Only two covenants are presented in the New Testament

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
....and some posters on this forum have posited that the New Covenant (as known as the everlasting covenant or covenant of grace) is NOT fulfilled. That would mean the Old Covenant....aka, the Mosaic Covenant, the covenant made on Mt Sinai has not ended. That denies our salvation and what Christ Jesus has done.

This has come up in many different threads, and I wanted to discuss it as its own topic.

How can it be made any more clear (that the old gave way in order that the new can be fully established) than the complete destruction and permanent removal of the Temple and religious system in 70 AD?
 

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Christians are living under the New Covenant. Everyone else is living under the Old Covenant. Grace is for believers only.
The old covenant was formed on Mt Sinai with Moses as the mediator. A sign of being in that covenant with God was circumcision....but there were Laws to adhere to.

Now it's impossible to follow the Old Covenant Law as there's no Temple....no Levitical High priest....no holy of holies on earth......no earthly sanctuary.

Hebrews 9:1

Now the first covenant (a) had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary.

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant,(c) He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Nova2216

If truth is discounted then lies become normal.
May 16, 2020
373
82
America
Visit site
✟40,343.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
....and some posters on this forum have posited that the New Covenant (as known as the everlasting covenant or covenant of grace) is NOT fulfilled. That would (Jews alone) mean the Old Covenant....aka, the Mosaic Covenant, the covenant made on Mt Sinai has not ended. That denies our salvation and what Christ Jesus has done.

This has come up in many different threads, and I wanted to discuss it as its own topic.

How can it be made any more clear (that the old gave way in order that the new can be fully established) than the complete destruction and permanent removal of the Temple and religious system in 70 AD?

The OT Laws (10 commandments) were only given to the Jews according to (Ex.34:27,27).

This OT covenant (10 comm) was made between God and Israel (Jews alone). (no one today)

According to (Jer.31:31-34) a New Law was to be established in the future and it would not be according to the OT Law (10 comm). This NT Law will have a provision which would forgive sin. Notice (Acts 2:38 ; 22:16).

In "the last days" the Lords house (or church) will be established and "all men will flow into it" (Isa.2:1-5) (Joel 2:28).

These scriptures point to (Acts 2) as the establishment of the NT Law. (Acts 2:16,17)

(Acts 2:16,17) says "this is that" which was spoken of by the prophet Joel (Joel 2:28). Meaning these are the last days and the time the NT Law was to be established. (Acts 2)

We see the entrance requirements to the Lord's kingdom (or church) in (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16). This is supported by (Mark 16:16) (Rom. 6:3-6,16-18) (Jn 3:3-5) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Titus 3:5) (Col.2:11,12) (Heb. 10:22)

The OT Law (10 comm) ended at the cross according to (Rom.10:4) (Eph.2:14-17) (Col.2:14-17) (Heb.7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10).

All men are under the NT Law today (Mark 16:15,16) (Mt.28:18-20).

Go to "all nations" and to "every creature" and teach and preach the truth about how to be saved - (Mark 16:15,16) (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 22:16) (1Peter 3:20,21).

What do you teach?
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
These scriptures point to (Acts 2) as the establishment of the NT Law. (Acts 2:16,17)

(Acts 2:16,17) says "this is that" which was spoken of by the prophet Joel (Joel 2:28). Meaning these are the last days and the time the NT Law was to be established. (Acts 2)

We see the entrance requirements to the Lord's kingdom (or church) in (Acts 2:38,47 ; 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16). This is supported by (Mark 16:16) (Rom. 6:3-6,16-18) (Jn 3:3-5) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Titus 3:5) (Col.2:11,12) (Heb. 10:22)
Well done. I completely agree and appreciate your Scripture references.
The OT Law (10 comm) ended at the cross according to (Rom.10:4) (Eph.2:14-17) (Col.2:14-17) (Heb.7:12 ; 8:6-13 ; 9:15-17 ; 10:9,10).
This is where I think this topic gets difficult. The old covenant is more than just the ten commandments. The entire old covenant religious system was based on a temple on earth....rituals performed by human priests...and was following a timeline laid out in Daniel 9.

While Jesus was the final sacrifice that rendered the old covenant obsolete.....the old covenant didn't "disappear" until 70 AD when the Temple and entire religious system was removed.

These passages were written after the Cross, but prior to 70 AD:

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,776
3,419
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,168.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
....and some posters on this forum have posited that the New Covenant (as known as the everlasting covenant or covenant of grace) is NOT fulfilled.
The issue centers around the word "fulifilled". Has it been fulfilled that the Jews, Israel,believe in Jesus for Salvation from their sins? No, they en masse have not.

God has established the terms and actions for the new covenant, but the Jews, Israel, have yet to say "we do" enter into it.
 
Upvote 0

mkgal1

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33
Site Supporter
Jun 22, 2007
27,339
7,349
California
✟551,233.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
The issue centers around the word "fulifilled". Has it been fulfilled that the Jews, Israel,believe in Jesus for Salvation from their sins? No, they en masse have not.

God has established the terms and actions for the new covenant, but the Jews, Israel, have yet to say "we do" enter into it.
As I've posted often - we wouldn't even have a religion called "Christianity" if the promised remnant hadn't placed their hopes and faith in Jesus as their Messiah. No where is it promised that the Israelites "en masse" would accept Him or else there wouldn't be all the prophecies of the judgement that was to come upon the first century apostate Israelites.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hazelelponi
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,776
3,419
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,168.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
As I've posted often - we wouldn't even have a religion called "Christianity" if the promised remnant hadn't placed their hopes and faith in Jesus as their Messiah. No where is it promised that the Israelites "en masse" would accept Him or else there wouldn't be all the prophecies of the judgement that was to come upon the first century apostate Israelites.
Did Israel en masse say "we do" to the terms of the Mt Sinai covenant there that day when it was presented to them? The answer is "yes".

All Israel shall be saved... the Jews en masse will believe on Jesus during the great tribulation.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,672
2,491
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,155.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
We are currently not under any Covenant, we have the Promise of it in the future:

On the cross of Jesus, for both Jews and Gentiles 1, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished, 2 disannulled, 3 rendered obsolete, 4 taken away and replaced, 5 by the better hope, 6 a better covenant, 7 the 2nd covenant, 8 of Jesus' New Covenant law, 9 so that the law was changed. 10

All believers, both Jews and Gentiles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and shouldn't keep it, 11 or have any desire to keep it. 12 Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, 13 by loving others, 14 and by doing to others as they would have others do to them. 15

The New Covenant is a new law, 16 consisting of Jesus' New Testament commandments, 17 such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount, 18 and in the epistles of Paul the apostle. 19 These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. 20 So there's no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. 21 It was just a temporary schoolmaster, 22 a temporary shadow, 23 which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before that promise in Jesus' New Covenant. 24

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant. 25 For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood, 26 whereas the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood. 27 Also, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices, 28 whereas the New Covenant replaces those with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus. 29

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah, 30 so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will have the New Covenant are like Isaac. 31

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the 10 commandments), written and engraved in stones, 32 was the ministration of death and condemnation. 33 For example, 34 and contrast these with the New Covenant. 35 The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been done away, 36 and abolished. 37 But it's still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus, 38 whereas the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness, 39 which remains, 40 and which will permit believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus. 41

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved, 42 or in order to become perfect. 43 This is a false, cursed gospel. 44 For if any believers are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace. 45


1/ John 11:51-52…Caiphas prophesied that Jesus would die for all the children of God.

2/ Ephesians 2:15-16 for He annulled the Law, creating a single new humanity in Himself.

2/ Colossians 2:14 He cancelled the Law with its legal demands, nailing it to the Cross.

3/ Hebrews 7:18 The earlier rules are repealed as ineffective and useless.

4/ Galatians 3:13 Christ bought us freedom from the curse of the Law, for all mankind.

4/ Hebrews 8:13 The New Covenant makes the Old obsolete.

5/ Hebrews 10:9 Jesus abolished the former to establish the latter.

6/ Hebrews 7:19 The Law brought nothing to perfection, now we have a better hope…

7/ Hebrews 7:22 God’s oath shows how superior is the Covenant that Jesus guarantees.

7/ Hebrews 8:10 In the latter days, I shall set My Laws in their hearts…

8/ Hebrews 8:7 The second Covenant is superior to, and replaces the first Covenant.

9/ John 1:17 The Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth come from Jesus.

9/ Matthew 26:28 This is My blood of the Covenant, shed for many to forgive sins.

10/ Hebrews 7:12 A change of the priesthood must mean a change of Law.

11/ Romans 7:6… we are released from the old Law, to serve God in the spirit.

11/ 2 Cor. 3:6 The written Law condemns to death, but Spirit gives life.

12/ Galatians 5:4 When you seek to be justified by Law, you are cut off from Grace.

12/ Galatians 3:4 No one is justified by the old Law, only by faith can anyone gain life.

13/ Romans 7:6 We serve God in a new way, the way of the spirit.

14/ Romans 13:7-10 The Commandments are summed up in one rule: Love your neighbour.

15/ Matthew 7:12 Treat others as you would have them treat you, that is all the Law.

16/ Hebrews 10:1 The old Law is but a shadow of a better one to come.

17/ John 14:15 If you love Me, you will obey My commands.

18/ Matthew 5:21-48…there must be no limit to your goodness…

19/ 1 Cor. 13:13 Three things last forever: Faith, hope and love, the greatest is love.

20/ Matthew 5:20 Unless you do better than the Pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom.

21/ Galatians 3:2 Did you receive the spirit by the Law or by the Gospel message?

22/ Galatians 3:24 The Law was enforced until Christ, now we are justified through faith.

23/ Col. 2:17 It was but a shadow of greater things, the reality is Christ.

24/ Galatians 3:19 The Law was an interim measure, pending the arrival of the promised One.

24/ Isaiah 59:21… My Covenant which I will make with My people: My spirit will rest on them.

24/ Jeremiah 31:31-34 The days are coming; I shall set My Laws within My people’s hearts.

25/ Hebrews 8:13 He has pronounced the first one obsolete, it must be replaced.

26/ Exodus 30:30 Consecrate Aaron and his sons to be My priests.

27/ Hebrews 7:11-28 Perfection was not attained by the Aaronic priesthood, because death removes them. By God’s oath, Jesus is high priest forever.

28/ Leviticus 23:19 You are to prepare a he-goat and two sheep as an offering.

29/ Hebrews 10:5-7 Jesus came and offered His body as the final sacrifice.

30/ Galatians 4:23-31…the old Covenant is like Hagar; born onto slavery, now you my friends, are like Isaac, the children of God’s promise.

31/ Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ set us free, stand firm in your faith and refuse to submit again to the yoke of slavery.

32/ Deut. 27:8 Inscribe onto stones all the words of the Law…

33/ 2 Cor. 3:7 The Covenant that brought death, came in a glory that soon faded.

34/ Numbers 15:32-36 A man gathered sticks on the Sabbath, he was stoned to death.

35/ Matthew 12:6-8…Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. It is mercy I require, not sacrifice.

36/ 2 Cor. 3:11 The old Law fades away, greater is the glory of what endures!

37/ 2 Cor. 3:14b… only in Christ is the old Covenant lifted.

38/ 2 Cor. 3:15 To this day, a veil lies over the mind of those who follow the old Law.

39/ 2 Cor. 3:9 If glory accompanied the ministry that brought death, how much greater must be the glory of the Covenant the brings acquittal!

40/ 2 Cor. 5:1 We know that when we die, we will possess eternal life.

41/ 2 Cor. 3:16-17 Whoever turns to the Spirit of the Lord, the veil is removed.

41/ Ephesians 2:18 For through Jesus, we have access to the Father in the one Spirit.

41/ Col. 3:17 Let your every word and action be to the glory of Jesus…

42/ Acts 15:5…these Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses.

43/ Galatians 3:3-9 Can you be so stupid? You now have the Gospel and its promised blessings, keep your faith, as Abraham did.

44/ Galatians 1:9 I warn you: do not preach any other Gospel, cursed be anything else.

45/ Galatians 5:2-4 If you get circumcised in the Law, Christ will benefit you no more. When you seek to be justified by way of the Law, you have put yourself outside God’s grace.
Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: ForHimbyHim
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟783,767.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The issue centers around the word "fulifilled". Has it been fulfilled that the Jews, Israel,believe in Jesus for Salvation from their sins? No, they en masse have not.

God has established the terms and actions for the new covenant, but the Jews, Israel, have yet to say "we do" enter into it.

Yes, quoting from your dispenbible:

Matthew 26
28 for this is my unfulfilling blood of the unfulfilled new covenant, that for many is being poured out -- to no remission of sins;

A number on this forum have copies of the dispenbible.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The issue centers around the word "fulifilled". Has it been fulfilled that the Jews, Israel,believe in Jesus for Salvation from their sins? No, they en masse have not.
Is that what the new covenant is about? All or most Jews being saved? Absolutely not. The new covenant is simply all about salvation being available to all people, Jew or Gentile, through faith in Jesus Christ and His death and resurrection. This offer of salvation through the new covenant has been available to all Jews for a long time. What more can God do for them but to sacrifice His Son for their sins as He did long ago?

God has established the terms and actions for the new covenant, but the Jews, Israel, have yet to say "we do" enter into it.
There is no such thing as corporate salvation. Each individual must choose whether to accept or reject Christ.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Whosoever believeth in Him. Not whichever nation believeth in Him.

Revelation 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

It's let whosever is thirsty come and take the water of life freely. Not let the nation who is thirsty come and take water of life freely.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Did Israel en masse say "we do" to the terms of the Mt Sinai covenant there that day when it was presented to them? The answer is "yes".

All Israel shall be saved... the Jews en masse will believe on Jesus during the great tribulation.
Which Israel are you talking about? Can you please tell me your interpretation of the following passage? One of the two Israels Paul mentions here only consists of those who are saved (the children of God and of the promise). Can you identify which one that is?

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Nova2216

If truth is discounted then lies become normal.
May 16, 2020
373
82
America
Visit site
✟40,343.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Well done. I completely agree and appreciate your Scripture references.

This is where I think this topic gets difficult. The old covenant is more than just the ten commandments - the entire old covenant religious system was based on a temple on earth....rituals performed by human priests...and was following a timeline laid out in Daniel 9.

While Jesus was the final sacrifice that rendered the old covenant obsolete.....the old covenant didn't "disappear" until 70 AD when the Temple and entire religious system was removed.

These passages were written after the Cross, but prior to 70 AD:

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.

We must keep in mind that (Heb. 8:6-13) is actually a quote from (Jer. 31:31-34).

(Rom. 10:4) helps to settle when the OT Law ended.

OT Law / The cross / NT Law

Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Heb 9:15 ¶ And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

Heb 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


The above information gives us the time and how the NT Law was to be established.

Focus on these words.

...For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth. 18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood. (Heb. 9:17)
 
Upvote 0

Nova2216

If truth is discounted then lies become normal.
May 16, 2020
373
82
America
Visit site
✟40,343.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
We are currently not under any Covenant, we have the Promise of it in the future:

On the cross of Jesus, for both Jews and Gentiles 1, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished, 2 disannulled, 3 rendered obsolete, 4 taken away and replaced, 5 by the better hope, 6 a better covenant, 7 the 2nd covenant, 8 of Jesus' New Covenant law, 9 so that the law was changed. 10

All believers, both Jews and Gentiles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and shouldn't keep it, 11 or have any desire to keep it. 12 Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, 13 by loving others, 14 and by doing to others as they would have others do to them. 15

The New Covenant is a new law, 16 consisting of Jesus' New Testament commandments, 17 such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount, 18 and in the epistles of Paul the apostle. 19 These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. 20 So there's no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. 21 It was just a temporary schoolmaster, 22 a temporary shadow, 23 which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before that promise in Jesus' New Covenant. 24

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant. 25 For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood, 26 whereas the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood. 27 Also, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices, 28 whereas the New Covenant replaces those with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus. 29

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah, 30 so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who will have the New Covenant are like Isaac. 31

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the 10 commandments), written and engraved in stones, 32 was the ministration of death and condemnation. 33 For example, 34 and contrast these with the New Covenant. 35 The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been done away, 36 and abolished. 37 But it's still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus, 38 whereas the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness, 39 which remains, 40 and which will permit believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus. 41

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved, 42 or in order to become perfect. 43 This is a false, cursed gospel. 44 For if any believers are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace. 45


1/ John 11:51-52…Caiphas prophesied that Jesus would die for all the children of God.

2/ Ephesians 2:15-16 for He annulled the Law, creating a single new humanity in Himself.

2/ Colossians 2:14 He cancelled the Law with its legal demands, nailing it to the Cross.

3/ Hebrews 7:18 The earlier rules are repealed as ineffective and useless.

4/ Galatians 3:13 Christ bought us freedom from the curse of the Law, for all mankind.

4/ Hebrews 8:13 The New Covenant makes the Old obsolete.

5/ Hebrews 10:9 Jesus abolished the former to establish the latter.

6/ Hebrews 7:19 The Law brought nothing to perfection, now we have a better hope…

7/ Hebrews 7:22 God’s oath shows how superior is the Covenant that Jesus guarantees.

7/ Hebrews 8:10 In the latter days, I shall set My Laws in their hearts…

8/ Hebrews 8:7 The second Covenant is superior to, and replaces the first Covenant.

9/ John 1:17 The Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth come from Jesus.

9/ Matthew 26:28 This is My blood of the Covenant, shed for many to forgive sins.

10/ Hebrews 7:12 A change of the priesthood must mean a change of Law.

11/ Romans 7:6… we are released from the old Law, to serve God in the spirit.

11/ 2 Cor. 3:6 The written Law condemns to death, but Spirit gives life.

12/ Galatians 5:4 When you seek to be justified by Law, you are cut off from Grace.

12/ Galatians 3:4 No one is justified by the old Law, only by faith can anyone gain life.

13/ Romans 7:6 We serve God in a new way, the way of the spirit.

14/ Romans 13:7-10 The Commandments are summed up in one rule: Love your neighbour.

15/ Matthew 7:12 Treat others as you would have them treat you, that is all the Law.

16/ Hebrews 10:1 The old Law is but a shadow of a better one to come.

17/ John 14:15 If you love Me, you will obey My commands.

18/ Matthew 5:21-48…there must be no limit to your goodness…

19/ 1 Cor. 13:13 Three things last forever: Faith, hope and love, the greatest is love.

20/ Matthew 5:20 Unless you do better than the Pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom.

21/ Galatians 3:2 Did you receive the spirit by the Law or by the Gospel message?

22/ Galatians 3:24 The Law was enforced until Christ, now we are justified through faith.

23/ Col. 2:17 It was but a shadow of greater things, the reality is Christ.

24/ Galatians 3:19 The Law was an interim measure, pending the arrival of the promised One.

24/ Isaiah 59:21… My Covenant which I will make with My people: My spirit will rest on them.

24/ Jeremiah 31:31-34 The days are coming; I shall set My Laws within My people’s hearts.

25/ Hebrews 8:13 He has pronounced the first one obsolete, it must be replaced.

26/ Exodus 30:30 Consecrate Aaron and his sons to be My priests.

27/ Hebrews 7:11-28 Perfection was not attained by the Aaronic priesthood, because death removes them. By God’s oath, Jesus is high priest forever.

28/ Leviticus 23:19 You are to prepare a he-goat and two sheep as an offering.

29/ Hebrews 10:5-7 Jesus came and offered His body as the final sacrifice.

30/ Galatians 4:23-31…the old Covenant is like Hagar; born onto slavery, now you my friends, are like Isaac, the children of God’s promise.

31/ Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ set us free, stand firm in your faith and refuse to submit again to the yoke of slavery.

32/ Deut. 27:8 Inscribe onto stones all the words of the Law…

33/ 2 Cor. 3:7 The Covenant that brought death, came in a glory that soon faded.

34/ Numbers 15:32-36 A man gathered sticks on the Sabbath, he was stoned to death.

35/ Matthew 12:6-8…Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. It is mercy I require, not sacrifice.

36/ 2 Cor. 3:11 The old Law fades away, greater is the glory of what endures!

37/ 2 Cor. 3:14b… only in Christ is the old Covenant lifted.

38/ 2 Cor. 3:15 To this day, a veil lies over the mind of those who follow the old Law.

39/ 2 Cor. 3:9 If glory accompanied the ministry that brought death, how much greater must be the glory of the Covenant the brings acquittal!

40/ 2 Cor. 5:1 We know that when we die, we will possess eternal life.

41/ 2 Cor. 3:16-17 Whoever turns to the Spirit of the Lord, the veil is removed.

41/ Ephesians 2:18 For through Jesus, we have access to the Father in the one Spirit.

41/ Col. 3:17 Let your every word and action be to the glory of Jesus…

42/ Acts 15:5…these Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses.

43/ Galatians 3:3-9 Can you be so stupid? You now have the Gospel and its promised blessings, keep your faith, as Abraham did.

44/ Galatians 1:9 I warn you: do not preach any other Gospel, cursed be anything else.

45/ Galatians 5:2-4 If you get circumcised in the Law, Christ will benefit you no more. When you seek to be justified by way of the Law, you have put yourself outside God’s grace.
Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

If we are not under law today there can be no sin b/c sin is transgression of Gods law. (1Jn 3:4).

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do you believe one can sin today?
 
Upvote 0

Nova2216

If truth is discounted then lies become normal.
May 16, 2020
373
82
America
Visit site
✟40,343.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Divorced
Well done. I completely agree and appreciate your Scripture references.

This is where I think this topic gets difficult. The old covenant is more than just the ten commandments - the entire old covenant religious system was based on a temple on earth....rituals performed by human priests...and was following a timeline laid out in Daniel 9.

While Jesus was the final sacrifice that rendered the old covenant obsolete.....the old covenant didn't "disappear" until 70 AD when the Temple and entire religious system was removed.

These passages were written after the Cross, but prior to 70 AD:

Hebrews 8:13
By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Galatians 4:25
Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present-day Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children.
One other point.

We see that (Dan. 2:44) (Isa.2:1-5) (Joel 2:28) points men to the time when the OT Law ended and the NT Law began.

Let's see how and when that is done.
Let's look to (Luke 24:44-49).


Lu 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.


Now notice (Acts 1:5,8).

Ac 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence....Ac 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

We see this happening in (Acts 2:1-4).

The Holy Spirit comes upon the apostles.(Acts 2:1-4)

A Law is taught by which people entered the Lords church (kingdom) (Acts 2:38,47).

People were added to this kingdom (church) during the first century according to (Col. 1:13).

Ac 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; (Joel 2:28)

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,776
3,419
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,168.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Which Israel are you talking about?
Isaiah 66:7 Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.(1)

8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? (2) for as soon as Zion travailed (3), she brought forth her children.

(1) Before the great tribulation begins, 2000 years ago to Israel, Jesus was borne.

(2) Israel became a nation again in one day in 1948.

(3) As soon as Israel enters the great tribulation, the Jews en masse with become believers in Jesus and the gospel of salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,776
3,419
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,168.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
As I've posted often - we wouldn't even have a religion called "Christianity" if the promised remnant hadn't placed their hopes and faith in Jesus as their Messiah. No where is it promised that the Israelites "en masse" would accept Him or else there wouldn't be all the prophecies of the judgement that was to come upon the first century apostate Israelites.
Everything in it's season. The Jews, Israel, haven't yet received Jesus and the gospel of salvation.
 
Upvote 0

Kenneth Heck

Active Member
Sep 13, 2019
110
9
81
Carlisle
✟17,292.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
All covenants of blood are everlasting. The covenant with Noah is everlasting (Gen 9:16). The covenant with Abraham is everlasting (Gen 17:7). The Mosaic covenant is everlasting (Ps 105:10, Isa 24.5), although not said specifically by Moses. These three are still in effect. It is the error of Balaam to suppose that the sins of the people would nullify the Mosaic covenant. Sin only invites judgment by God, not nullification of these covenants.

The Aaronic covenant was of salt (Num 18:19), also called everlasting, but nullifiable due to sin. The final sins of the Aaronic line were the slaughter of the innocents and the crucifixion of Christ. The new and more perfect covenant of Christ has replaced the Aaronic covenant with the Melchizedek priesthood and Christ as the High Priest.

The Mosaic covenant was not nullified, but underwent major modifications made by the Jews themselves in order to live outside the Holy Land. It is the ten commandments, written on stone that are everlasting. All the other laws, ordinances, etc., written on parchment and subject to decay, can be changed to reflect the conditions Jews actually live under. Over the centuries, the Jewish religion has evolved to be more closely in line with Christianity, anticipating amalgamating the two together (law and grace) at the second coming of Christ to judge the nations.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Brian Mcnamee
Upvote 0

Christian Gedge

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2017
1,214
1,361
Waikato
Visit site
✟227,210.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If we are not under law today there can be no sin b/c sin is transgression of Gods law. (1Jn 3:4).

1Jo 3:4 ¶ Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Do you believe one can sin today?
We can sin, yes. But can we be condemned? No, not if we are under the law of Christ. As I understand it, unbelievers are still under law and also under condemnation. Otherwise we would have universalism.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The issue centers around the word "fulifilled". Has it been fulfilled that the Jews, Israel,believe in Jesus for Salvation from their sins? No, they en masse have not.

God has established the terms and actions for the new covenant, but the Jews, Israel, have yet to say "we do" enter into it.


You are ignoring what happened on the Day of Pentecost when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ.

You are also ignoring Romans 2:28-29, and Romans 9:8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5, and James 1:1-3.

Based on Romans 9:27, there is never coming a time when every Jew on the planet will accept Christ.
Do you think Paul was confused when he quoted this verse?


.
 
Upvote 0