Do Whatever They Tell You...

I wasn't going to answer this post , but I wanted to say this:

Studyman said:

Again, to be honest here, I posted the Word's of the Christ Himself, who said you "wouldn't be persuaded" and His Reason's why you would not be persuaded, even if ONE rose from the dead. It wasn't me who was "Attacking you" but the Word's of the very Christ you claim to serve.

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That wasn't at all clear.
I made a statement about obeying certain words if you could show me that Jesus said them. You said "no you wouldn't."
It wasn't obvious to me that you were quoting the verse "they will not believe even if someone were to be raised from the dead."
If Jesus said "I command Gentiles who believe in, and wish to follow me, to obey the laws in Leviticus", then all you have to do is show me the verse. I would then obey, and to suggest otherwise is flaming.

I DO serve Jesus, thanks very much.

Studyman said:

As mentioned above, you don't believe this Christ's Words pertain to you, even though you openly and brazenly almost brag about your unbelief in Moses and the Prophets God sent.

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Nope.
I do believe Christ's words apply to me.
I do not accept the view that Gentiles have to keep the law - ALL of it; even the hygiene laws in Leviticus. Big difference.

If you obey the law, stop bearing false witness. I do not brag about my unbelief in Moses and the prophets.
I have said that Moses and the prophets testify to Christ. I have said that Moses was an amazing man and I have learnt through him. I also happen to admire him and the prophets of God.

Studyman said:

It is quite ironic that you would accuse me of "attacking you" for showing you the Word's of Christ?

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But you haven't.
I asked you to show me where Christ commanded Gentiles keep the Levitical laws, and you couldn't.

I'm unsubscribing so that I don't have to read any further false claims about me.

Carl Emerson said:

Let the readers decide...

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Truth is truth...I don't write for "readers"...
Carl, if I offended you, please forgive me. You say you are not "under the law", please explain what you mean by this. You say "love". Yes, I agree, however, as I have said before, does it show you love God if you worship idols? Love your neighbor if you murder him? Paul says "obedience"...obedience to WHAT? Sin is the transgression of the law of God. The wages of sin is death. Yeshua kept it and taught it, and the Spirit must uphold it or as I said, a house divided will and can not stand...that was my point. We are not "under the law" because we try to KEEP it. We do not murder, steal, worship idols, etc. Since we try to keep it, we are not under its condemnation (curse) because we have grace to cover it when we do break it. There is either law or lawlessness. Yeshua did the Will of His Father.

You wrote:
The conclusion I have is that I am not under the Law but I am a slave to Righteousness. His Love in our hearts is now the motivation to righteousness not the Law. This is clear from the opening verses of 1 Cor 13.

Rom 7:
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

HARK! said:

If Jesus said "I command Gentiles who believe in, and wish to follow me, to obey _______ ."

Fill in the blank. Any verse will do.

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??

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Truth is truth...I don't write for "readers"...
Carl, if I offended you, please forgive me. You say you are not "under the law", please explain what you mean by this. You say "love". Yes, I agree, however, as I have said before, does it show you love God if you worship idols? Love your neighbor if you murder him? Paul says "obedience"...obedience to WHAT? Sin is the transgression of the law of God. The wages of sin is death. Yeshua kept it and taught it, and the Spirit must uphold it or as I said, a house divided will and can not stand...that was my point. We are not "under the law" because we try to KEEP it. We do not murder, steal, worship idols, etc. Since we try to keep it, we are not under its condemnation (curse) because we have grace to cover it when we do break it. There is either law or lawlessness. Yeshua did the Will of His Father.

You wrote:
The conclusion I have is that I am not under the Law but I am a slave to Righteousness. His Love in our hearts is now the motivation to righteousness not the Law. This is clear from the opening verses of 1 Cor 13.

Rom 7:
15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

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It's not very complicated. The law is external: a set of rules that we are to follow. The Spirit is internal: He will guide us to do what is right according to God. If you don't have the Spirit of God it is impossible to obey the law.

pescador said:

It's not very complicated. The law is external: a set of rules that we are to follow. The Spirit is internal: He will guide us to do what is right according to God. If you don't have the Spirit of God it is impossible to obey the law.

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You are correct, it is not very complicated! The NC is the law in our heart, correct (Jeremiah)?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

You are correct, it is not very complicated! The NC is the law in our heart, correct (Jeremiah)?

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Yes! That is correct!

pescador said:

Yes! That is correct!

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Ahhh.... but it doesn't end there...

The expectation is that the law in your heart will require you to obey command 4 !!!

Therefore if you are not worshiping on the Sabbath (Saturday) you cant be a true believer...

Carl Emerson said:

Ahhh.... but it doesn't end there...

The expectation is that the law in your heart will require you to obey command 4 !!!

Therefore if you are not worshiping on the Sabbath (Saturday) you cant be a true believer...

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I don't understand your post. Command 4 is part of the Ten Commandments; the law that is the basis of the Old Covenant. Then he [Jesus] said to them, “The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath." And He did "work" such as healing on the Sabbath, over the objection of the legalist Pharisees. Apparently Jesus didn't require anyone to obey commandment 4.

He understood the difference between the requirements of the Law and the leading of the Holy Spirit. If He, being God, and his disciples "violated" the law, why shouldn't we who are dead to the Law but alive to God do the same. "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4

pescador said:

I don't understand your post. Command 4 is part of the Ten Commandments; the law that is the basis of the Old Covenant. Then he [Jesus] said to them, “The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath." And He did "work" such as healing on the Sabbath, over the objection of the legalist Pharisees. Apparently Jesus didn't require anyone to obey commandment 4.

He understood the difference between the requirements of the Law and the leading of the Holy Spirit. If He, being God, and his disciples "violated" the law, why shouldn't we who are dead to the Law but alive to God do the same. "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4

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Yes I totally agree, combined with the invitation to enter His Sabbath Rest permanently.

However, posters on this thread insist that Saturday worship is a sign of a true believer keeping the law.

pescador said:

I don't understand your post. Command 4 is part of the Ten Commandments; the law that is the basis of the Old Covenant. Then he [Jesus] said to them, “The Sabbath was made for people, not people for the Sabbath." And He did "work" such as healing on the Sabbath, over the objection of the legalist Pharisees. Apparently Jesus didn't require anyone to obey commandment 4.

He understood the difference between the requirements of the Law and the leading of the Holy Spirit. If He, being God, and his disciples "violated" the law, why shouldn't we who are dead to the Law but alive to God do the same. "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God." Romans 7:4

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He NEVER violated the Law. There is no prohibition regarding doing good works on the Sabbath...

Carl Emerson said:

Yes I totally agree, combined with the invitation to enter His Sabbath Rest permanently.

However, posters on this thread insist that Saturday worship is a sign of a true believer keeping the law.

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So, they're Jews? Just kidding, though they might just as well be. Nothin' like the Law to keep you separated from Christ.

Strong in Him said:

The New Covenant was prophesied through Jeremiah, Jeremiah 31:31-34, where God said that he would put his word in people's hearts, that they would be able to know him and that he would forgive their sin and remember their wickedness no more.
Jesus fulfilled that covenant when he was born as a human and lived among us to show, and teach, us what God is like. He sealed the Covenant with his blood when he went to the cross, offering his life as a sacrifice for our sins. And after the ascension he sent his Spirit to live in us.
It IS possible for everyone to know God, from the greatest to the least; we can all have the Word of life in our hearts, and through Jesus we have been reconciled to God.

Now maybe you can show me where Jesus taught that the food and hygiene laws in Leviticus are important for salvation and/or need to be kept by Gentile followers?

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No. That's not what the New Covenant says. You misquoted it. The New Covenant is as follows:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:*n7
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

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Paul quotes it in the NT.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

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Paul also paraphrases the New Covenant elsewhere.

2Corinthians 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glorywas to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

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Paul is saying that epistle of Christ is to be written, not on tables of stone, but upon the fleshy tables of the heart. That's exactly what Christ said in the OT through Jeremiah. And Paul then says that the ministration of the OC was glorious as Moses' face would have such a shine that the Israelites couldn't stand to even look at his face. And if the OC was that glorious just how glorious would the law of God be when written in the hearts of all His followers? God's glory is His character. Who He is. And when the reflection of God is seen in the hearts of every one of His people the glory of the goodness and righteousness of God would be far more than the OC. Just think about what Paul is saying. God's followers would have the very light of God's goodness in their lives. That will make Christianity shine as God's people had never shone before. They will be the light of the city on the hill that cannot be hidden. Why? Because they will show the very glory of God's character.

The only reason we do not now have this glory is because we do not believe that God can literally do this for us by faith. Jesus told us in the healing of the two blind men that it would be done unto us according to our faith. So, we do not reflect God's character because we believe not. Righteousness is by faith. There is no other way to attain it.

HARK! said:

That's because they talked the talk; but they didn't walk the walk.

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As sectarians in Judaism, they went beyond the
authority of their office as Judges in the seat of Moses.

HARK! said:

That's why he said do as they say (the talk) ; but don't do as they do (walk in disobedience).

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What was ruled from the Sanhedrin was established law to all Jews, and was without dispute. It did not include sectarian notions and practice.

HARK! said:

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

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There were three prominent sects in Judaism at the time. Two were ruling sects. The Sadducees, the sect with the high priest see Acts 5:17. And the Pharisees as the sect which were of the judges over the people. Nothing came from the seat of Moses without both sects agreeing together. So there was nothing sectarian in what came from this seat
But each as "sects" had disputes with each other in doctrine and practice.

Mt 16:11 How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees?
Mt 16:12 Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.