THE CHANGING OF GOD'S SABBATH TO SUNDAY WORSHIP?

nolidad said:

So many misapplications of SCripture in such a short space!. Your conclusion is dead wrong.

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In the days of JESUS many rose up to silence him. They put him to death because they could not receive His Word. They chose their traditions and teachings over the Word of God. These were the religious teachers of the day that would not hear the word of God. In them the scriptures were fulfilled in ISAIAH 6:9-10 where JESUS told His disciples...

"I talk to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of ISAIAH, which said, by hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." - Matthew 13:9-10

Our eyes and ears are only blessed by hearing and receiving God's Word. If we deny God's Word he will deny us and we will remain in our sins. Those who do not receive Gods' Words are full of accusations they cannot support by the scriptures. JESUS who was the living Word of God spoke the Word of God yet those who would not receive His Word said His Words were blasphemy and accused him of misleading the people. He was the living Word of God but those who would not receive his Words, accused him of being of the devil.

Nothing has changed today. We are told in the scriptures that those who do not receive Gods' Word will rise up against it and as JESUS tells us, "the servant is not greater then his Lord. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also." - John 15:20

Now I come to you with God's Word and God's Word is not my words but God's. In response you deny Gods' Word with your words which are not Gods' Word but yours, unsupported by scripture. If only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them. How can we see if we close our eyes and ears to hearing the Word of God?

nolidad said:

Show me one verse where God calls the church "Israel".

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God's ISRAEL is the name given by God to all those who believe and follow his word. God's ISRAEL is no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit *Romans 9:6-8. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL then we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27. You have been given the new covenant scriptures already (here) but it seems you choose not to see them because you do not believe them. If they are God's Word and not my words why do you not believe them?

nolidad said:

Yes the New covenant is for the whole house of Israel and Judah as it says in teh New Covenant. You are right , the church is not part of the new covenant! We are teh church and not the house of Israel and Judah

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As shown through the scriptures already (here) God's church are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. In the new covenant God's ISRAEL is no longer those of the flesh but those of the Spirit...

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

GALATIANS 3:28-29 [28], THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YOU ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS AND IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN YOU ARE ABRAHAM'S SEED FOR YOU ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS [29], and IF YOU BE CHRISTS, THEN ARE YOU ABRAHAM'S SEED, AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE.

If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL then we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27.

nolidad said:

Gentiles who believe do not mystically become "spiritual jews". We become part of teh one new man where there is neither Jew nor Greek, nor Israel.

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ROMANS 2:28-29 [28], FOR HE IS NOT A JEW WHICH IS ONE OUTWARDLY; NEITHER IS THAT CIRCUMCISION, WHICH IS OUTWARDS IN THE FLESH: [29], BUT HE IS A JEW WHICH IS ONE INWARDLY; and CIRCUMCISION IS OF THE HEART, IN THE SPIRIT, AND NOT IN THE LETTER; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

COLOSSIANS 3:11 [11], WHERE THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: BUT CHRIST IS ALL IN ALL.

ROMANS 10:11-13 [11], For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12], FOR THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JEW OR GREEK: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13], FOR WHOSOEVER SHALL CALL UPON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.

nolidad said:

And the promise to Abraham was made before the old covenant! We are heirs by promise not by covenant!

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ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

nolidad said:

Show the SCripture that says Gods Israel is the name given to all who believe and follow. I have read the NT over 200 times and can't remember a verse that even looks a little like that.

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The promise of God to Abraham that his descendant would be as the sand of the sea or start of heaven…

GENESIS 22:15-18 [15], And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time, [16], And said, By myself have I sworn, says the LORD, for because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son: [17], That in blessing I will bless you, and in MULTIPLYING I WILL MULTIPLY YOUR DESCENDANTS AS THE STARS OF THE HEAVEN, AND AS THE SAND WHICH IS UPON THE SEASHORE; AND YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL POSSESS THE GATE OF THEIR ENEMIES; [18], AND IN YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL ALL THE NATIONS OF THE EARTH BE BLESSED; BECAUSE YOU HAVE OBEYED MY VOICE.

Jacob a descendant of Abraham being 2nd born received the birth right from Esau...

GENESIS 25:31 [31], And Jacob said, Sell me this day your birthright. [32], And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point of death: and what profit shall this birthright be to me? [33], AND JACOB SAID, SWEAR TO ME THIS DAY; AND HE SWORE UNTO HIM: AND HE SOLD HIS BIRTHRIGHT UNTO JACOB. [34], Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentils; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus, Esau despised his birthright.

God’s promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through Abraham's descendant Jacob

GENESIS 32:11-12 [11], Deliver me, I pray you, from the hand of my brother, from the hand of Esau: for I fear him, lest he come and smite me, and the mother with the children. [12], AND YOU SAID, I WILL SURELY DO YOU GOOD, AND MAKE YOUR DESCENDANTS AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, WHICH CANNOT BE NUMBERED FOR MULTITUDE.

God changes Jacobs name to ISRAEL...

GENESIS 32:24-28 [24], And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day. [25], And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him. [26], And he said, let me go, for the day breaks. And he said, I will not let you go, except you bless me. [27], And he said unto him, what is your name? And he said, Jacob. [28], AND HE SAID, YOUR NAME SHALL BE CALLED NO MORE JACOB, BUT ISRAEL: FOR AS A PRINCE HAVE YOU POWER WITH GOD AND WITH MEN, AND HAVE PREVAILED.

The name "Israel" is only a name given by God himself to represent his people. The origin of the name "Israel" come from Genesis 32:28 where Jacob wrestled with the Angel and prevailed ...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. Its meaning is his posterity will rule as God. Jacob had 12 sons representing the 12 tribes of Israel.

ISRAEL (God’s new name given to Jacob) had 12 sons which make up the 12 tribes of ISRAEL

GENESIS 35:22-26 [22], ... Now the sons of Jacob were twelve: [23], The sons of Leah; Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, and Simeon, and Levi, and Judah, and Issachar, and Zebulun: [24], The sons of Rachel; Joseph, and Benjamin: [25], And the sons of Bilhah, Rachel's handmaid; Dan, and Naphtali: [26], And the sons of Zilpah, Leah's handmaid; Gad, and Asher: these are the sons of Jacob, who were born to him in Paddanaram.

God’s promise of the NEW COVENANT is to ISRAEL…

JEREMIAH 31:31-34 [31], Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL, AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH: [32], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; my covenant which they broke, although I was a husband unto them, says the LORD: [33], But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. [34], And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, says the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

144, 000 just prior to the 2nd coming come out of the 12 tribes of ISRAEL…

REVELATION 7:3-8 [3], Saying, HURT NOT THE EARTH, NEITHER THE SEA, NOR THE TREES, TILL WE HAVE SEALED THE SERVANTS OF OUR GOD ON THEIR FOREHEADS. [4], And I heard the number of them who were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand OF ALL THE TRIBES OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. [5], Of the tribe of JUDAH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of REUBEN were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of GAD were sealed twelve thousand. [6], Of the tribe of ASHER were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of NAPHTALI were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of MANASSEH were sealed twelve thousand. [7], Of the tribe of SIMEON were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of LEVI were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of ISSACHAR were sealed twelve thousand. [8], Of the tribe of ZEBULUN were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of JOSEPH were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of BENJAMIN were sealed twelve thousand.

Yeps, seems like God’s people are called ISRAEL in both the old and new testament scriptures till the end of time. The word Israel is a name that God gives to all those who believe and follow god’s word. Now what is it from these scriptures dear friend that you do not believe?

to be continued...

nolidad said:

But then again you forget that God has not forgetten the Jew and has made numerous specific promises to the nation of Israel that He said He WILL fulfill to the nation of Israel. Not some man made "spiritual Israel" who seek to rob Gods covenanted people of the promises God made specifically to them.

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Not really dear friend, I did not forget anything, as it is written in regards to the unbelieving Jews who have been pruned out of God's ISRAEL ...

Romans 11:17-23 [17], But if SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree; [18], glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root thee. [19], THOU WILT SAY THEN, BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, THAT I MIGHT BE GRAFTED IN. [20], WELL; BY THEIR UNBELIEF THEY WERE BROKEN OFF, AND THOU STANDEST BY THY FAITH. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR: [21], FOR IF GOD SPARED NOT THE NATURAL BRANCHES, NEITHER WILL HE SPARE THEE. [22], Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF. [23], AND THEY ALSO, IF THEY CONTINUE NOT IN THEIR UNBELIEF, SHALL BE GRAFTED IN: FOR GOD IS ABLE TO GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN.

If those unbelieving JEWS who have been broken off and separated from Gods' Israel choose to believe Gods' Word they will be able to be grafted back in.

nolidad said:

YOu seem to forget the words of the New Covenant. Jeremiah 31:31-34 King James Version 31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord: 33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

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Not really dear friend it was included with the scriptures you did not believe earlier here. Perhaps you did not see it because you did not believe the scriptures shared with you in the linked post above?

nolidad said:

1. According to you- you are a natural Israeli. You believe the new covenant is for you so your fathers were in the desert making you a natural Jew.

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Nope, said no such thing. Gods word not mine says Gods' ISRAEL are no longer are those born of the flesh but those who are born of the Spirit. Truly dear friend I say unto you unless a man is born again he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven *John 3:3-7.

ROMANS 9:6-8 [6], FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISRAEL WHICH ARE OF ISRAEL,: [7], NEITHER, BECAUSE THEY ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM, ARE THEY ALL CHILDREN: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called <Christ> [8], That is, THEY WHICH ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: BUT THE CHILDREN OF THE PROMISE <those who believe> ARE COUNTED FOR THE SEED.

nolidad said:

2. Which house are you of? The house of Israel (10 tribes) or the house of Judah (2 tribes)

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I was an outsider and I am of those grafted in because I believe and follow Gods' Word *Romans 11:13-27; John 10:26-27

nolidad said:

3. You claim we are the new covenant people. Okay so then---when were "those days" so that all the following occurred "after those days"

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Hebrews 8:8-12 [8], For finding fault with them, HE SAITH, BEHOLD, THE DAYS COME, SAITH THE LORD, THAT I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH; [9], Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers In the day that I took them by the hand to lead them forth out of the land of Egypt; For they continued not in my covenant, And I regarded them not, saith the Lord. [10], FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND, AND ON THEIR HEART ALSO WILL I WRITE THEM: AND I WILL BE TO THEM A GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE TO ME A PEOPLE: [11], And THEY SHALL NOT TEACH EVERY MAN HIS FELLOW-CITIZEN, AND EVERY MAN HIS BROTHER, SAYING, KNOW THE LORD: FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST TO THE GREATEST OF THEM. [12], For I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR INIQUITIES, AND THEIR SINS WILL I REMEMBER NO MORE. [13], In that he saith, A NEW COVENANT HE HATH MADE THE FIRST OLD. BUT THAT WHICH IS BECOMING OLD AND WAXETH AGED IS NIGH UNTO VANISHING AWAY. (from Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27)

“After those days” is in reference to the coming of the Messhiah who put an end to the old covenant at the cross in order to bring in God’s new covenant promise to all those who believe and follow Gods’ Word (Gods’ true ISRAEL).

nolidad said:

4. god said after those days He will be our God and we His people. and we will have His laws written in our hearts.

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True it is called a new covenant. Note the who the scripture promise is to? Yep God's ISRAEL. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentile believers are now grafted in according to the scriptures *Romans 11:13-27. These are God's Word dear friend, what is it you do not believe?

nolidad said:

5. Why o are you even writing on this thread? After all god said in the New covenant no one is goging to have to teach us to know the Lord! for we will all know HIm!

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He who God sends speaks the Word of God and God gives not the Spirit by measure unto him. Many walk in darkness because they close their eyes to seeing the light of Gods' Word. This is the condemnation that that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that does evil hates the light, neither comes to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that does truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are worked in God. There is only light in the living Word and it is this word that I point all to believe and follow. Cursed is every man that trust in man and makes flesh his arm. Many are following man-made teaching and traditions that break the commandments of God. Gods' people are in every Church living up to all the light that God has revealed to them. God is calling those who have eyes to see and ears to hear to come out of these man-made religious teachings of the world to return to him. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth. BABYLON has fallen. God is calling us to return to his Word. Those who have eyes to see and ears to hear will hear His Voice (the Word) and follow him.

nolidad said:

6. Don't you find it odd that if God said we would not need teachers, that God ordained Apostles, Prophets, Evangelist, pastors and TEACHERS! Did He forget that He already made us know HIm?

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God ordained the Apostles to give His Word to the world. Today we have the written Word of God given to the world. God's Word is our guiding light and it is the Spirit of the Word of God that is the guide and teacher in all those who seek JESUS with all of their heart. This is God's new covenant promise as shown in Hebrews 8:11; John 14:26; John 16:13; 1 John 2:27. These are God's Word not mine. Yet I see you do not believe them so your argument dear friend is with God not me whos words they are. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. I do not judge you. According to the scriptures it is the Word of God we accept or reject that becomes our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48

nolidad said:

To quote Ricky Ricardo: "Lucy!, You got some splaining to do!"

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Splaining done dear friend with Gods' Word (not my words), but to quote Jesus (and not Ricky Ricardo); "Many will be called but few will be chosen". Many today, believe not, because they choose to close their eyes and ears to hearing his Word. God's sheep hear His Voice (the Word), and He knows them, and they follow Him. *John 10:26-27. Time to leave Ricky Ricardo, he is giving you bad advice.

Now what is it you do not believe dear friend?

Your welcome.

atpollard said:

Luke 8:10 ... James 1:5
I cannot give you “ears to hear”, that is above my pay grade.

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True, that is Gods' job. He gives me ears to hear and eyes to see because I believe His Word and follow him. His Words are not my Words so what is it you do not believe?

atpollard said:

... sorry, chief, buy only 9 of the 10 Commandments were repeated by Jesus. The Sabbath was changed to “Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath” and we enter into HIS Sabbath rest. Show me where Jesus said “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy” in the Gospels. It isn’t there.

James warned you that you cannot pick and choose the Law like a Chinese menu with one from column A and two from column B. If you will follow the Law, then you must keep ALL of the law. If you are saved by grace, then you must lean with all of your weight on the grace of Christ.

I am free to praise God EVERY DAY, and not just on Saturday.

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It is true we all have free will and we are all free to do anything we like. I do not judge you as we all answer only to God come judgement day for the Word of God we accept or reject according to the scriptures in John 12:47-48.

You speak your own words in this post but they are not Gods' Word. JESUS being Lord of the Sabbath does not give us freedom to break Gods' Sabbath which is one of Gods' 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

According to James if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin in James 2:10-11. This includes God's 4th commandment. Sin is defined in the scriptures as breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments in James 2:8-10.

According to Paul, all those who knowingly practice sin will not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of Gods' grace in Hebrews 10:26-27.

According to JESUS (not me) those who follow the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God are not worshiping God in Matthew 15:3-9.

That being the case the question we should all be asking ourselves is who are we worshiping if we follow man made teachings and traditions that lead us away from God and his Word.

God is a Spirit and those who worship him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. God is calling us out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God. BABYLON is fallen, and those who do not receive Gods' call to leave will receive of her plagues according to the scriptures in Revelation 18:1-5.

Something to pray about dear friend.

Kilk1 said:

Thank you for your kind words! In the post before your last, you said that "it is not the law we are dead to it is sin." Just to make sure I'm following, does Romans 7:4 teach that Christians have become dead to the law? If so, would this mean we're no longer under it? We're not under what we've become dead to, is this correct?

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Hi Kilk,

Thanks for your post and nice to see you again. It will be a little tricky to understand this passage without first looking at the context to Romans 6. Let's add more of the subject matter context back to Romans 7:1-4 by seeing how Paul explains the same thing in Romans 6 and link them both together which I think will be helpful. Think of Romans 6 as the key to unlocking the meaning of Romans 7. We need the key to open the lock right? Romans 6 is that key.

Let's prayerfully look at the scriptures claiming Gods promise in John 14:26

ROMANS 7:1-4,
[1], Know you not, brothers, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives?

[2], For THE WOMAN WHICH HAS AN HUSBAND IS BOUND BY THE LAW TO HER HUSBAND SO LONG AS HE LIVES; BUT IF THE HUSBAND BE DEAD, SHE IS LOOSED FROM THE LAW OF HER HUSBAND.

[3], So then if, WHILE HER HUSBAND LIVES, SHE BE MARRIED TO ANOTHER MAN, SHE SHALL BE CALLED AN ADULTERESS: BUT IF HER HUSBAND BE DEAD, SHE IS FREE FROM THAT LAW; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

[4], WHY, MY BROTHERS, YOU ALSO ARE BECOME DEAD TO THE LAW BY THE BODY OF CHRIST; THAT YOU SHOULD BE MARRIED TO ANOTHER, EVEN TO HIM WHO IS RAISED FROM THE DEAD, THAT WE SHOULD BRING FORTH FRUIT TO GOD.

Note: Paul here actually continuing his thoughts from Romans 6 so to start in Romans 7 without Romans 6 is like starting a movie half way through not understanding the context of what has happened beforehand. Romans 7:1-4 is that of marriage and that a woman is bound by the law to her husband as long we her husband lives. The idea being expressed here is that we cannot walk in God’s Spirit and be married to Christ while we are living and practicing a life of sin. According to the scriptures sin is defined as breaking God’s law or not believing and following God's Word (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20; Romans 14:23). Romans 6 is like the beginning of the movie and sets the scene and is the key to understanding the subject matter of Romans 7 and Romans 8.

Let’s look at some of the context from and same subject matter from Romans 7 in Romans 6…

ROMANS 6:1-23

[1], WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, THAT GRACE MAY ABOUND?

[2], GOD FORBID. HOW SHALL WE, THAT ARE DEAD TO SIN, LIVE ANY LONGER THEREIN?

Note: so right away we can see here that Paul is not talking saying in Romans 7:4 that we are dead to the law and not free to break the law because sin is defined in God’s Word as breaking the law in 1 John 3:4 and it is through the law that we have the knowledge of what sin is in Romans 7:7. So Romans 7:4 is not saying we are dead to the law so that we can break the law!

[3], KNOW YOU NOT, THAT SO MANY OF US AS WERE BAPTIZED INTO JESUS CHRIST WERE BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH?

Note: This links into Romans 7:1-4 showing that Baptism is symbolic to dying with Christ into His death so that we can be raised up to walk in newness of life

[4], Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like AS CHRIST WAS RAISED UP FROM THE DEAD BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER, EVEN SO WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS OF LIFE.

[5], FOR IF WE HAVE BEEN PLANTED TOGETHER IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS DEATH, WE SHALL BE ALSO IN THE LIKENESS OF HIS RESURRECTION:

Note: so please pay attention to this next section as this also links into the example given in Romans 7:1-4 and shows that it is our old man that is crucified with JESUS that sin might be destroyed and we shows we walk in newness of life (Romans 6:4) by not serving sin and in the example given in marriage that we should become dead to the law by the body of christ; that you should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit to god (Romans 7:4.

[6], Knowing this, THAT OUR OLD MAN IS CRUCIFIED WITH HIM, THAT THE BODY OF SIN MIGHT BE DESTROYED, THAT FROM NOW ON WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN.

[7], FOR HE THAT IS DEAD IS FREED FROM SIN.

Note as shown in Romans 6:6-7 it is the sinful man that is to be put to death and crucified with JESUS who paid the price for our sins so that we should not serve sin! Now note v7 and compare it to the example of marriage and the woman in Romans 7:1-4. Now note Romans 6:7 FOR HE THAT IS DEAD (old mad) IS FREED FROM SIN (marriage to sin). So if our sinful nature has died with Christ we are free from our marriage to sin to be married to another Christ!

[8], NOW IF WE BE DEAD WITH CHRIST, WE BELIEVE THAT WE SHALL ALSO LIVE WITH HIM:

[9], KNOWING THAT CHRIST BEING RAISED FROM THE DEAD DIES NO MORE; DEATH HAS NO MORE DOMINION OVER HIM.

[10], FOR IN THAT HE DIED, HE DIED TO SIN ONCE: BUT IN THAT HE LIVES, HE LIVES TO GOD.

[11], LIKEWISE RECKON YOU ALSO YOURSELVES TO BE DEAD INDEED TO SIN, BUT ALIVE TO GOD THROUGH JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.

[12], LET NOT SIN THEREFORE REIGN IN YOUR MORTAL BODY, THAT YOU SHOULD OBEY IT IN THE LUSTS THEREOF.

[13], NEITHER YIELD YOU YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF UNRIGHTEOUSNESS TO SIN: BUT YIELD YOURSELVES TO GOD, AS THOSE THAT ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD, AND YOUR MEMBERS AS INSTRUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO GOD.

[14], FOR SIN SHALL NOT HAVE DOMINION OVER YOU: FOR YOU ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE.

[15], WHAT THEN? SHALL WE SIN, BECAUSE WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW, BUT UNDER GRACE? GOD FORBID.

………………

Ok dear friend I will leave you to prayerfully read the rest for yourself asking God’s guidance for his Spirit *John 14:26. Please read Romans 6, Romans 7 and Romans 8 together. Romans 6 is like the KEY that unlocks the meaning of Romans 7 and Romans 8. They are the same subject and not meant to be separated as there is not any chapters in these books. These were added in by the translators some time latter. Hope this is helpful.


God bless.

guevaraj said:

Brother, you don't realize it but you are fighting against God's will, who will not help to unify us on a human tradition. Sunday keepers do not think they are sinning because God is not apposed to their Sunday tradition just as Saturday keepers do not think that they are sinning even though they are both keeping a human tradition in contradiction to the biblical Sabbath. God is not going to unify Christianity in a human tradition. Correct your Sabbath keeping and then God will help you correct others to keep the Sabbath. Consider how your tradition ends the first day in an evening when it plainly says that the first day ends in a "morning". Human tradition has assumed that given is a beginning for the first day when no beginning is given and God expects us to find the beginning by working backwards from the given end of the first day. When it only takes one to find the other and God chose to give the end and not the beginning, our tradition forced our will for a beginning by rejecting the end as it shows our wrong assumption.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NIV)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

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Please dear friend, respect the OP here and stop posting this unbiblical nonsense in this thread or you will be reported for being off topic to the OP. This is just a friendly post to keep on topic to the OP of this thread. You have your own thread for your teachings. Please keep your discussion there with whoever wants to talk to you about them.

Thanks for your understanding.

LoveGodsWord said: ↑ Not really dear friend, I did not forget anything, as it is written in regards to the unbelieving Jews who have been pruned out of God's ISRAEL ...

Romans 11:17-23 [17], But if SOME OF THE BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, and thou, being a wild olive, wast grafted in among them, and didst become partaker with them of the root of the fatness of the olive tree; [18], glory not over the branches: but if thou gloriest, it is not thou that bearest the root, but the root thee. [19], THOU WILT SAY THEN, BRANCHES WERE BROKEN OFF, THAT I MIGHT BE GRAFTED IN. [20], WELL; BY THEIR UNBELIEF THEY WERE BROKEN OFF, AND THOU STANDEST BY THY FAITH. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR: [21], FOR IF GOD SPARED NOT THE NATURAL BRANCHES, NEITHER WILL HE SPARE THEE. [22], Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God's goodness, IF THOU CONTINUE IN HIS GOODNESS: OTHERWISE THOU ALSO SHALT BE CUT OFF. [23], AND THEY ALSO, IF THEY CONTINUE NOT IN THEIR UNBELIEF, SHALL BE GRAFTED IN: FOR GOD IS ABLE TO GRAFT THEM IN AGAIN

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Your response here...

nolidad said:

It is too bad you cut short Pauls thought here- you would not be so wrong!

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Not really dear friend but lets see why...

nolidad said:

Romans 11:25-30 King James Version 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. 29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance

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It is true that all of Gods Israel will be saved according to the scriptures but as proven in earlier posts through the scriptures God's ISRAEL in the new covenant are simply all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. I have never said that unbelieving Jews cannot be grafted back in if they choose to believe and follow God's Word so your point here is a mute one.

The context of Romans 11:13-27, shows that Gods ISRAEL is only a name given by God to all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. I think Romans 9:6-8 among many other scriptures show very clearly that unbelievers are not a part of God's ISRAEL and God's ISRAEL is not of the seed of the flesh but of the Spirit. Nicodemus did not understand what JESUS was saying when he said "Truly truly I say unto you unless a man is born again he cannot enter into the Kingdom of heaven in John 3:3-7. Jesus was trying to tell him that it is not your birthright that makes you Gods' people but believing and following Gods' Word.

The JEWS in the days of JESUS tried to make pretty much the same argument that your trying to say here. The scriptures that prophesied of the Messiah pointed to JESUS who is God's Word *John 1:1-4-14 says he came unto his own but his own received him not. That is God came to his people with the Word of God and they rejected God's Word while all the time claiming the reason why they are God's children was because Abraham was their father in the flesh and that they were the physical seed of Abraham therefore God's people (God's ISRAEL in the flesh). You can follow this in John 8:31-59.

Sounds familiar to what your arguing right?

JESUS starts off [31-32] by saying to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed; and you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

The response of the Jews in v33 was the same argument your trying to make here in this thread, notice. "We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free?" Jesus then responds by saying in v34-36 Truly, truly, I say to you, Whoever commits sin is the servant of sin but if the son shall make you free you shall be free indeed.

In v37 Jesus says I know that you are Abraham's seed; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you. The Jews responded by saying Abraham is our father in the flesh which is the same argument your trying to make as a reason someone is from God or not from God. Now notice the response of JESUS to them, Jesus replies If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham but now you seek to kill me, a man that has told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. in v39-40.

They did not know that it was God who was speaking to them. Their claim to being God's children was not what they believed and followed Gods' Word but because they where of the physical seed of Abraham. Yet JESUS denied these clams stating that God was not their father and they were not God's children because they did not believe and follow Gods' Word. JESUS clearly states in v40-44 that they were not the children of God but the children of the devil because they did not believe and follow Gods Word.

The response of the unbelieving Jews was the same as yours. These same children of the flesh did not believe God's Word and said JESUS who was the living Word of God of the devil and went to stone him to death because He told them the truth but they did not believe them. Paul explains it very well in the scriptures already provided to you that you do not believe.

Romans 9:6-8 Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Your arguments are the same one the unbelieving Jews tried to make to JESUS for being the children of God and Gods' true ISRAEL. JESUS and Paul state those of the flesh are not Gods Israel not me.

You of course are welcome to believe as you wish but your making the same arguments that the unbelieving Jews made in John 8:31-59 who rejected JESUS and tried to kill him. God's true ISRAEL according to the new testament are all those who believe and follow God's Word and are born again in the Spirit, not those born in the flesh and do not believe and follow Gods' Word.

Something to pray about.

nolidad said:

Even here Paul is quoting Jer.:31:31-34:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The New
covenant as written is for Israelis (house of Israel and house of Judah).

Based on the terms of the New covenant as written and not allegorized away- it is of Israelis alone and has not happened yet.

The Church age is a "hiccup" If you will between God dealing with the nation He made an everlasting covenant with!

The church is the OT mystery revealed which is god calling out of the Gentiles a people for his name combined with believing Jews, into one new man called the church, or the bride of Christ and Body of Christ.

And once teh full nember of Gentiles has come in- ALL ISrael will be saved as prophesied in Jer. 31:31-34 and Zech 13:

Zechariah 13:8-9
King James Version

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Ezekiel 20:33-38
King James Version

33 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord God.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.

Matthew 23:36-39
King James Version

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Read


All this refers to natural ISrael and not some "new Israel" who has mystically been made in teh NT.

BTW teh NT is not in effect-YET!

Jesius shed His blood to purchsde the New Covenant, and currently mediating the covenant.

If soemthing is being mediated, it has not gone into effect yet. Just like a union labor contrat. If they are mediating- the contract has not gone into effect yet! Jesus is mediatong with the natural Israel as said in Scripture.

me·di·a·tor
/ˈmēdēˌādər/
Learn to pronounce

noun

1. a person who attempts to make people involved in a conflict come to an agreement; a go-between.

If the New covenant was in effect, Jesus would not need to be a mediator for teh Jews to agree- Tjhey all would have agreed if the covenant is in effect.

Biblical mediator:

μεσίτης
Transliteration
mesitēs μέσος (G3319)
Greek Inflections of μεσίτης μεσίτῃ — 1x
μεσίτης — 4x
μεσίτου — 1x
Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: mediator (6x).
Outline of Biblical Usage G3319; a go-between, i.e. (simply) an internunciator, or (by implication) a reconciler (intercessor):—mediator.



If a covenant is being mediated with either one or both parties- that simply means teh terms are not yet agree to by at least one of the party (in this case natural Israel) and is thus not in effect yet!

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The new covenant was not in effect until after the death and resurrection of JESUS. The scriptures you provide here are pre death and resurrection therefore old covenant settings. According to the scriptures the new covenant does not take effect until after the death of JESUS.

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

So you really have not provided any scripture to support your belief.

Hope this is helpful.

nolidad said:

Those whom He chooses out from among the ethnos! We are a no nation nation. We jews and Gentiles joined in one new Man- the church, the bride of Christ, the elet, the predestined, But we have never become a mystical "new Israel".

As you love to quote Paul many times he interplayed Jew and Gentile as ethnos and not a "saved"(jews) and what ever you redefine Gentile to mean.

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A multitude or nation in the Greek for ethnos simply means a multitude which is in reference to the promise given by God to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It does not define who God's ISRAEL are according to the scriptures which have already been provided to you that show Gods' ISRAEL according to God's Word (not mine) in the new covenant are all those who believe and follow Gods' Word. If we are not a part of God's ISRAEL in the new covenant we have no part in God's new covenant promise which is to God's ISRAEL *Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27. Gentile believers are now grafted in *Romans 11:13-27.

Folks it would be good if we can get back on topic now to the OP which is...

THE CHANGING OF GOD'S SABBATH TO SUNDAY WORSHIP?

Thanks all.