Traditional Skills

Phronema · Dec 22, 2020

gurneyhalleck1 said:
I guess I’m the only guy in this entire forum that hates killing animals. I just hate it. Always have. I’m glad our monastics have the diet they do.

I'm not keen on the killing of animals either, but I do enjoy the meat from them. There's definitely no pleasure derived from the act for me.

AMM · Dec 22, 2020

gurneyhalleck1 said:
I guess I’m the only guy in this entire forum that hates killing animals. I just hate it. Always have. I’m glad our monastics have the diet they do.

I’m right there with you. Never gone hunting or anything. I hate when I’m driving and accidentally hit a squirrel in the road (only happened one time that I know of, and I actually brought it up in confession).

I do eat meat, on occasion. But most of the time I follow a vegetarian or vegan diet. And as Dewi Sant pointed out, meat is a historic rarity. It’s a treat. I try to keep that in mind when I’m grocery shopping; meat is expensive and I’m able to make myself warm and good food without needing meat, so I’d rather save the meat for the big feasts and special occasions (and try to buy something more ethical than the factory farm produced stuff).

ArmyMatt · Dec 22, 2020

gurneyhalleck1 said:
It seems like eating them was a concession of the Fall more than an admonition or anticipation on Gods part, but I could be wrong.

technically it was a concession post-Flood. so fallen man was still vegetarian for a while.

personally, I have no issue with animals getting killed for food (members of my dad's side were pig farmers) unless it's wasteful or inhumane. my wife and I are very careful about the meat we get.

Hermit76 · Dec 22, 2020

Justin-H.S. said:
Sounds delicious...
Buttermilk Fried Squirrel with Southern Gravy

I need a decent BB gun to shoot these suckers. I'm afraid 5.56 won't leave anything behind, let alone the cost of a single round these days.

5.56 is barely larger than a 22cal. It actually would be a good round.

Hermit76 · Dec 22, 2020

We raised animals for food all my life. They're well cared for. Game animals if not hunted would overpopulate And run rampant with disease. WE killed their predators to keep ourselves safe.
There are hunters who waste game but it is rare. Most people who hunt give away a lot of meat to those in need. My dad is recovering right now from Covid that was made much worse because he was harvesting a wild pig out in the cold for a family with small kids.
This is a way of life for folks that are good natured and love animals. I've spent more than one night out helping a distressed farm animal. Don't mistake the discussion on here for animal cruelty. For some of us it's survival, especially in the winter.

Hermit76 · Dec 22, 2020

For the record I deplore large meat factories and genetically engineered animals. This is the source of most animal cruelty... not hunting.

Justin-H.S. · Dec 22, 2020

Hermit76 said:
5.56 is barely larger than a 22cal. It actually would be a good round.

Right, .223 isn’t much bigger than .22lr. The issue is with bullet design. 5.56 is designed to fragment on impact. Plus, I imagine it’d make too much racket for small game.

Hermit76 · Dec 22, 2020

Justin-H.S. said:
Right, .223 isn’t much bigger than .22lr. The issue is with bullet design. 5.56 is designed to fragment on impact. Plus, I imagine it’d make too much racket for small game.

You can buy a non-fragmenting round. Plus I doubt a fragmenting round would disperse all that much in a squirrel

Justin-H.S. · Dec 22, 2020

Hermit76 said:
You can buy a non-fragmenting round. Plus I doubt a fragmenting round would disperse all that much in a squirrel

On further research, I think we could get by with using the .22 rifle we already have. I didn’t want to at first because it’s my daughters little Crickett.

Problem solved.

Hermit76 · Dec 22, 2020

Justin-H.S. said:
On further research, I think we could get by with using the .22 rifle we already have. I didn’t want to at first because it’s my daughters little Crickett.

Problem solved.

Dang... A Davey Crickett is a fantastic squirrel rifle if you're fairly accurate. Grown men carry them for squirrels. A .410 shotgun is good too. My wife has one but the shells are rather $$$ for some reason right now. I just don't like shot in my game.

gurneyhalleck1 · Dec 22, 2020

With grocery stores, unless you live in Siberia, I don’t buy the survival angle, with respect.

I am not saying anyone practices animal cruelty, but I am saying I take no pleasure in killing animals nor do I have the stomach for it. I am an avid shooter, but I like precision target shooting, trap shooting, not blowing animals away. At our sportsman’s club, I quit going to meetings having to endure machismo on steroids seeing photos after photo of giant elk blown to Swiss cheese with guts all over the place.

While I find hunting unnecessary and sad, it’s far superior to factory farming. A gestation crate, the culling process, and all the cruelty of farming makes most hunting look like warm fuzzy animal love.

I must say, though, putting a bullet in an animal’s head as one cowers behind a bolt action from 100 yards in camo is not my idea of “loving animals,” but, as they say, to each his own.

Hermit76 said:
We raised animals for food all my life. They're well cared for. Game animals if not hunted would overpopulate And run rampant with disease. WE killed their predators to keep ourselves safe.
There are hunters who waste game but it is rare. Most people who hunt give away a lot of meat to those in need. My dad is recovering right now from Covid that was made much worse because he was harvesting a wild pig out in the cold for a family with small kids.
This is a way of life for folks that are good natured and love animals. I've spent more than one night out helping a distressed farm animal. Don't mistake the discussion on here for animal cruelty. For some of us it's survival, especially in the winter.

Hermit76 · Dec 23, 2020

gurneyhalleck1 said:
With grocery stores, unless you live in Siberia, I don’t buy the survival angle, with respect.

I am not saying anyone practices animal cruelty, but I am saying I take no pleasure in killing animals nor do I have the stomach for it. I am an avid shooter, but I like precision target shooting, trap shooting, not blowing animals away. At our sportsman’s club, I quit going to meetings having to endure machismo on steroids seeing photos after photo of giant elk blown to Swiss cheese with guts all over the place.

While I find hunting unnecessary and sad, it’s far superior to factory farming. A gestation crate, the culling process, and all the cruelty of farming makes most hunting look like warm fuzzy animal love.

I must say, though, putting a bullet in an animal’s head as one cowers behind a bolt action from 100 yards in camo is not my idea of “loving animals,” but, as they say, to each his own.

This is not how I want this to go but...
You mentioned a supermarket. Have you ever been to a slaughterhouse? I have many times. My son used to work at one. My sister in law works at one. We have very good friends who own one. As you alluded Even with the most caring approach it is brutal. A bolt gun thing is often used. The animal senses what is about to happen. They're afraid a lot of the time... That's your meat from the supermarket.
You may not buy the survival thing. That's ok. But I have survived on deer meat. I once traded my TV for a freezer full of deer meat. If I had a cow to slaughter I rarely have enough money in the bank to pay the slaughter bill. It is expensive. A LOT of people around here are the same.

Also you need to consider the animal management aspect. We had a deer disease last year. The herd in some areas needed culled to prevent a widespread problem. Plus, with the predator situation things get off kilter. We have a feral hog problem. They're destroying crops, causing problematic erosion, and endangering the native animal population. Both forestry and game management officials are trying to have them killed. We're going to kill a lot of them this winter.

I guess when you're raised in a rural farm life it's different. Lol, we don't hang around in gun clubs so we're not like you described. I know what you're talking about though. I had family (not on my side) go on a safari. I'm not interested in all that. I think it's hard to accept the whole idea of spending thousands to kill for nothing but trophies.

And just for the record I don't even remember the last animal I killed while hunting. My dad usually gives me a couple deer each year. And up until now we've been able to afford meat. That's not the case anymore.

Justin-H.S. · Dec 23, 2020

Hermit76 said:
Dang... A Davey Crickett is a fantastic squirrel rifle if you're fairly accurate. Grown men carry them for squirrels. A .410 shotgun is good too. My wife has one but the shells are rather $$$ for some reason right now. I just don't like shot in my game.

I'd like to get the adult sized stock to put on the Crickett, can't shoulder it very well. They're out of stock at the moment. It's either covid related or it's just Christmas. I did get her a 4x32 scope for Christmas.

Also, for the diet nuts: Pretty sure our ancestors were fasting a lot more than we do today with food so readily available. If you do the research, the obesity epidemic is correlated to when the FDA decided to push the "Low-fat" diet. Fat is actually a macronutrient important for our health. When food companies started processing low-fat foods, they replaced the fat with sugar which is exponentially worse than fat is.

Our ancestors also didn't have the processed boxed foods we have now. Plus, they were intermittently fasting on a regular basis. Plus, they actually worked with their hands more often than not. Plus, they were more spiritually entuned than many people are today. I don't think it was a matter of whether meat was a rarity or not. There were many aspects of the traditional lifestyle than just not eating meat on a regular basis. Sugar was also very rare, and I'd say sugar is the worst thing we can consume that is dumped into processed foods by the tons. Just look at the labels.

Macronutrients are: Fat, Protein, Carbohydrates. That's what our bodies need to be healthy.

The food pyramid is junk science developed at a time when nutrition science was still young. That's why you got people still believing "You don't need Protein maaan, don't eat meat braaaah."

Using the food pyramid as a guide is NOT traditional.

Hermit76 · Dec 23, 2020

I'd like to go back to the original OP on here. Are any of you familiar with the Foxfire books? I'm thinking of doing a curriculum with them as the text

AMM · Dec 23, 2020

Who are the diet nuts on here that you’re referring too? I don’t remember seeing anyone arguing “meat is bad because it’s high protein or high fat!”

Pretty sure the last time I looked at a food pyramid was like 5 years ago, and I don’t eat much processed food.

Hermit76 · Dec 23, 2020

AMM said:
Who are the diet nuts on here that you’re referring too? I don’t remember seeing anyone arguing “meat is bad because it’s high protein or high fat!”

Pretty sure the last time I looked at a food pyramid was like 5 years ago, and I don’t eat much processed food.

Please... Let's move on.

Justin-H.S. · Dec 23, 2020

Knowing how to fight is a traditional skill. Three aspects of: Stand up - Striking and Takedowns. Once the fight goes to the ground, Grappling.

What manner of man would anyone be if they couldn't defend their family with or without weapons? Are they really the rightful ruler of their kingdom?

peregrinus2017 · Dec 23, 2020

Hermit76 said:
I'd like to go back to the original OP on here. Are any of you familiar with the Foxfire books? I'm thinking of doing a curriculum with them as the text

They're kinda interesting in an anthropological way. Never could get into them myself. Unless you are able to do some real hands on activities, I think it would be lacking. But I am admittedly a terrible teacher. It would also probably depend a great deal on what you are trying to teach, and to who. There are many volumes, so you would have a lot of material to choose from.

Hermit76 · Dec 23, 2020

Just stop with the prodding posts. Please don't ruin this thread. There's lots of useful stuff on here

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