THE CHANGING OF GOD'S SABBATH TO SUNDAY WORSHIP?

LoveGodsWord · Dec 17, 2020

nolidad said:
Hi LGW:

Hello nolidad.

nolidad said:
1. It entered for the disciples after Sabbath services in the temples and synagogoues would hang around and have a Christian worship as well. since it was after "sundown" (after three stars were seen in teh night sky) it was Sunday by Jewish reckoning. Also Jesus rose on a Sunday so that was developed as teh new Sabbath.

Agreed according to the scriptures the disciples after the death and resurrection of JESUS met everyday of the week according to the scriptures *Acts of the Apostles 2:46-47. This of course does not make every day of the week a holy day of rest and neither does it abolish God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that according to the new covenant scriptures give us the knowledge of Good and Evil; Sin and Righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. There is no scripture in God's Word that says Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a man-made teaching and tradition handed down from the Roman Catholic Church that has led many to break God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments. JESUS warns us about this in Matthew 15:3-9.

nolidad said:
2. The Sabbath has never changed. It also is never for Gentiles nor for the church! the Mosaic Law has been fulfilled and now obsolete. Paul wrote in Corinthians that the tables of stone are a ministry of death (not life) . the Church has entered into perpetual Sabbath rest. We have ceased from our labors towards rightwousness and now have Christ as our righteousness.

Agreed, the Sabbath has never changed. According to JESUS though, the Sabbath was made for all mankind in Mark 2:27. There was no JEW and no Gentile when the Sabbath was made on the "seventh day" of the creation week *Genesis 2:1-3. There is no rest for the wicked according to the scripture *Isaiah 57:20 and no one enters God's rest by breaking his commandments *Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4; 1 John 2:3-4

nolidad said:
3. As the church has no Sabbath and the only prohibition is that we should not neglect the assembling of ourselves together- When the elders of the local assembly, we should strive to be there. also the Sabbath was never a day for gathering together, but rest.

God's 4th commandment *Exodus 20:8-11 is one of God's 10 commandments that according to the scriptures give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4. According to the scriptures if we break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. All those who continue to practice known unrepentant sin will not enter into God's kingdom because they reject the gift of Gods' dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of God's grace *Hebrews 10:26-31. There is no scripture that says Gods' "seventh day" Sabbath 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day. This is a man made teaching and tradition of men that has lead many away from Gods' Word. JESUS is calling us out from following man made teachings and traditions back to the pure Word of God *Matthew 15:3-9; John 10:16; Revelation 18:1-5. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24

nolidad said:
4. Sin is anything done outside the will of god. So even good works can be sin if they are works God did not want us to do in His plan fro our lives. Sinn cannot keep you out of Gods Kingdom. When we trusted Christ 'death and resurrection for our sin-the price He paid on the cross was applied to our account! All of ou r sin, past present and future have been paid for. The lost do not go to hell because they sin, they go because they rejected the death and resurrection of Jesus! With that said, if we choose to live in unrepentant sin, we experience the wages of sin which is spiritual death. For the believer that is a broken fellowship with God until we acknowledge our sin before HIm.

Sin includes breaking anyone of God's 10 commandments according to the scriptures in Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Romans 3:20 and James 2;10-11 and not believing and following Gods' Word in Romans 14:23. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments *Exodus 20:8-11 that give us the knowledge of what sin is according to the scriptures *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7. There is no scripture that says Gods 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day.

Thanks for sharing nolidad, hope this is helpful

LoveGodsWord · Dec 17, 2020

Kilk1 said:
How about this: Christians aren't under the law of Moses (Rom. 7:1-6). The Sabbath command is one of the Ten Commandments, part of the law of Moses (Ex. 20:8; Deut. 5:12). Therefore, we're not under the Sabbath command. Does this make sense?

The purpose of God’s eternal law (10 commandments) in both the old and new covenants are to give us the knowledge of good and evil; sin and righteousness *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. They do not make anyone perfect. God’s eternal law shows us that we are all sinners in need of a savior and lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25. If we have repented from our sins and confessed them to Jesus he is faithful and just to forgive us from our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness * Acts 2:38; 3:19; 8:22; Matthew 3:2; 4:17; Mark 1:15; 6:2; Luke 13:3-5; Proverbs 28:9-13; Romans 6:1-23; 1 John 1:9; Proverbs 28:9-13 and are no longer “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of breaking the law {sin} *Romans 8:1-4. However, if we are continuing in known unrepentant sin then we are still “UNDER THE LAW” condemned before God of sin *Romans 3:19-20 and need to seek him in repentance, confession for your sins and faith in his WORD *John 3:15-21

Hope this helps.

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

Tree of Life said:
The Bible doesn't speak of the commandments being abolished. But we do see that as the church separated from the synagogue that they began to meet on the first day of the week - which would have been Sunday (Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2). That first day is also called "The Lord's Day" in the New Testament (Revelation 1:10). The Sabbath is not just a day of rest in the OT. It's a day of congregational worship (Leviticus 23:3). If the church was worshipping together on the first day of the week, they would have regarded it as the Christian Sabbath.

It is true that Acts 20 speaks of one meeting that happened to occur on week day 1.
It is true that in the Bible week-day-1 corresponds to what we call Sunday.
It is true that 1 Cor 16:1-2 talks about each person laying up by himself - savings on each week-day-1.
It is true that the Sabbath is both a day of rest and of holy convocation

But no bible text says week-day-1 is the "Lord's Day"
It does say "the Sabbath is the Holy Day of the Lord" Isaiah 58:13 however.
No text gives any special name to week-day-1 like "The Christian Sabbath" or "the Lord's Day".

Tree of Life said:
I think we can both agree that the Sabbath command is still binding and that we ought to keep it. But we may disagree on the flexibility of that command.

Would you propose that at Sinai the people were free to pick week-day-2 and ignore the 7th day?

Is there any indication that Jesus or Paul selected "week-day-3" or "week-day-4" instead of "Every Sabbath" Acts 18:4

The 10 commandments themselves don't specify a specific day on which the Sabbath must be celebrated.

The Ten Commandments say "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD" (YHWH) Ex 20:10

And just before that "tomorrow is the Sabbath" Exodus 16.

How is that not specifying a day?

Tree of Life said:
It appears that the early Christians honored the Sabbath on the first day of the week.

Is there any text that says that week-day-1 is our Sabbath??
Is there any text that says "week-day-1 is a holy day for us"??
Is there any text that says "we call week-day-1 the Lord's Day"??
Is there any text that says "we meet each week day 1 for worship"??

Is there any text that says that for all eternity after the cross , in the New Earth "All mankind" comes before God from Sabbath to Sabbath - to worship? Isaiah 66:23 -- yes.

Tree of Life said:
So long as we keep the Sabbath once every week I think there is some room for flexibility.

If God says "the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord" Ex 20:10 and we say "well maybe for you... but not for me" are we keeping Sabbath or something else?

LoveGodsWord · Dec 17, 2020

alan650 said:
Jesus Christ, per the new covenant, graciously given to Gentiles (and all humanity that is! There can only be one covenant at a time!) fulfills the requirement of a Sabbath day. We are in perpetual rest if we have a genuine faith in Jesus Christ. He is the fulfillment of all the law of Moses. Everything changed the moment that Christ took his last breath and the veil was torn!

Hi Alan, according to the scriptures there is only rest for those who believe and follow Gods' Word *Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. No one enters God's rest by knowingly breaking anyone of God's commandments. This is the warning given in Hebrews. Gods 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 7:7; Romans 3:20. There is no scripture that says it is abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. This is a teaching and tradition of men that has led many away from God and His Word in fulfillment of Daniel 7:25. God is calling his people where ever they might be *John 10:16 back to His Word. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth *John 4:23-24.

God bless

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

NBB said:
It doesn't say shadow sabbaths or something like that, it just says sabbath day.
IF this commandment was so important you would think Paul would have told about this more clearly, but no, he just speaks actuallly that you don't need to do this.

Paul does not condemning eating, or drinking or Sabbath days (annual feast days or the weekly Sabbath) in Col 2.... he specifically says he is condemning 'making stuff up' -- in that chapter.

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

NBB said:
The sabbath keeping is considering one day more sacred right? or not observing it is like considering all days alike right?

Romans 14 does not even mention the weekly Sabbath.

It says that one man "observes one day above another while another man observes them all" - that is a reference to annual feast days of Lev 23 where only 3 of them were mandatory for the Jews, yet some observed them all while others observed one above the others

NBB · Dec 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
Romans 14 does not even mention the weekly Sabbath.

It says that one man "observes one day above another while another man observes them all" - that is a reference to annual feast days of Lev 23 where only 3 of them were mandatory for the Jews, yet some observed them all while others observed one above the others

That a weird translation, i didn't read it like that.
How you connect this with all that anyway? its talking about days, the sabbath is 'esteming' a day

NBB · Dec 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
Paul does not condemning eating, or drinking or Sabbath days (annual feast days or the weekly Sabbath) in Col 2.... he specifically says he is condemning 'making stuff up' -- in that chapter.

Let nobody judge you... because of what you eat, or drink, it also says in several parts we can eat everything, except 'blood', and sabbath days and etc.

If we can be judged rightly by someone and are sinning because we don't do the sabbath, then what Paul was thinking writing this?

Redwingfan9 · Dec 17, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Actually no. There is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Sunday worship is a teaching and tradition of men that is not biblical that has led many to break God's 4th commandment either knowingly or unknowingly. JESUS warns us about following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9.

I am the first one to oppose traditions such as Xmas, Easter, musical instruments and uninspired hymnody. Jesus and the Apostles met on the 8th day, they were clearly engaging in worship. It is clear that our Savior changed the day. We should follow him in this matter.

fhansen · Dec 17, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi all, many have not studied the Historical records on how Sunday worship came about in Christianity or have been given a biased Church historical view that is not biblical so thought this might be an interesting topic for discussion.

................

Questions for consideration...

Q1. How did Sunday enter the Church?
Q2. Where is the scripture from JESUS or the Apostles that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day?
Q3. Should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God?
Q4. What is sin and will it keep us out of God's kingdom if we knowingly practice it?

...................

Your thoughts? Friendly discussion please

Ah, conspiracy theories are always fun. The New Testament as well as early fathers speak of meeting and celebrating the Lord’s Supper together on Sunday, the Lord’s Day, the day of His resurrection. Saturday Sabbath was also observed early on and continued to be in both the eastern and western church even until today in some instances. If Constantine wished to promote the pagan practice of sun worship it certainly didn’t work. Or if some odd little pope or another tried it (and none did that I know of) they obviously didn’t get it out in public since nothing like it was ever taught to the common folk. And all the days of the week that we use in the west were named by the Romans after Greek deities.

Constantine participated in establishing the Edict of Milan, which basically gave religious freedom to Roman citizens regardless of religion even though he personally favored Christianity. He also favored Arianism and yet, even as he helped convene the Council of Nicaea to settling the matter, the church ruled decisively against Arianism, hammering out the doctrine of the Trinity, the Nicene Creed, etc. The same Church had assembled the canon of the New Testament that we know today, and 200 years after Nicaea would hold the Council of Orange that all Christians should greatly appreciate for its teachings on grace. When it comes to doctrine, the church simply doesn’t dance to anyone else’s tune.

And, yes, the church, by the Spirit, has the authority to have changed the sabbath from the last to the first day of the week. All Christians should be on board with that, especially considering how far back the beginnings of this go. And the Catholic church along with many Protestant churches teach that the moral law, most especially the ten commandments, are still obligatory even as they're now to be fulfilled by the Spirit, under grace.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 17, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
I am the first one to oppose traditions such as Xmas, Easter, musical instruments and uninspired hymnody. Jesus and the Apostles met on the 8th day, they were clearly engaging in worship. It is clear that our Savior changed the day. We should follow him in this matter.

Agree Red, Christmas and Easter are not biblical and man-made traditions and teachings that have their origin in Paganism and Sun worship. Sunday worship is in the same basket and given to us from the same people that gave us Christmas and Easter which are not biblical having their origins in paganism and the teachings and traditions of men that have led many to break the commandments of God that Jesus warns us about in Matthew 15:3-9.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 17, 2020

fhansen said:
Ah, conspiracy theories are always fun. The New Testament as well as early fathers speak of meeting and celebrating the Lord’s Supper together on Sunday, the Lord’s Day, the day of His resurrection. Saturday Sabbath was also observed early on and continued to be in both the eastern and western church even until today in some instances. If Constantine wished to promote the pagan practice of sun worship it certainly didn’t work. Or if some odd little pope or another tried it they obviously didn’t get it out in public since nothing like it was ever taught to the common folk. And all the days of the week that we use in the west were named by the Romans after Greek deities.

According to the scriptures we are to test the Spirits to see if they are from God or not so the final authority as to what is true and what is not truth is the Word of God *1 John 4:1-6; John 17:17; Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. According to JESUS and the scriptures in the new testament, in the last days there will be many false teachers and false prophets even showing great signs and wonders to deceive if possible God's very elect *Matthew 24:24; Matthew 7:15-20; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; Acts 20:28-30; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 2 Peter 3:14-18. So it is no new thing or conspiracy theory but false teachers are something that we are warned about in the scripture that can lead us away from God and his Word.

fhansen said:
The same Church had assembled the canon of the New Testament that we know today, and 200 years after Nicaea would hold the Council of Orange that all Christians should greatly appreciate for its teachings on grace. When it comes to doctrine, the church simply doesn’t dance to anyone else’s tune. And, yes, the church, by the Spirit, has the authority to have changed the sabbath from the last to the first day of the week. All Christians should be on board with that. And the Catholic church along with many Protestant churches teach that the moral law, most especially the ten commandments, are still obligatory even as its now to be fulfilled by the Spirit under grace.

No, the Church does not have any authority over the scriptures. God's true church is based on believing and following the scriptures. Our very salvation is based on believing and following God's Word and it is God's Word as shown above that shows the difference between truth and error, sin and righteousness. We reject God's Word we are called in the scriptures "unbelievers" no unbeliever will enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Hebrews 3:12; Revelation 21:8; Romans 13:4; 1 Corinthians 15:1-16:24; John 3:16-20; Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23; John 14:6; Ephesians 5:6-7; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15; Ephesians 5:11; 15-17; 1 John 1:6; 1 John 2:3-4; Ephesians 2:8; John 9:31. If we reject God's Word we reject JESUS who is the living Word of God.

Hope this is helpful.

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

NBB said:
Let nobody judge you... because of what you eat, or drink,

Same rule in place before the cross.

Matt 7 "Judge not that you be not judged".

That rule did not condemn eating, or drinking, or the idea of honoring parents, or the Ten Commandments before the cross ... and does not condemn God's Ten commandments after the cross.

They are the Law where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 is still "honor your father and mother" and still applicable to mankind after the cross as it was before the cross.

It is included in the moral law of God written on heart and mind in the New Covenant of Jer 31:31-34.

NBB said:
L
it also says in several parts we can eat everything, except 'blood',

No it says that we can eat was is "sanctified by the word of God" 1 Tim 4:5. The gospel is not about making it healthy to eat rats, cats, dogs, bats, mice etc.

If we can be judged rightly by someone and are sinning because we don't do the sabbath, then what Paul was thinking writing this?

In Col 2 -- Paul is not condemning scripture... he is condemning making stuff up.

Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.

Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,

Col 2: 20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value

Paul is not declaring the Word of God to be "of no value" but rather "commandments of men"

By contrast God's Word says that for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

fhansen said:
The New Testament as well as early fathers speak of meeting and celebrating the Lord’s Supper together on Sunday, the Lord’s Day, the day of His resurrection.

Is it your claim that the New Testament says the the Christian church met every Sunday to celebrate the Lord's Supper and called Sunday the "Lord's Day"??

If so -- do you realize how clarifying that idea would be if you had such a text? I notice you did not include even one such text in your post. Oversight?

Is it your claim that to notice that you have no such text for that -- is to engage in a conspiracy theory??

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

Redwingfan9 said:
I am the first one to oppose traditions such as Xmas, Easter, musical instruments and uninspired hymnody. Jesus and the Apostles met on the 8th day, they were clearly engaging in worship. It is clear that our Savior changed the day. We should follow him in this matter.

Do you have a text saying that Jesus and the apostles met every week-day-1 for worship? Or are you saying that if they ever gathered even once on week-day-1 that makes it a holy day??

Do you recall that according to Acts 2 they met "every day" for communion for some period of time -- do you think they were saying Christians should not do any secular work any day of the week but only have every day as a day of worship?

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

NBB said:
That a weird translation, i didn't read it like that.
How you connect this with all that anyway? its talking about days, the sabbath is 'esteming' a day

It does not mention the weekly Sabbath.

The term "alike" is not in the text - it is in italics because it is "inserted" by the translators.

It is talking about one man observing one of the Bible approved days above the others... while another person observes them all.

The "set" of Bible approved holy days are found in Lev 23. They are annual feast days.

By contrast in Gal 4:8-11 Paul condemns the idea of a Christian observing even one of the pagan days.

BobRyan · Dec 17, 2020

alan650 said:
Jesus Christ, per the new covenant, graciously given to Gentiles (and all humanity that is! There can only be one covenant at a time!) fulfills the requirement of a Sabbath day. We are in perpetual rest if we have a genuine faith in Jesus Christ. He is the fulfillment of all the law of Moses. Everything changed the moment that Christ took his last breath and the veil was torn!

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"
where
"The first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 in that still valid unit-of-ten is "Honor your father and mother" according to Paul in Eph 6 - and is still applicable to all mankind.

Even in the New Testament "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4

which means that even in the New Testament - it is a sin to take God's name in vain.

James 2: . 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors
10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

HARK! · Dec 17, 2020

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF

Redwingfan9 · Dec 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
Do you have a text saying that Jesus and the apostles met every week-day-1 for worship? Or are you saying that if they ever gathered even once on week-day-1 that makes it a holy day??

Do you recall that according to Acts 2 they met "every day" for communion for some period of time -- do you think they were saying Christians should not do any secular work any day of the week but only have every day as a day of worship?

Jesus appeared on Sunday. He next appeared to the gathered saints on the 8th day, made famous in scripture for Jesus rebuke of Thomas.

fhansen · Dec 17, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
According to the scriptures we are to test the Spirits to see if they are from God or not so the final authority as to what is try and what is not truth is the Word of God *1 John 4:1-6; John 17:17; Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. According to JESUS and the scriptures in the new testament, in the last days there will be many false teachers and false prophets even showing great signs and wonders to deceive if possible God's very elect *Matthew 24:24; Matthew 7:15-20; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; Acts 20:28-30; 2 Peter 2:1-22; 2 Peter 3:14-18. So it is no new thing or conspiracy theory but false teachers are something that we are warned about in the scripture that can lead us away from God and his Word.

No, the Church does not have any authority over the scriptures. God's church is based on the scriptures and by believing and following them. Our very salvation is based on believing and following God's Word and it is God's Word as shown above the show the difference between truth and error, sin and righteousness. We reject God's Word we are called in the scriptures "unbelievers" no unbeliever will enter into God's kingdom according to the scriptures *Hebrews 10:26-31; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Hebrews 3:12; Revelation 21:8; Romans 13:4; 1 Corinthians 15:1-16:24; John 3:16-20; Hebrews 11:6; Romans 14:23; John 14:6; Ephesians 5:6-7; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15; Ephesians 5:11; 15-17; 1 John 1:6; 1 John 2:3-4; Ephesians 2:8; John 9:31. If we reject God's Word we reject JESUS who is the living Word of God.

Hope this is helpful.

Not really-just another biblical interpreter with a private opinion. I know, its nice to try to set oneself apart-and that's a primary reason we have so many centuries-after-the-fact opinions, each acting as an infallible voice for all practical purposes, and none necessarily agreeing with each other over the meaning of Scripture incidentally. Like I said, just as Jesus didn't dance to anyone else's tune, neither does His church. The legalistic zealots of His day also accused Him of breaking the Sabbath law, but in reality He just didn't obey their particular interpretation. And regarding oaths He seemed to have virtually dismissed the law on this matter. But thank you anyway.

THE CHANGING OF GOD'S SABBATH TO SUNDAY WORSHIP?

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

Junior Member

שמע

Well-Known Member

Oldbie

Similar threads