The Corinthians and Galatians Worshiped on Sunday

Dale said:

How do we know that the Corinthians and the Galatians worshiped on Sunday? Paul plainly tells us. Paul encouraged the churches in both areas to send a contribution to the church in Jerusalem. Everyone was to give as they were able. When? The money is to be set aside on "the first day of every week," in other words, at weekly worship on Sunday.

Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told
the Galatian churches to do.
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set
aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it
up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the
men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany
me.
I Corinthians 16:1-4 NIV

Young's Literal Translation makes it even clearer that this coming together on Sunday is not a fluke or a special meeting. It is done every week. It is the normal day of worship.

1 And concerning the collection that [is] for the saints, as I
directed to the assemblies of Galatia, so also ye—do ye; 2 on
every first [day] of the week, let each one of you lay by him,
treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I
may come then collections may not be made; 3 and
whenever I may come, whomsoever ye may approve,
through letters, these I will send to carry your favour to
Jerusalem; 4 and if it be meet for me also to go, with me they
shall go.
I Corinthians 16:1-4 YLT

Every first day of the week means every Sunday.

The Seventh Day Adventists have a convoluted explanation of this passage. To them, the order to set aside money on Sunday, means that on Sunday, when you are in your home, you put the money you mean to give in a jar. Six days later, when you go to church on Saturday, you take the jar, or at least you take the money and put in the pot, the basket, or whatever is used for collection. This take on the passage is enormously strained and pointless. What is to be gained by letting money sit in a jar for six days before taking it to church?

It makes a lot more sense to believe that Paul said to set the money aside, meaning put it in the pot, on Sunday because that is when the Corinthians and the Galatians met for worship.

The day of worship wasn't "changed" to Sunday hundreds of years after the Apostles, it was changed by the Apostles. Early Christians worshiped on Saturday when they were able to worship with Jews, because the Jews went to Synagogue on Saturday. That gave Christians an opportunity to share their belief in Jesus as the Messiah. When it became impossible for Christians to worship with Jews at the Synagogue, that compromise was no longer helpful.

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According to God's Word (not mine), Gods people after the death and resurrection of JESUS worshiped God EVERY DAY as well as keeping God's Sabbath according to the 10 commandments...

Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47 [46], And THEY, CONTINUING DAILY WITH ONE ACCORD IN THE TEMPLE, AND BREAKING BREAD FROM HOUSE TO HOUSE, DID EAT THEIR MEAT WITH GLADNESS AND SINGLENESS OF HEART,[47], Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

As well as meeting together daily and breaking bread they also kept God's seventh day Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments according to the scriptures *Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10)

Now we know that God's people meeting daily with one accord does not make every day a Holy day the same as there is not a single scripture that says God's Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a Holy day.

So please tell us dear friend, where does it say in the scriptures you have provided above to support your tradition of Sunday worship that God's Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?

You have no scripture to support your tradition now do you? This is all we are pointing out here. Of course you are free to believe as you wish. For me though only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9; Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Something to pray about.

Dale said:

LGW: "Gods people after the death and resurrection of JESUS worshiped God EVERY DAY ..."

The Apostles did so. That doesn't explain why Paul told the Corinthians and the Galatians to take up an offering for the church in Jerusalem on Sunday, the first day of the week. How do you explain that? Paul says there is something special about Sunday.

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I think you missed the point dear friend. As posted earlier, God's people met every day of the week including Sunday as shown in Acts 2:46-47 as well as keeping God's Sabbath commandment according to the scriptures *Acts 13:14; 13:27; 13:44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4; Revelation 1:10). The scripture you quoted does not tell us to keep Sunday as a Holy day and neither does it say that Gods' Sabbath commandment is abolished. So what have you got to support your man-made teaching and tradition? -Nothing.

..............

Now, let's look in detail at the single scripture you have provided in your OP you claim supports the tradition of Sunday worship, so there is no hiding from the scriptures and the questions asked of you. I will put up a few parallel scripture translations of 1 Corinthians 16:2 as there is a lot of reasoning here to help us to understand why Paul gives the command to lay aside our offerings and we will look at the context and the Greek.

Firstly lets look at 1 Corinthians 16:1-5 collectively...

1 Corinthians 16:1-5 [1], NOW CONCERNING THE COLLECTION FOR THE SAINTS, AS I HAVE GIVEN ORDER TO THE CHURCHES OF GALATIA, EVEN SO DO YOU. [2], ON THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK LET EVERY ONE OF YOU LAY BY HIM IN STORE, AS GOD HAS PROSPERED HIM, THAT THERE BE NO GATHERINGS WHEN I COME. [3], And when I come, whomsoever you shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring YOUR LIBERALITY TO JERUSALEM. [4], And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me. [5], NOW I WILL COME TO YOU, WHEN I SHALL PASS THROUGH MACEDONIA: FOR I DO PASS THROUGH MACEDONIA.

Note: So the chapter context is "concerning the collection of the saints" Paul is giving the same orders as he gave those in Galatia (v1). On the first day of the week (Sunday) let everyone lay by himself in store as God has prospered because or the reason being for this order that there be no money collections when Paul arrives (v2). The reason was that Paul was passing through on His way to Jerusalem (v3-4)

PARALLEL TRANSLATIONS OF 1 CORINTHIANS 16:2

New American Standard Bible
On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper, so that no collections be made when I come.

New King James Version
On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

King James Bible
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
On every Sunday, let each person of you lay aside in his house and keep that which he can, so that when I come there will be no collections.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Every Sunday each of you should set aside some of your money and save it. Then money won't have to be collected when I come.

New American Standard 1977
On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

King James 2000 Bible
Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

American King James Version
On the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God has prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

American Standard Version
Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Douay-Rheims Bible
On the first day of the week let every one of you put apart with himself, laying up what it shall well please him; that when I come, the collections be not then to be made.

Darby Bible Translation
On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.

English Revised Version
Upon the first day of the week let each one of you lay by him in store, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come.

Young's Literal Translation
on every first day of the week, let each one of you lay by him, treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I may come then collections may not be made

............

These two are representative of the majority of translations and also the Greek...

King James Bible
Upon the {1}. first day of the week let every one of you {2}. lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, {3}. that there be no gatherings when I come.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
{1}. On every Sunday, let each person of you {2}. lay aside in his house and keep that which he can, {3}. so that when I come there will be no collections.

The sections of 1 Corinthians 16:2 are broken down into context order within the scripture for discussion here as marked above in the last two parallel scripture examples above.

So the command given by Paul for the collection of the saints here is that {1} on the first day of the week (every Sunday) let every person {2} lay by him in store - The Greek being παρ ̓ ἑαυτῷ τιθέτω θησαυρίζων par' heautō tithetō thēsaurizōn. Meaning let him lay up at home (by himself), treasuring up as he has been prospered. The Greek phrase, "by himself," means, the same as at home. Let him set it apart by himself at home; let him designate a certain portion; let him do this by himself, when he is at home. Let him set it aside and put it in store, separate it and save it up, as God hath prospered him - The word "God" is not in the original, but it is evidently understood, and necessary to the sense. The word rendered "hath prospered" (εὐοδῶται euodōtai)

Now note the reason here for this command within the scripture is given in the same verse in the last section of the scripture {3} That there be no gatherings when I come - No collections λογίαι logiai, 1 Corinthians 16:1). The apostle means that there should be no trouble in collecting the small sums; that it should all be prepared; that each one might have laid by what he could give; and that all might be ready to be handed over to him, or to whomsoever they might choose to send with it to Jerusalem.

................

CONCLUSION: As shown in the context of 1 Corinthians 16:1-5 and in the within scripture context, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 was a command given by Paul for the collection of the saints that every man was to put aside money as God had prospered him at home by himself on the first day of the week (Sunday). It was not a Church gathering it was a command to put money aside at home or alone so that when Paul was passing through he could collect all the money on his way to Jerusalem. There is absolutely - nothing, in these scriptures that says Sunday is a Holy day or that God's 4th commandment Sabbath has been abolished is there? So what have you got here? - Nothing!

Dale said:

There is no scripture for Christians keeping the Jewish sabbath. Remember all the negative things Paul said about works of Jewish ritual, works of the Law?

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There is no such thing as a Jewish Sabbath. JESUS says that he made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27 and that he is the creator of it in Mark 2:28. The Sabbath was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week in Genesis 2:1-3. There was no JEW and no GENTILE when God made the Sabbath for man *Mark 2:27 only Adam and Eve that were created on the 6th day of the creation week as shown in Genesis 1:26-30.

What laws are you talking about? Not the 10 commandments. Paul says these are Holy, Just and Good *Romans 7:12. The purpose of Gods law in the new covenant is to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. They do not make anyone perfect and we cannot get God's salvation through trying to keep them Romans 2 and Romans 3:1-20.

God’s eternal law (10 commandments) shows us that we are all sinners in need of a savior and they lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. If we have repented from our sins and confessed them to Jesus he is faithful and just to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness * Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15; 6:2; Luke 13:3-5; Proverbs 28:9-13; Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:9-13 and are no longer “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of breaking the law {sin} *Romans 8:1-4.

However, if we are continuing in known unrepentant sin then we are still “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of sin *Romans 3:19-20 and need to seek him in repentance, confession of our sins while having faith in his WORD *John 3:15-21; 1 John 1:9; Acts of the Apostles 2:38; 3:19.

Dale said:

LGW: "... there is not a single scripture that says God's Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments is abolished ..."
Not exactly true. Perhaps you don't understand what it meant in the first place.

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Absolutely true! There is not a single scripture that says God's Sabbath commandment of the 10 commandments is abolished. If you disagree please post me a single scripture that says God's Sabbath commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday or the first day of the week as a Holy day? Please don't make things up dear friend you either have scripture or you do not. You do not and if you do not all you have is a teaching and tradition of men that break the commandments of God that JESUS warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9.

Dale said:

LGW: "You have no scripture to support your traditions do you dear friend?"
Don't be insulting. I quoted two translations of a passage in the OP.

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As shown above there is nothing that you have posted in the single scripture you have provided that says that Gods Sabbath commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. So what have you got dear friend? - Nothing. Something to pray about.

[STAFF EDITED]

Dale said:

There is no scripture for Christians keeping the Jewish sabbath. Remember all the negative things Paul said about works of Jewish ritual, works of the Law?

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There is so much that is non-Biblical about this statement. Please consider.

Lev. 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

The Sabbath of the Bible is not a "Jewish" Sabbath, at least not according to the Christ of the Bible. The Sabbath of the Bible, is the Christ's, the Word of God which became Flesh.

And He confirms this Himself, after HE became a Man in the Person of Jesus.

Matt. 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

In the attempt to find Biblical Truth, shall we not also include the Word's of the Lord, and of the Lord's Christ? When we do, we find that The Sabbath of the Christ of the Bible is not a Jewish ritual, but a Feast of the Christ Himself. Shall we "omit" these Holy Words to promote some religious philosophy of man?

As for Paul speaking negatively regarding the "works of the Law" for justification. I would kindly ask you to answer this question, which was the reason for your OP, Yes? To examine scriptures to reveal the Truth about God?

So the question is; What were the "works of the Law" of Moses that was required in order for sins to be forgiven, or Justification as Paul calls it?

Did Moses say "If a man sins, he shall keep the Sabbath Day Holy and his sin is forgiven"? Did Moses say "if a man sins, he shall love his neighbor as himself and his sins are forgiven?

Or did God direct Moses to say "if a man sins, he shall take a bull or Lamb exclusively to the Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial, ceremonial "works", and then his sin is forgiven?

Lev. 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Didn't Paul believe "all" that was written in the Law and Prophets?

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Didn't this same God promise of a time "After those days" when HE, Himself would forgive our sins, as opposed to the Levite Priest and the "Works of the Law" of the Levitical Priesthood?

So then, if Paul believed Jesus was the One, and he believed all that is written in the OT, then he would of course speak negatively of the "Works of the Law" the Jews were still promoting for atonement/justification.

So what were Paul's actual words about God's Law which defined sin, including HIS Holy Sabbaths?

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Shall we not consider "Every Word which Proceeds from the mouth of God", when we Seek His Kingdom and His Righteousness?

Dale said:

How do we know that the Corinthians and the Galatians worshiped on Sunday?

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That is a good question since no text in Galatians or anywhere else says it.

Dale said:

Paul plainly tells us. Paul encouraged the churches in both areas to send a contribution to the church in Jerusalem.

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True.. but sending money and saving money ... are not the same thing as "worship service on Sunday".

Paul said that at the first of each week each person was to lay up in store by himself alone - setting something aside for the cause.

If what Paul "really" meant to say was "each week-day-1 we meet to celebrate the resurrection of Christ and celebrate the communion service, so now we just call week-day-1 the Lord's Day" -- then "save some money at the first of each week" was not the way to say that..

Dale said:

It makes a lot more sense to believe that Paul said to set the money aside, meaning put it in the pot

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nope.


1Cor 16 NASB
2On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save, as he may prosper,



Robertson –

Lay by him in store (par' eautwi titetw thsaurizwn).
By himself, in his home. Treasuring it (cf. Matthew 6:19. for thsaurizw). Have the habit of doing it, titetw (present imperative).



Wycliffe New Testament (WYC)
2 one day of the week. Each of you keep at himself [Each of you keep, or lay up, at himself], keeping that that pleaseth to him(self), that when I come, the gatherings be not made.


KJV
2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.


Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
2 On the first day of the week, each of you is to set something aside and save to the extent that he prospers, so that no collections will need to be made when I come.


Amplified Bible (AMP)
2On the first [day] of each week, let each one of you [personally] put aside something and save it up as he has prospered [in proportion to what he is given], so that no collections will need to be taken after I come.


Darby Translation (DARBY)
2On [the] first of [the] week let each of you put by at home, laying up [in] whatever [degree] he may have prospered, that there may be no collections when I come.

Dale said:

The Seventh Day Adventists have a convoluted explanation of this passage.

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Dismissing all those non-SDA sources as merely "bad SDA ideas" is not the compelling argument you appear to suppose that it is.

Studyman said:

There is so much that is non-Biblical about this statement. Please consider.

Lev. 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

The Sabbath of the Bible is not a "Jewish" Sabbath, at least not according to the Christ of the Bible. The Sabbath of the Bible, is the Christ's, the Word of God which became Flesh.

And He confirms this Himself, after HE became a Man in the Person of Jesus.

Matt. 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

In the attempt to find Biblical Truth, shall we not also include the Word's of the Lord, and of the Lord's Christ? When we do, we find that The Sabbath of the Christ of the Bible is not a Jewish ritual, but a Feast of the Christ Himself. Shall we "omit" these Holy Words to promote some religious philosophy of man?

As for Paul speaking negatively regarding the "works of the Law" for justification. I would kindly ask you to answer this question, which was the reason for your OP, Yes? To examine scriptures to reveal the Truth about God?

So the question is; What were the "works of the Law" of Moses that was required in order for sins to be forgiven, or Justification as Paul calls it?

Did Moses say "If a man sins, he shall keep the Sabbath Day Holy and his sin is forgiven"? Did Moses say "if a man sins, he shall love his neighbor as himself and his sins are forgiven?

Or did God direct Moses to say "if a man sins, he shall take a bull or Lamb exclusively to the Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial, ceremonial "works", and then his sin is forgiven?

Lev. 4:35 And he shall take away all the fat thereof, as the fat of the lamb is taken away from the sacrifice of the peace offerings; and the priest shall burn them upon the altar, according to the offerings made by fire unto the LORD: and the priest shall make an atonement for his sin that he hath committed, and it shall be forgiven him.

Rom. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Didn't Paul believe "all" that was written in the Law and Prophets?

Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Didn't this same God promise of a time "After those days" when HE, Himself would forgive our sins, as opposed to the Levite Priest and the "Works of the Law" of the Levitical Priesthood?

So then, if Paul believed Jesus was the One, and he believed all that is written in the OT, then he would of course speak negatively of the "Works of the Law" the Jews were still promoting for atonement/justification.

So what were Paul's actual words about God's Law which defined sin, including HIS Holy Sabbaths?

Rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Shall we not consider "Every Word which Proceeds from the mouth of God", when we Seek His Kingdom and His Righteousness?

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amen!

As the Sabbath says

"the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10
"Sabbath... the Holy Day of the LORD (YHWH)" Is 58:13

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In Acts 18:4 we find believing Jews AND gentiles coming together "every Sabbath" for more Gospel preaching. Nothing in the NT about "hey now that you accept the Gospel - join us tomorrow for our week-day-1 now-called-Lord's-Day memorial of the resurrection of Christ in praise and worship and more gospel preaching".

Nope not one text of that form to go with the "every Sabbath" and "Sabbath after Sabbath" texts about coming back for "more gospel preaching".

Dale said:

Studyman: << There is so much that is non-Biblical about this statement. Please consider.
Lev. 23:1 ...
The Sabbath of the Bible is not a "Jewish" Sabbath >>


The Jews certainly consider it to be a Jewish Sabbath and commentators have often referred to it that way. Your quote from Leviticus is irrelevant because there are no Christians in Leviticus. As I said, there is no command for Christians to keep the Jewish sabbath.

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The Jews thought a lot of things which are wrong as the Holy Scriptures clearly point out.. You are free to promote any religious philosophy you want. The Christ said the Sabbath of the Bible was His. You and some random Jewish Commentator preach God's Sabbath was only for the Jews. I'm sure you mean well. But I have been given a choice here. Do I believe in the Word's of the Christ of the Bible, or "your voice". I mean no offence, but I'm going with the Christ of the Bible here. The Sabbath of the Bible is the Christ's Sabbath as HE said, both as the Word of God, and as the Word of God which became Flesh.

This is a Biblical Fact, if one actually believes what is written, as Paul did.

Jesus said man shall live by Every Word that proceeds from the mouth of the God of the Bible. You say the Word's of God in Leviticus are irrelevant. Once again, I have a choice to make between accepting and believing your religious philosophy, or the Christ's own Words. I have been convinced the Word's of the God of the Bible are true, and the philosophy of man is what we should beware of.

Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

My understanding of the true definition of a "Christian" is a man who has Faith in God, AND His Son, the Lord's Christ for the forgiveness of Sins, that is, for the Transgression of God's Laws..

Hebrews 11 speaks of several "men of Faith" written for our examples. It is written they were also shown the Gospel of Christ, and received it with Faith, while others were shown the Gospel of Christ, and didn't mix Faith/belief with the hearing of the Christ's Gospel.

Heb. 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

I'm not sure where your preaching comes from that promotes the religious philosophy that Caleb wasn't a "Christian", or David, or Zacharias, or Simeon, or Anna, or the Wise men. But if a person reads what is written about them, it becomes clear that they all knew of the Christ, and several were waiting His arrival.

Ps. 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

And again;

Luke 2:25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

30 For mine eyes have seen thy salvation,

31 Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people;

32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

How you can preach or imply that these two men were not the very definition of a "Christian" is beyond me.

If you believe this understanding is "non-Biblical" please provide something more than your own words or religious philosophy as proof of your judgment, as I have in my replies to you.

BobRyan said:

amen!

As the Sabbath says

"the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)" Ex 20:10
"Sabbath... the Holy Day of the LORD (YHWH)" Is 58:13

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Amen, "For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. (YHWH) Matt. 12:8

Dale said:

Studyman: << So the question is; What were the "works of the Law" of Moses that was required in order for sins to be forgiven, or Justification as Paul calls it?
Did Moses say "If a man sins, he shall keep the Sabbath Day Holy and his sin is forgiven"? Did Moses say "if a man sins, he shall love his neighbor as himself and his sins are forgiven?
Or did God direct Moses to say "if a man sins, he shall take a bull or Lamb exclusively to the Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial, ceremonial "works", and then his sin is forgiven? >>


You see the Saturday sabbath as the key to personal holiness. I don't.

The OT sabbath commandment is labor law. You need to understand that.

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How is it a labor law to set aside one day a week to rest, the day God made holy from creation Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Resting and keeping holy the day God instructed, is not labor. It's the opposite.

God commanded us to keep holy his seventh-day Sabbath. Exodus 20:8-11 The day He asked, not the one changed by man. Jesus kept the Sabbath and the Sabbath will be kept on the new earth Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

The Bible is very clear on which day is God's holy day. He even warned us it would be changed:

Daniel 7:25 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws.

The 4th commandment is the only commandment that is both a law and a time. As predicted in the Bible, was changed by man. The good news is we have a choice- do we follow the traditions of man or what God has instructed for us as His weekly seventh day Sabbath.

God bless

Dale said:

Studyman: << So the question is; What were the "works of the Law" of Moses that was required in order for sins to be forgiven, or Justification as Paul calls it?
Did Moses say "If a man sins, he shall keep the Sabbath Day Holy and his sin is forgiven"? Did Moses say "if a man sins, he shall love his neighbor as himself and his sins are forgiven?
Or did God direct Moses to say "if a man sins, he shall take a bull or Lamb exclusively to the Levite Priest who would then perform sacrificial, ceremonial "works", and then his sin is forgiven? >>


You see the Saturday sabbath as the key to personal holiness. I don't.

The OT sabbath commandment is labor law. You need to understand that.

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Fascinating. You understand the question perfectly, yet you still refuse to answer it.

My post said;

Did Moses say "If a man sins, he shall keep the Sabbath Day Holy and his sin is forgiven"? Did Moses say "if a man sins, he shall love his neighbor as himself and his sins are forgiven?

So why did you accuse me of judging one of God's Law over the other?

It would be better, it seems, to follow a common courtesy of Love towards your neighbor of answering relevant questions from those who ask you, rather than refuse to answer the question, and choose instead to place baseless judgments against them.

As my post clearly showed, I do not give the Sabbath Commandment any more weight than the Command to love my neighbor as myself. Which I don't.

But you said that I do.

I believe a person who judges God's Law by choosing one as worthy of their honor and respect, while choosing another as not worthy of their honor and respect, are Judging God and His Word.

I did not Judge God or HIS Word in my post.

You proclaim my post represents the following.

"You see the Saturday sabbath as the key to personal holiness. I don't."

Please follow another basic courtesy of Love towards your neighbor by showing me in my post where I judged one of God's instruction over another?

And please consider something here. Why don't you read the post, and the Scriptures posted, as respond according to the actual Post. In this way there is an actual examination of Scripture, you may add something the person you are debating with didn't think of, or you may even see something you never saw before.

Isn't this the reason for the discussion in the first place, for our edification?

Dale said:

You see the Saturday sabbath as the key to personal holiness. I don't.

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Jesus says we know God by keeping His commandments.

1 John 2:3Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

What better way to get to know God than to dedicate one day a week, the day He requested to keep Holy. By keeping the 4th commandment Holy it allows you build your relationship with Him. I go to church on His Sabbath (when able due to COVID) watch sermons online, pray, talk to God, read the Bible and seek Him. Saturday is the Lords day Mathew 12:8 and there is no better way to get to know Him than keeping Holy His weekly Sabbath.

God bless

Dale said:

How do we know that the Corinthians and the Galatians worshiped on Sunday? Paul plainly tells us. Paul encouraged the churches in both areas to send a contribution to the church in Jerusalem. Everyone was to give as they were able. When? The money is to be set aside on "the first day of every week," in other words, at weekly worship on Sunday.

Now about the collection for God’s people: Do what I told
the Galatian churches to do.
On the first day of every week, each one of you should set
aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it
up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the
men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany
me.
I Corinthians 16:1-4 NIV

Young's Literal Translation makes it even clearer that this coming together on Sunday is not a fluke or a special meeting. It is done every week. It is the normal day of worship.

1 And concerning the collection that [is] for the saints, as I
directed to the assemblies of Galatia, so also ye—do ye; 2 on
every first [day] of the week, let each one of you lay by him,
treasuring up whatever he may have prospered, that when I
may come then collections may not be made; 3 and
whenever I may come, whomsoever ye may approve,
through letters, these I will send to carry your favour to
Jerusalem; 4 and if it be meet for me also to go, with me they
shall go.
I Corinthians 16:1-4 YLT

Every first day of the week means every Sunday.

The Seventh Day Adventists have a convoluted explanation of this passage. To them, the order to set aside money on Sunday, means that on Sunday, when you are in your home, you put the money you mean to give in a jar. Six days later, when you go to church on Saturday, you take the jar, or at least you take the money and put in the pot, the basket, or whatever is used for collection. This take on the passage is enormously strained and pointless. What is to be gained by letting money sit in a jar for six days before taking it to church?

It makes a lot more sense to believe that Paul said to set the money aside, meaning put it in the pot, on Sunday because that is when the Corinthians and the Galatians met for worship.

The day of worship wasn't "changed" to Sunday hundreds of years after the Apostles, it was changed by the Apostles. Early Christians worshiped on Saturday when they were able to worship with Jews, because the Jews went to Synagogue on Saturday. That gave Christians an opportunity to share their belief in Jesus as the Messiah. When it became impossible for Christians to worship with Jews at the Synagogue, that compromise was no longer helpful.

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If 1 Corinthians 16:1-4 was speaking about the start of a new tradition that you think we should continue to follow, then that means that you should be setting aside money for Jerusalem on the 1st day of each week. However, there is nothing that states that this was a something that continued after Paul came and carried their gift to Jerusalem. In Acts 2:46, it says that on every day they were attending the temple together and were breaking bread in their homes, so there is nothing about obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy that prohibits meeting or worshiping God on other days. However, 1 Corinthians 16:1-4 says nothing about it being a day of worship to honor the resurrection or about it being a day of worship that was in place obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy. In Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so the way to worship God does not involve disobeying His commands.

In the Bible, days started in the evening, so the 1st day of the week starts on Saturday evening at sundown. Jews have a longstanding tradition of meeting at the closing of the Sabbath on the 1st day of the week on Saturday at sundown for a Havdalah service to welcome in the work week. Jews do not traditionally handle money on the Sabbath, so this was also a time when they collected offerings, so collecting offerings on the 1st day of the week was not a departure from what they normally did. On the contrary, the fact that they were collecting offerings on the 1st day is evidence that they were continuing to keep the 7th day holy, while collecting offerings on the 7th day is what would be evidence that they had stopped keeping the 7th day holy.

So this passage does not establish that they had met on Sunday mornings, and even if they had, it does not establish that it was part of a day of worship, and even it if was, it does not establish that it was the start of a new tradition that continued after Paul carried their gift to Jerusalem, and even if it was, it does not establish that they hypocritically set aside God's command to keep the 7th day holy in order to establish their own tradition of having a day of worship on the 1st day, and even if they did, it does not establish that we should follow their example of sin.

Dale said:

We keep getting the question: When was the sabbath abolished?

The question contains some serious misconceptions. The real question is what requirements were placed on gentile Christians, on non-Jews joining the Christian Church. The answer is found in Acts 15, where there is a gathering of Apostles and disciples in Jerusalem to discuss that question. Observance of an Old Testament sabbath is not one of the requirements placed on non-Jewish Christians. Neither is there any command to obey the Ten Commandments.



With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and
elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch,
Syria and Cilicia: Greetings.
We have heard that some went out from us without our
authorisation and disturbed you, troubling your minds by
what they said.
So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you
with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul —
men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord
Jesus Christ.
Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word
of mouth what we are writing.
It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden
you with anything beyond the following requirements:
You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood,
from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual
immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell
Acts 15:23-29 NIV

In the KJV, the translation that Ellen White used, it comes out this way.

For it seemed good to the Holy
Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than
these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats
offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled,
and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye
shall do well. Fare ye well.
Acts 15:28-29 KJV


The sensible question is what were the requirements for non-Jewish Christians.
They were told to abstain from idolatry and to observe sexual morality.
They were not told to observe an Old Testament sabbath.

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Either those four listed laws are an exhaustive list of everything that would ever be required of a mature Gentile believers, or they are not, and the moment you try to make exceptions that other laws should be included is the moment that the list no longer holds any power to limit which laws Gentiles should follow. So that would exclude most of what Jesus taught, including the greatest two commandments. If you exclude the Ten Commandments, then you are saying that Gentiles are free to take God's name in vain, to break the Sabbath, to dishonor their parents, to commit murder, to steal, to bear false witness, and to covet.

It seems pretty clear to me that those four laws are not an exhaustive list of everything that would be required for mature Gentile believers (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), but rather as stated, it was a list intended not to make things too difficult for new believers coming to Christ, which they excused in Acts 15:21 by saying that they would continue to learn about Moses every Sabbath in the synagogues, which implies that they were already keeping the Sabbath holy in obedience to God's command. Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, he did not hypocritically preach something other than what he practiced, and the way to follow him is by following his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and by walking in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), not by refusing to follow what he taught by word and by example.

To use an analogy, when an employer hires a new employee, they don't want to overwhelm them by making them memorize everything that they will every need to know about how to do their job on day one, but rather they start with just the basics with the understanding that they will continue to learn the rest on the job. With many Gentiles coming out of paganism who were unfamiliar with Christianity, in order to avoid overwhelming them, it became important to get on the same page about which things needed to be taught right away and which things could be taught over time as they matured in their faith.