Poll: When Are The Orthodox Jews Saved?

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

Douggg said:
The rapture could happen pre-trib (pre-70th week). It is just that it is not mandatory, as pre-trib asserts.

From the forum rules:

Pre-tribulation: The pre-tribulation position advocates that the rapture will occur before the beginning of the seven-year tribulation period, while the second coming will occur at the end of the seven-year tribulation period. Pre-tribulationists often describe the rapture as Jesus coming for the church and the second coming as Jesus coming with the church.

Can you not express your view of when the Jews become Christians without reference to the rapture?

Well, I know the Pre-tribulationalists claim... that the "great tribulation" starts with the beginning of the 7 years, but it's actually the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" that is the tribulation (time, times, and half a time, or 1260 days). In Matthew 24:15-21, Jesus showed the time of "great tribulation" begins when the AOD is setup.

I already declared my stance about Pre-trib's 'tribulation saints' idea, holding to God's written Word. God seals His servants first PRIOR to the start of the tribulation, and that's it. We are shown that in Rev.7 emphatically, with the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel that are sealed. And we are also shown this about all others indirectly, in the Rev.9 chapter about those who are subject to the stinging because they have not God's seal in their forehead.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

jgr said:
Zechariah 12
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Don't forget to include Judas, Caiaphas, and all Jews responsible for Christ's death in your list of saved Jews. We'll be meeting and greeting them in heaven.

I don't know if they are saved or not. That is up to The Lord Jesus Christ. I don't believe the OSAS theory of man either.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

Spiritual Jew said:
But, it was their choice to not believe in the first place.

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

There was a reason that God blinded, or put in a spirit of slumber, some of the Jews and not others. It wasn't just random.

The idea that the unbelieving Jews 'chose' their blindness... goes directly against the Scriptures of God's Word.

Rom 11:7-8
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
KJV

Either one believes God's Word as written, or they do not.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

Spiritual Jew said:
We should allow New Testament scripture to interpret Old Testament prophecies for us.

Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Luke 23:26 And as they led him away, they laid hold upon one Simon, a Cyrenian, coming out of the country, and on him they laid the cross, that he might bear it after Jesus. 27 And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him.

John 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35 And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe. 36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. 37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

And yet again, the Romans 11:8 Scripture is very clear that God placed the blindness upon the unbelievers of Israel.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

Guojing said:
There will certainly be plenty of unsaved people during the 1000 year millennial reign that will need to make a decision to believe in Jesus as their Messiah, and yes, they have to make an annual trip to Jerusalem that Holy Mountain to worship, as Zechariah prophesied.

Jesus will be ruling with a rod of Iron then and we know that not all of them will eventually accept him during the 1000 years. Otherwise, there will not be anyone to be deceived by Satan once he is released, for a little while, after the 1000 years are over.

Exactly. And what you just said is exactly what God's Word reveals about there being a future literal Millennium reign by Jesus Christ and His elect starting on the day of His return. His faithful elect are to reign with Him with that rod of iron over the nations also.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

zoidar said:
All men need to know Jesus is the Messiah, whether Jew or Greek. Paul says:

For just as you -gentiles- once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their -the Jews- disobedience, so these -the Jews- also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you -gentiles- they -the Jews- also may now be shown mercy. For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all.
— Romans 11:30-32

I believe many Orthodox Jews will come to believe in Jesus, but how many is unclear.

You are like me, I actually believe what Apostle Paul said there in Romans 11 that God blinded Israel in part (the majority of Jews) so that His mercy would be upon the Gentiles, and by the removal of their blindness when the 'fulness of the Gentiles' comes in, at Christ's return, that... is when the unbelieving Jews will obtain His mercy, and many of them will believe on Christ Jesus.

I have no doubt of that at all, because it is well written of in God's Word.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

Jamdoc said:
My position on it is nowhere on the poll but.. it begins happening after the Abomination of Desolation when they realize who the antichrist is, and probably really picks up speed after Jesus appears in the clouds after the 6th seal. They'll see Him and mourn. But for sure the last of the remnant is saved here towards the end of God's wrath:
Revelation 11:13

I think that's where they cry out "Baruch haba B'shem Adonai", and that will trigger the third woe, where Jesus returns on the mount of Olives (paralleled with Revelation 19)

The Rev.7 Chapter reveals the 'sealing' with God's seal, the four winds held back until the 144,000 of the children of Israel are sealed. Per Paul in 2 Corinthians 1:21-22, those in Christ are 'sealed' (by The Holy Spirit).

Not all though, because in Revelation 9 we are shown the purpose for being 'sealed' with God's seal...

Rev 9:3-5
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.

5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
KJV

ONLY, those men that have NOT the "seal of God in their foreheads" will be subject to the locust's stinging starting on the 5th trumpet - 2nd woe period.

That stinging is about the deception for the endtimes by the coming false Messiah, what Apostle Paul pointed to with the "strong delusion" of 2 Thessalonians 2.

Spiritual Jew · Dec 17, 2020

Davy said:
That has been reported. (Yes I can report your flaming false accusations.)

You absolutely did say before that you believe there are dead unbelievers (Jews in particular) who will be resurrected in the future and will get a chance to be saved. Are you denying that now?

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

Michael Collum said:
They'll be saved the same way everyone else is, by being born again or not at all.

Yes, but not until God removes their 'blindness' He put upon them, as per Apostle Paul in Romans 11, which he showed will not happen until the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in." That fullness won't happen until Christ returns.

jgr · Dec 17, 2020

Davy said:
I don't know if they are saved or not. That is up to The Lord Jesus Christ. I don't believe the OSAS theory of man either.

Every genuine dispen believes that all Jews in Zechariah 12:10 are saved.

Which of course particularly includes Judas et al, the Jews who pierced Jesus.

But dispens refuse to believe that it includes Judas et al.

So dispens are left with another irreconcilability.

Spiritual Jew · Dec 17, 2020

Davy said:
The idea that the unbelieving Jews 'chose' their blindness... goes directly against the Scriptures of God's Word.

Rom 11:7-8
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
KJV

Either one believes God's Word as written, or they do not.

Did He do that randomly or did He do that to those who already chose not to believe? I showed you this before:

Matthew 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. 14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: 15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Which came first, them closing their own spiritual eyes or God giving them "the spirit of slumber"? Clearly, they closed their own eyes first.

This concept is similar to what we can read in Romans 1:18-32 where it talks about people who, despite knowing God, chose to not glorify Him as God or be thankful to Him and Paul said they had no excuse for that and after that God gave them over to their wickedness. You are trying to give the Israelite unbelievers of Paul's day an excuse for their unbelief, but they had none. If they did then how do you explain passages like Matthew 23 where Jesus ripped into them for their unbelief and rebellion and rendered their temple spiritually desolate?

And it's a similar concept to what we can see in this passage:

2 Thess 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Notice what came first here. These unbelievers "received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved". It is because of their willful unbelief that "God shall send them strong delusion".

You are giving those Israelites an excuse for being unbelievers in the first place, but there is no excuse for that.

You are also not recognizing that Paul said this about the Israelites who were given "the spirit of slumber" in his day:

Romans 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. 11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

Paul said that those very Israelites who were blinded back then only stumbled, but did not fall (Greek: pipto). Instead, through their fall (Greek: paraptoma - different meaning than pipto) the gospel went to the Gentiles. Paul said that those Gentile believers were supposed to, in turn, provoke those Israelite unbelievers to jealousy by preaching the gospel to them. And Paul prayed that he "may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them". Can you see that the very ones who you believe were given "a spirit of slumber" and that you write off as if they were given a spirit of slumber until their deaths were not written off by Paul himself, who hoped to help save some of them?

Postponing the salvation of Israelites to the future is not at all what Paul taught in Romans 11.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
Wouldn't this contradict Matthew 7:21 and Luke 12:10?

No.

Matt 25:28-30
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Look at this. This is about the future Millennium temple of Ezekiel 40-47. Notice what God has these Levites that fell away from Him doing in that future time of Christ's Millennium...

Ezek 44:6-14
6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,

7 In that ye have brought into My sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to pollute it, even My house, when ye offer My bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations.

8 And ye have not kept the charge of Mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for yourselves.

9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into My sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.

13 And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.

14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
KJV

That "house" is about the "many mansions" of the future that are in God's "house" per John 14. The Ezekiel 47 chapter reveals where it will be located in the future, and will include the return of God's River and the Tree of Life back to earth.

Most Churches are not going to teach these Scriptures from the Book of Ezekiel simply because they see mention of sacrifices there and it scares them. Christ Jesus became our Perfect Sacrifice for sin forever, per the Book of Hebrews. So we don't have to worry that we're going back to old covenant worship in that future time, for we will not.

zoidar · Dec 17, 2020

Davy said:
You are like me, I actually believe what Apostle Paul said there in Romans 11 that God blinded Israel in part (the majority of Jews) so that His mercy would be upon the Gentiles, and by the removal of their blindness when the 'fulness of the Gentiles' comes in, at Christ's return, that... is when the unbelieving Jews will obtain His mercy, and many of them will believe on Christ Jesus.

I have no doubt of that at all, because it is well written of in God's Word.

I believe that it has started small scale allready with Messianic Jews.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

Spiritual Jew said:
Why did you not specifically address any of the points I made? Can you do that?

I was not intending to say in that post that the fullness of the Gentiles already came in back then. What I was intending to show is that the Israelites who were broken off of the good olive tree back then in Paul's day were broken off to give the Gentiles the opportunity to be grafted in. The Gentiles, in turn, were supposed to provoke the unbelieving Israelites to jealousy so that they would want to be grafted back in.

What I didn't mention in that post, but have in others relating to this topic, is that I believe this same process is what God intended to happen right up until the second coming of Christ which is when I believe the fullness of the Gentiles will finally have come in.

What you apparently don't understand is that it was only part of Israel that was blinded back then and part of Israel that has continued to be blinded "because of unbelief" but Israelites have been getting saved throughout the last 2,000 years. Why are you postponing their salvation when a good number of them have been getting saved, including the remnant that Paul mentioned were saved in his day?

Also, I believe you need to read Romans 9:6-8 to properly understand which Israel Paul is talking about of which all are saved.

How do you interpret this passage:

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

You can't properly understand what Romans 11 is about without also reading Romans 9 and 10.

You got a whole lot of catching up to do with Scriptures that I showed you about first.

Spiritual Jew · Dec 17, 2020

Davy said:
You got a whole lot of catching up to do with Scriptures that I showed you about first.

I don't need to learn anything from someone who believes that there will be unsaved dead resurrected in the future who will get a chance to be saved instead of facing judgment like Hebrews 9:27 says.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

jgr said:
Every genuine dispen believes that all Jews in Zechariah 12:10 are saved.

Which of course particularly includes Judas et al, the Jews who pierced Jesus.

But dispens refuse to believe that it includes Judas et al.

So dispens are left with another irreconcilability.

I suppose by "dispens" you mean Dispensationalists. I'm not one of those.

I understand that no flesh born man has been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire yet. The great day of Judgment at the end of Christ's future Millennium reign is not yet. It will be that day when Jesus will determine who perishes. We don't have the authority nor right to say who does yet and who doesn't. Apostle Paul had a hope that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. That is my hope too (Acts 24:15).

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

zoidar said:
I believe that it has started small scale allready with Messianic Jews.

It was OT prophecy that a remnant of both the house of Judah and the house of Israel would believe on Christ Jesus. But the purpose of the sealing by The Holy Spirit shown in Rev.9 is against the deception for the very end of this world, for that event starts within the 5th trumpet - 1st woe period. Jesus returns on the 7th trumpet - 3rd woe per Rev.11. So what time must the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period represent?

BNR32FAN · Dec 17, 2020

Davy said:
No.

Matt 25:28-30
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
KJV

Rev 22:14-15
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
KJV

Look at this. This is about the future Millennium temple of Ezekiel 40-47. Notice what God has these Levites that fell away from Him doing in that future time of Christ's Millennium...

Ezek 44:6-14
6 And thou shalt say to the rebellious, even to the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; O ye house of Israel, let it suffice you of all your abominations,

7 In that ye have brought into My sanctuary strangers, uncircumcised in heart, and uncircumcised in flesh, to be in My sanctuary, to pollute it, even My house, when ye offer My bread, the fat and the blood, and they have broken My covenant because of all your abominations.

8 And ye have not kept the charge of Mine holy things: but ye have set keepers of My charge in My sanctuary for yourselves.

9 Thus saith the Lord GOD; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into My sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.

10 And the Levites that are gone away far from Me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from Me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.

11 Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.

12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up Mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity.

13 And they shall not come near unto Me, to do the office of a priest unto Me, nor to come near to any of My holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.

14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
KJV

That "house" is about the "many mansions" of the future that are in God's "house" per John 14. The Ezekiel 47 chapter reveals where it will be located in the future, and will include the return of God's River and the Tree of Life back to earth.

Most Churches are not going to teach these Scriptures from the Book of Ezekiel simply because they see mention of sacrifices there and it scares them. Christ Jesus became our Perfect Sacrifice for sin forever, per the Book of Hebrews. So we don't have to worry that we're going back to old covenant worship in that future time, for we will not.

Ok perhaps I misunderstood your position friend. I thought you were advocating universalism.

Davy · Dec 17, 2020

BNR32FAN said:
Ok perhaps I misunderstood your position friend. I thought you were advocating universalism.

No way. I believe like God's Word says we 'each' must believe, and that is to believe on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ's Blood shed upon His cross for the remission of sins and His Promise of Salvation. Those in the future who still refuse, they will perish in the future "lake of fire" after Christ's future Millennium reign.

nolidad · Dec 17, 2020

BABerean2 said:
The text of Jeremiah 31:31-34 is quoted word-for-word by the author of the Book of Hebrews within Hebrews 8:6-13, and the first verse starts with the word "now".

Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Any unbiased witness would say this shows the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31:31-34.
However, you are not an unbiased witness because this passage kills Dispensational Theology.
Therefore, you continue to be in that river in Egypt up past your eyeballs.
You are in denial.

.

fulfilled:

ful·fill
/fo͝olˈfil/

Learn to pronounce

verb
verb: fulfil; 3rd person present: fulfils; past tense: fulfilled; past participle: fulfilled; gerund or present participle: fulfilling; verb: fulfill; 3rd person present: fulfills

1.
bring to completion or reality; achieve or realize (something desired, promised, or predicted).
"he wouldn't be able to fulfill his ambition to visit Naples"

me·di·ate
verb
verb: mediate; 3rd person present: mediates; past tense: mediated; past participle: mediated; gerund or present participle: mediating
/ˈmēdēˌāt/

1.
intervene between people in a dispute in order to bring about an agreement or reconciliation.
"Wilson attempted to mediate between the powers to end the war"

If Jesus IS mediating the new covenant, how can it be fulfilled.

AND YOU HAVE STILL FAILED TO SHOW WHEN AND HOW THE TERMS OF THE NEW COVENANTR HAVE BEEN FULFILLED ACCORDING TO YOUR HYPOTHESIS:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

I do not disagree that Jesus is now negotiating teh New covenant- but you say it has been fulfilled. So for the 27 time, please show us all as you imply you are so unbiased when you look at Hebrews 8 when the these terms weref ulfilled.

1. when were those days so God makes the covenant with all Israelis "after those days".?

2. When did God pput His law in the inward parts of Israelis.?
3. When did Israelis once again become His people and He, their God?
4. When did all Israelis no longer needed to be taught of God for they all know Him, from the least to the greatest?

If you would just answer those- we can end this thread. But you continue to do your best imitation of Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly and tap dance around from showing that the New Covenant as written is fulfilled.

But since you believe in the two people of God doctrine, that would make it hard for you, I understand that.

But I guess I will keep asking and you will keep avoiding.

Lets try a new twist:

show me when He fulfilled the covenant as expressed in Hebrews 8!

Hebrews 8:6-13
King James Version

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

So are you saying all Israelis are saved at birth? Gods law is in their heart, god no longer remembers their sins, and they all know God from the least to the greatest.

Poll: When Are The Orthodox Jews Saved?

When will the orthodox Jews in Jerusalem be saved?

Never, for they already rejected Jesus and thus The Gospel.

The are condemned already for not believing on Jesus Christ.

When Satan as the Antichrist comes.

When the "fullness of the Gentiles" is complete on the day of Christ's return.

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