Lets talk about the New Testament commandments (No Sabbath Talk Please)...
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Carl Emerson
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Well a new command is to have the mind of Christ.
This means contemplating a sinful act is committing it...
This means contemplating a sinful act is committing it...
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In Deuteronomy 6:5, the Septuagint says “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy mind, and with all thy soul, and all thy strength.”
there are a few instances where the OT is quoted in the NT and it is more in line with with the Septuagint than the Masoretic Text
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No offense, but I believe the LXX is a fraud for various reasons (and it merely got the quotes done in a precise way because it was written after the fact).
First, jots and tittles are a part of the Hebrew language, and not Greek (Matthew 5:18). Jots and tittles is mentioned by our Lord Jesus Christ. In fact, do you remember the Canaanite woman? She barely had a conversation with Him because He was a Jew. Before the cross: Jesus sent His disciples into only the area of the Israelites and He forbid them to go to the Gentiles. It was only after the cross, things started to change (on the account of the Jewish nation rejecting their own Messiah). Gentiles were considered unclean. Jesus said salvation is of the Jews. So it seems very highly unlikely that there was a genuine Gentile version of the OT Hebrew Scriptures that was more accurate.
Second, there are also lots of problems with the LXX.
Just check out this article here...
The Septuagint -- Is It a Fraud or Forgery?
(Side Note: I agree with this article, but that does not mean I agree with anything else this author or website says).
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Well stated. For it is written...
“Arm yourselves likewise with the same mind that Christ had in that He suffered for us in the flesh; For he [i.e. the follower of God] should no longer live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God” (1 Peter 4:1-2).
Side Note:
The words in blue within brackets above is my commentary to the text.
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Mink61
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"Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the law?" Jesus declared, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and the greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:36-41
For me, that's all I need to know. The rest of the lessons in the NT tell me HOW to love God and my neighbor.
Good enough for me!
For me, that's all I need to know. The rest of the lessons in the NT tell me HOW to love God and my neighbor.
Good enough for me!
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JimD
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Posted by Loving Gods Word:
"Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
Everyone of God's 10 commandments dear friend (including God's 4th commandment Sabbath) are repeated in the New Testament."
You have not only used a faulty translation but also fail to understand that Heb. 3 & 4 is teaching us that the Sabbath is and always has been about salvation, not what day to worship God. Worshiping God is a privilege man enjoys every day, not just one day per week. Today, as long as there is a today.
"Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God."
(NAS95)
"Hebrews 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.
Everyone of God's 10 commandments dear friend (including God's 4th commandment Sabbath) are repeated in the New Testament."
You have not only used a faulty translation but also fail to understand that Heb. 3 & 4 is teaching us that the Sabbath is and always has been about salvation, not what day to worship God. Worshiping God is a privilege man enjoys every day, not just one day per week. Today, as long as there is a today.
"Heb 4:9 So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God."
(NAS95)
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GDL
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A few thoughts re: “mind” in the 1st greatest commandment:
- The LXX: Thanks for the article. I use the LXX mainly as a tool to show me how translators translated Hebrew to Greek and thus to help at times to correlate the NT to OT Scriptures. It can be quite helpful or not.
- The Scriptures:
- The Scriptures:
NKJ Deuteronomy 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.
NKJ Matthew 22:37 Jesus said to him, "`You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.'
NKJ Mark 12:30 `And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
NKJ Luke 10:27 So he answered and said, "`You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and`your neighbor as yourself. (Lev19:18)'"
- Observations:
- None of the NT quotations are 1 for 1 translations
- “mind” is added in each NT verse
- Since “mind” does seem to be a change, is Jesus pointing us to something else & thereby combining some references?
- The Greek word translated “mind” is dianoia
- 1 quick search shows dianoia is used 44 times in the LXX for various Hebrew words and in some interesting verses related to love for God & neighbor: It’s used in Lev19:17 which is part of the couplet of the 2nd great commandment (Lev19:18). Besides some other interesting LXX verses, a very interesting one is Jer31:33 as it is brought into the NT in Heb8:10 & 10:16
NKJ Jeremiah 31:33 "But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds (Hebrew = inward parts), and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
NKJ Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
NKJ Hebrews 10:16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,"
- Since love for God is keeping His commandments (1John5:3) - and since under the NC God’s laws are being put & written in/on our minds/hearts (note the way Heb8:10 & 10:16 interchange minds & hearts showing the correlation between the 2 words) – is this what Jesus was pointing us to: the 1st greatest commandment correlated to the NC?
Re: the mind of Christ in 1Cor2:16: This is not the same word used in the 1st greatest commandment. However, the 2 words are related.
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i) This isn't a command.
ii) How can you include this in a thread on NT commands when Jesus was quoting from the OT?
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It's a command for mankind. Thus, it's a non-explicit command. It's a command that is not spoken in a direct way to the reader (i.e. the believer), but it is commanded of all men and women (i.e. man shall not live by bread alone, etc.).
Take for example this Old Covenant command; It says:
“Only the firstling of the beasts, which should be the LORD'S firstling, no man shall sanctify it; whether it be ox, or sheep: it is the LORD'S.” (Leviticus 27:26).
Just by reading this, it surely feels like a command from God, and yet it uses the word “man” and not “you.”
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Certain Old Covenant Commands (i.e. the Moral Law) was carried over into the New Covenant (unless of course you don't think the two greatest commandments or you shall not murder, you shall not covet, etc. has not carried over).
The Moral Law (like do not steal, do not covet, do not murder, love your neighbor, etc.) are laws that are a part of nature of man. No law specifically told them to do these things. They did it by nature. For it is written:
“For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:” (Romans 2:14).
While Matthew 4:4 is not a moral law, we know that certain commands have repeated into the New Covenant from out of the Old by looking at the moral laws. So this shows that commands can be carried over from one covenant to the other. I believe the ceremonial laws (like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, etc.) have not carried over into the New Covenant. I believe the laws in the OT on justice have not carried over into the New Covenant (like stoning others for not keeping certain aspects of the Old Law). Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
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Thank you for that.
Here are a few verses that you may like, as well.
Numbers 24:13 says,
“If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the commandment of the LORD, to do either good or bad of mine own mind; but what the LORD saith, that will I speak?”
Psalms 1:2 says,
“But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.”
Psalms 119:97 says,
“O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.”
Proverbs 2:1-2 says,
“My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;”
Deuteronomy 6:6-9 says,
“And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.”
I see loving God with all your mind as focusing and studying on God's laws, and meditating upon them. Putting them before us every day. This could be in the form of writing them on flash cards, or it could be just looking over what you have written. It could be memorizing them. It could be placing them as signs in your home, and teaching others these commands.
I see loving God with all your heart as obeying God's commands. For Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments. Meaning, if we want to emotionally love God, we need to obey His commandments and not just think about them (although God does want us to think about them to and to fill our mind with them all the time, i.e. to love God with all your mind, too). But I believe that God wants us to think about His commands so as to be transformed by the renewing of our mind (Romans 12:2). In other words, picture a brain swap.
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Yes, at the core I agree. This would be my main list of commands that would be explicit.
There are other types of commands, but I list them into different categories. For example: Matthew 4:4 does not make it on to my main list that you would call imperative commands. It would be on a list that is speaking in a less direct way (i.e. because it is commanding mankind and not the reader). It's a command for mankind. For Jesus even commanded the wind and the waves.
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JimD
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[QUOTE="Bible Highlighter, post: 75611482, member: 356113"
When I speak of how we must obey God's laws: I am referring primarily to how we must obey those commands in the New Testament, and not the Old Testament. Things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, the Passover, etc. are ceremonial laws that are no longer binding upon the life of the believer today under the New Covenant. We should focus on obeying those commands that come from Jesus and His followers.
[/QUOTE] Only unbelievers are "bound" by the law, New and Old Testament believers are freed from the law by believing. This does not mean they are of no effect but are designed to lead us to Him. We are not saved by keeping the laws of the New and Old Testament but by believing in Him. The command to keep His commands, must be prefaced by the understanding that we cannot except by grace through faith. It is the old Paul vs James debate (are we saved by faith or faith and works?) We are saved by faith but it is a faith that will be followed by works, Paul emphasizing faith and James emphasizing works. We "try" to do good deeds and keep His commands but that is not what saves us, "least any man should boast".
When I speak of how we must obey God's laws: I am referring primarily to how we must obey those commands in the New Testament, and not the Old Testament. Things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, the Passover, etc. are ceremonial laws that are no longer binding upon the life of the believer today under the New Covenant. We should focus on obeying those commands that come from Jesus and His followers.
[/QUOTE] Only unbelievers are "bound" by the law, New and Old Testament believers are freed from the law by believing. This does not mean they are of no effect but are designed to lead us to Him. We are not saved by keeping the laws of the New and Old Testament but by believing in Him. The command to keep His commands, must be prefaced by the understanding that we cannot except by grace through faith. It is the old Paul vs James debate (are we saved by faith or faith and works?) We are saved by faith but it is a faith that will be followed by works, Paul emphasizing faith and James emphasizing works. We "try" to do good deeds and keep His commands but that is not what saves us, "least any man should boast".
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GDL
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I appreciate the separating of mind, heart, thinking, obeying, emotion etc., and I also do this separating for study & explanation purposes. At the end of it all, it's a call to love God with the entirety of our being, everything that we are & are made up of as His creatures, His children (as Christians).
One of the interesting Greek words that comes to mind in all of this is typically translated as "understanding," but when it's defined in Greek it speaks of pieces coming together. I see this as ultimately telling us how all these separate pieces of information ultimately come together in a child of God and how we end up with all of our faculties & functions working in unison as they were created to, and all just finally makes sense.
Romans 12:2:
- Interestingly, you bring up the renewal of the mind in Romans 12:2. "Mind" here is the same word Carl Emerson brought up from 1Cor - we have the mind of Christ. It's focusing on the faculty of intellectual perception, the way of thinking & the result of that thinking.
- Speaking of NT commands, there are 2 in this verse:
- Speaking of NT commands, there are 2 in this verse:
- Do not be conformed (formed/molded/modeled) to this age
- You can see the context of bodily sacrifice to God for service in 12:1 in 12:3 on about being a functional member of the body of Christ
- Be transformed by the renewing of your mind/intellect/thinking
- Obviously this pertains to what it clearly speaks of - a complete change in our thinking
- transformation is amazing here as it's the same word used in the "transfiguration" of Jesus Christ in Matt17 & Mark9. It's also used by Paul in 2Cor3:18 where he says we are being transformed into the image of the Lord's glory by the Spirit. So we can try to envision this transformation by thinking of His transfiguration!
- In Christ, this transformation is thus based in our mind/thinking being renewed.
- There's also a purpose stated after these commands. We can see how the translators differ on what this is. When they say something like "prove" what the will of God is, this word goes into concepts of assaying a metal, gold for instance, to determine and prove it's purity and thus value. IMO it's telling us that by the renewing of our mind, we can come to see and prove the infinite value of [knowing & doing] God's will. This then ties into our being transformed (literally metamorphosized) into the image of the glory of Christ.- transformation is amazing here as it's the same word used in the "transfiguration" of Jesus Christ in Matt17 & Mark9. It's also used by Paul in 2Cor3:18 where he says we are being transformed into the image of the Lord's glory by the Spirit. So we can try to envision this transformation by thinking of His transfiguration!
- In Christ, this transformation is thus based in our mind/thinking being renewed.
Amazing stuff! All based in NT commands.
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First, whenever Paul used the words, “law,” or “works,” he is referring to the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal that has been done away with (Note: This does not mean certain laws have not carried over into the New Testament). Anyways, Paul was fighting against the heresy of what I call, “Circumcision Salvationism.” This was the false belief that says that a person needs to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved. Circumcision was a part of the Old Law and not the new laws given to us by Jesus and His followers. If a person thought they had to first be circumcised in order to be saved, they would be making the Law the basis for their salvation and not faith in Jesus Christ and His redemptive work. This would in effect be Law Alone Salvationism without God's grace as the entrance gate of life, and the foundation of their salvation. This heresy was addressed at the Jerusalem council in Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. Paul also addressed this problem. In Galatians 5:2, he says if you seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. Also see Romans 3:1, Romans 4:10-12, Galatians 2:3. Thus, this is why Paul appeared to speak negatively of the Law and works. He was referring to being justified by the Old Law alone without God's grace. But Paul was not speaking against the words of Jesus in Matthew 19:17, and Luke 10:25-28. If that was the case, then Paul would have condemned himself by his own words (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4).
Second, if no law or commandment is related to salvation, then what do you make of the following command?
“And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” (1 John 3:23).
So things are not as you say. Paul was referring to the 1st aspect of salvation in being saved by God's grace in Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5, Romans 4:3-6. Paul was not referring to the Sanctification Process that is the second phase or aspect in God's plan of salvation. Paul mentions elsewhere in Scripture the necessity of the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation (See: Romans 8:1, Romans 8:13, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Titus 1:16, Romans 11:21-22).
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I believe Romans 12:1-2 are related, but I also take the command in Romans 12:1 to “offer our bodies as a willing sacrifice” as more of loving God with all our soul. I see that as a life pledge to Christ, and in giving up the things of this world in order to follow Christ no matter what. That we are willing to die for Christ and deny ourselves for Him. This is how I see the aspect of loving God with all your soul. We offer our bodies as a willing sacrifice which is our reasonable service. The renewing of one's mind does play a part, but I see that more as loving God with all our mind. It does work in harmony with loving God with all one's soul. So I see Romans 12:1 as loving God with all your soul, and Romans 12:2 as loving God with all one's mind. These two work together in harmony with each other and yet they are also unique, as well.
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