Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

1an said:

They had, and still do have, another god. John 8:44 tells you who their father god is.
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What does that have to do with them SEEEING the greatest miracles in history and still rejecting the God who gave them.

1an said:

Dear me. It would take a long time to go through all the error. I will simply say for starters that it takes millions of years for light from the stars to reach earth. When Abraham looked at the stars, the earth was already millions of years old.
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Take all the time you want to. I am also an "Old Earth" believer but that has nothing to do whatsoever with your thesis.

Has it dawned upon you that in the BILLION os years past, GOD HIMSELF could have been the light of the universe????

Then just as well as that, the sun was begun on the first day but not completed until the fourth. The idea behind this view is that God's creation was a process. Yes, I know that there is no Scripture to support that.

The Scofield Reference Bible says:

Neither here nor in verses 14-18 is an original creative act implied. A different word is used. The sense is, made to appear; made visible. The sun and the moon were created in the beginning. The light of course came from the sun, but the vapour diffused the light. Later the sun appeared in an unclouded sky (The Scofield Reference Bible, edited by C.I. Scofield, New York, Oxford University Press, 1909, p. 3, note 4).

Then....if you base your whole thesis on the absense of the Sun's light, then you need to explain the Bible fact thatthere will be light without the sun in the future New Jerusalem.

And there shall be no night there: They shall need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light. And they shall reign for ever and ever (Revelation 22:5).

The sun shall no longer be your light by day, nor for brightness the moon shall give light to you; but the Lord will be your everlasting light (Isaiah 60:19).

1an said:

God has deserted Israel in favour of the Gentiles
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You see......right there is the basis of our disagreements. You obviously have not done the Bible study required to make such assertions. Your erroneous comments such as this bring into question your other opinions.

GOD HAS NOT DESERTED ISRAEL.!!!!!

What you just said is called Replacement Theology and it is totally without merit and is not Biblical in any way.

Romans 11:1........
"I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin."

Romans 11:26........
"and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob."

Israel’s future is irrevocably bound up in the character of God. What you have failed to understand is that when you question the future of Israel in Gods plans, believing God to have abandoned his once “holy inheritance”, you are questioning the integrity of God Himself. You are in effect calling God a liar and exposing Him to public shame because God promised the children of Israel,

Deut. 31:6.........
“Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you”.

Francis Drake said:

Given the massive level of unbelief you've expressed in this thread, its no surprise that you are completely blind to demonic activity.

Oppressed/possessed.
This is a completely spurious argument, which is why I never use the word "possessed". The simple fact is that demons can indwell people, and that is demonstrated by the fact that they get cast OUT.

That just proves how little you understand the topic of demons. Anyone who does voodoo or any other witchcraft will always always always have demons in them. Where do you imagine their power comes from?

Dear oh dear, more christian mythology.
I have been casting demons out of people for over 40 years, and every single one was a bible believing, spirit filled Christian.

Maybe you should stop looking at Hollywood and start attending to the needs of the church.

I have lost count of the Christians whose lives have been turned around when they have been delivered from the demons controlling their lives. Many of these lovely believers have been struggling for decades under various demonic bondages, but just like we see Jesus did in the gospels, the evil spirits can be driven out of them by any faithful christian.

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Instead of making personal attacks I suggest that you actually READ the Bible and do the study needed to be a workman approved by God.

Your "opinions" of casting out demons makes me laugh and actually shows how little you really know about the Scriptures of Gods Word. I am always amazed at people such as yourself who hide behind a computer screen and make accusations and then bold statements that can never be verified.

I would say that if you ever came face to face with a real demon of Stan, you would drop dead in your tracks instead of bragging about having whipped one. That is really funny!!!!

Mark 3:14........
"He appointed twelve of them, whom He designated as apostles, to accompany Him, to be sent out to preach, 15and to have authority to drive out demons. 16These are the twelve He appointed".

You were not included in the TWELVE!

Matthew 7:22-23
"Many will say to me in that day, LORD, LORD, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

1an said:

We need a hope, but those false teachers who say the earth is only 10,000 years old when it takes millions of years for water to gouge out the Grand Canyon and only 300 million years for coal to form, are turning the Bible into a series of fairy stories. Nobody will believe it anymore. They are destroying Christianity from the foundation up. May I point the reader's attention to the top line of my signature.
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Hilarious!

YOU have supported the continuing of the Sign Gifts and the Miracles of God but now you say that God could not have done everything you just posted.

You just completely reversed your whole thesis.

My dear friend......you can not have it both ways!!!!!!!

Francis Drake said:

You are seriously mistaken if you believe that casting demons out was limited to the eleven!
History shows it was regularly done in the early church.

"EVIDENCES OF DELIVERANCE IN EARLY CHURCH HISTORY - Casting out demons or evil spirits was routinely practiced in the early church.

Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book II, 32:4 (190 A.D.) - "For some (Christians do certainly and truly drive out devils, so that those who have thus been cleansed from evil spirits frequently both believe and join themselves to the church." DELIVERANCE is also implied to be done by Christians in Book II, 31:2.

Justin Martyr, Second Apology, Ch. 8 (153 A.D.) - This apology was addressed to the Roman Senate. "And they (demons), having been shut up in eternal fire, shall suffer their just punishment and penalty. For if they are even now overthrown by men through the Name of Jesus Christ, this is an intimation of the punishment in eternal fire which is to be inflicted on themselves and those who serve them."

Second Apology, Ch. 6 - "And now you (Roman Senate) can learn this from what is under your own observation. For numberless demoniacs throughout the whole world, and in your city, many of our Christian men exorcising them in the Name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, have healed and do heal, rendering helpless and driving the demons out of men, though they could not be cured by all the other exorcists, and those who used incantations and drugs."

Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew, Ch. 30 (150 A.D.) - "For we call Him (Jesus) Helper and Redeemer, the power of whose name even the demons do fear; and at this day, when they are exorcised in the Name of Jesus Christ, they are overcome."

Dialogue With Trypho, Ch. 76 - "And now we, who believe on our Lord Jesus, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, when we exorcise all demons and evil spirits, have them subjected to us."

Dialogue With Trypho, Ch. 85 - "For every demon, when exorcised in the Name of this very Son of God...is overcome and subdued. But though you exorcise any demon in the name of any of those who were amongst you--either kings, righteous men, or prophets or patriarchs--it will not be subject to you. Now assuredly your (Jewish) exorcists, I have said, make use of this craft when they exorcise, even as the Gentiles do, and employ fumigations and incantations."

Tatian, Address of Tatian to the Greeks, Ch. 16 (160 A.D.) - "Sometimes they themselves (demons) disturb the habit of the body by a tempest of folly; but, being smitten by the Word of God, they depart in terror, and the sick man is healed."

Theophilus, Theophilus to Autolycus, Book II. 8 (160-180 A.D.) - Theophilus is refuting the false teachings of Homer and Hesiod who were famous Greek poets. "...And this clearly appears from the fact, that even to this day the demonized are sometimes exorcised in the Name of the living and true God and these spirits of error themselves confess that they are demons who also formerly inspired these writers (Homer and Hesiod)."

Tertullian, Apology, Ch. 23 (197 A.D.) - "Let a person be brought before your tribunals; who is plainly under demonic possession. The wicked spirit, BIDDEN TO SPEAK by a follower of Christ, will as readily make the truthful confession that he is a demon, as elsewhere he has falsely asserted that he is a god."

Tertullian, Apology, Ch. 37 - "Who would save you (Roman Rulers), I mean, from the attacks of those spirits of evil, which without reward or hire we (Christians) exorcise?"

Tertullian, To Scapula, Ch. 4 - "The clerk of one of the courts who was liable to be thrown upon the ground by an evil spirit, was set free from his affliction (by Christians); as was also the relative of another, and the little boy of a third. How many men of rank (to say nothing of common people) have been DELIVERED from demons, and healed of diseases?"

Minucius Felix, The Octavious of Minucius Felix (210 A.D.) - "A great many, even some of your own people, know all those things that the demons themselves confess concerning themselves, as often as they are driven by us (Christians) from bodies by the torments of our words and by the fires of our prayer." (The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. IV, p. 190).

Origen, Against Celsus, Book I, 46 (230-254) A.D.) - "And there are still preserved among Christians traces of that Holy Spirit which appeared in the form of a dove. The Christians expel evil spirits, and perform many cures, and foresee certain events, according to the will of the Logos."

Against Celsus, Book I, 67 - "And the Name of Jesus can still remove distractions from the minds of men, and expel demons, and also take away diseases and produce a complete change of character..."

Lactentius, The Divine Institutes, Book II, 16 (250-320 A.D.) - "But they (demons) fear the righteous, that is, the worshipers of God, adjured by whose name they depart from the bodies (of people); for being lashed by the Christians' words, they not only confess to be demons, but even utter their own names." Also DELIVERANCE is mentioned in Book V., 22, and in The Epitome of the Divine Institutes, Ch. 51. Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechetical Lecturer, 16:12 (350-375 A.D.) - "For He (Holy Spirit) employs the tongue of one man for wisdom; the soul of another He enlightens by prophecy, to another He gives power to drive away demons..."

The Divine Institutes, Book V, 22 - "For these (demons), as long as there is peace among the people of God, flee from the righteous, and fear them; and when they seize upon the bodies of men, and house their souls, they are adjured by the Christians, and at the Name of the true God are put to flight. For when the demons hear of this name they tremble, cry out, and assert that they are branded and beaten; and being asked who they are, whence they are come, and how they have insinuated themselves INTO a man, confess it. Thus, being tortured and excruciated by the power of the Divine Name, they come out of the man."​

Deliverance has been practiced throughout Church history wherever men are led by the Holy Spirit.

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All that means is that hose men could say whatever they wanted to say without any Scriptural support.....just as you do.

The REAL Bible facts are that the only people Jesus Christ gave the authority to cast out demons was the ELEVEN APOSTLES.

Mark 16:14-17...........
"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues".

YOUR name is not found among the ELEVEN!!!

Regardless of what you have claimed, The BIBLE tells us that Jesus gave the apostles the authority to bind and loose--speak and act under God's authority--as the foundational representatives for the church and to cast out demons. They did not act arbitrarily, nor did they operate apart from the Holy Spirit.

Some/YOU misapply that teaching to include binding and casting out Satan.
Now pay attention and read this carefully and then investigate it for yourself.

There is no scriptural command to bind Satan, nor is there any biblical example of the practice.

Satan remains at large as the "prince of the power of the air" until he is chained or bound (by an angel, not a human being) during the millennial reign of Christ.
The disciples cast out demons, but they never bound them or Satan.

Francis Drake said:

Not eleven but seventy!!

There you go again with your theological disinformation, ignoring the fact that Jesus sent another 70 who also cast demons out. Here they are returning.-
Lk10v17And the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us through Your name.”

Of course they didn't act arbitrarily and apart from the Holy Spirit, but neither do I or the others who cast demons out. We do it by the power of the Holy Spirit.

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You do it my your imagination.

You speak of disinformation when you actually do not seem able to read and grasp the plain English in Mark 16:14.........
"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen."

TO THE ELEVEN!!!!

How hard is that?

Francis Drake said:

Personal attacks? Try looking in the mirror.

You are being very hypocritical, accusing me of things that apply to you also.

It's not bragging, just testifying to facts.

You missed the seventy, non apostles who cast demons out.
Lk10v17And the seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us through Your name.”
This messes up your mythology a bit.


By quoting this against me, you are accusing me of not being a born again believer. That completely breached forum rules, so I suggest you stop immediately!

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IF you did, and you are bragging about it then it must be known facts.

That being the case I am sure you can now give us the place and names of those who witnessed your amazing feats.

Please feel free to do so.

It is kind of like seeing "Faith healers' heal all kinds of sicknesses. That is all well said ....until the accounts are needed to be verified by Doctors just to make sure no one is stretching the truth.

1an said:

The point is Christ is not preeminent.
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Honest to the good Lord. Do you actually have ANY understanding of the Scriptures at all???????

Do you realize that what you say has completely destroyed your crdibility?

Christ IS NOT preeminent?????

Definition of preeminent :
having paramount rank, dignity, or importance : outstanding, supreme

Jesus Christ IS THE PREEMINENT person of all the World!!!!!

1an said:

Bluster.

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I am LOL!!!