When is the beast destroyed and thrown into the fire ?

"Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection .Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." Rev.20:6. The first resurrection is a resurrection to immortality and occurs before the Millennium—the 1,000-year reign of Christ and the saints on Earth.See also 1 Corinthians 52-53.This is the time that Satan is cast into the bottomless pit for a 1000 years. Revealtion 20:3. This first resurrection is one to glory and immortality, and consists only of those who are Christ's at the time of His Second Coming(1 Corinthians 15:23) Hebrews 11:35 calls this the "better resurrection." Only a small minority(Little flock in Luke 12:32)of human beings has ever come to truly know Christ and the Father, and trust in them.
Revelation 20:5 makes plain that the rest of the dead those who were not in the first resurrection do not live again until the conclusion of the millennial reign of Christ and the saints. John went on to describe a vast array of people who would at that time be restored to life and stand before God (verse 12). We are told that the Book of Life is reopened. See also Ezekiel 37:12-13.
Why is this necessary, when Scripture explains that those whose names were previously recorded in the Book of Life(Rev. 3:5)were raised to immortality at Christ's return a 1000 years earlier. God will not need to reopen the Book to see if He has inadvertently made an error and left someone out. Rather, this reopening represents a chance for others at that time to be recorded in the book.These are the ones who have not known Christ.
A Third Resurrection? But what happens to those who have knowingly rejected God's salvation as some in this age have had an opportunity for God's salvation, but have willfully turn aside and rejected it. Peter spoke of them in 2 Peter 2:21 "For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them." The Apostle Paul explained: "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries" Hebrews 10 :26-27. Notice the description given in Malichi 4:1"'For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up says the Lord of hosts, 'that will leave them neither root nor branch.'" The hellfire described in Scripture is designed to destroy the wicked,not torture them forever for the soul in not immortal.Ezekiel 18:4 ,"the soul that sins shall die." The immortality of the soul is unscriptural. See also Gen.2:17
Rev.20:15 describes the timing of this future destruction of the incorrigibly wicked. Such a person will be confronted with the torment of his exclusion from the Kingdom of God, and his impending destruction, and will perish along with all those who ultimately reject their opportunity for salvation. At that point, all human beings whose names have not been written in the Book of Life will perish. Peter described that at this coming time of God's final judgment on sin. 2 Peter 3:10

jeffweedaman said:

Do we all agree that this happens at the Lords second coming?

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From 2 Peter 2:4 the angels that sinned were cast down to hell <5020> or tartarus, reserved unto judgment.

From Revelation 18:2 Babylon is fallen, is fallen and become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
So Babylon at this point contains every foul spirit, which is the angels of 2 Peter 2:4, the beast, false prophet, and Satan.

In Revelation 14:8 Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and in Revelation 14:13 blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth, that they may rest from their labors and their works do follow them. From these verses it appears that people are still on earth after Babylon has fallen. How can this be if the beast is cast into the LOF at the second coming?

jeffweedaman said:

Do we all agree that this happens at the Lords second coming?

If so , what happens to those who have followed him at this time?

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All of Revelation from the 6th Seal on happens at the Second Coming. Revelation is the Second Coming.

By the end of the 7th Trumpet at the battle of Armageddon all Adam's flesh and blood will have died. It is appointed unto man, once to die, and then the judgment. At the Second Coming all have to die because it is the time of judgment. The GWT is the defeat of Death.

Now those who die into Death during the Second Coming are not found in the Lamb's book of life. The 4th Seal introduces Death as the 4th horse judgment on the church herself. The Apostate church will obviously be placed in Death, not sheol. They outright denied the truth of God and rejected God's Word. Their names are not found in the Lamb's book of life. Then the goat's are placed in Death. Matthew 25:31-46. Then the wheat is separated from the tares, and the tares are placed in Death. We see in the wedding parable itself, when a guest shows up without a wedding gown, and they are cast into Death. Then all the living with the mark have traded the mark for the removal from the Lamb's book of life. If they die at any time, they are placed in Death. Then at the GWT in Revelation 20, Death itself is emptied and then it and those in it, not found in the Lamb's book of life, are cast into the Lake of Fire.

You ask about this third group living on earth. They physically die, the sheep and the wheat, not burned up, not sent to heaven, not in the church, church was completed and glorified at the Second Coming in the 6th Seal. Now the Lamb and the 144k part of this "new group" gather the harvest of chosen souls. Then those beheaded instead of receiving the mark, they are the Revelation 20:4 resurrection. Not glorified, but given incorruptible bodies that can never die. These humans repopulate the nations and earth for 1000 years. Sin is gone, and no sin nature. This nature was not biological but given to all Adam's descendants. In the millennium the offspring of resurrected bodies will still be incorruptible body humans. At the end many will rebel. Not sin, just think this whole God life is not for them. They will be consumed by fire and presumably immediately enter the lake of fire. They have no need to stand at the GWT.

I think the Lake of fire is outside of reality in such a way that is the only reminder of the past. Revelation 22 mentions the wicked are still eternally outside of perfection. Not sure how total annihilation can happen if God claims they are eternally in the lake of fire, just outside of the next reality.

Are there some in sheol over the last 5990 years who want to change their minds about God, standing at the GWT? The Bible does not say. Yes their names are found in the Lamb's book of life, because going to sheol happened prior to the Lamb's book of life being unsealed during the 7 Seals. We do not know if some will remain and go into eternity or not. Some will be told God never knew them. Those will be removed because their spirit had become a demon. (Whole different topic)

Some never knew God. At least that is the claim made by some. The Lamb's book of life was opened to remove many names, and more than likely most names of those in sheol. All that can be said is that God is longsuffering, and if some humans after longsuffering can still choose God, why would they not remain in the Lamb's book of life. God still leaves it up to those standing there, how they will give an account. If they remain stubborn and demand their own rights and rightness, then God will take that as a reason to remove them as covered by His Atonement.

grafted branch said:

From 2 Peter 2:4 the angels that sinned were cast down to hell <5020> or tartarus, reserved unto judgment.

From Revelation 18:2 Babylon is fallen, is fallen and become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
So Babylon at this point contains every foul spirit, which is the angels of 2 Peter 2:4, the beast, false prophet, and Satan.

In Revelation 14:8 Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and in Revelation 14:13 blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth, that they may rest from their labors and their works do follow them. From these verses it appears that people are still on earth after Babylon has fallen. How can this be if the beast is cast into the LOF at the second coming?

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The first mistake you are making is placing events where they don't fit. Those verses you bring up in Revelation 14 are meaning during the time recorded in Revelation 13:5. What is recorded in Revelation 18 is meaning at the end of the 42 months recorded in Revelation 13:5. The fact it makes zero sense that saints are still being martyred once the 2nd coming takes place, this alone proves you are placing events where they don't fit. The chronology of events appear to be like such. Saints are being persecuted and martyred. Eventually all of that is fulfilled, which then leads to what is recorded in Revelation 18 and 19. No saints are still being martyred during the events recorded in ch 18 and 19. Anyone being killed during those events would not be saints who refuse to worship the beast, but would be the ones worshiping it instead.

Matthew 24 shows that there are 2 time periods that precede the 2nd coming. The first time period being the trib of those days, IOW the GT. The 2nd time period being when the sun goes dark, etc. The verses you brought up from Revelation 14 fit during the first time period. What you brought up from Revelation 18 fits during the 2nd time period.

IOW, Matthew 24:15-26 is meaning the first time period. Matthew 24:29 is meaning the 2nd time period. Where then Matthew 24:30 records the 2nd coming.

DavidPT said:

The first mistake you are making is placing events where they don't fit. Those verses you bring up in Revelation 14 are meaning during the time recorded in Revelation 13:5. What is recorded in Revelation 18 is meaning at the end of the 42 months recorded in Revelation 13:5.

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So when Revelation 14:8 says “Babylon is fallen, is fallen” and Revelation 18:2 says “Babylon is fallen, is fallen”; we should interpret this as two events separated by 42 months?

jeffweedaman said:

Do we all agree that this happens at the Lords second coming?

If so , what happens to those who have followed him at this time?

Scripture in Rev states....,


All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.



And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.



“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.


Rev 14
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”




Those not in the book of life from the foundation of the world , will follow the beast, and those who follow the beast are thrown into the fire....at his coming.


So who could possibily populate a future millennial reign when Jesus comes again a second time to destroy the beast?

All whose names are not in the book of life from the foundation of the world right up until his coming will have their part in the LOF that was prepared for the devil and his beast angels.

How can one possibly introduce a third group , (who never had their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world , and avoided the mark of the beast ) , that survives to populate a future period of time after the Lord comes again??

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jeffweedaman said:

Do we all agree that this happens at the Lords second coming?

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Nope .... all are destroyed after the 2nd resurrection - there is not a millennial reign on earth.

When Jesus returns the 1st resurrection happens ... all the saved (those in the grave and those living at the time) are taken to heaven for 1,000 years (referred to as the millennium).

At His coming ... The unsaved dead remain in the grave ... the unsaved living at the time (which will include the beast and the false prophet, along with all the other unsaved) are destroyed and lay dead on the earth.

1 Thessalonians 2

8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.

After the 2nd resurrection the New Jerusalem descends from heaven and the battle of Armageddon takes place ... God then destroys the earth and everything in it (this is the lake of fire) the devil and his minions and ALL the wicked lost are destroyed forever.

God then makes the new earth.

ewq1938 said:

The army and it's leaders are killed at Armageddon. The rest of the world's mortals are ruled over by a rod of iron for a thousand years by Christ and his saints which is also the same exact time Satan is imprisoned and kept away from the same people being ruled over. See post 2 for scriptures and details.

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Just "the army and it's leaders" will be killed? That's not what it says.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

You seem to have missed the part which indicates that "all people, free and slave, great and small" will be killed on the day Christ returns.

Paul indicates that all "who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus" will be killed on the day "the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven".

2 Thess 1:6 God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7 and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might 10 on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.

So, besides believers, who will all be "changed" to be immortal (1 Cor 15:50-54) and caught up to meet the Lord (1 Thess 4:13-17), what mortals exactly will survive His coming and what exactly will qualify them to survive?

ewq1938 said:

The context is the people gathered there at Armageddon not the entire planet. Jesus does the killing there and it's done there, not all over the Earth.

Have you forgotten the fact that the rule over the nations is written in the future tense to the present tense events of the battle of Armageddon? The killing is all happening at that time but the rule over the nations happens after those events which proves many people are not killed but are ruled over and the word rule means to care for like a shepherd over a flock.

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The reference to Armageddon is figurative just like the reference to Gog and Magog symbolizes "the nations in the four quarters of the earth" in Revelation 20:7-9.

How exactly will Jesus rule over them the way you think He will when it says He will be smiting them and treading them in the winepress of God's wrath when He returns? You can say He will rule over them all you want, but the rest of the passage makes it clear that He will be destroying them. That is how He will rule His enemies. Why would He have any interest in ruling over them on the earth, anyway? For what purpose? They are His enemies. It makes much more sense that He would want to destroy them for rejecting Him. How would ruling over them on the earth be a case of Him taking vengeance on them?

This is how He will "rule" over them:

Psalm 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

This is clearly a picture of complete destruction and not earthly rule the way you think of it. The way He will rule them is by breaking/destroying them. They wish He wouldn't destroy them and would rule over them and give them a second chance. But, that isn't going to happen. Don't you understand that His wrath will be coming down upon them? Where do you see any indication that He would want to waste His time ruling over them on the earth? Look at the following passage:

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Does this give you the sense that He is coming to rule over His enemies rather than destroy them? Why is it that His enemies would rather have the mountains and rocks fall on them and crush them than face His wrath if He was going to rule over them?

And then, if there was still any doubt as to what Christ will do to all of His enemies when He returns, just read the following passages:

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

What does it mean to you when Jesus described the flood destroying all the unbelievers in Noah's day and then saying "so shall also the coming of the Son of man be"?

Do the following passages allow any mortal survivors of His coming?

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Notice Paul taught that Christ's enemies "shall not escape" the "sudden destruction" that will come upon them. Why does your doctrine allow them to escape?

Why won't they escape? That implies they will have nowhere to go to hide. Is that accurate? According to Peter, it is:

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

No wonder Paul said "they shall not escape". No one, except believers, will escape fire coming down upon the entire earth. That is why Peter didn't say we are looking forward to an earthly kingdom, but instead said "we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness".

It does not say they are killed the day of the second coming plus in that passage the punishment of everlasting destruction is also in the future tense so also not happening the day of the second coming. People need to learn to study and understand the verb tenses to know when things happen and do not happen.

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

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People need to learn to accept what scripture says about the scope of those Christ will be destroying when He returns.


This verb is in the present tense and so this “taking vengeance” happens during the second coming.


2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

“shall be punished” is in the FUTURE TENSE which means that the everlasting destruction ie: GWTJ/LOF is NOT happening at the second coming but is a FUTURE event after the second coming which is fuklly Premill.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Interlinear: who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength,

You can verify in the link above that the verb tisousin is in the future tense: verb tense: future indicative active.

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Of course, the physical destruction takes place first and then the judgment takes place. Just like we can see in Revelation 20:9-15. The idea that there would be a long time in between the physical destruction and them being cast away from His presence forever is clearly refuted by looking at Revelation 20:9-15 which shows His enemies who are alive on the earth being killed followed immediately by the judgment.

The bible only tells us that the nations will be ruled over after the events of the second coming. It doesn't say why they were allowed to survive but one important thing is they are not part of the Beast's army that is gathered at Armageddon. That alone keeps them alive because everyone gathered at that place will be killed.

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Why would you think Armageddon is a literal place when the references to Babylon are clearly not referring to literal Babylon and the reference to "Gog and Magog" in Revelation 20:8 is not referring to literal Gog and Magog?

ewq1938 said:

No, it is a literal place where two armies will meet for battle and one army is completely destroyed.




Study into the original language there and you will discover that the smiting and treading are present tense and happening at that battle but the rule is future tense and is not happening there. It happening in the future, passed the second coming events.



It doesn't say that. It explicitly says the nations will be ruled over after the battle of Armageddon. The same verb tenses are found at the end of Rev 2 which proves the same thing.

It is impossible to understand what happens at the second coming and what happens AFTER the second coming properly without understanding the verb tenses involved.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule(FUTURE tense verb) them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth(PRESENT tense verb) the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here rule/poimaino is in the FUTURE tense meaning it will happen at some point AFTER the second coming and battle of Armageddon while treadeth/pateo is written in the PRESENT tense meaning it is happening during this second coming and slaying. This proves the Premill position because indeed there is a future rule of people who were not slain during the second coming that Christ and his saints will rule over.


A second witness to this:

Rev 2:25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.

That is the second coming. Everything we read of next comes after the second coming:

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

After "the end" comes, there is given power over the nations to those that are overcomers which naturally includes those who "are alive and remain" at the second coming. They will be given power over the nations after Christ has returned not before it.

Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

After the second coming and after "the end" will the overcomers be given power over the nations, ruling them with a rod of iron. That proves the rod of iron rule over the nations for a thousand years does not even start until Christ has returned and has given overcomers this power to rule over the nations.

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Unless you can explain what mortals exactly He would rule over and why they would be allowed to survive then you can't be taken seriously.

You'd also have to show how passages like Matthew 24:35-39, 1 Thess 5:1-6 and 2 Peter 3:3-13 allow for any mortal survivors of His return. Can you do that?

ewq1938 said:

The issue here is the scriptures prove there is a rule of the nations after the killing and slaughter of the second coming. That makes some people's end times positions to be incorrect. As I originally posted, only the FP, the beast and it's army are defeated and killed etc at Armageddon. The OP asks when the beast is destroyed and cast into fire...the answer is Revelation 19, the end result of the battle of Armageddon.

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It's obvious that the beast is cast into the lake of fire at that point. The OP discusses more than just that.

Also, I showed that it's more than just the armies who will be killed.

Revelation 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

That's too far off topic to this thread's topic. Discussing those would have to be in a new thread.

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I think it's up to the one who created the thread to decide what is off topic or not. It seems to me that it's the beast and all who worship the beast that he wants to discuss. If I believe these other scriptures refer to the ones who worship the beast (all whose names are not written in the book of life) then I have the right to include them in the discussion.