GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

SabbathBlessings · Dec 22, 2020

JLB777 said:
Are you saying if we don’t gather together on Saturday to worship the Lord it’s a sin that sends us to hell?

JLB

It's not what I say that matters. God defined from creation the day He deemed Holy Genesis 2:3 and commanded in Exodus 20:8-11

Breaking any of God's commandments is a sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7.

Jesus died to forgive us our sins 1 John 1:9 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

After Jesus forgave He also said and sin no more John 5:14 Afterward Jesus found him in the temple, and said to him, “See, you have been made well. Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon you.”

Once we know we are sinning, God wants us to change that behavior and He provides a Helper, the Holy Spirit to help keep the commandments of God. John 14:15-18 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

pescador · Dec 22, 2020

imge said:
It's not what I say that matters. God defined from creation the day He deemed Holy Genesis 2:3 and commanded in Exodus 20:8-11

Breaking any of God's commandments is a sin Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7.

So Jesus and His disciples were picking grain on the Sabbath... You should read the section in Matthew 12 that describes it. Hint of how it ends: "For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Also, you might want to (carefully and meditatively) Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

SabbathBlessings · Dec 22, 2020

pescador said:
So Jesus and His disciples were picking grain on the Sabbath... You should read the section in Matthew 12 that describes it. Hint of how it ends: "For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Also, you might want to (carefully and meditatively) Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

Are you insinuating that Jesus is a sinner? If so there is no hope for any of us. Jesus was accused of sinning. Jesus did not sin.

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
- Matthew 12:10

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
- Matthew 12:11

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
- Matthew 12:12

The same people accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath also crucified Him. Jesus never broke the Sabbath we are told to do good on His Holy day.

Do you really think this one verses wipes out all the scripture in the Bible telling us to keep the commandments of God? That's its okay to steal, lie, murder, vain His name and not keep His Sabbath Holy? If you get a ticket and ask the police officer to have mercy and he gives you grace from speeding and he decides to let you go, is it okay to speed off going over the speed limit? Do you think he is not going to pull you over again and give you a ticket now?

Jesus clearly said Mathew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

So does it make sense for Jesus to say I have not come to abolish the law but I came to abolish the law?

Mathew 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Heaven and earth has not passed friends

There is a lot more on this subject and if you really want to understand it this video explains it best for those interested. Wish I had more time today.

pescador · Dec 22, 2020

imge said:
Are you insinuating that Jesus is a sinner? If so there is no hope for any of us. Jesus was accused of sinning. Jesus did not sin.

And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.
- Matthew 12:10

And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?
- Matthew 12:11

How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.
- Matthew 12:12

The same people accusing Jesus of breaking the Sabbath also crucified Him. Jesus never broke the Sabbath we are told to do good on His Holy day.

Do you really think this one verses wipes out all the scripture in the Bible telling us to keep the commandments of God? That's its okay to steal, lie, murder, vain His name and not keep His Sabbath Holy? If you get a ticket and ask the police officer to have mercy and he gives you grace from speeding and he decides to let you go, is it okay to speed off going over the speed limit? Do you think he is not going to pull you over again and give you a ticket now?

Jesus clearly said Mathew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

So does it make sense for Jesus to say I have not come to abolish the law but I came to abolish the law?

Mathew 5:18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Heaven and earth has not passed friends

There is a lot more on this subject and if you really want to understand it this video explains it best for those interested. Wish I had more time today.

I can't believe that you're serious about what I wrote. I never said that Jesus was a sinner; you're twisting my words. I wrote about Jesus correcting the Pharisees about the Sabbath; apparently you should read it to understand His teaching.

Then you go off on some rant about the Ten Commandments and keeping the OT law, as though that's something Christians should be doing. The OT law was abolished when the New Covenant was introduced. (Why do you think it's called the New Covenant?)

If you put yourself back under the Law you are denying Christ's sacrifice.

Studyman · Dec 22, 2020

JLB777 said:
Please give us the scripture from Jesus or His apostles that teach us how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant?

What is your definition of the Christ's New Covenant? HE said:

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Since the Command to Keep the Sabbath of God is certainly God's Law, and He writes HIS Law on the heart's of His People, then why are you asking this question? Are you not His People?

[QUOTE
Do you believe it a violation of the Sabbath, a sin that displays hatred of our brother and the Lord, to gather and worship the Lord on Sunday rather than Saturday ?
JLB[/QUOTE]

I believe Paul when he spoke of the weak in faith.

Rom. 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Does the Word of God which became Flesh "Esteem" one day over the other?

Are we servant's of this God or another? Were we purchased by the Blood of this God, or another?

Where does the 7th Day Sabbath come from? Do Moses and the Prophet's tell God's People how to keep His Sabbath? Did Jesus follow their instructions?

I can't and am not here to "persuade" you of nothing more than trust and faith in the Oracles of God you have in your own Home. Listen to Moses and the Prophets as Jesus instructs. If you don't believe the Word's of Moses, you won't believe the Word's of Jesus. At least according to HIM, and I do believe Him. This is way more important than my words.

Luke 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Let the Christ Word's in the Oracles of God HE Delivered into your own Home, answer your questions, if you believe in them.

Studyman · Dec 22, 2020

JLB777 said:
Do you believe we are to be “doing this word” as the Church under the New Covenant, concerning the Sabbath law?

Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15

Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3

Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36

‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10

JLB

Phil. 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God,(Of the Bible) without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;

16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Studyman · Dec 22, 2020

pescador said:
I can't believe that you're serious about what I wrote. I never said that Jesus was a sinner; you're twisting my words. I wrote about Jesus correcting the Pharisees about the Sabbath; apparently you should read it to understand His teaching.

Then you go off on some rant about the Ten Commandments and keeping the OT law, as though that's something Christians should be doing. The OT law was abolished when the New Covenant was introduced. (Why do you think it's called the New Covenant?)

If you put yourself back under the Law you are denying Christ's sacrifice.

The Christ of the Bible promises and Defines HIS New Covenant in a Book called the "Holy Bible". I don't know what god you are speaking about, or where the New Covenant you are Promoting comes from.

But it is obviously not the New Covenant promised in the Holy Scriptures by the Christ of the Bible.

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I would ask you a couple of questions.

Before "After those Days" which I am assuming is the future time when Jesus becomes our High Priest, "how were God's Laws administered"?

And also, before "After those Days", how were sins forgiven?

This is called "Examining Scriptures" in an attempt to know the God of the Bible's Truth.

I will wait for your answer.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 23, 2020

pescador said:
So Jesus and His disciples were picking grain on the Sabbath... You should read the section in Matthew 12 that describes it. Hint of how it ends: "For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”

Also, you might want to (carefully and meditatively) Romans 7:6, "But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

God does not release us from the law so we are free to break the law. That is not biblical. Those who have receive God's forgiveness of sin and receive God's grace by confession and repentance are free from the penalty of the law which is condemnation and death as shown in Romans 6:1-23 which is the context of Romans 7 and Romans 8:1-4 where it is written

Romans 8:1-4
[1] THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.
[2], FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS HAS MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

....................

It is the law of sin and death and condemnation we are freed from to walk in the Spirit of life. If we continue in sin (breaking God's commandments) according to the scriptures we will die.

Romans 8:13, For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, YOU SHALL DIE.

Romans 6:23 For the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hope this is helpful

SabbathBlessings · Dec 23, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
God does not release us from the law so we are free to break the law. That is not biblical. Those who have receive God's forgiveness of sin and receive God's grace by confession and repentance are free from the penalty of the law which is condemnation and death as shown in Romans 6:1-23 which is the context of Romans 7 and Romans 8:1-4 where it is written

Romans 8:1-4
[1] THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THEM WHICH ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.
[2], FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST JESUS HAS MADE ME FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.
[3], For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
[4], THAT THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MIGHT BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH, BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT.

....................

It is the law of sin and death and condemnation we are freed from to walk in the Spirit of life. If we continue in sin (breaking God's commandments) according to the scriptures we will die.

Romans 8:13, For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, YOU SHALL DIE.

Romans 6:23 For the WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH but the gift of God is eternal life through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Hope this is helpful

It's always interesting when people refer to Romans as an argument thinking these verses means there is no law. The only law that seems to be a concern is God's Holy seventh day Sabbath, the only one He emphasized by starting it with "Remember" but yet that is the one commandment some people think we now need to forget. It's never look here in Romans, the law is wiped out now I can lie and steal etc. God went out of His way to define His commandments.

Can people in good conscience read these verses and really think these verses only means 9 commandments?

Deuteronomy 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

John 14:21 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. (what commandment has the word holy in it? Only one uses that word yet its the one we are to forget?)

Mathew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23: And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

God is unchanging which means His law is eternal
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever

Anyone thinking anything different will not have explain their reasons to us, God is the one we have to answer to and it seems He made it clear by this scripture: Mathew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23: And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

How do we know God according to the scriptures: 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

SabbathBlessings · Dec 23, 2020

pescador said:
I can't believe that you're serious about what I wrote. I never said that Jesus was a sinner; you're twisting my words. I wrote about Jesus correcting the Pharisees about the Sabbath; apparently you should read it to understand His teaching.

Then you go off on some rant about the Ten Commandments and keeping the OT law, as though that's something Christians should be doing. The OT law was abolished when the New Covenant was introduced. (Why do you think it's called the New Covenant?)

If you put yourself back under the Law you are denying Christ's sacrifice.

I wasn't sure your point about picking grain on the Sabbath, but I am glad we can agree that Jesus never sinned.

The old covenant is found in Exodus 20- Deuteronomy 4:13 13 He declared to you His covenant, the Ten Commandments, which he commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.

His laws, the 10 commandments is the old covenant

The new covenant

16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”

His laws are the 10 commandants, notice it does not say the laws are "done away with" we can now sin freely. His 10 commandments are to be written in our heart (because we love God and want to keep His commandments, just like these scriptures reinforce John 14:15, 1 John 5:3) and actions. God also promises the Holy Spirit to let us know when we are sinning and to help keep us from sinning. John 14:15-18

God bless

LoveGodsWord · Dec 23, 2020

imge said:
It's always interesting when people refer to Romans as an argument thinking these verses means there is no law. The only law that seems to be a concern is God's Holy seventh day Sabbath, the only one He emphasized by starting it with "Remember" but yet that is the one commandment some people think we now need to forget. It's never look here in Romans, the law is wiped out now I can lie and steal etc. God went out of His way to define His commandments.

Can people in good conscience read these verses and really think these verses only means 9 commandments?

Deuteronomy 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

John 14:21 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Romans 7:12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. (what commandment has the word holy in it? Only one uses that word yet its the one we are to forget?)

Mathew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23: And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Mathew 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Revelations 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

God is unchanging which means His law is eternal
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever

Anyone thinking anything different will not have explain their reasons to us, God is the one we have to answer to and it seems He made it clear by this scripture: Mathew 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23: And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

How do we know God according to the scriptures: 1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.

Yes I agree sis imge, sadly I think it is because many try and read things into scripture that the scriptures do not say or teach instead of letting the scriptures speak for themselves seeking to know
God's Word through the teachings and traditions of men, instead of trying to seek God's truth for themselves through his Word, asking God to be their guide and teacher. This is exactly what happened in the days of JESUS in Matthew 15:3-9 and if we are honest we can see this happening with Christianity today. Many of the Church's of the world today in fulfillment of the words of JESUS in Matthew 24:24 have departed God and his Word. I believe God's people are in every Church living up to all the knowledge of God's Word that he has revealed to them, but that the Church's of the world have departed God's Word and are now following man-made teachings and traditions that have led many to either knowingly or unknowingly break the commandments of God. We can see this clearly in regards to Gods' 4th commandment of the 10 commandments. As the scriptures show the hour is coming and now is that Gods' true worshipers will worship God in Spirit and in truth. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24. God is calling us all out from following man-made teachings and traditions back to his Word *Revelation 18:1-5. God's sheep will hear His Voice (the Word) but those who are not His Sheep will not hear and rise up against it as they did the Words of JESUS *John 10:26-27.

God bless sis

LoveGodsWord · May 18, 2021

I was just wondering what does anyone think Matthew 15:3-9 means in your view. I was hoping to discuss it in some detail if there is some interest as this is the topic of the OP here.

Search

Search

GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member

More options

pescador

Wise old man

More options

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member

More options

pescador

Wise old man

More options

Studyman

Well-Known Member

More options

Studyman

Well-Known Member

More options

Studyman

Well-Known Member

More options

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member

More options

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member

More options

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member

More options

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member

More options

LoveGodsWord

Well-Known Member

More options

Similar threads