THE CHANGING OF GOD'S SABBATH TO SUNDAY WORSHIP?
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Arr no problem, sorry about that I tend to shorten everyone's alias, bad habit.
God bless brother EJM
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Hello
Thank you for the explanation.
My conclusion is as follows,
The Sabbath commandment is indeed for the Jews, and isn't incumbent on us Gentile believers.
This conclusion is based on, the Word of God, Acts 15.
If God wanted to impose this yoke on us, He would have inspired the Apostles to add it in to the other four thereby eliminating the endless arguments and controversy surrounding the Sabbath.
The standard arguments, such as "which of the other ten commandments are no longer relevant"
Jesus changed them all, loving God is tied to loving our fellow man. (I John 2-3-4) adultery and murder is brought to a higher standard, if it is in ones heart, it is the same as the act. Where is was OK to gouge out an assailant's eye or bash out his tooth, today Jesus' standard of love for God includes love for our enemies. (Matt 5:38-48)
And Heb 4 confirms Jesus is our sabbath rest.
When I worked up on Alaska's North slope, I discovered the truth of the midnight sun.
If the Sabbath starts at sundown on Friday evening and ends at sundown on Saturday evening, there is no Sabbath from early June until late July. And no ending of the sabbath from early December until late January. And we must remember, if we condemn the Pope for changing times and laws and then do the same.... (Romans 2:1-2)
Then this from the International date line Sabbath controversy;
The leadership of the Samatau S.D.A. church has decided to continue observing Saturday as the Sabbath. Within the rest of the Samoa Mission, on the other hand, there are many families and individuals who cannot conscientiously go along with the decision of the church leadership to observe what is now Sunday. ( Saturday, Officially changed to coincide with the new IDL) Thus, confusion has been the result.
And the true story which I don't have all the details right so I'll do my best,
Two men, Jews I think, went away from home and moved, one to the East and one to the West and ended up in the same city halfway around the world. Both religiously kept the Sabbath every seventh day of the week, however found themselves worshiping on two different days, one on Sunday and one on Saturday, and I imagine insisting they were right and the other was wrong.
Possibly accusing each other of apostasy or whatever........
That pesky dateline!
And the story in Numbers 15 where a man was stoned for gathering firewood and kindling a fire.
So if we really keep the Sabbath it is the most miserable day of the week if anyone lives North of the 20th parallel, especially on the North slope from December through January.
In fact up there survival isn't possible if we truly keep the Sabbath, because the main breaker must be shut off to forgo the buying and selling aspect of the fourth commandment, and we better not turn the thingy in our car called the ignition thereby kindling a fire in the four, six or eight cylinder fuel burner. Let's not forget, if we condemn the Pope for changing the times and laws and do the same thing............ (Rom 2:1-2)
This truth causes me to worry about my SDA friends, I don't know a single one who actually keeps the Sabbath as outlined in the Bible yet routinely condemn the rest of us for not keeping the Sabbath. I believe if such want to keep the Jewish Sabbath it's fine but to condemn others for changing times and laws and then also doing so.. (changing Sabbath start /stop times, kindling fires, buying electricity, internet and phone service and etc.)
Also the enormous outsized emphasis on the fourth commandment to the neglect of other commandments is also troubling. Not trying to throw stones or fault find, just expressing concerns.
Legalists in Jesus' day also were religious about keeping the Sabbath and it was key in missing out on the greatest event man has ever experienced, because of the outsized focus on the Sabbath.
My conclusion is, my Savior is a loving, kind compassionate Redeemer who does not make commandments to make life miserable for His children. It's fine to keep the sabbath, as long as we keep it without adding to or taking away from the commandment, or condemning those who don't see it our way.
I believe the prophesy of a universal Sunday law to be a false prophesy, to imagine such a law would pass in today's atheistic, liberal society is ridiculous, not going to happen.
If I'm wrong I'll gladly drop down on my knees and confess, I was wrong. However I believe my knees will only be utilized to seek my Redeemer, we will see. It seems like such a prophesy would include a timeline by a true prophet, but no, it's always sometime in the future, coming soon.
His salvation is for whosoever will, even those from the Arctic or the Antarctic, or the East or the West. Even for those on the wrong side of the IDL.
And He did not saddle us with a yoke none are able to bear (Acts 15).
And the requirements for salvation outlined in Romans 10:9-10 do not include keeping the Sabbath. Seven times in Rev 2-3 Jesus said, whoso has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Do we have an ear?
Blessings be upon all who seek Him and love the truth.
Please come soon Lord Jesus!
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I see. No problem. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I prefer the bible so we will have to agree to disagree. For some reason, I did not think you had a genuine reason for asking those questions earlier. May I ask you honestly do you or did you have another account here where you went by a different account name? I noticed that you did not answer this question in my first post do you.
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How did you come to that conclusion from what I posted to you?
I see. So you came to that conclusion based around something we never talked about or discussed? You do know that Acts 15 was never talking about the Sabbath or anyone of God's 10 commandments right? It was talking about the question "Is the Mosaic law of CIRCUMCISION a requirement for salvation?" as shown in the context of Acts of the Apostles 15:1-2. "CIRCUMCISION" is not a one of God's 10 commandments but a "shadow law" of a new heart to love God by faith. Those who read into the scriptures the Sabbath or God's 10 commandments make Paul a hypocrite when when Paul sometimes later after the Jerusalem decision goes off to the Corinthian believers and tells them - "CIRCUMCISION IN NOTHING AND UNCIRCUMCISION IS NOTHING BUT THE KEEPING OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD" - 1 Corinthians 7:19. Acts 15 was over the question is Circumcision a requirement for salvation, not if the 10 commandments a requirement for christian living as Paul states in Corinthians.
JESUS came to magnify the law from the inside out quoting Matthew 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, we can in no way enter the kingdom of heaven. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. evil begins in the heart. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart defile a man *Matthew 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead man’s bones *Matthew 23:27-28.
JESUS magnified the law to the inside out, to show us that we are all sinners in need of a Savior and that sin originates in the heart (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the new covenant promise to love and need to be born again by faith in God's word for salvation to be free from sin (breaking any one of god's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10.
This is leading to the new covenant promise of a new heart to love *Hebrews 8:10-12; John 5:42; 1 John 5:17-19; 1 John 4:16; 1 John 5:3; 1 John 4:8.
God knows that we do not naturally have the love of God in us *John 5:42. We need to be born of in the Spirit to love God and our fellow man *1 John 4:7 and partake of the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. This is why Jesus teaches in *John 3:3-7 that unless we are made clean from the inside out and born again to love we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. This is exactly what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5:20 when discussing the scribes and the pharisees teaching the application of God's law needs to be applied to the heart from the inside out (thoughts and feelings).
Whosoever is born of God to love in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12 does not commit sin *1 John 3:9; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; Romans 3:31; Matthew 22:36-40. This is the good news (gospel) in the new covenant that we have a Savior to save us from sin (not in sin) but we have to be made new to walk in God's Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 8:1-4.
1 John 3:3-10 is talking about all those who are born again to love, and it is love that fulfills God's law in all those who believe and follow god's word in the new covenant *Hebrews 8:10-12; Romans 13:8-10. This results in a people that keep God's LAW (10 commandments) from the inside out. *Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14; 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:3-10; Romans 13:8-10; Romans 3:31; Hebrews 8:10-12. Unless we are born again to love we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven *John 3:3-7.
Love is not separate from God's Law it establishes God's law and that is why JESUS says "ON THESE TWO GREAT COMMANDMENTS (of love to God and man) HANG ALL THE LAW and the prophets *Matthew 22:36-40.
This is what Paul is referring to when he says in Romans 13;
[8] Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: FOR HE THAT LOVES ANOTHER HAS FULFILLED THE LAW. [9], FOR THIS, YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT KILL, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, YOU SHALL NOT COVET; AND IF THERE BE ANY OTHER COMMANDMENT, it is briefly SUMMED UP in this saying, namely, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF. [10], Love works no ill to his neighbor: THEREFORE LOVE IS THE FULFILLING OF THE LAW.
James agrees with what both JESUS and Paul in James 2 when he says…
[8], If you fulfill the royal law according to the scripture, YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF, YOU DO WELL {Paul says in Romans 13:8-10 above that the second commandment is summing up our duty of love in keeping the 10 commandments}:
[9], BUT IF YOU HAVE RESPECT TO PERSONS, YOU COMMIT SIN, AND ARE CONVINCED OF THE LAW AS TRANSGRESSORS.
[10], For WHOEVER SHALL KEEP THE WHOLE LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN ONE POINT, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL.
[11], FOR HE THAT SAID, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, SAID ALSO, DO NOT KILL. NOW IF YOU COMMIT NO ADULTERY, YET IF YOU KILL, YOU ARE BECOME A TRANSGRESSOR OF THE LAW.
[12], So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Love dear friend is not separated from God’s 10 commandments it obeys them and is expressed through obedience to them and is why JESUS says…
John 14:15 IF YOU LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENT
John 15:10 IF YOU KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, YOU SHALL ABIDE IN MY LOVE; EVEN AS I HAVE KEPT MY FATHER'S COMMANDMENTS, AND ABIDE IN HIS LOVE.
John 14:23 If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and make our stayed with him.
Paul and John also demonstrating the same thoughts here in those who are born again to walk in the Spirit..
Romans 8:1-4 1, THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.[2], For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: {Why?} [4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.
According to Paul, Faith does not abolish God’s law it establishes it through faith…
Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yes, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW.
So how is the love of God expressed through faith in Gods’ Word?
1 John 5:3-4 [3], FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS. [4], For whatever is born of God overcomes the world: and THIS IS THE VICTORY THAT OVERCOMES THE WORLD, EVEN OUR FAITH.
………….
CONCLUSION: So what the conclusion of the matter?
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.
God’s LAW (10 commandments) is not abolished it is fulfilled and established in the life of a believer as they believe God’s Word and abide in Christ and walk in God’s Spirit *Galatians 5:16; Romans 3:31; Romans 8:4. You are mistaken dear friend not knowing Gods’ Word. God is calling us out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Revelation 18:1-5; John 4:23-24. JESUS says if we follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. The question we should all be asking ourselves therefore is who do we believe and follow, God or man? Time to leave BABYLON, it has fallen *Revelation 14:8-12; Revelation 18:1-5
More to come....
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Actually no it doesn't! There is no scripture in Hebrews 4 that says JESUS is a Sabbath. Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4 define "GODS REST" as the seventh day Sabbath of creation. That is the rest those those who believe and follow Gods' Word enter into as they believe and follow Gods' Word (the gospel). Here dear friend don't take my word for it let's look at exactly what the scriptures say...
DEFINING GOD’S SABBATH AND GOD’S REST – HEBREWS 4
Letting the scriptures interpret the scriptures. We read in God's 4th commandment of the 10..
EXODUS 20:10 [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God;
This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK which is a direct reference back to the creation week from when it was made as shown in v11.
EXODUS 20:11 [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and MADE IT HOLY.
NOTE: It is the SEVENTH DAY (SABBATH) that God RESTED so the SABBATH defined as the SEVENTH DAY of the WEEK is GOD'S REST. NOTE EXODUS 20:11 is a direct reference back to GENESIS 2:1-3 which is a direct reference back to GENESIS 2:3 descibing the reason for GOD's 4th Commandment SEVENTH DAY SABBATH is that GOD BLESSED THE SABBATH (defined as the SEVENTH DAY in v10) and made it a HOLY DAY.
GENESIS 2:1-3 [1], Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
[2], And ON THE SEVENTH DAY God ended his work which he had made; and HE RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; KEEP SABBATH] on the SEVENTH DAY from all his work which he had made. [3], And GOD BLESSED THE SEVENTH DAY AND MADE IT HOLY: BECAUSE THAT IN IT HE HAD RESTED [שׁבת; shâbath H7673; Keep Sabbath] from all his work which God created and made.
NOTE: The reason for the Sabbath Commandment is to REMEMBER the God of creation. HE RESTED IS GOD'S REST (verb) which God's WORD says is the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK WHICH IS CALLED SABBATH (noun), BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK and made it a HOLY DAY that no work is to be done. v11 Refers back to Genesis 2:1-3 and the origin of the Sabbath which is the SEVENTH DAY. v8 shows that this commandment is a MEMORIAL of creation v11 [the reason for the 4th commandment]. It is very clear as we look through the scriptures and let the scriptures interpret themselves that GOD MADE THE SEVENTH DAY SABBATH FOR MANKIND. It is also one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of SIN when broken.
MARK 2:27-28 [27], And he said unto them, THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath:[28], so that the Son of man is LORD OF THE SABBATH (creator).
The GREEK word highlighted here for MAN in MARK 2:27 is ἄνθρωπος; anthrōpos (G444) which means HUMAN BEING or mankind.
CONCLUSION: The SABBATH as defined in God's Word as *EXODUS 20:10 is the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK because God BLESSED the SEVENTH DAY and made it a HOLY DAY in EXODUS 20:11 repeating GENESIS 2:1-3. The Hebrew word for REST 7673 שָׁבַת shâbath, is the verb used for KEEPING THE SABBATH by RESTING. The person doing the RESTING was GOD the creator of heaven and earth. God's WORD also defines GOD'S REST therefore as the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH that God created for all mankind.
While the Hebrew word for SABBATH 7676 שַׁבָּת shabbâth, is the noun or the name of what is being kept which is the SEVENTH DAY that God RESTED on and BLESSED and made HOLY. The reason the SABBATH was made was for mankind to REST, CELEBRATE and REMEMBER GOD'S CREATION *EXODUS 20:8 and the GOD as the CREATOR and LORD of the SABBATH *MARK 2:27-28.
.............
Linking EXODUS 20:8-11 and GENESIS 2:1-3 to HEBREWS 4 and God's REST.
The CONTEXT that you ignore here is HEBREWS 4:1-5 which is discussing GOD'S REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH with reference back to GENENSIS 2:1-3. That is the REST we are to enter into. Those that did not enter into GOD'S REST (SEVENTH DAY SABBATH) did not enter into God's REST because of SIN and UNBELIEF in the gosple of God's WORD.
See HEBREWS 3 WILDERNESS not entering into God’s REST…
EZEKIEL 20:10-13 [10], Why I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt and BROGHT THEM INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11], AND I GAVE THEM MY STATUTES, AND SHOWED THEM MY JUDGMENTS, WHICH IF A MAN DO, HE SHALL LIVE IN THEM. [12], Moreover ALSO I GAVE THEM MY SBBATHS, TO BE A SIGN BETWEEN ME AND THEM THAT THEY MAY KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD THAT SANCTIFY THEM. [13], But THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL REBELLED AGAINST ME IN THE WILDERNESS: THEY WALKED NOT IN MY STATUTES AND DISPISED MY JUDGMENTS WHICH IF A MAN DO THEY SHALL LIVE IN THEM AND MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLUTED: THEN I SAID I WOULD POUR OUT MY FURY ON THEM IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.
HEBREWS 4:1-11
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.
[4], FOR HE SPOKE IN A CERTAIN PLACE (GENSIS 2:1-3) OF THE SEVENTH DAY ON THIS WISE, AND GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY FROM ALL HIS WORKS.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.
NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who BELIEVE AND FOLLOW GOD'S WORD enter into that rest which God's WORD defines as the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is GOD'S REST! Let's continue...
6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”
[10], For he that is entered into HIS REST (v9 God's SABBATH REST), he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], LET US LABOR THEREFORE TO ENTER INTO THAT REST (God's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST), lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief (HEBREWS 3).
.............
CONCLUSION: HEBREWS 4 is talking about the Gospel rest of BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD; v29 Learn of me; v30 my burden (doing) is light. This agrees with Hebrews 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. HEBREWS 4:1-11 is in reference to GOD'S REST which God's WORD defines is the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH which is the CONTEXT shown in HEBREWS 4:1-5. HEBREWS 4 therefore with context added is saying that no one enter God's Sabbath rest if they do not BELIEVE AND FOLLOW God's WORD
Might stop here so this does not get too big. More to come...
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Not really dear friend. There is no indigenous civilizations that are native to Alaska or Antarctica. Alaska did not begin to be settled by man until 1798 and Antarctica until the 1900's when scientists from all over the world made settlements to study it. For Sabbath keepers traveling there they either use the Sabbath times for the nearest locations that have a 24 hour sunset to sunset or use a 6pm to 6am time period for the Sabbath the above are based on the biblical time for a day in Genesis 1.
You have your facts wrong dear friend. The SDA Church's position was to keep the same Sabbath not a new one imposed by a man-made arbitrary dateline. If you are interested and want to know what actually happened and the truth. You can read about it here linked click me
We are in the new testament now dear friend not the old testament. The death penalty here is in regard to the civil laws of the nation of Israel for publicly breaking not just God's 4th commandment but everyone of God's 10 commandments (scriptures provided on request). This was to teach us that the wages of sin is death according to the new testament scripture in Romans 6:23.
What would you be needing to buy and sell on the Sabbath and why would the main breaker need to be shut off? You do know that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath right to save life *Matthew 12:1-12?
The Scribes and Pharisees accused JESUS of breaking the Sabbath as well. Yet he was the Lord and creator of it. According to the Scribes and Pharisees Jesus was not keeping the Sabbath yet it was their unbiblical interpretation of the Sabbath that stopped them from receiving God's Word on how to keep the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12. I think there is a lesson here.
There is only emphasis on God's 4th commandment because the Religions of the World have Fallen and departed God's Word in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9. God's people are in every Church who believe and follow God's Word and are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them *John 10:16, BABYLON has fallen dear friend it is time to leave the traditions and teachings of men that have departed the Word of God and return to Gods' Word. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24.
There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments is now abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many to break God's commandments.
So why is this important? Sin is breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments *1 John 3:4; Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20 and if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11 and the wages of sin is death to all those who knowingly practice it and reject the gift of God's dear son after being given a knowledge of the truth of God's Word. *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-31.
JESUS says IF you love me keep my commandments. If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. *John 14:15; John 15:10. There are conditions to abiding in God's love and that is keeping Gods commandment according to the scriptures and not practicing sin *1 John 2:3-4. Those who break Gods' law in order to make a practice of sin, according to the scriptures do not love God as it is written in the scripture "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous 1 John 5:3. Your words here dear friend disagree with God's Word and these are God's Word not my words.
Time will tell dear friend. All the prophecies so far have come true and are verified in History and scripture. These Sunday laws are already on the books in the USA called "Blue Laws". Coincidence? I do not think so. At the moment they are not enforced under prosecution but are dormant but are sitting there waiting and can be re-enacted at any time.
No man knows the day or the hour according to JESUS. *Matthew 24:36
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Ok thanks for the conversation. I pray the scriptures provided in the posts above might be helpful as we are admonished in the scriptures to examine ourselves to see if we are really in the faith and following God or not *2 Corinthians 13:5. God knows that many have been taught to break His commandments out of ignorance to His Word and in times of ignorance God winks at but when JESUS gives us a knowledge of the truth of his Word he calls us to believe and follow what his Word says *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31. If we reject Gods' Word according to the scriptures, then there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a fearful looking forward to of the judgement to come. Anyone seeking God through his Word has my respect. For those who reject God's Word however it will be between them and God according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31
Something to seriously pray about.
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So what your actually saying here is that we love God by breaking his commandment? Isn't that the opposite of what JESUS says in John 14:15?
According to the scriptures Jesus came to magnify the law from the inside out (thoughts and feelings; the mind or heart) quoting Matthew 5:17-32 in fulfillment of *Isaiah 42:21. This is to show that unless our righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the kingdom of heaven *Matthew 5:20. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. Evil begins in the heart *Genesis 6:5 which was the reason mankind was destroyed the first time in the flood *Genesis 6:7-13. Breaking God's 10 commandments from the heart Jesus says is what defile a man *Matthew15:18-19. Jesus is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *Matthew 23:27-28. So who can be saved?
Jesus knows us that naturally we do not have the love of God in us *John 5:42. This is why we need to be born again in the Spirit by faith to love God and keep his commandments *1 John 3:6-9. Jesus magnified the law to the inside out to show us that we are all sinners *Romans 3:9-10 in need of a Savior but many do not know the meaning of these scriptures *Matthew 9:12-13. This is the new covenant promise of God’s salvation in those who believe his Word and why we need to be born again through faith *1 John 5:3-4 to be free from sin (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *Hebrews 8:10-12; 1 John 3:3-10; John 8:32-36; James 2:10-11; 1 John 2:3-4.
If we are not born again into God’s new covenant promise and continue in sin we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 2:3-4; Matthew 24:13.
Righteousness comes from love because love is the fulfilling of God's law and the very expression of what love is *Romans 13:8-10. He that does not love does not know Fod for God is love *1 John 4:7-12; 16 and God's love is expressed through obedience to God's law *1 John 5:3. All those who are born again have a new heart to love and follow God *1 John 4:7. This is the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Those who are born again do not practice sin (breaking God's Commandments) *1 John 3:4-9. This is why John finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 John 5:3 and is why Jesus says If you love me keep my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN *John 3:3-7 in to walk in the Spirit *Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:16 under Gods new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 to love we will not enter God’s Kingdom *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the inside out which is what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5.
All those who knowingly break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11; Romans 3:19-20. All those who knowingly continue in unrepentant sin when they have been given a knowledge of the truth of Gods’ Word and reject it according to the scriptures will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of God’s dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God’s grace *Acts of the Apostles 17:30-31; Hebrews 10:26-27; Romans 6:23.
God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments or the 613 in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.
Love establishes God's law in those who believe and follow God's Word (Romans 8:1-4). Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved it is simply the fruit of love because salvation has already been provided through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9; John 14:15; John 15:10-12; John 14:21; Matthew 22:36-40. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. You cannot separate faith and works according to the scriptures just the same as you cannot separate love and law as obedience is the fruit of faith in God's Word which is how love to God and man is expressed *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12.
This is the new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12; from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Romans 13:8-10 and is why Jesus says "If you love me keep my commandments, and on these two great commandments of love to God and man hang all the law and the prophets.
………….
CONCLUSION: So what the conclusion of the matter?
Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: FEAR GOD, AND KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: FOR THIS IS THE WHOLE DUTY OF MAN.
Not really dear friend. No one said to you that sun-worship is a teaching that is taught in the Roman Catholic Church so if no one has made this charge why are you pretending that they have? So your claims and points you make here are mute ones. What was posted to you though was that there is no scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day of rest. This is simply a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word handed down from the same people that gave us Christmas and Easter which have their origins in paganism and sun-worship. That is a little different to what you posted is it not?
May God bless you as you receive his Word.
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No one is "under the law" according to Romans 3:19-20 unless they stand before God guilty of breaking the law. No one is in Christ or Holy by breaking God's commandments according to the scriptures *1 John 2:3-4 and neither do they show their love for God *Matthew 22:36-40; John 14:15; John 15:10; John 14:23; 1 John 5:3-4. God's people keep God's commandments because they love Jesus and have been born again to walk in His Spirit *Romans 8:1-4; 1 John 3:6-9; Galatians 5:16; Hebrews 8:10-12; John 14:15; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14. Time to leave BABYLON *Revelation 14:8-12; Revelation 18:1-5. God is calling his people out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *John 4:23-24. Sunday worship is a man-made teaching and tradition that is not biblical and led many to break God's commandments. Jesus says if we follow man made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God we are not following God in Matthew 15:3-9. I guess the question we should all be asking ourselves is who are we following; God or man?
Something to pray about.
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How is physically resting a yoke?
What is the Law of Moses in verse 5?
Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, AND to tell them to keep the law of Moses.
The phrase is used 22 times in the Old Testament. And each time it is in reference to that which Moses copied in the book, not the Ten Commandments written on the Tablets of stone. Here are a couple examples.
Josh 8:31 As Moses the servant of the LORD commanded the children of Israel, as it is written in the book of the law of Moses, an altar of whole stones, over which no man hath lift up any iron: and they offered thereon burnt offerings unto the LORD, and sacrificed peace offerings.
2Kgs 14:6 But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses, wherein the LORD commanded, saying, The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor the children be put to death for the fathers; but every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Neh 8:1 And all the people gathered themselves together as one man into the street that was before the water gate; and they spake unto Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses, which the LORD had commanded to Israel.
The Lord gave the Book of the Law of Moses in Mount Horeb. The Ten Commandments where spoken by God on Mount Sinai to all of Israel Exodus 20 .
Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Emphasize that with the mandates given in verse 20 and we see that in no way shape or form was the Ten Commandments being debated on at the council in Jerusalem.
Let's take a look at that verse and the surrounding context shall we. In verse 19 James makes a statement starting with the word "wherefore". Which as you might know means consequently. In other words, Because of what was just said his sentence is we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turning to God.
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turning to God:
Then James gives his solution to the issue.
Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
Then he gives the reason for his solution. This is signified by the word "for" As you know means because.
Acts 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Now the question should arise; why did James say as his reason for verse 19's mandates, "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day."
Let's see where we are at with what was shared on Acts 15 before we continue.
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I know of this doctrine you have come to believe, which implies that Acts 15 made the Law OF Moses void for Gentiles, and that this chapter proves the Apostles of the Christ taught certain people to reject God's Laws, that God's Commandments are the "Yoke" the Fathers couldn't bear. It is a popular doctrine in the religions of the land we both were born into.
But when a person actually examines the Scriptures from the Oracles of God that HE Graciously delivered into our own homes, that Paul calls the Holy Scriptures, in order to "prove all things" as we have all been instructed to do, we will conclude that Act's 15 teaches no such thing.
First, these Pharisees from Jerusalem were claiming to teach the Law of Moses, and Circumcision.
But when we Listen to the Lord's Christ define the Pharisees in Jerusalem, we find this.
John 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
And again.
Matt. 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not God as the doctrine you are promoting implies)
And again;
John 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?
And again;
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
But the doctrine you are promoting wants me to believe that Suddenly, after Stephen was Stoned to death for believing Jesus and His Definition of the Pharisees in Jerusalem, they somehow changed their traditions, and were now truly teaching and believing the Law and Prophets in Acts 15.
Are you implying that Jesus, and all the Prophets in the Old Testament, are lying about the Pharisees and scribes? That they did believe and follow the Law of Moses? Acts 15 does not imply that at all.
Jesus said once "But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Let's shine to Light of the Word of God which became Flesh on all the Doctrines we find in our mind, to see if they are wrought in God, or man.
Consider Acts 6 & 7.
Acts 6: 7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.
9 Then there arose certain of the synagogue, which is called the synagogue of the Libertines, and Cyrenians, and Alexandrians, and of them of Cilicia and of Asia, disputing with Stephen.
10 And they were not able to resist the wisdom and the spirit by which he spake.
11 Then they suborned men, which said, We have heard him speak blasphemous words against Moses, and against God.
12 And they stirred up the people, and the elders, and the scribes, and came upon him, and caught him, and brought him to the council,
13 And set up false witnesses, which said, This man ceaseth not to speak blasphemous words against this holy place, and the law:
So it seems there were religious men of that time who were also accusing the Apostles of turning Gentiles, who were desiring to hear Moses every Sabbath Day, away from God's Law, and from Moses. (Acts 13:42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.)
And what did Stephen, full of the Holy spirit tell them?
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
But you are preaching that by the time Act's 15 comes along, all this has changed. The Pharisees from Jerusalem are suddenly "obeyers" and "teachers" of God's Laws, and the the Apostles were teaching the Gentiles to Reject God's Commandments they heard read from Moses on the Sabbath Days, except the Law of Moses regarding 2 dietary Laws, sexual impurity, and Idolatry.
I hope you are seeing the Light here. There is more.
Acts 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
You have been convinced by some voice that this "Yoke" is God's Commandments, specifically His Holy Sabbath.
It should be easy to establish what this Yoke was, given the Examples of the "Fathers" Paul said was written for our admonition.
We already have Stephens description of the Yoke the Father's couldn't bear.
"Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye."
Their "Yoke" wasn't God's Law as you imply in your doctrine. "Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it."
What Yoke is Peter speaking to here? Let's Ask the Lord's Christ Himself.
Matt. 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you (When reading the Law and Prophets) observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, (Read the words) and do not. (Teach the words)
4 For they (Pharisees, not God as your doctrine implies) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
And again;
Ez. 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.
This rebellion and stubborn unwillingness to accept God's Instruction, is the Yoke their father's couldn't bear.
But not the Faithful. They took the Yoke of Christ upon themselves.
Num. 14:22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it:
24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.
And Faithful Zacharias.
Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Notice that Zacharias knew the Christ when HE came, but the Pharisees who carried the "Yoke" of their Father's did not.
Also notice that you and the Pharisees in Jerusalem all accused the Apostles of teaching against the Laws of God. But in the end it seems the Apostles were directing the Gentiles away from the doctrines of the Mainstream Religions of their time and directing them toward the Oracles of God Himself.
Acts 15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, ( Law of Moses) and from fornication, (Law of Moses) and from things strangled, (Law of Moses) and from blood. (Law of Moses)
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
And Peter did this, in my view, because Jesus directed him to do the EXACT same thing.
Matt. 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
So according to the Holy Scriptures, the Doctrine you are promoting which teaches the Apostles of the Christ of the Bible taught Gentiles against God's Commandments is just untrue. Not because I said so, or the Pope, or Jim Baker. But because when we examine the Oracles of God, which the Christ has so graciously delivered into our own homes, we find the Truth.
Now come the real test of our faith. Can we accept what we find?
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I appreciate your open mindedness and there is lot of scripture that was shared with you here. When I am unsure about something I earnestly pray and ask God for the Holy Spirit to guide me to the Truth. At the end of the day, the Truth is what matters, God knows our hearts, our thoughts, our actions, the only person we can fool by not opening our ears to learn the Truth is ourselves. God bless and I hope the information you received is fruitful.
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Kilk1
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I think I'm starting to see what you're saying. Basically, are you saying that Romans 6 unlocks the meaning of Romans 7 and that, when read together, what we're really being told in Chapter 7 is that we died to sin? In other words, are you saying "the law" in Chapter 7 is not the law of Moses or the Ten Commandments but rather, sin itself?
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Sorry for my late reply. I do see similarities to these scriptures and the second covenant and also with the second coming of Jesus.
Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
My pastor stated in a sermon I recently listened to, the first few chapters in the Bible is how we are separated from God by sin, the meat of the Bible is how to get back in the presence of God and the last chapters in the Bible is how we are united.
The theme of the Bible is knowing God, obey and love. To obey is love. 1 John 5:2-3 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
In the second covenant God writes His laws in our hearts and minds. We obey God's laws because we love him through our actions and our thoughts. Keeping the Sabbath is such a blessing. My heart is with God everyday, but Sabbath is so special. I am looking forward to the promises of the Bible
Isiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.
How amazing will it be to worship with God on His Sabbath! God bless
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fhansen
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And all of this is basically Catholic teaching, teaching which, incidentally, conflicts with the theology of many Protestant denominations and individuals. The only argument with Catholicism-and other ancient churches in the east for that matter- is whether or not man's obligation to continue to obey the ten commandments is compromised by altering the way one of them is observed, one, BTW, that does not directly involve immoral acts that are part of what the Church considers "natural law", law which is a direct reflection of God's divine and eternal law already written in the hearts of men but which fallen man often fails to read in his own heart, as Augustine put it.
"God wrote on tablets of stone that which man failed to read in his heart."
I would only point you back to your post #2 and ask why, pray tell, would anyone even bother to bring up the matter of sunworship and the first day's relationship to it, with all the data you posted about it, if they weren't asserting that sunworship impacted Catholicism?
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Hello
Very interesting link, thank you.
Here is a quote from the link you posted;
“Constantine's calendar was modified slightly by Pope Gregory into the calendar used today. However, the true Calendar ordained at Creation, according to Genesis 1:14 and Psalms 81:3, is based on the phases of the Moon. Therefore, neither Saturday nor Sunday is the Old Testament Sabbath, and the International Date Line is not involved at all.”
If this is correct, it seems like neither Catholic, Protestant or SDA worship on the Jewish Sabbath, (or the Jewish first day.)neither do the Jews for that matter.
Thanks again for the enlightenment.
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