Will all men be resurrected or only Christians?

ewq1938 · Dec 21, 2020

d taylor said:
So works are sins, interesting redefining.

A work is something you have done. A work can be good or bad. An example of a bad work would be stealing. That's a sin, therefore the work is a sin that can be judged. The people being judged at the GWTJ are those who weren't worthy of the first resurrection so they are the unsaved and thus their works are sinful works. Being judged for their works is the same thing as being judged for their sins.

d taylor · Dec 21, 2020

ewq1938 said:
A work is something you have done. A work can be good or bad. An example of a bad work would be stealing. That's a sin, therefore the work is a sin that can be judged. The people being judged at the GWTJ are those who weren't worthy of the first resurrection so they are the unsaved and thus their works are sinful works. Being judged for their works is the same thing as being judged for their sins.

So the Messiah did not take away the sin of the world.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

ewq1938 · Dec 21, 2020

d taylor said:
So the Messiah did not take away the sin of the world.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Sin is only taken away from someone if they are a believer in Christ and they ask for forgiveness and are forgiven. A large number of people do not believe in Christ and do not repent of their sins and they will be judged according to those sins/works they committed. Those are the ones being resurrected at the GWTJ in Revelation 20. All men will be resurrected and all men will be judged according to their works/sins unless those have been forgiven which means to be removed.

d taylor · Dec 21, 2020

ewq1938 said:
Sin is only taken away from someone if they are a believer in Christ and they ask for forgiveness and are forgiven. A large number of people do not believe in Christ and do not repent of their sins and they will be judged according to those sins/works they committed. Those are the ones being resurrected at the GWTJ in Revelation 20. All men will be resurrected and all men will be judged according to their works/sins unless those have been forgiven which means to be removed.

Not what the Bible verses state.

d taylor · Dec 21, 2020

ewq1938 said:
Sin is only taken away from someone if they are a believer in Christ and they ask for forgiveness and are forgiven. A large number of people do not believe in Christ and do not repent of their sins and they will be judged according to those sins/works they committed. Those are the ones being resurrected at the GWTJ in Revelation 20. All men will be resurrected and all men will be judged according to their works/sins unless those have been forgiven which means to be removed.

Oh ok i see now where you are coming from, believing in a work type of salvation (repenting from sin)
So i see why you see works as sin and works from sin as salvation

I will just leave you with your belief.

Neogaia777 · Dec 22, 2020

Being judged according to their works in that passage in Revelation where it says it/that, can mean any number of things, as it is sometimes translated deeds and such also, etc...

But it basically means, and if I can maybe do my best to try to sum it up for you, it means "according to who and how and what they were in this life", while they were in this life, etc...

The way they treated others, saw others, etc, the world around them and the people in it, etc, the actions/inactions, or choices and decisions they made, etc, "all of it" basically, etc, behavior also, etc, etc, etc...

Did they make very foolish decisions, or act or choose or be or behave very foolishly in this life, etc, but according to God (and not us) in that aspect, etc, etc, etc, while in this life, etc...

Or judged "according to who and how and what they were in this life", while in this life, etc... Or maybe "who and what they were or how they became by the end of this life", etc, maybe as well maybe, etc...

Anyway, my point is it doesn't mean just works in the way that some are seeing it here, because it has very much more deeper, and very much more broader, and much much more far far reaching implications than just that, etc...

Judged for who you are, and what you were, and more importantly, who you became before or by the end of this life, while or during your time here in this life, etc...

That is what people will be judged by or for, etc...

But again, according to God, and in His eyes, and not us, or in our own eyes, etc.... And most definitely not "anyone else in our eyes", etc... And you'd do very well to most especially remember that last part very very carefully, etc...

And I'm betting a major part of that judgement, will be whether or not His Son had any kind of effect on that and you (or me) in this life as well maybe also maybe, etc...

But again "we" are not to ever judge that, etc, most especially for another, or among one another for or as it pertains to one another, etc...

But only God and God only, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Dec 22, 2020

Neogaia777 said:
Being judged according to their works in that passage in Revelation where it says it/that, can mean any number of things, as it is sometimes translated deeds and such also, etc...

But it basically means, and if I can maybe do my best to try to sum it up for you, it means "according to who and how and what they were in this life", while they were in this life, etc...

The way they treated others, saw others, etc, the world around them and the people in it, etc, the actions/inactions, or choices and decisions they made, etc, "all of it" basically, etc, behavior also, etc, etc, etc...

Did they make very foolish decisions, or act or choose or be or behave very foolishly in this life, etc, but according to God (and not us) in that aspect, etc, etc, etc, while in this life, etc...

Or judged "according to who and how and what they were in this life", while in this life, etc... Or maybe "who and what they were or how they became by the end of this life", etc, maybe as well maybe, etc...

Anyway, my point is it doesn't mean just works in the way that some are seeing it here, because it has very much more deeper, and very much more broader, and much much more far far reaching implications than just that, etc...

Judged for who you are, and what you were, and more importantly, who you became before or by the end of this life, while or during your time here in this life, etc...

That is what people will be judged by or for, etc...

But again, according to God, and in His eyes, and not us, or in our own eyes, etc.... And most definitely not "anyone else in our eyes", etc... And you'd do very well to most especially remember that last part very very carefully, etc...

And I'm betting a major part of that judgement, will be whether or not His Son had any kind of effect on that and you (or me) in this life as well maybe also maybe, etc...

But again "we" are not to ever judge that, etc, most especially for another, or among one another for or as it pertains to one another, etc...

But only God and God only, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

When Jesus talks about the Judgment that either came or was coming into or to the world in John shortly after John 3:16, the word "works" is used there commonly also, but is also sometimes translated deeds and such also, etc...

And I wouldn't at all be surprised if the word "works" or "deeds" used there, is the same thing that I am saying here (above) about the resurrection and Judgement in Revelation also, etc, because "they" (themselves) were evil, etc, who they are or were was evil, and all evil and continually evil, during all of their time here, etc...

So they hate the light, do not come to it, etc, so they will not be exposed as having been evil, because they just are and will continue to be evil, etc...

Not just their "works" as we tend to commonly think of it and/or use the word or term most of the time, etc, but it is "all of them", etc, and is "everything about them that is them", etc, continually evil all of the time, and never changed, etc...

All of their choices, actions or inactions, decisions and behavior, etc, who they are or were, and for some, were going to continue to go on to be continually being, etc, was all evil continually and all of the time, etc, and they never changed it, or that never ever changed at all ever, etc...

And they hated the light and did come or go to it, etc, etc, etc...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Dec 22, 2020

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Neogaia777 · Dec 22, 2020

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zoidar · Dec 22, 2020

Cis.jd said:
But not only is Jesus God but his body was a corpse no more than 3 complete days. We are talking about bodies who have been decomposed for so many years and others that have been cremated.

I started a new thread where we can discuss this:

Will we be resurrected with physical bodies?

Gregory Thompson · Dec 22, 2020

BobRyan said:
Matt 7 "not everyone who says to Me 'Lord , Lord' will enter"

Slightly discouraging for people today, these people saying Lord, Lord, could do a lot of things we (or most) cannot do today. These things listed as "not a qualifier" are done by faith - so it stands to reason, by what basis are people acknowledged as known by Him.

Bruce Leiter · Dec 22, 2020

garee said:
Contrasting eternal life with no life or the temporal what we call life is death, the sufferings of hell. There is no sufferings beyond the grave.

That kind of idea does despite to the grace of God and promotes working beyond the grave .making way for doctrines of men like purgatory, clearly doing despite the the fulness of grace. God does not give a unknown remnant of grace.

The wage of sin according to the letter of the law is death.. . itself

Death consists of a living sufferings that the bible calls hell as in dying (approx. 70-80 years) This is when a person takes their last breath.

What confuses the doctrine of God is when men add the doctrine of men teaching there is life after one enters the grave.

The second death, the death of death. Mankind's dead bones will not be resurrected and judged

I believe that you're using your own reasoning, not the teachings of Scripture. The Bible shows clearly that God is not only gracious but that he is also the just Judge. Eternal separation from him is the penalty of humans' rebellion against him. It's the penalty people choose in this life in living without him and the one, sadly, they experience beyond death, as Revelation 20 says, in the lake of fire or as Jesus says, in outer darkness where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

BobRyan · Dec 22, 2020

Michael Collum said:
by what basis are people acknowledged as known by Him.

If they hear the words of Christ AND act on them. Matt 7

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

garee · Dec 22, 2020

Bruce Leiter said:
I believe that you're using your own reasoning, not the teachings of Scripture. The Bible shows clearly that God is not only gracious but that he is also the just Judge. Eternal separation from him is the penalty of humans' rebellion against him. It's the penalty people choose in this life in living without him and the one, sadly, they experience beyond death, as Revelation 20 says, in the lake of fire or as Jesus says, in outer darkness where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Yes outer darkness without Christ in this world, the place of a dying anger . No literal work in the grave like gnashing teeth (anger) .Possibly rattling bones blown in the wind.

Eternal separation is the wage of sin, in dying a person will come to the end of life. No sufferings in the graves. Hell is the living sufferings we experience in these bodies of death .

The temporal corrupted bodies return to the dust and the temporal spirit under the letter of the law death (you shall surely die) returns to the father of all spirit life. Those who have freely been given a new spirit and heart as sons of God they will rise on the last day and receive the promise (Hebrew 11:40)

Ecclesiastes 12: Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Bruce Leiter · Dec 23, 2020

BobRyan said:
If they hear the words of Christ AND act on them. Matt 7

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; leave Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts on them, will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain fell and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 And everyone who hears these words of Mine, and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Yes, it takes both believing and doing God's will in his Word.

chad kincham · Dec 25, 2020

zoidar said:
I read somewhere that there was an idea held by a part of the Early Church that only Christians would be raised from the dead. I have always taken for granted that everyone that lived will be risen from the dead and stand before God on judgement day.

If we for an example read 1 Cor 15, I'm not sure it's talking about everyone being resurrected.

But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all (all men) die, so also in Christ all (all in Christ, see Romans below) will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.
— 1 Corinthians 15:20-24

So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.
— Romans 5:18-19

What do you think?

Easy to answer that question:

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All get raised, the saved and the damned.

garee · Dec 26, 2020

chad kincham said:
Easy to answer that question:

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All get raised, the saved and the damned.

Us that have not went out from those born again apposed to them that never entered in. They crucify Christ over and over exposing him to public shame as if one outward demonstration was not enough to please the good will of the father .Better thing accompany those who do believe to the salvation of their souls.

All as to how many the father gave the Son will rise to newness of life They will not rise to judgement ..

Not all created as the first birth, the birth of the flesh in need of the breath of God. God in Genesis breathed the temporal breath of spirit life subjected to the letter (death) .A person must be born again from above.

All or as many that have been given a new spirit that will never die.

All that return to the dust from where they were taken and their temporal spirits that were given under the letter of the law, death, They will never to rise to new spirit life and a new body that will never die or grow old .

Bruce Leiter · Dec 26, 2020

chad kincham said:
Easy to answer that question:

Joh 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All get raised, the saved and the damned.

That's right. And then the final judgment takes place--all after Jesus returns.

BobRyan · Dec 26, 2020

Rev 19 - Jesus' second coming. Literal visible. Happens after the tribulation. This is also 1 Thess 4:13-18
Rev 20:1-5 is continuation of Rev 19 - the first resurrection ... is the resurrection of the saints.
Rev 20 -- 1000 years -- literal
Rev 20 -- second resurrection -- and this time it is just the wicked. They are all cast into the lake of fire (Judgement ALWAYS precedes punishment.. Nobody gets into the Lake of Fire (Fiery hell) before they are judged).

Rev 20 earth and its works consumed by fire - as 2 Peter 3 predicts.

Rev 21:1-3 a New Heavens and New Earth - a reset/remake of this world after being cleansed by fire

Bruce Leiter · Dec 28, 2020

BobRyan said:
Rev 19 - Jesus' second coming. Literal visible. Happens after the tribulation. This is also 1 Thess 4:13-18
Rev 20:1-5 is continuation of Rev 19 - the first resurrection ... is the resurrection of the saints.
Rev 20 -- 1000 years -- literal
Rev 20 -- second resurrection -- and this time it is just the wicked. They are all cast into the lake of fire (Judgement ALWAYS precedes punishment.. Nobody gets into the Lake of Fire (Fiery hell) before they are judged).

Rev 20 earth and its works consumed by fire - as 2 Peter 3 predicts.

Rev 21:1-3 a New Heavens and New Earth - a reset/remake of this world after being cleansed by fire

What you present is one interpretation; there are at least four other. How can you be sure that yours is correct?

Will all men be resurrected or only Christians?

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