LDS Why mormons believe angels are less than gods?

He is the way said:

There are some resurrected angels that are similar to or equal to God. The angels that are not yet resurrected do not have the same body.

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How can an Angel be equal to the gods? Isn't the station of an angel to be a servant for eternity?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

How can an Angel be equal to the gods? Isn't the station of an angel to be a servant for eternity?

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Our objective is to be one with God to the fullness and stature of Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | John 17:20 - 22)

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:12 - 13)

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:14 - 15)

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

I doubt that He is the way has become a prophet.

"Restrictions will be placed upon those who enter the terresstrial and telestial kingdoms, and even those in the celestial kingdom who do not get the exaltation; changes will be made in their bodies to suit their condition; and there will be no marrying or giving in marriage, nor living together if men and women because of these restrictions."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 2, p. 73

(Joseph Fielding Smith, Jr. served as the tenth president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from 1970 until his death in 1972. He was the son of former church president Joseph F. Smith and the great-nephew of LDS Church founder Joseph Smith.) Wikipedia

He is the way said:

Our objective is to be one with God to the fullness and stature of Jesus Christ:

(New Testament | John 17:20 - 22)

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:12 - 13)

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(New Testament | Philippians 3:14 - 15)

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

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I understand that's the Mormon view of things for us regular people on earth. How is it possible that there are angels equal to the gods? I suppose I could think of a hypothetical situation in Mormonism where one generation of angels has more power than say a much later generation of gods (since Mormons insist they will never have power equal to Heavenly Father) but that would be just speculation.

What makes you say that there are angels equal to the gods?

Ignatius the Kiwi said:

What makes you say that there are angels equal to the gods?

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Ignatius the Kiwi said:

I understand that's the Mormon view of things for us regular people on earth. How is it possible that there are angels equal to the gods? I suppose I could think of a hypothetical situation in Mormonism where one generation of angels has more power than say a much later generation of gods (since Mormons insist they will never have power equal to Heavenly Father) but that would be just speculation.

What makes you say that there are angels equal to the gods?

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Abraham was one of the great ones. His description is amazing:

(Old Testament | Genesis 26:4 - 5)

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

(New Testament | Luke 16:22 - 27)

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

Whether Abraham is equal to God I do not know. Perhaps it will take a billion or so years to have that equality and oneness with God. That being said our goal is to be one with God to the stature and fulness of Jesus Christ as mentioned in the Bible.

dzheremi said:

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Could it be Satan keeping people from their true goal? Do you think Satan wants us to reach our goal?:

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:12 - 13)

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Satan wants to sidetrack us from that goal.

He is the way said:

Could it be Satan keeping people from their true goal?

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Yes! Satan is the reason why you're Mormon. Satan is the reason why Mormonism exists. Period. End of story.

dzheremi said:

Yes! Satan is the reason why you're Mormon. Satan is the reason why Mormonism exists. Period. End of story.

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God will not prevent anyone from reaching their goal, nor will He force anyone to reach that goal. Satan can not force us to abandon our goal, but he can sure try. I have a clear picture of what our goal is as per the Bible. The Bible also states:

(New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 21)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Our goal is stated here to become joint-heirs with Christ. Let our goal be thus and nothing less.

He is the way said:

God will not prevent anyone from reaching their goal, nor will He force anyone to reach that goal. Satan can not force us to abandon our goal, but he can sure try. I have a clear picture of what our goal is as per the Bible. The Bible also states:

(New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 21)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Our goal is stated here to become joint-heirs with Christ. Let our goal be thus and nothing less.

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You believe the lies of JS over the written word of God's in His scriptures.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

mmksparbud said:

You believe the lies of JS over the written word of God's in His scriptures.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

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I have shown the truth directly from the Bible. We all have a goal and that goal is for us to be like Jesus Christ. None of the scriptures that were quoted are meant to detract us from that goal.

He is the way said:

I have shown the truth directly from the Bible. We all have a goal and that goal is for us to be like Jesus Christ. None of the scriptures that were quoted are meant to detract us from that goal.

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You need to take all of the bible, including the parts that contradict JS. You can not say that JS takes precedence over the bible and be right with God.

mmksparbud said:

You need to take all of the bible, including the parts that contradict JS. You can not say that JS takes precedence over the bible and be right with God.

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Some people believe that the Bible contradicts the beliefs of members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. Actually, as I have shown, the Bible reinforces the beliefs of members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. That being said there are parts of the Bible that are unclear, and the Bible does not answer all of our questions. The members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do believe the Bible to be the word of God. We worship the God of the Bible.

He is the way said:

Some people believe that the Bible contradicts the beliefs of members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. Actually, as I have shown, the Bible reinforces the beliefs of members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. That being said there are parts of the Bible that are unclear, and the Bible does not answer all of our questions. The members of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints do believe the Bible to be the word of God. We worship the God of the Bible.

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You have shown no such thing. That is why so many are leaving your church.

mmksparbud said:

That is why so many are leaving your church.

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That's quite the unsubstantiated claim! A recent PEW Research Center poll (See https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/) of American religious attitudes found those who identify as Protestant fell from 51% in 2009 to 43% in 2019. Those who identify as Catholic fell from 23% in 2009 to 20% in 2019. Those who identify as Latter-day Saints remained steady at 2% from 2009 to 2019.

mmksparbud said:

You need to take all of the bible, including the parts that contradict JS. You can not say that JS takes precedence over the bible and be right with God.

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What parts of the Bible do you believe contradict Joseph Smith?

mmksparbud said:

You have shown no such thing. That is why so many are leaving your church.

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Most of your disagreements are just opinions.

natitude said:

That's quite the unsubstantiated claim! A recent PEW Research Center poll (See https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/) of American religious attitudes found those who identify as Protestant fell from 51% in 2009 to 43% in 2019. Those who identify as Catholic fell from 23% in 2009 to 20% in 2019. Those who identify as Latter-day Saints remained steady at 2% from 2009 to 2019.

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And yet most metrics show that Mormonism is experiencing a decline quite similar to what is going on with the types of Christianity you mention -- it's just taking longer to reach such low numbers. For instance, since 2000:

• the percentage of Mormons raised in the religion who remain active as adults has fallen by 6-8% (with Millennials showing the greatest decline, to 62%);
• the percentage of those believing in key Mormon teachings like Joseph Smith's prophethood or God being an exalted person of flesh and bone are both down, again with Millennials showing the greatest decline (67% vs. 51% on the first question; 68% vs. 55% on the second)
• belief in the literal truth of the BOM is also down, again to a greater degree among Millennials than among older Mormons (62% vs. 50%)
• the Mormon population of Utah has decreased from 75% to 51%

(These stats, as well as others, come from Psychology Today's reporting of Jana Reiss' work, available here.)

In truth, the growth rate of the LDS religion has been smaller than the growth of world population in general every year since 2012, and even when compared to itself, in terms of percentage growth the last year it was over 2% was 2013. (Check out these tables from wikipedia's article on LDS membership history.)

This does not bode well for the future of Mormonism, particularly as a majority (57%) of Mormon Gen Xers have two or fewer children, in comparison to 1981 when the average LDS fertility rate was 3.31 vs. the nationwide average of 1.81. (See here.)

With their family sizes shrinking, their growth slowing to where it will possibly eventually stop or reverse (given the declining numbers of those who believe in specifically Mormon tenets, making them less than ideal proselytizers for Mormonism in particular), and their impending minority status in their previous geographic center of power, it sure sounds like Mormonism is in line for a future that looks an awful lot like Protestantism's or Catholicism's, at least in the United States. It'll just get there somewhat later than either of those kinds of Christianity, which I suppose is fitting for those who call themselves latter-day saints.

natitude said:

That's quite the unsubstantiated claim! A recent PEW Research Center poll (See https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/) of American religious attitudes found those who identify as Protestant fell from 51% in 2009 to 43% in 2019. Those who identify as Catholic fell from 23% in 2009 to 20% in 2019. Those who identify as Latter-day Saints remained steady at 2% from 2009 to 2019.

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I didn't give a percentage. It is not unsubstantiated, thank you for verifying. It is a fact that they are leaving. And people leave other churches also. And all have their reasons.

He is the way said:

Most of your disagreements are just opinions.

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Not as many as yours.