Family/Friends who know the Gospel but don't believe it?

Jamdoc

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Dear Jamdoc,
I am concerned about your prayer go unanswered because you have not released forgiveness to those who offend you like Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn.

Many know what they had done wrong. Don’t we wish that they make amends for their pasts and repent and find God’s grace again?
We know they have offended many people but don’t harbor hate.

This is what we have heard:
But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. -1 John 2:11

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, -Matthew 6:14
but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -Matthew 6:15

May you release forgiveness to those who offend you and find your answered prayer.

I forgive them, but they're still not preaching a sound gospel and I wouldn't tell people to listen to their preaching, it's a difference.
 
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Cis.jd

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Really.
when she says
and I quote
"I don't need Jesus"
".... to be a good person". You are taking her out of context.

You can not blame people for not believing this in a practical sense just based off the hundreds of Christians who were horrible people in comparison to other people of different beliefs.
 
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Jamdoc

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".... to be a good person". You are taking her out of context.

You can not blame people for not believing this in a practical sense just based off the hundreds of Christians who were horrible people in comparison to other people of different beliefs.

.. and in her beliefs, being "a good person" is what gets you to heaven... not according to the bible.
 
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d taylor

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Younger, still 36.. either way.. there's a few differences.
So.. here's kinda what happened. My grandparents on my mother's side .. Grandpa was from a protestant family, Grandma from an Irish Catholic family. When they got together, Grandpa had to officially convert to Catholicism, but he disagreed with Catholicism, so they both ended up throwing out the baby with the bathwater to be together. They raised their family without religion and even didn't allow religious talk in the household, even though there were still devout Catholic family members on my Grandmother's side, they just saw religion as divisive and a source of conflict and would split families apart (it's not like Jesus even disagreed with that..). So my mom grew up.. no religion. She married a guy who had just come home from Vietnam, who had gotten into drug counterculture, and eastern mysticism. My dad.. I have no doubts is regretting his beliefs right now, he died in 2005 before the age of 60, but he influenced my mom into eastern mysticism, and new age. One of my only memories I still have of my earthly father, is him teaching me yin and yang. Because both of them were opposed to ORGANIZED religion, seeing it as a source of conflict, they came up with kind of their own belief system, mishmashing Judeo-Christian morality, with eastern mysticism philosophy, and naturalist origins, and new age spirituality.
With my mother it was always mother nature, never God. That's what me and my sister grew up with. As I grew up, I was outspoken with my naturalist beliefs, this painted a target on me for every Christian neighbor and friend we encountered that I had to be saved. Because my sister saw how much I was targeted by religious people, and not all of it was loving, some of it was bullying, and a daycare used to do things like lock me in the basement, she kept her beliefs close to her chest to avoid the same treatment I got. The distrust of organized religion was reinforced by that. Not all of it was bad though, of course I didn't get saved by people who tried to use punishment or bullying to conform me to their beliefs. What ultimately saved me was moving and my neighbors were a good Christian family with children the same age as myself and my sister and of course we became very good friends (really they're like family to me still). It led to vacation bible school, getting saved, going to church, doing community service and key club and campus life and youth for Christ and bible study on wednesday nights with one of my other friend's dads, etc. But my sister was still kind of hedged on her beliefs. They didn't go after her as much as they went after me, she got invited to bible school, and church occasionally, but she just didn't take to it.
For me what was transformative in my belief happened at vacation bible school. When people had tried to teach me Jesus before, they focused on my own works, they taught mostly a works based salvation. To which Jesus made no sense.. if it's about my works, why do I need Jesus? I was almost quoting my mother "I don't need Jesus to be a good person". The eye opener was, you can't be a good enough person to deserve heaven, so you absolutely needed Jesus. I was also taught more about Jesus as a person, and that was something that had been missing from prior attempts to save me. I'd been told Jesus was the Son of God, and our Savior, but then they flip it around and focus on my own works which makes me not understand why I need a savior if it's about how I live my life personally. Just saying He was the Son of God and was glorious also held no appeal to me, I simply don't care about power, glory, or titles, those by themselves don't make me want to spend forever with that person. You can be an all powerful, glorious God who's a colossal cosmic jerk after all.. many pagan gods are seen as such.
What appealed to me was how Jesus was actually as a person. He was compassionate, healing diseases and being merciful to people even to sinners that other people wanted to stone to death. He saw religious hypocrisy for what it was (and this really appealed to me because of bad experiences I had with some "religious" people). He was reaching out to people that "religious" people shunned like publicans and winebibbers. He appreciated humility, picking fishermen and a tax collector as His chosen followers, rather than 'great theologians". To Him the greatest in Heaven was like a little child, innocent, with faith, but not mighty or powerful, and simplicity was preferred over ceremony. The publican's prayer of "God be merciful to me a sinner" being preferred over the Pharisee's self righteous practiced prayer.
So 2 things for me had to click. I had to know why I needed Jesus and why I'd want to spend forever with Him.
Those things haven't clicked for my family yet.

Well with your sister being 36 and your 40, are yall still living near each other.

Does or did your sister ever have a looking up to her older brother or was she fairly independent.

This may help a little article from grace evangelical society
How to Share Our Faith Clearly and Comfortably by Evangelizing the Way Jesus Evangelized – Grace Evangelical Society
 
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Jamdoc

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Well with your sister being 36 and your 40, are yall still living near each other.

Does or did your sister ever have a looking up to her older brother or was she fairly independent.

This may help a little article from grace evangelical society
How to Share Our Faith Clearly and Comfortably by Evangelizing the Way Jesus Evangelized – Grace Evangelical Society

Oh, no, she's all the way across the country
still it's my sister, and I want her and her family to be saved.
 
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d taylor

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Oh, no, she's all the way across the country
still it's my sister, and I want her and her family to be saved.

So yall are communicating by phone, computer.

Sounds like she is married, if so what about her husband, is he another unbeliever.
 
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Jamdoc

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So yall are communicating by phone, computer.

Sounds like she is married, if so what about her husband, is he another unbeliever.
I'm not 100% sure. I know he grew up in a Christian Household and his mother is a believer. He doesn't announce it but he definitely follows the morality. Just never really seen him be overtly for Jesus like his mother.
I think when they first moved into their neighborhood they were looking for a church, so, it's possible that he's a believer but because she's not and she kind of keeps her beliefs close they just don't bring it up. They have differing politics as well.
Mostly talk over computer (zoom calls and such these days), sometimes phone.
 
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d taylor

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I'm not 100% sure. I know he grew up in a Christian Household and his mother is a believer. He doesn't announce it but he definitely follows the morality. Just never really seen him be overtly for Jesus like his mother.
I think when they first moved into their neighborhood they were looking for a church, so, it's possible that he's a believer but because she's not and she kind of keeps her beliefs close they just don't bring it up. They have differing politics as well.
Mostly talk over computer (zoom calls and such these days), sometimes phone.

Well as i am sure many have said prayer for her, that God may give her a mind to see the truth of the Bible.

Grace Evangelical Society has great resources for believers. There may be something there or there may be a free grace church near her that you might could direct her to, where she will find solid Biblical teachings.
As many churches today confuse and complicate the message of God free gift of Eternal Life for all who believe in Jesus.
 
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Jamdoc

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Well as i am sure many have said prayer for her, that God may give her a mind to see the truth of the Bible.

Grace Evangelical Society has great resources for believers. There may be something there or there may be a free grace church near her that you might could direct her to, where she will find solid Biblical teachings.
As many churches today confuse and complicate the message of God free gift of Eternal Life for all who believe in Jesus.

Actually a good thing, I hadn't really thought about my brother in law in all this, his beliefs might be important in all this, he just hasn't been vocal about it. I keep him in my prayers, but I had only really been considering her being saved and then him but it might work more in reverse, he could already be saved and would be probably more effective than anyone else (as a human at least) in reaching her.
 
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Aussie Pete

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What do you do about those family and friends. They have an academic understanding of what the Gospel is but what the bible says is simply not enough for them. Personal testimonies are not enough for them.
My sister understands the gospel, she just doesn't believe it. She's looking for some life changing personal experience that would actually make her believe. She's not opposed to Christianity or the gospel, but she just doesn't know what she actually believes.
I pray for her, because it's pretty apparent that God actually has to give her faith, because simply teaching her doesn't do it. She's been taught by many people for decades, including myself and her mother in law, but it just doesn't catch her.
My mother... well she's not HOSTILE to Christianity in that she knows I believe it and is fine with that. But she thinks it's just a guidelines for moral living, and "I don't need Jesus to be a good person" I have tried to explain that's not how it works that there ARE no "good persons" and that she needs a savior...
but between catholic teaching from a lot of my family in older generations (no offense to those who are Catholic but actually put their faith in Jesus Christ) for works based salvation and her disliking many prominent false teachers in the world like your Kenneth Copelands and Benny Hinns of the world.. it's like a wall gets put between what she takes in from teaching and her mind. She's blocked it off. She also doesn't like when pastors get passionate in their preaching and say things about being "blood bought" and "covered in the blood of Jesus" or talking about the power of the holy spirit, etc. She agrees with the moral teaching, she believes Jesus was a real person and a good teacher about how to live life morally.. but the most essential parts of the gospel she just refuses. She's stuck on it being her works and she's been led into new age and eastern mysticism and pantheism and universalism by my father when she was younger.. she combines that with the works based salvation of Catholicism to form her core beliefs. It's scary because I believe that is ultimately what the one world religion of the end times will be like, works salvation, combining eastern mysticism and catholicism, seeing Jesus as some sort of Enlightened Zen Buddhist teacher, with an abstract creator rather than a personal creator.
A very vivid dream I had weeks ago, basically set my sister's fate as uncertain and my mother as utterly rejecting Jesus.
So I don't really know what to do. my sister is looking for something that no human can give her, and my mother just rejects it and I'm afraid is on the path to believing the strong delusion (the age of aquarius).
all I can do is pray.
but so far that prayer has been unanswered.
It's the conundrum of the whole world that is in the control of the evil one. The amazing thing is not that people reject God's salvation, which seems insane to those who believe, but that anyone at all accepts the Lord Jesus as Saviour and Lord. Before I was born again, Christianity was to me, the Church of England. Eternity to me was sitting through a church service. There was nothing more boring.

Preaching the true gospel is the only answer. It cut through to my heart, convicted me of my sin and brought me to salvation in and through Christ. The best that we can do is live in such a way that our family sees the difference. I tried hard to get through to my kids and all I did was alienate them. Salvation is God's business, not mine.

The response to the gospel depends on the individual's heart. Those who are honest sinners will accept God's gift. Those who are self righteous need to see the truth about themselves. I know a woman with 6 children by 3 different men. She does drugs and drinks to excess. One of her children has cerebral palsy. She blames God. She believes that she is a good person. How do you get through to someone like that?
 
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Cis.jd

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.. and in her beliefs, being "a good person" is what gets you to heaven... not according to the bible.
it actually is.

Revelation states God will judge all based on their works (Rev 20:12).

If being a good person doesn't have any significance then morality is pointless. If God only cares about you acknowledging him, then he is a dictator and not a good/loving/holy God.
 
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Jamdoc

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it actually is.

Revelation states God will judge all based on their works (Rev 20:12).

If being a good person doesn't have any significance then morality is pointless. If God only cares about you acknowledging him, then he is a dictator and not a good/loving/holy God.
I seem to remember reading something that went a little like "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
What you're saying would mean Jesus died in vain.
That is blaspheming the atonement of Jesus Christ.
 
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jhjhh

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For preaching the gospel and not being received. I just leave you these verses without further insights of my own, might be useful or then not. Dont actually want to get very involved with this topic and how it is. So think those if they help, good.

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

65And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. John 6:65

14And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Matthew 10:14
 
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Jamdoc

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You say they know the gospel, do they know what happens if they dont accept the gospel?
They know, they just don't believe. To their credit, they won't "believe" something to act as an insurance policy the way some people do, where they don't really believe but do the lip service and go to church thinking it insures them just in case it's all true.
For Mom, there's a heaven, but the way in is just being a good person, no Jesus necessary, even though she believes Jesus existed and was a good teacher of morality. Similar to how some Buddhists view Jesus, believing He was an enlightened person.
For my sister, she doesn't even know if there's anything after this life. She believes that jesus was historically a person, but doesn't even know if she believes there is a God, of any kind.
 
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Cis.jd

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I seem to remember reading something that went a little like "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
What you're saying would mean Jesus died in vain.
That is blaspheming the atonement of Jesus Christ.

No, i'm not saying that. You can't cherry pick verses that talk about believing and leave out the rest about doing good. You have to take all of what the Bible says and not just specific verses that support your ideology.

Being a christian means more than just believing. Most importantly, God is not a dictator. A dictator only permits or grants someone to live if that person acknowledges him, so how is this different from what you are claiming God to be. The reality is, whether you realize it or not, your biggest selling point to Christianity is just so God doesn't kill you (Hell).
 
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Aussie Pete

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it actually is.

Revelation states God will judge all based on their works (Rev 20:12).

If being a good person doesn't have any significance then morality is pointless. If God only cares about you acknowledging him, then he is a dictator and not a good/loving/holy God.
You obviously don't believe the Bible or you have not read it. If "good" people go to heaven then Jesus died for nothing. It is clear from God's word that sin is the nature of man. Everyone is born in sin, dead to God and with no hope of saving themselves. God is God. People need to get over that truth. He is not going to change to suit human wishful thinking. He is holy and righteous. No sinner can enter His presence. Only those who are alive in Christ make it into heaven.

There are two judgements. One is for sinners who will be judged according to their works. They will not qualify for heaven. The Bible makes it clear that no one is righteous in God's sight. The believer has a different judgement. It's more like a prize giving ceremony. Those who deny themselves in this life will receive greater rewards in God's kingdom than those who lived for themselves. No born again believer will be found in the lake of fire. Many, many "good" people will be.
 
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Cis.jd

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You obviously don't believe the Bible or you have not read it. If "good" people go to heaven then Jesus died for nothing. It is clear from God's word that sin is the nature of man. Everyone is born in sin, dead to God and with no hope of saving themselves. God is God. People need to get over that truth. He is not going to change to suit human wishful thinking. He is holy and righteous. No sinner can enter His presence. Only those who are alive in Christ make it into heaven.

Nope, you did not read or just did not understand what you where reading. Before Christ, even a believer could not get into heaven. Jesus' death was so it was possible to go to heaven, period.

Think about this: Salem Witch Trials, they burned people alive but they believed in God.. so they go to heaven, with all of what they did being disregarded, while others who lived quite lives are going to hell? That is a holy and righteous God to you

Your post is practically saying that he doesn't care about good or evil, he just cares about getting attention.

There are two judgements. One is for sinners who will be judged according to their works. They will not qualify for heaven. The Bible makes it clear that no one is righteous in God's sight. The believer has a different judgement. It's more like a prize giving ceremony. Those who deny themselves in this life will receive greater rewards in God's kingdom than those who lived for themselves. No born again believer will be found in the lake of fire. Many, many "good" people will be.

What is the use of judging them when there is already a set result? Aside from this making no sense, your arguments are biblically wrong because Revelations has works as the qualifier to the book of life. So where are you getting this two judgements from?

"Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books." Revelation 20:12
 
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Aussie Pete

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Nope, you did not read or just did not understand what you where reading. Before Christ, even a believer could not get into heaven. Jesus' death was so it was possible to go to heaven, period.

Think about this: Salem Witch Trials, they burned people alive but they believed in God.. so they go to heaven, with all of what they did being disregarded, while others who lived quite lives are going to hell? That is a holy and righteous God to you

Your post is practically saying that he doesn't care about good or evil, he just cares about getting attention.



What is the use of judging them when there is already a set result? Aside from this making no sense, your arguments are biblically wrong because Revelations has works as the qualifier to the book of life. So where are you getting this two judgements from?

"Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to their works as recorded in the books." Revelation 20:12
Have a look at these links. What is the Judgment Seat of Christ / Bema Seat of Christ? | GotQuestions.org
What is the Great White Throne Judgment? | GotQuestions.org

I didn't get my knowledge from those links, but I am in agreement with their interpretations. Just cherry picking a verse is not helpful if you want the complete picture.
 
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