sin.

Do Christians accept every believer? No.
Would Christians welcome a prominent believer? Some will and some won't.

Sometimes the truth hurts.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

I've attended three churches with well-known pastors. In my experience, there's a lot of fandom in Christian circles. They put them on a pedestal and hang on every word. I've heard similar rhapsodizing about other pastors and teachers. Two of the churches held popular events that attracted big names.

I never understood it and told someone he's just a man. While I grasp the position, I spent a lot of time with priests behind the scenes growing up. The allure isn't there. They're just like you and I.

Prominent Christians are sinners too. But many forget that.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

The cult of personality is a very, very dangerous thing.

Human loyalty corrodes truth and leads to compromise.

bèlla said:

Did it prevent Peter's denial or Judas's betrayal? No. We must choose obedience, love, togetherness, etc. And even so, we'll sin.

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That was before the Body of Christ was born...

Carl Emerson said:

That was before the Body of Christ was born...

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If you believe the body can be perfect you're welcome to that perspective. But human frailty tells me otherwise. You'll always have sin, mistakes, grievances, and so on. No two people have the same makeup, problems, or experiences. That impacts your walk.

Don't take my word for it. Ask the question and let others weigh in. Is perfection possible in this moment? See what they say.

Yours in His Service,

~bella

2PhiloVoid said:

For those of you who may not have heard, Ravi Zacharias was a well-known Christian Evangelical apologist who passed away several months ago. Over the years I've heard Ravi on the radio maybe a dozen times, defending the Christian faith and firmly refuting non-believers. And while he wasn't my favorite apologist nor one who was central to the formation of my own Christian beliefs, I have bought a few books here and there that bear his name.

Now, with the allegations that have come to light after Ravi's death (as briefly reviewed in the apologetics video below from Christian youtuber, Whaddo You Meme??) I have to ask: What should I do with the 4 or 5 Christian apologetics books by Ravi Zacharias that sit on my shelf? Should I toss them? What would you do with them? And what should we as Christians learn from this scandal?

Youtuber: Whaddo You Meme?? - Date Video Posted: Dec 23, 2020, Video length: 6 minutes, 7 seconds.

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I don't know who this guy was, nor what the scandal is.
But if his books have helped you, taught you about the faith or helped you to explain the faith to non Christians, why not keep them?
Just because he may have sinned, or been involved in something unsavoury, it doesn't change the facts of his teachings, nor that you find/found the books to be helpful.

If we disassociated ourselves from everyone who sinned and chucked out/disregarded their writings, we'd have to tear the Psalms out of our Bibles and ignore anything we learned from the lives of Moses, Jonah, Peter, Paul and other Christian leaders throughout history.

Depends on the reason you got the books in the first place.

Did you buy them to put them on the shelf and impress people with the names of authors and books you bought.

Or

Did you buy them for the wisdom inside them?

If you bought them for the image people would have of you thinking you had read it. Then yes, get rid of them.

If you bought them for the wisdom inside them, read them, keep them... and IF anyone asks... remind them the Bible was written by people guilty of plenty as well... including murder.

Truth and wisdom doesnt change just because you may not like the hand that wrote them once everything about them is revealed.

2PhiloVoid said:

What should I do with the 4 or 5 Christian apologetics books by Ravi Zacharias that sit on my shelf? Should I toss them? What would you do with them?

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I don’t know why you would throw the books away unless you thought his arguments were not valueable?? If you thought his arguments were valueable before the accusations, then keep the books.

2PhiloVoid said:

And what should we as Christians learn from this scandal

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1). It’s not fair to assume a person is guilty just because they are accused. Even if they are convicted of guilt in a court, that doesn’t mean they are guilty of the crime. Remember we are guilty. 2). The dangers of gossip. Speaking without having all the facts, context or knowledge. 3). Don’t put people on a pedestal. We are all bad and good at the same time. There’s no such thing as good guys and bad guys.
Maybe that??
I don’t know what the scandal is, but my first instinct is to withhold judgement, wait, listen.

You can keep the books; and it is likely they are good and true and of benefit to read. Just put this one on the shelf next to them, which is equally good and true and of benefit to read.

“You start a question, and it's like starting a stone. You sit quietly on the top of a hill; and away the stone goes, starting others...”

“I learned to recognise the thorough and primitive duality of man; I saw that, of the two natures that contended in the field of my consciousness, even if I could rightly be said to be either, it was only because I was radically both.”

“I sat in the sun on a bench; the animal within me licking the chops of memory; the spiritual side a little drowsed, promising subsequent penitence, but not yet moved to begin.”

“Some day...after I am dead, you may perhaps come to learn the right and wrong of this. I cannot tell you.”

The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde Quotes by Robert Louis Stevenson

2PhiloVoid said:

For those of you who may not have heard, Ravi Zacharias was a well-known Christian Evangelical apologist who passed away several months ago. Over the years I've heard Ravi on the radio maybe a dozen times, defending the Christian faith and firmly refuting non-believers. And while he wasn't my favorite apologist nor one who was central to the formation of my own Christian beliefs, I have bought a few books here and there that bear his name.

Now, with the allegations that have come to light after Ravi's death (as briefly reviewed in the apologetics video below from Christian youtuber, Whaddo You Meme??) I have to ask: What should I do with the 4 or 5 Christian apologetics books by Ravi Zacharias that sit on my shelf? Should I toss them? What would you do with them? And what should we as Christians learn from this scandal?

Youtuber: Whaddo You Meme?? - Date Video Posted: Dec 23, 2020, Video length: 6 minutes, 7 seconds.

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I’m not familiar with the man or his books. Something that I firmly believe is that Christ must open our eyes to The Word.

2PhiloVoid said:

For those of you who may not have heard, Ravi Zacharias was a well-known Christian Evangelical apologist who passed away several months ago. Over the years I've heard Ravi on the radio maybe a dozen times, defending the Christian faith and firmly refuting non-believers. And while he wasn't my favorite apologist nor one who was central to the formation of my own Christian beliefs, I have bought a few books here and there that bear his name.

Now, with the allegations that have come to light after Ravi's death (as briefly reviewed in the apologetics video below from Christian youtuber, Whaddo You Meme??) I have to ask: What should I do with the 4 or 5 Christian apologetics books by Ravi Zacharias that sit on my shelf? Should I toss them? What would you do with them? And what should we as Christians learn from this scandal?

Youtuber: Whaddo You Meme?? - Date Video Posted: Dec 23, 2020, Video length: 6 minutes, 7 seconds.

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I’m not going to spend 38 minutes on the video.

Give us a synopsis of the allegations, please.

2PhiloVoid said:

For those of you who may not have heard, Ravi Zacharias was a well-known Christian Evangelical apologist who passed away several months ago. Over the years I've heard Ravi on the radio maybe a dozen times, defending the Christian faith and firmly refuting non-believers. And while he wasn't my favorite apologist nor one who was central to the formation of my own Christian beliefs, I have bought a few books here and there that bear his name.

Now, with the allegations that have come to light after Ravi's death (as briefly reviewed in the apologetics video below from Christian youtuber, Whaddo You Meme??) I have to ask: What should I do with the 4 or 5 Christian apologetics books by Ravi Zacharias that sit on my shelf? Should I toss them? What would you do with them? And what should we as Christians learn from this scandal?

Youtuber: Whaddo You Meme?? - Date Video Posted: Dec 23, 2020, Video length: 6 minutes, 7 seconds.

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I have a couple of issues with the video. First, it's nothing more than gossip. We are warned ib Leviticus not to be a tale barer and that is backed up by Paul numerous times in his epistles.

The biggest issue I have though is that Zacharias is dead and cannot respond to these allegations. Leviticus says that by the voice of two or three witnesses a fact is established. That works both ways, the defense gets to provide witnesses and evidence which prove allegations false. That is not what is taking place here. The investigation is akin to the FBI conducting an investigation and the DoJ declaring the defendant guilty before the press. The defense hasn't had a chance to respond before the media declares guilt.

I have no horse in this race. I don't care for anti-theological evangelical Christianity of the sort Zacharias peddled. I also don't care for evangelicals who pretend like the Mormons are just another branch of the church. However, we in the church must take seriously passages that warn against gossip and tale bearing and we must also seek to follow Deutoronomy 19:15; Matt 18 and 1 Cor. 13 as well as levitical requirements that an actual trial be conducted when charges are brought, complete with a defense. We are too quick to believe every woman and assume the worst without actually having the facts. I would encourage believers to stop listening to gossip and withhold judgment at this time.

GOD Shines Forth! said:

Think of Solomon. I’m not getting rid of his writings, no how no way. It’s not like Ravi was promoting or teaching error, right?

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I agree with this. I also think we are talking about human beings. We are sinful people. I believe Ravi was a great defender of the faith. It isn't my business to judge him.

2PhiloVoid said:

For those of you who may not have heard, Ravi Zacharias was a well-known Christian Evangelical apologist who passed away several months ago. Over the years I've heard Ravi on the radio maybe a dozen times, defending the Christian faith and firmly refuting non-believers. And while he wasn't my favorite apologist nor one who was central to the formation of my own Christian beliefs, I have bought a few books here and there that bear his name.

Now, with the allegations that have come to light after Ravi's death (as briefly reviewed in the apologetics video below from Christian youtuber, Whaddo You Meme??) I have to ask: What should I do with the 4 or 5 Christian apologetics books by Ravi Zacharias that sit on my shelf? Should I toss them? What would you do with them? And what should we as Christians learn from this scandal?

Youtuber: Whaddo You Meme?? - Date Video Posted: Dec 23, 2020, Video length: 6 minutes, 7 seconds.

Click to expand...

You keep them. The message is not contaminated by the messenger. King David, the Apostle Paul, and so on would have been subject to scandal in their days, but unless God uses flawed men and women, He cannot use any of us. It keeps the focus on Jesus, to be honest, and off of ourselves. God Bless.

I listen to Ravi every weekend. I think he's rather good & very knowledgeable on all the books of the Bible.

I'd be booted out of every religion and all of society if people perused my bookshelves with the intent of censoring me for owning a book they disagreed with or found to be written by someone of questionable character. I read practically EVERYTHING and have books on practically every topic with a variety of authors as I believe there is always something to be learned through all facets of life and all sorts of people, good or bad. And I really don't care what other people think about it.

With that said, I likely wouldn't prominently display the "off topic" or questionable books in a church office in a manner that suggests support. Place and time.

Concerning his books, I would look at how reading them affects your own connection with God. Are you able to get past the moral failings of the author in order to see if there is anything of benefit in the text, or would your mind continuously be reflecting on the author and perhaps damaging your own faith? These sorts of things affect people differently.

chad kincham said:

I’m not going to spend 38 minutes on the video. Give us a synopsis of the allegations, please.

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RZIM Confirms Ravi Zacharias’s Sexual Misconduct

Looks like he partially owned some massage centers and allegations have come forward from the massage therapists at those places which the Ravi Zacharias International Ministries (RZIM) has been looking into, and unfortunately finding some level of confirmation. They have engaged a law firm to get to the truth of the matter, which is commendable on behalf of the RZIM, imho. Most people these days hire law firms to suppress unpleasant truths. RZIM is expected to have a full report in January, which they will then release to the public.

“We know this news will send all of us, and thousands of others, into grief, confusion, disillusionment, and anger,” wrote Sarah Davis, RZIM’s CEO and Zacharias’s daughter. “We know that you will have many questions, as we all do as well.”

bekkilyn said:

With that said, I likely wouldn't prominently display the "off topic" or questionable books in a church office in a manner that suggests support. Place and time.

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Yeah. My "Anarchist's Cookbook" didn't go over well