ARE ALL THE 10 COMMANDMENTS IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT?

HARK!

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The above is truly impressive.
I wouldn't ever put together such a post for two reasons:

1. I just don't have the time.

2. I just don't care what anybody in authority believes,,,,and here's why:

As I've said,,,I've studied (very little of course) and have come to understand both points of view.

I could list Early Church Fathers that believed in Sunday Worship...or some that believed in Saturadyh worship. The Didache is not specific and so cannot be used. It mentions the Lord's Day but there's even controversy as to what THAT means.

So basically, I'm going to trust the mercy of God....
and if you really want to debate this, I give you over to @LoveGodsWord because he's an expert on this subject and I'm not.

And if you wish to read some ECFs that do not agree with the churches above...try this (and there's more)...

Quotes from Early Church Fathers: the Sabbath, Lord's Day, and Worship - Apostles Creed

You see,,,it's not a cut and dry subject matter...unless you absolutely are convinced of one day or the other --- obey your conscience.

LoveGodsWord and I are on the same page concerning this subject. For some reason I thought that you were on the same page as us.

I apologize if I was mistaken.
 
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GodsGrace101

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LoveGodsWord and I are on the same page concerning this subject. For some reason I thought that you were on the same page as us.

I apologize if I was mistaken.
No need to apologize.
@LoveGodsWord is my brother in Christ, as are you.

Your post WAS TRULY impressive,,,I was not being sarcastic.

I was just trying to show why it's so confusing to me.
Not able to make up my mind really well one way or the other.

I think it's a good thing to be secure in a belief...I am on most topics.

But I do believe I posted this as my position on this particular subject matter....


cat on fence.jpg
 
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LoveGodsWord

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No need to apologize.
@LoveGodsWord is my brother in Christ, as are you.

Your post WAS TRULY impressive,,,I was not being sarcastic.

I was just trying to show why it's so confusing to me.
Not able to make up my mind really well one way or the other.

I think it's a good thing to be secure in a belief...I am on most topics.

But I do believe I posted this as my position on this particular subject matter....


View attachment 277531

Aww thanks sister GG. Where are you? Long time no see. :)
 
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GodsGrace101

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Aww thanks sister GG. Where are you? Long time no see. :)
Hi LGW,,,,
I'm beginning to think that if I knew more about the end times...I might be better able to decide on this.
Not sure why.
See you around....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hi LGW,,,,
I'm beginning to think that if I knew more about the end times...I might be better able to decide on this.
Not sure why.
See you around....

Hey GG, I may know why.

Funny you say this. I am in the process of making a website on this very topic (end time events). It is not updated or complete but if your interested come and check it out linked here. Let me know what you think

God bless sis. :wave:
 
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GodsGrace101

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Hey GG, I may know why.

Funny you say this. I am in the process of making a website on this very topic (end time events). It is not updated or complete but if your interested come and check it out linked here. Let me know what you think

God bless sis. :wave:
LGW
Check out the site...I'm having a problem with it.
Please let me know if you can see it normally and well.
Thanks!

P.S. Maybe it really needs to be completed....
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Check out the site...I'm having a problem with it.
Please let me know if you can see it normally and well.
Thanks!

P.S. Maybe it really needs to be completed....

Hi GG, try https://www.beastsmark.com
Or google beastsmark (all one word). I clicked on it seems to be working ok. Let me know if your still having problems. You can only view it though on PC not on phone or tablet.
 
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GodsGrace101

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Hi Fran, try https://www.beastsmark.com
Or google beastsmark (all one word). I clicked on it seems to be working ok. Let me know if your still having problems. You can only view it though on PC not on phone or tablet.
It works better today...maybe it was the link?
Did you set that up??
It's great work!
Will go through it a bit later,,,having some work done right now by a contractor.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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It works better today...maybe it was the link?
Did you set that up??
It's great work!
Will go through it a bit later,,,having some work done right now by a contractor.

Oh great happy the link worked, I was worried for a moment. Take your time as there is a lot of content there. It is a work in progress. It needs to be updated and more added to not finished as yet. If you have any questions sis feel free to let me know.

God bless
 
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LoveGodsWord

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HARK!

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In Hebrew scripture two verses are relevant:

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labour and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy

Deuteronomy 5:12 Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labour and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.

I have bolded relevant portions. Which is the correct reason?

You're presenting a false dichotomy. The answer is both.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCES: "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day." (Matthew 12:8; Luke 6:5) [So the Sabbath is the TRUE Lord's Day]

it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. (Matthew 12:12) they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he (Jesus) entered into the synagogue, and taught. (Mark 1:21) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. (Mark 2:27-28) [Notice: The Sabbath is NOT just for Jews, or Israelites, or Hebrews, or Semites (descendants of Shem), but FOR ALL MANKIND]

And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach (Mark 6:2)

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day (Luke 4:16)

(Jesus) taught them on the sabbath days. (Luke 4:31)

The following Scriptural references: Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:12, Mark 1:21, Mark 2:27-28, Mark 6:2, Luke 4:16, Luke 4:31, and Luke 6:5 are all points in Scripture that support the Saturday Sabbath command before the cross (While the Old Covenant was still in effect).

The New Covenant (or New Testament) officially began with the death of Jesus Christ upon the cross (Thereby ending the Old Covenant). So yes. The Saturday Sabbath command was in effect before the cross. But after the cross, we learn the Saturday Sabbath command is no longer in effect. For Colossians 2:14-17, and Romans 14:5-6 makes it clear that that it is a command that is no longer in effect anymore. In addition, there is no explicit or non-explicit commands given to believers to keep the Saturday Sabbath in the New Testament. When Paul, and John talk list out various sins (like murder, coveting, theft, etc.), Sabbath breaking is not listed among them. This is what we should expect to see if things are as you say.

God's Moral Laws:

God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from out of the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still are in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial Laws or commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, dietary etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?

Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

“And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).

You said:
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day. (Matthew 24:20)

Just because Saturday is still the Sabbath day, it does not mean that the command to keep the Saturday Sabbath is still in effect (Especially in light of Colossians 2:14-17). Plus, Matthew 24:20 was said to those who were in Judaea (See: Matthew 24:16). They were to flee to the mountains if they were in this region. This means they are predominantly Jewish people who regard the Saturday Sabbath (and yet they rejected their own Messiah). So at this point in the Olivet discourse, it is not referring to Gentile believers spread across the globe but to the Jewish people who are stuck in the Old Covenant system, and thus, they would recognize the Sabbath day. Matthew 24:20 is not commanding us to keep the Sabbath. It is merely recognizing a calendar day as being the Sabbath; But it's not a command. In order for it to be a command, it should say: “But pray that your flight be not in winter, neither on the sabbath day (which is an eternal command of God for all men to keep).” But it doesn't say that. So you are seeing something in this verse that it does not specifically say.

You said:
AFTER JESUS' DEATH, HIS DISCIPLES OBSERVED THE SABBATH:

And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment." (Luke 23:55-56)

Luke 23:55-56 is just presenting to us the facts of what was happening. The gospel writer Luke is not saying, “Thou shalt keep the Saturday Sabbath.” Luke is just presenting us the narrative of what is going on. These women were not teaching how we must keep the Sabbath as a part of the New Covenant teachings. Pentecost did not even happen yet. They only did what they have known from before. The women did not know about the change of the Law yet or the teaching by Paul in Colossians 2 that came later. They did not even know that the Gentiles would be later included in God's plan yet. For example: If you were to read in the Old Testament, you can read about lots of commands. But that does not mean you believe that the commands in the Torah on animal sacrifices and the priesthood are still in effect. But if we were to read how if somebody kept these commands after the cross, it does not mean they are acting in accordance with God's New Covenant program, though. This is the same argument you are trying to make with this women obeying the Sabbath before even Pentecost happened. God did not immediately give these women new Covenant teachings to follow Him perfectly after the cross. Certain messengers like Paul were selected instead. For Paul would be the one who would write the majority of the New Testament we have. It was not these women who would write the New Testament so as to teach us. In fact, Jesus told Mary not to touch Him because he needed to ascend to the Father. This shows that they are not perfectly in tune with God's new program in what was going on yet.

You said:
when they (the apostles) departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day." (Acts 13:14)

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath." (Acts 13:42) [Notice: the Gentiles (non-jews) wanted to hear the word of God on the next Sabbath. Paul DID NOT tell them, "Come back tomorrow, the first day of the week, because that's the day us Christians keep." He had them return the following SABBATH] And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. (Acts 13:44)

The command to the Corinthians in 1 Corinthians 16 to gather the collection on the first day of the week did not happen until Acts 18. Also, Acts 20 records Christians gathering on the first day of the week (Which would naturally follow Acts 18 per Paul's command). So things were progressively changing. The change of the New Covenant way and it's teachings did not happen overnight. It was a gradual change. New Testament canon of Scripture was being formed at this time. Anyways, the apostles and Gentiles gathering on Sabbath in the synagogue does not mean that the Saturday Sabbath command was in effect after the cross. The apostles did not command the Gentiles to keep the Saturday Sabbath. In fact, they had a great opportunity to bring up the Sabbath command at the Jerusalem council in Acts of the Apostles 15. But they said that the Gentiles did not have to be circumcised and to keep the Law of Moses. Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says we cannot be justified by keeping the Law of Moses (Which means the Law of Moses is no longer in effect). In Acts 15, the Gentiles were not told to keep the Sabbath command, but they were stressed to... Abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication (Acts of the Apostles 15:29).

“Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:10).

You said:
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day. (Acts 15:21)

We have to understand the early church was still learning and growing about God's New Covenant program still. We learn in Acts 21 that Paul was warned by the Holy Spirit not to go to Jerusalem. Yet, Paul wanted to see his fellow Israelites saved because he loved them very much (Romans 9:3). So he went anyways. But he paid the price for this mistake in not heeding the warning of the Spirit to not go to Jerusalem. Paul ended up going back to old ways of the Law in attempting to go through with a purification rite of the Law of Moses, but God stopped him by having him arrested. This led to his time of being a captive and in prison. So when James says that Moses has from old time preached in every city that preach him on the sabbath day, he was not fully aware of all the changes in God's New Covenant program yet. Plus, James was not giving the Gentiles a command to keep the Sabbath in Acts 15:21, either.

Anyways, Paul penned the letter to the Colossians when he was imprisoned by the Romans (Which was long after the Jerusalem council event in Acts 15). Colossians 2:14-17 is the key set of verses that makes it clear that the Saturday Sabbath command is no longer (Note: This would not be the end of the Saturday being the Sabbath, it would simply mark the end of the Sabbath command). Paul made it really clear. There was nothing for him to lose at this point in his life. So the truth came out.

You said:
And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made. (Acts 16:13)

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures. (Acts 17:2)

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. (Acts 18:4)

This was merely an evangelistic effort by Paul to reach the Jews. Paul is not declaring any Sabbath command here. These verses are merely giving us a display of the facts of what is going on in regards to the meeting on a certain day. It's not proof that the Sabbath command is still in effect. Paul is not giving any commands and he is not said to be resting on these days according to the commandment.

You said:
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Hebrews 4:4) keeping"] to the people of God." (Hebrews 4:9)

Hebrews 4:4, and Hebrews 4:9 is not proof that that we have to keep the Saturday Sabbath command in the New Testament. These verses do not explicitly or non-explicitly teach the Saturday Sabbath command. On the contrary, they teach a new Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:6 says,
“Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:”

Verse 6 here talks about how the Jews did not enter into recognizing their own Messiah (i.e. rest), and they entered not into Christ because of their own unbelief. For if you were to keep reading all the way down to the chapter (with verse 14) it talks about Jesus being our heavenly high priest and how we can obtain mercy and grace in help in time of need.

Hebrews 4:8-9 says,
“For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.”

Some take this to mean Joshua instead of Jesus, and others take this to mean Jesus who was leading Joshua in the taking down of Jericho and it's walls. So if Joshua or Jesus gave the Israelite people rest, he would not aftward spoke of another day. Meaning, the Israelites followed the Law of Moses and the Saturday Sabbath command that gave rest. But if they truly were to have this rest in the shadow or type, then he would not have spoken of another day. The day when Christ would come and give us the true rest in Him.

So Jesus is our rest now under the New Covenant.

“Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28).


Side Note:

If you do not get what I am saying after this, I will not reply any further. Titus 3:9 tells me not to strive over matters of the Law (i.e. the Old Law). So if you reply, any post (or posts) will simply go ignored by me. If people want to be under the Old Law, they will listen to you. If they want to follow Jesus and His apostles, they will listen to them. So far, there is NO explicit or non-explicit repeat clear command for keeping the Saturday Sabbath within the New Testament. Try as you might to find such a verse in Scripture, it simply does not exist. You are only making inferences off certain verses (Which people will be able to see for themselves if they want to follow only what is written in God's Holy Word).
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Hello Bible Highlighter, thanks for joining us, some comments for your consideration below. I might break my responses down into smaller posts as I want to look at the detail at everything your saying and all the scriptures you provide here to see if there is truth in your words. This should be a good experience for both of is in reference to John 3:16-19. If we truly believe we have the truth of Gods' Word we should not be afraid of coming in full view of it to see what it is really saying. I am sure we both do not want to find ourselves following false teachings. So lets' look at your post and scriptures in detail that may be helpful or not.
The following Scriptural references: Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:12, Mark 1:21, Mark 2:27-28, Mark 6:2, Luke 4:16, Luke 4:31, and Luke 6:5 are all points in Scripture that support the Saturday Sabbath command before the cross (While the Old Covenant was still in effect). The New Covenant (or New Testament) officially began with the death of Jesus Christ upon the cross (Thereby ending the Old Covenant). So yes. The Saturday Sabbath command was in effect before the cross. But after the cross, we learn the Saturday Sabbath command is no longer in effect
Where does it say in the scriptures that the Sabbath was abolished after the death of JESUS? As posted earlier everyone of God's 10 commandments (including God's 4th commandment) has been repeated in the new testament. Your claims here that the Sabbath commandment is not in effect after the cross is not a biblical one but let me explain why. There is simply no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

You are correct however, in quoting me when saying that, Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:12, Mark 1:21, Mark 2:27-28, Mark 6:2, Luke 4:16, Luke 4:31, and Luke 6:5 are all points in Scripture that support the Saturday Sabbath and they are all new covenant scripture, showing what JESUS taught in regards to the Sabbath day that is why they were posted.

According to the scriptures in the new testament JESUS is our example and we are to follow him *1 Peter 2:20-22; 1 John 2:6. According to the scriptures both JESUS and Paul are our examples and we are to follow them *1 Corinthians 11:1; Matthew 16:24. Both JESUS and Paul's example was to keep the Sabbath pre (Matthew 12:8, Matthew 12:12, Mark 1:21, Mark 2:27-28, Mark 6:2, Luke 4:16, Luke 4:31, and Luke 6:5) and post resurrection (Acts of the Apostles 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10).

There is no scripture in all the new testament that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day is there? If there is no scripture that says Gods' 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day who are you following?

Then we have JESUS that says; Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, Till heaven and earth pass, one stroke or one pronunciation mark shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. - Matthew 5:17-19. So if JESUS did not come to abolish the Sabbath and there is no scripture that says that the Sabbath is abolished who are you following?

to be continued...
 
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For Colossians 2:14-17, and Romans 14:5-6 makes it clear that that it is a command that is no longer in effect anymore. In addition, there is no explicit or non-explicit commands given to believers to keep the Saturday Sabbath in the New Testament. When Paul, and John talk list out various sins (like murder, coveting, theft, etc.), Sabbath breaking is not listed among them. This is what we should expect to see if things are as you say.

Well nope! I challenged you on this in the previous thread. You ignored my questions to you and sought to close the conversation and stop me from posting. Where does it say in Romans 14 that it is talking about God's 4th commandment Sabbath? - It doesn't. Romans 14 is talking about eating and not eating (fasting) on days that men esteem over other days v5 (this is the context you leave out of v5) and judging others in this regards. Nothing about the Sabbath. This interpretation of the scriptures for Romans 14 makes Paul a hypocrite who's custom was to keep the Sabbath * Acts of the Apostles 17:2; 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4 (yes after the death and resurrection of JESUS). Now lets be honest, nowhere in Romans 14 does it even discuss the seventh day Sabbath of God's 4th commandment. If you disagree please show me the scripture. So how do you get that out of a single scripture pulled from chapter context of Romans 14?

Lets look at the detail...

SOME POINTS TO CONSIDER IN ROMANS 14:1-23

[1] the days spoken of are associated with eating/drinking, not eating/not drinking.

[2] the matter is over those 'weak' and 'strong' in faith concerning eating/drinking and days to do and not do those things on

[3] the context deals with "One man esteemeth", and not what God esteems (Isaiah 56:1-8, 58:13; Psalms 89:34) as permanent and so, and God's word is clear about what men esteem:

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

The Jews continually argued over which were better days to do this thing or that thing, like fasting, feasting, etc: [Matthew 9:14; Mark 2:18; Luke 5:33, 18:12 KJB]

[4] the words for sabbath is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[5] the words of the seventh day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[6] the words for the Lord's day is not present in all of Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[7] Romans 14 is in the context of Romans 13, which directly cites the latter (2nd) table of the Ten Commandments, for love to neighbour, which is also found in Leviticus 19:17-18, in the context of sin and the Ten Commandments

[8] Romans 15 is the other end, and when combined with 1 Corinthians 8-10, the context is clear that the sabbath of the LORD thy God (Exodus 20:8-11) is not in view in the least, and is sustained by the rest of Paul in Romans by his statements on the eternal spiritual, holy, just and good Law (Exodus 20:1-17) of God, which identifies what sin is (Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4)

[9] the entire context of Romans 14 is to do nothing (even if allowed normally, yet not under special circumstances) to cause others to sin:

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[10] Paul never contradicts himself, and Paul's writings are scripture (2 Peter 3:16), and scripture cannot be broken, John 10:35) and does not teach transgression of God's Law (Exodus 20:1-17) at any point:

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Romans7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

[11] the words for "law", "commandments" are never used in Romans 14

[12] Paul in numerous places lists and upholds every single one of the Ten Commandments in the NT, including the 4th Commandment (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11) in Hebrews 3-4, etc.

[13] Romans 14 is about excluding those things which were "doubful disputations", and not a single one of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:1-17) were ever doubtful or to be disputed in any place in all of scripture (KJB), for the Commandment of God are "sure" (Psalms 111:7).

[14] the words for "covenant/testament" are never used in Romans 14

[15] the words for 'first [day] of the week' are never used in Romans 14, neither in all of Romans

[16] none of the 'Sunday' (first [day] of the week) churches use Romans 14 to teach that I may ignore the day they gather on, even though that day is not sanctified by God in any way what so ever in scripture (KJB), and is never called "the Lord's day" in scripture, neither is it "the seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God".

[17] nobody uses Romans 14 to teach I can simply stop eating/drinking on every day

[18] anyone who quotes Romans 14, has in mind 'restrictions', rather than allowances

.............

CONCLUSION
: Nothing about God's 4th commandment in there at all. The scriptures are talking about food connected to days (eating and not eating (fasting) on days men esteem over other days. Not what days God esteems and judging others. - one down.

to be continued..
 
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LoveGodsWord

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For Colossians 2:14-17, and Romans 14:5-6 makes it clear that that it is a command that is no longer in effect anymore. In addition, there is no explicit or non-explicit commands given to believers to keep the Saturday Sabbath in the New Testament. When Paul, and John talk list out various sins (like murder, coveting, theft, etc.), Sabbath breaking is not listed among them. This is what we should expect to see if things are as you say.

In regards to Colossians 2. Where does it say that Colossians 2:16 is talking about God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments when the context is to laws in ordinances v14? You may be interested to know that the Greek word used for laws in "ordinance" in Colossians 2:14 that your referring to is G1378 δόγμα "dogma" and means a "civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law.

Gods 4th commandment which we will discuss in detail next is not a law in ordinances but a moral law and part of Gods 10 commandments of our duty of love to God and man *Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8:10; James 2:8-12. Written with the finger of God on tables of stone *Exodus 32:16.

There were however ceremonial sabbaths in the yearly (not weekly) Feast days of Leviticus 23. These unlike God's 4th commandment were linked directly to the Feast days and could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle that were shadows of things to come These annual Feast days are found in; (1) Feast of Unleavened Bread (first and last day) *Leviticus 23:6-8 (2) Feast of Trumpets *Leviticus 23:24-25 (3) Day of Atonement *Leviticus 23:27-32 (4) Feast of Booths *Leviticus 23:34-36 (5) Feast of First Fruits *Leviticus 23:39 (6) Feast days of Holy convocation of no work (sabbaton Colossians 2:16 *Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36.

By the way the use of the Greek word for sabbaton in Colossians 2:16 is not to "THE" Sabbath (singular) it is genitive neuter plural to Sabbaths or Sabbath days plural application. It is impossible that Colossians 2:16 is in reference to God's 4th commandment as it a part of the "finished work of creation" *Genesis 2:1-3. There was no sin and no law and no plan of salvation for unfallen man when the Sabbath was made for mankind *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. Now notice something very important. God's 4th commandment does not point forward to things to come *Colossians 2:17 it points backward (Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy - Exodus 20:8). Gods 4th commandment points backwards because it is a memorial of the finished work of creation and the celebration of God as the creator of heaven and earth...

Lets look at the commandment that points backward as a memorial and not forwards to things to come

Exodus 20:8-11 [8], REMEMBER the SABBATH DAY, to KEEP IT HOLY. <Why?> {Because it is a memorial looking back to the finished work of creation that JESUS made it a Holy day of rest for mankind and commands us to keep it as a Holy day} [9], Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work: [10], But the SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH of the LORD thy God {This is a direct reference from God's Word defining what the Sabbath is; The SABBATH = the SEVENTH DAY OF THE WEEK}: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: <WHY> [11], For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the SEVENTH DAY: wherefore the LORD BLESSED THE SABBATH, and HALLOWED IT. {Reference is backward not forward to Genesis 2:1-3}

Therefore, it is impossible for God's 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath to be a "shadow law" as all the "shadow laws" are laws to do with God's plan of salvation from sin after the fall of mankind from the Mosaic book of the law. God's Sabbath was created when there was no sin, no fall, no law and no plan of salvation because mankind was in perfect harmony with God. - two down

more to come...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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God's Moral Laws: God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil).
Exactly :oldthumbsup:, that is why God’s Sabbath law of the 10 commandments cannot be a “shadow law” of Colossians 2:14-17 because it was a part of the “finished work” of creation before sin and before the fall of mankind when man was in perfect harmony with God and sinless. Gods 4th commandment points backward to the creation week *Exodus 20:8-11 as a memorial of creation *Genesis 2:1-3 as proven through the scriptures in the previous section. Pointing backwards as a memorial of creation it is impossible to be a “shadow law” because there was no sin when it was created for all mankind *Mark 2:27. – three down
In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from out of the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still are in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial Laws or commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, dietary etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole)
According to the scriptures this is not true because God’s 4th commandment Sabbath law is a moral law not a ceremonial law. You seem to be mixing up the “shadow laws” of the annual feast sabbaths that are linked to the feast days with Gods’ weekly sabbath that is linked to the seventh day of the week on a continuous weekly cycle. (see section above for a detailed explanation (Colossians 2:16. The annual feast sabbaths are “shadow laws” of things to come *Colossians 2:17. As shown through the scriptures earlier God’s 4th commandment seventh day Sabbath is not a “shadow law” as it is “memorial” pointing backwards to the seventh day of the “finished work” of creation where God blessed the “seventh day” and made it a holy day of rest for all mankind *Exodus 20:8-11; Genesis 2:1-3. – Four down

to be continued...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Here are a list of verses (showing us the Old Law is no more):
Let’s look at each one of the scriptures you provide to see if they support your claim that God’s 10 commandments are no more shall we but lets examine the context to see if the scriptures you provide are really saying what your claiming they are saying. It is easy to cherry pick scripture. Most people seem to be surface readers. Lets test your claims and if what you are saying is correct lets be edified if not then perhaps you can receive God’s correction and be blessed. Win win in my view I am excited, what about you?
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).
True, so what is the new covenant and what has changed from the old one? According to God’s new covenant promise given in Jeremiah 31:31-34; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 8:10-12. God’s law is to be written on the heart through the Spirit through love and love is the fulfilling (doing) of the law. The new covenant, according the new testament scriptures, includes everyone of God's 10 commandments (New Covenant scripture support here).

Their purpose in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTEOUSNESS *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172 and if we break any one of them, we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. They lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25; Romans 8:1-4 and are written on the heart *Hebrews 8:10-12 in those who are born in the Spirit to love *1 John 4:7; 1 John 5:4.

Whosoever is born of God does not practice sin. * 1 John 3:6-9. Now are these scriptures new testament scripture? These are all God's Words not my words. Now tell me dear friend, what is it that I have said here that you do not believe? All of God’s 10 commandments are moral laws of our duty of love to God. In fact all of God's 10 commandments are moral laws of our duty of love to God and our fellow man (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:36-40; Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12). Only God's 10 commandments were spoken directly by God and written with God's own finger *Exodus 20:1-17; Exodus 32:16 and given to us as the standard of good and evil, sin and righteousness according to the new covenant scriptures in Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

So nope according to God’s definition of “new covenant” in the new testament scriptures none of God’s 10 commandments have been abolished in fulfillment of the very words of JESUS in Matthew 5:17-19. – Five down.

to be continued...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4). "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).
According to the chapter context of Romans 7 the law being discussed in Romans 7:4-6 is not God’s 10 commandments but the law of “marriage” as shown in Romans 7:1-3. Being dead to the law in Romans 7:4 is not saying we disregard God's law (10 commandments) or any one of God's commandments for that matter as the purpose of Gods law in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and to lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. That is why Paul says the law (10 commandments) as stated a little further after Paul explains the purpose of God’s law in Romans 7:7 (not marriage law) is holy, just and good in Romans 7:12.

The context of Romans 7:4 is to the example of the law of marriage and being married to the new husband (Christ) in the Spirit *Romans 7:1-6. While we are married to the flesh (the sinful man) we cannot be married to Christ in the Spirit. Romans 7:5-6 adds a little more clarity [5], For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit to death.[6], But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

The wages of sin is death according to the scriptures but the gift of God is JESUS our new husband to those who have died to the flesh (see Romans 6) and been made free to walk in the Spirit *Romans 6:23; Romans 7:1-6; Romans 8:1-4; 13; Galatians 5:16. Have a prayerful read of Romans 6 dear friend. It will help your study as Romans 7 is just a different expression of the same subject matter. Showing that it is sin that we die to not God’s law that gives us the knowledge of what sin is *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. – Six down

to be continued...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14). “By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

This is just repetition that has already been addressed. These scriptures are nothing to do with God’s 10 commandments. As shown none of God’s 10 commandments are laws in ordinances. God’s 10 commandments are written on tables of stone with the finger of God *Exodus 20:8-11; Exodus 32:16. As shown through the scriptures already all of God’s 10 commandment are moral laws of our duty of love to God and man and are written on the heart *Hebrews 8:10-12 in those who are born in the Spirit to love *1 John 4:7; 1 John 5:4. Whosoever is born of God does not practice sin. * 1 John 3:6-9.The Greek word used for laws in "ordinance" in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 that your referring to latter is G1378 δόγμα "dogma" and means a "civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law. We have already shown above that all God’s 10 commandments are moral laws not laws in ordinances as none of God’s 10 commandments were written by Moses. – Seven down
20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, 21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not; 22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh." (Colossians 2:20-23).
The hint here to show that you have a wrong application and interpretation of these scriptures is in Colossians 2:21-22 where it says Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men. God’s 10 commandments are not after the commandments of the doctrine of men and have nothing to do with laws about touch not handle not and taste not. – Eight down
"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).
According to the context of Hebrews 7, Hebrews 7:18 has nothing to do with God’s 10 commandments. The law being spoken of here is the law of the Levitical Priesthood not the 10 commandments. It is talking about a change in the laws regarding who can be a Priest. Under the old testament laws only a Levite could partake of the office of the Sanctuary Priests of High Priest. The context that of JESUS who was born of the tribe of Judah and Melchisedek meaning King Priest.

Hebrews 7:12-22 [12], FOR THE PRIESTHOOD BEING CHANGED, THERE IS MADE OF NECESSITY A CHANGE ALSO OF THE LAW. [13], For he of whom these things are spoken pertains to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. [14], FOR IT IS EVIDENT THAT OUR LORD SPRANG OUT OF JUDA; OF WHICH TRIBE MOSES SPOKE NOTHING CONCERNING PRIESTHOOD. [15], And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there rises another priest, [16], Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. [17], For he testifies, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. [18], For there is truly a cancellation of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. [19], For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw near to God. [20], And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: [21], (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said to him, The Lord swore and will not repent, You are a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec [22], By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.

Hebrews 7:28 FOR THE LAW MAKES MEN HIGH PRIESTS which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, WHICH WAS SINCE THE LAW, MAKES THE SON, WHO IS CONSECRATED FOR EVER MORE.

It is the law of the Levitical Priesthood being changed here and the laws for remission of sins not God’s 10 commandments. It should be pretty evident to most here that your only cherry picking the scriptures and that the scriptures you have provided here do not support your claims – Nine down

to be continued...
 
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LoveGodsWord

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"9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10). 16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17). “And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).
Hebrews 9 continues on from Hebrews 7 and Hebrews 8 which was discussing the changing of the Prieshood and Sanctuary laws for remission of sins as shown in the previous section. Hebrews 8 continues on the same theme and once again has nothing to do with God’s 10 commandments. Hebrews 8:1 stating that JESUS is not our great high Priest sitting at the right hand of God, a minister of the heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was just a copy *Hebrews 8:2.

The laws being spoken of here are the Sanctuary laws for remission of sins *Hebrews 8:3-4 which serve as copies of heavenly things *Hebrews 8:5. This is the better covenant based on better promises *Hebrews 8:6. Finding fault with the old covenat of the Sanctuary laws for remission of sins and the Levitical Priesthood *Hebrews 8; Hebrews 8:7 God brings in the promise of the new and better covenant. So what is the new and better covenant? As shown in the last two chapters the laws of the Priesthood have changed. JESUS is our great high Priest after the order of Melchisedek and our perfect sacrifice for sin. The laws for remission of sins from the earthly Sanctuary having their fulfillment in the Heavenly Sanctuary made without hands.

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, said the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more – Hebrews 8:10-12. The only mention of God’s law here according to the new covenant promise is to be written on the heart to love.

Let’s continue now that we have context and the discussion is the Sanctuary and Priesthood laws for remission of sin of which the earthly Sanctuary was only a copy of the heavenly. Hebrews 9 goes on to describe the earthly Sanctuary *Hebrews 9:1-6 and is talking about the great day of atonement and the cleansing of the Santuary in Hebrews 9:7-8 which was only a shadow law (type) of the figure then present *Hebrews 9:9 which stood in both gifts and sacrifices, meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation *Hebrews 9:9-10. Sound familiar (Colosssians 2:14). JESUS becoming our great high Priest and no more earthly sin offerings and Sanctuary laws of the Levitical Priesthood *Hebrews 9:10-14. This is the new covenant though the cleansing of the Sanctuary pointing to the Sanctuary in Heaven and JESUS as our great high Priest for remission of sins *Hebrews 9:15-24. No more animal sacrifices and sin offerings from the old covenant!

Note Hebrews 7, Herbews 8 and Hebrews 9 have nothing to do with anyone of God’s 10 commandments. The chapters when context is added back is all about the change of the laws of the Levitical Priesthood and the earthly Sanctuary laws for remission of sins! This should be glaringly obvious that you have not provided a single scripture that says anyone of God’s 10 commandments have been abolished dear friend. – Ten down

Can you see dear friend once the context is provided back to the scriptures your providing they do not say what your are claiming they say.

More to come...
 
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