Sweden may have the answer to America’s gun problem

98cwitr said:

While I am strongly tempted to spark the debate of your enumerated list of "rights" I must refrain. Instead, I will say that Americans, even the absolute poorest among us, have access to food, water, healthcare. The critical piece missing is "decent upbringing."

14.9% in UK: Single Parent Statistics 2019 UK
23% in US: U.S. has world’s highest rate of children living in single-parent households

As a product of divorce and being raised in a single parent home, I can directly attest to the detriment of such a situation over the longevity of a child's developmental years.

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Especially if the custodial parent is the mother, worse yet if the father isn't involved.

Confused-by-christianity said:

They are saying that most gun deaths are actually suicide. Next is homicide.

I’m sure the videos provided nothing new to people who are actively involved in the debate.

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My research indicates that each event must be closely examined, not lumped into a batch of statistics. The devil's in the details.

OldWiseGuy said:

Especially if the custodial parent is the mother, worse yet if the father isn't involved.

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What did that statement mean btw??
I never knew but didn’t ask haha
What’s the enumerated rights debate??

OldWiseGuy said:

My research indicates that each event must be closely examined, not lumped into a batch of statistics. The devil's in the details.

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They say statistics is an art not a science haha

Confused-by-christianity said:

They say statistics is an art not a science haha

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You can make statistics say just about anything you want them to say.


Actual: Half the people make $100,000, half make nothing.

Statistically: The average income is $50,000 per year.

OldWiseGuy said:

You can make statistics say just about anything you want them to say.


Actual: Half the people make $100,000, half make nothing.

Statistically: The average income is $50,000 per year.

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Statistics are a lazy person's way of viewing things. Not good. Worse is that the actual data is not generally available from which the statistics are drawn.

Probably listening, with empathy, to both sides of the story is imperative if a workable solution is to be found.
By empathy - I mean - you need to understand what the other side is saying (not necessarily agree with their solution or proposal, but understand their view on the matter).
Seems to me one side feels guns are essential to political stability. They also seem to feel they are genuinely in an unsafe area and need the protection. So I’d assume that side feels that removing guns equals political instability and victim hood / vulnerability. So you’d be able to see what you’re asking them to surrender if you said “no guns”.
The other side seems to feel burdened by the guns rather than served by them. Like the guns free availability are a source societal anguish.

both sides seem to have very understandable points if you were in their shoes.

Yoko.52 said:

yeah but there not dead. I would rather see 37 mildly injured children than over 20 dead ones

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They were very lucky. That story linked to this one that tells about nine that died: At least 9 children stabbed to death at Chinese middle school. Nine kids dying at a school is still nine too many, no matter which weapon was used to do it.

Yoko.52 said:

All members of the National Guard of the United States are also members of the Organized Militia of the United States as defined by 10 U.S.C. § 246. National Guard units are under the dual control of the state governments and the federal government.

they are who the 2nd amendment was made for. and do not get me wrong I would have know problem with a someone owning a tank an 1k M16s....if they were properly trained, mentally sound, and no violent history....and here is the amazing part...in countries were you allowed guns that is how it works...you take classes like learning to drive...your learn rules how to properly and responsibly own and use a gun...you get a criminal and mental background check...and here is the amazing part it works...despite all the preaching from the gun lobby...common sense gun laws work...its not fake news...or fantasy...ITS FACT!!!

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The Constitution does not restrict this to the National Guard or any other militia:

OldWiseGuy said:

My dad insisted that we never point even toy gun at anyone.

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Well toys nowadays by law have to be painted orange on the end of the barrel.

BNR32FAN said:

Well toys nowadays by law have to be painted orange on the end of the barrel.

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When I was a kid toys gun were not very realistic. In fact my brother and I made most our toy guns. We once made Winchester rifles out of wood and finished them with orange shellac.

Years ago Time magazine did a survey on violence between Seattle Washington and Vancouver British Columbia, they found the rate of violence was the same, in America more guns were used, in Vancouver due to the absence of firearms it was more, knives, bats and clubs.
Seem the problem isn't the inanimate object used, it is the violent person.
Prisons have violence without firearms, that's why the fence or wall are around them.

Tolworth John said:

Those of us in Europe have always wondered why as the amendment to the constitutions says, that a militia is vital for the freedom of the people, they may bare arms.
Sorry if miss quoted, but to me if one wants to own a rifle, one should belong to a disciplined military unit that trains and enforces discipline on its members.

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The constitution makes clear that an armed militia made up of average citizens is important to remaining free - that militia is in addition to having a military force.

pescador said:

Are you trying to be provocative or cute? Either way, it's not funny. We have a severe gun problem in the US! There are too many people who use guns inappropriately, bringing danger to themselves and others. It's like giving 9-year-olds the keys to the family car; it's a guarantee that somebody will be hurt or killed.

The Second Amendment is about "a well-regulated militia", not a bunch of untrained, irresponsible people who want to take the law into their own hands (literally).

BTW, I am a lifelong shooter and hunter.

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The well regulated militia in that day was a civilian force, of armed farmers and other civilians, necessary in case the federal government got out of control at some point and civilians would have to reign it in.

States with concealed carry laws have less violent crime, because when potential victims are armed, criminals look elsewhere.

Chicago has the strictest gun laws alongside of the worst gun violence and deaths in the country.

Like it or not gun ownership here is a constitutional right.

Yes, and we know the hand of God moved to ensure this nation, dedicated to God was created. There are only 2 nations with such a heritage, Israel, created by God and the U.S.A., dedicated to God and established on Godly principles.
Rather than criticize the U.S.A. it would be better to work on ones own country/ nation to come up to such standards.
Especially here on a forum where Christians meet.
Of course the devil and his minions have fought the created order since the fall, that is the origin of violence, God's own walk in love, joy, peace, etc. the devil walks in the opposite, hate, violence, etc.

ss51 said:

Rather than criticize the U.S.A. it would be better to work on ones own country/ nation to come up to such standards.

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I wouldn’t consider the USA an example of what to strive for - but yeah, in principle, people should take the log out of their own eye before judging another.

You have my sympathy, you sound like a unhappy, negative, troll to make that statement on a forum where Christians who walk in love, joy, and peace, congregate.

ss51 said:

You have my sympathy, you sound like a unhappy, negative, troll to make that statement on a forum where Christians who walk in love, joy, and peace, congregate.

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Me??

chad kincham said:

States with concealed carry laws have less violent crime, because when potential victims are armed, criminals look elsewhere.

Chicago has the strictest gun laws alongside of the worst gun violence and deaths in the country.

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I don’t know the research - does it show conclusively that crime is lower, specifically because of conceal carry laws? Does it show that conceal carry laws would help chicago?

Does research show that these laws are good for society long term??

Confused-by-christianity said:

I don’t know the research - does it show conclusively that crime is lower, specifically because of conceal carry laws? Does it show that conceal carry laws would help chicago?

Does research show that these laws are good for society long term??

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No. It is a controversial claim at best.

Some data here

Effects of Concealed-Carry Laws on Violent Crime

Thinking logically. If you are a criminal are you really switching your state to commit your regular burglary or do you just take in to account that more people are armed and plan accordingly ?

Jonathan Walkerin said:

No. It is a controversial claim at best.

Some data here

Effects of Concealed-Carry Laws on Violent Crime

Thinking logically. If you are a criminal are you really switching your state to commit your regular burglary or do you just take in to account that more people are armed and plan accordingly ?

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Yeah - from my side - I’d have thought the big and obvious problem is that the whole of that community doesn’t commit crime “because” of a deterrent. That doesn’t ring stable to me.