Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

1an · Dec 18, 2020

Major1 said:
You do it my your imagination.

You speak of disinformation when you actually do not seem able to read and grasp the plain English in Mark 16:14.........
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen."

TO THE ELEVEN!!!!

How hard is that?

Luke 10:17-18 is important. Jesus appointed 70 to go into every city and place. When they came back Jesus told them he had a vision of Satan falling down from heaven like lightening. The permanent downfall of Satan is future. The times in which we live are not perfect. The Republican's guns haven't been turned into plowshers yet.
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NBB · Dec 18, 2020

Major1 said:
Instead of making personal attacks I suggest that you actually READ the Bible and do the study needed to be a workman approved by God.

Your "opinions" of casting out demons makes me laugh and actually shows how little you really know about the Scriptures of Gods Word. I am always amazed at people such as yourself who hide behind a computer screen and make accusations and then bold statements that can never be verified.

I would say that if you ever came face to face with a real demon of Stan, you would drop dead in your tracks instead of bragging about having whipped one. That is really funny!!!!

Mark 3:14........
"He appointed twelve of them, whom He designated as apostles, to accompany Him, to be sent out to preach, 15and to have authority to drive out demons. 16These are the twelve He appointed".

You were not included in the TWELVE!

Matthew 7:22-23
"Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

So your defense is a interpretation of the bible and one not that many hold at that... in 'our' defense, myself i was tormented with intrusive thoughts that stopped immediately when an evil spirit left of me in the name of Jesus.

If you think people who is in this forum, is behind a screen lying and making bold claims, you are very mistaken, i'm very serious when i say your intrerpretation of the bible is not realistic, at all, also i have seen the results of driving evil spirits away.

Also demons are still in people, and they just don't vanish when people convert, so you are saying you and others thinking like this have no solution to spiritual problems, the bible teaches that demons/evil spirits go away in the name of Jesus, with the authority/grace given by God.

And you don't need to be a 'super apostle' to do this, you need to insist on praying and have a good relationship with God at most.

(I would not think anyone should go 'demon hunting' or something without care now, without considering their things) just to clarify, i don't know who will read this.

1an · Dec 18, 2020

Major1 said:
Take all the time you want to. I am also an "Old Earth" believer but that has nothing to do whatsoever with your thesis.

Has it dawned upon you that in the BILLION os years past, GOD HIMSELF could have been the light of the universe????

Then just as well as that, the sun was begun on the first day but not completed until the fourth. The idea behind this view is that God's creation was a process. Yes, I know that there is no Scripture to support that.

The Scofield Reference Bible says:

Neither here nor in verses 14-18 is an original creative act implied. A different word is used. The sense is, made to appear; made visible. The sun and the moon were created in the beginning. The light of course came from the sun, but the vapour diffused the light. Later the sun appeared in an unclouded sky (The Scofield Reference Bible, edited by C.I. Scofield, New York, Oxford University Press, 1909, p. 3, note 4).
You say you are old earth, and then you follow up and defend young earth by saying the sun was hidden by clouds.
.

Then....if you base your whole thesis on the absense of the Sun's light, then you need to explain the Bible fact thatthere will be light without the sun in the future New Jerusalem.

And there shall be no night there: They shall need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign for ever and ever (Revelation 22:5).

The sun shall no longer be your light by day, nor for brightness the moon shall give light to you; but the Lord will be your everlasting light (Isaiah 60:19).

You say you are old earth, and then you defend young earth by saying the sun was hidden by clouds.

Francis Drake · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
You do it my your imagination.

This is gobbledegook, not English.

You speak of disinformation when you actually do not seem able to read and grasp the plain English in Mark 16:14.........
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen."

TO THE ELEVEN!!!!

Jesus sent 70 out doing the same as the 12, which disproves your fool theology.
Sadly, people like you always do your best to ensure the gospel is just powerless intellectualism.

Francis Drake · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
IF you did, and you are bragging about it then it must be known facts.

Don't be ridiculous. It was a simple statement of fact, not bragging.

That being the case I am sure you can now give us the place and names of those who witnessed your amazing feats.

It's not an amazing feat to obey Jesus's directions in casting demons out.
You may be a gossip monger, but ministering to people, whether in deliverance from demons or not, is usually a private affair, and not for public exposure. Is it your church practice to spread personal confidences around the community?

Major1 · Dec 19, 2020

Francis Drake said:
Don't be ridiculous. It was a simple statement of fact, not bragging.

It's not an amazing feat to obey Jesus's directions in casting demons out.
You may be a gossip monger, but ministering to people, whether in deliverance from demons or not, is usually a private affair, and not for public exposure. Is it your church practice to spread personal confidences around the community?

So then I guess you are not able to verify your statements. Funny, but I was pretty sure that you would not be able to do so.

This has nothing to do with me or my church my friend. IT was YOU who made the claims not me. That being the case the burden of proof rests with you not me.

My experienced observation is that a lot of people who claim something do so to appear to be something that they are not. Now THAT is just an opinion.

Major1 · Dec 19, 2020

Francis Drake said:
This is gobbledegook, not English.

Jesus sent 70 out doing the same as the 12, which disproves your fool theology.
Sadly, people like you always do your best to ensure the gospel is just powerless intellectualism.

That is simply not Biblical truth.

The ELEVEN apostles were the only ones standing in front of Jesus in Mar 16.

Luke 10:1-9 is the record of your post......
: “[1] After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. [2] Therefore said he unto them, The harvest truly is great, but the labourers are few: pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he would send forth labourers into his harvest. [3] Go your ways: behold, I send you forth as lambs among wolves. [4] Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way. [5] And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house. [6] And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again. [7] And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house. [8] And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: [9] And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you."

While similar to the 12 Apostles, these 70 men are not to be confused with them which you are trying to do. THAT is called "Rationalizing" so as to make something fit what YOU want it to say and not what the Scriptures actually say.

It is a process of deceit and false teaching.

For example, carefully compare Matthew 10:1-42, Mark 3:14-19, Mark 6:7-13, Luke 9:1-6, and Luke 10:1-20.

Both the 12 Apostles and the 70 were commissioned to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom in Israel’s cities, confirming that message with the two Kingdom miracles—that is, healing the sick and casting out devils. What makes the 70 unique, however, is Jesus sent them in pairs to cities and towns before He visited those areas. They were to prepare the people for His arrival. After their first and only appearance (Luke chapter 10), these 70 preachers drop off from the pages of Scripture. Consequently, we do not know what ultimately happened to them.

Again, as is the case with the 12 Apostles, there is NO/NONE/ZERO Scriptures that confirm an ongoing and continuing office.

NBB · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
So then I guess you are not able to verify your statements. Funny, but I was pretty sure that you would not be able to do so.

This has nothing to do with me or my church my friend. IT was YOU who made the claims not me. That being the case the burden of proof rests with you not me.

My experienced observation is that a lot of people who claim something do so to appear to be something that they are not. Now THAT is just an opinion.

There is a 'cloud of witnesses' about being delivered from the devil with deliverance, so what if he told you about names etc? its the same....

Francis Drake · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
The ELEVEN apostles were the only ones standing in front of Jesus in Mar 16.
Luke 10:1-9 is the record of your post......
: “[1] After these things the Lord appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. ..........
......[8] And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you: [9] And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you."

While similar to the 12 Apostles, these 70 men are not to be confused with them which you are trying to do. THAT is called "Rationalizing" so as to make something fit what YOU want it to say and not what the Scriptures actually say.

Your obfuscation is so vivid to anyone reading that scripture. To hide the truth, you deliberately terminate the quote prior to verse 17.
17Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

ie. The command to cast out demons was given to more than the apostles.

Major1 · Dec 19, 2020

Francis Drake said:
Your obfuscation is so vivid to anyone reading that scripture. To hide the truth, you deliberately terminate the quote prior to verse 17.
17Then the seventy returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in Your name.”

ie. The command to cast out demons was given to more than the apostles.

No sir, you are incorrect again. It just did not seem to be relevant to the point of our discussion.

Listen brother.....why don't you just do what you want to do and just keep the Bible closed. Obviously you are going to do that any way so why play the game of religion.

I am going to say what I have already said and it is that I in 50 years of ministry, traveling to many parts of the world on missionary trips, have never seen a person who, without a doubt, was demon possessed.

I have on the other hand have seen many mentally disturbed people and several people with seizures and some with epilepsy.

NBB · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
No sir, you are incorrect again. It just did not seem to be relevant to the point of our discussion.

Listen brother.....why don't you just do what you want to do and just keep the Bible closed. Obviously you are going to do that any way so why play the game of religion.

I am going to say what I have already said and it is that I in 50 years of ministry, traveling to many parts of the world on missionary trips, have never seen a person who, without a doubt, was demon possessed.

I have on the other hand have seen many mentally disturbed people and several people with seizures and some with epilepsy.

You have your interpretation of the bible, i have another interpretation of the bible.... and i have experienced this also. How are you so sure you are not mistaken in your interpretation? don't despise the experience of others because the bible is written by witnesses of their experiences with God.

This signs will follow those who believe... etc.

Also you said this was for the eleven only, and Francis is right when he said the 70 also had this, so you changed your mind and now you include the 70 too?

Major1 · Dec 19, 2020

NBB said:
There is a 'cloud of witnesses' about being delivered from the devil with deliverance, so what if he told you about names etc? its the same....

Names, places, times and etc. tend to validate a claim.

If that is not the case then I can say that I have seen Jesus Christ face to face last December 25th.

Forget the Bible says that we can not look upon God.....I am telling you I saw Jesus Christ.

If I do not produce validation of my claim then what in fact is my claim?

An exaggeration???
A Story????
A Lie????

All of the above.

Just to prove a point......do you realize that, that is the reason why there are 4 Gospel accounts???

There is proof and validity in the witness of TWO!

Anyone can claim anything and unless it is validated it is nothin but a claim.

Just to place this in the realm of truth, not one single CLAIM of faith healing by Benny Hinn has been medically validated. Investigative news reports by programs such as Inside Edition, Dateline NBC, the Australian edition of 60 Minutes, and several network affiliates in the United States have called these claims into question -- never once to date has Benny Hinn produced one single record of a medically verified healing.

IMHO.....BRAGGING about casting out of demons falls into that same area of questionability of truth.

NBB · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
Names, places, times and etc. tend to validate a claim.

If that is not the case then I can say that I have seen Jesus Christ face to face last December 25th.

Forget the Bible says that we can not look upon God.....I am telling you I saw Jesus Christ.

If I do not produce validation of my claim then what in fact is my claim?

An exaggeration???
A Story????
A Lie????

All of the above.

Just to prove a point......do you realize that, that is the reason why there are 4 Gospel accounts???

There is proof and validity in the witness of TWO!

Anyone can claim anything and unless it is validated it is nothin but a claim.

Just to place this in the realm of truth, not one single CLAIM of faith healing by Benny Hinn has been medically validated. Investigative news reports by programs such as Inside Edition, Dateline NBC, the Australian edition of 60 Minutes, and several network affiliates in the United States have called these claims into question -- never once to date has Benny Hinn produced one single record of a medically verified healing.

IMHO.....BRAGGING about casting out of demons falls into that same area of questionability of truth.

Nobody is bragging of casting demons, this is 'normal' stuff for some,
but about witnesses accounts, just investigate a little on the internet about deliverance.

I tell you i am not lying when i said i had intrusive thoughts and detected an evil spriit with the help of God, never had those thoughts again, and other spiritual problems related to evil spirits.
why i would lie? what i would gain? fame on an internet board about me being a 'demon expulser' or something? just stop. Actually i'm trying to HELP. And there is thousands of people who would tell you the same about deliverance.

Major1 · Dec 19, 2020

NBB said:
You have your interpretation of the bible, i have another interpretation of the bible.... and i have experienced this also. How are you so sure you are not mistaken in your interpretation? don't despise the experience of others because the bible is written by witnesses of their experiences with God.

This signs will follow those who believe... etc.

Also you said this was for the eleven only, and Francis is right when he said the 70 also had this, so you changed your mind and now you include the 70 too?

How????

Because I read the actual Scriptures. YOU are 100% free to reject every single word I say.

However I did not have any imput to Mark 16:14-18.........Jesus Christ, God Himself said=
"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Where in those Scriptures is your name? Are one one of the ELEVEN who stood in front of God???

The ELEVEN are the only ones mentioned and THEY were given the SIGN GIFTS.

Now to think that verse # 17 applies you is grammatically impossible. In the Greek language, the "Antecedent" of the word THEM in verse #17 is the ELEVEN in verse #14.

THEM are the ELEVEN and you and I are not included and by the way, I wish to God I was included, but we are not and it is impossible to make it acceptable.

YOU can believe you have the gift of tongues but in my opinion it is just a faked noise of unintelligible syllables.

Yes.....I know that angers most people and I am sure it does to you as well. But that my friend is what Bible study is all about. Learning what the truth of God's Word actually is.

Feel free to ignore any and all I say. You have nothing to worry about from me.

NBB · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
How????

Because I read the actual Scriptures. YOU are 100% free to reject every single word I say.

However I did not have any imput to Mark 16:14-18.........Jesus Christ, God Himself said=
"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Where in those Scriptures is your name? Are one one of the ELEVEN who stood in front of God???

The ELEVEN are the only ones mentioned and THEY were given the SIGN GIFTS.

Now to think that verse # 17 applies you is grammatically impossible. In the Greek language, the "Antecedent" of the word THEM in verse #17 is the ELEVEN in verse #14.

THEM are the ELEVEN and you and I are not included and by the way, I wish to God I was included, but we are not and it is impossible to make it acceptable.

YOU can believe you have the gift of tongues but in my opinion it is just a faked noise of unintelligible syllables.

Yes.....I know that angers most people and I am sure it does to you as well. But that my friend is what Bible study is all about. Learning what the truth of God's Word actually is.

Feel free to ignore any and all I say. You have nothing to worry about from me.

But as you were shown the 70 expulsed demons too...

Major1 · Dec 19, 2020

NBB said:
Nobody is bragging of casting demons, this is 'normal' stuff for some,
but about witnesses accounts, just investigate a little on the internet about deliverance.

I tell you i am not lying when i said i had intrusive thoughts and detected an evil spriit with the help of God, never had those thoughts again, and other spiritual problems related to evil spirits.
why i would lie? what i would gain? fame on an internet board about me being a 'demon expulser' or something? just stop. Actually i'm trying to HELP. And there is thousands of people who would tell you the same about deliverance.

My dear friend.....every single living person has had intrusive thoughts coming from somewhere. BUT........that is a long way from being demon possessed!

IN fact, it is impossible for a Christian to be demon possessed. Opressed....absolutely!!
Possessed.....IMPOSSIBLE!

Major1 · Dec 19, 2020

NBB said:
But as you were shown the 70 expulsed demons too...

Of course they did. The Scriptures say that they were personally commissioned by the Lord Jesus Christ to do so.

However.....they were not given the SIGN GIFTS recorded in Mark 16.

Two different events from two different groups for two different reasons.

There mission was to “Tell them: ‘The Kingdom of God has come near to you.’”—Luke 10:5-9.

The mission of the Apostles was to establish the Church of God and to wtite the New Test.

NBB · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
Of course they did. The Scriptures say that they were personally commissioned by the Lord Jesus Christ to do so.

However.....they were not given the SIGN GIFTS recorded in Mark 16.

Two different events from two different groups for two different reasons.

But your whole point was we cannot get this things because they were given to the 11 only.
1 of the things at least about casting demons was given to more people.
Also the letters mention speaking in tongues teaching it to the church, so it was not for the eleven only, what the point in teaching that the whole church should not speak in tongues at once, if only the eleven could do it.

NBB · Dec 19, 2020

Major1 said:
My dear friend.....every single living person has had intrusive thoughts coming from somewhere. BUT........that is a long way from being demon possessed!

IN fact, it is impossible for a Christian to be demon possessed. Opressed....absolutely!!
Possessed.....IMPOSSIBLE!

Except this kind of intrusive thought ocd like is like a hammering in your head that not leaves you in peace.

Francis Drake · Dec 20, 2020

Major1 said:
Listen brother.....why don't you just do what you want to do and just keep the Bible closed. Obviously you are going to do that any way so why play the game of religion.

Maybe you should try opening your bible instead of lecturing me.

I am going to say what I have already said and it is that I in 50 years of ministry, traveling to many parts of the world on missionary trips, have never seen a person who, without a doubt, was demon possessed.

As Jesus taught, unbelief always brings blindness and deafness. So no surprises you've never seen such people.

I have on the other hand have seen many mentally disturbed people and several people with seizures and some with epilepsy.

And what did Jesus do with such people? He cast the demons out!

Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

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