Is Leviticus 11 the Teachings of Demons?

HARK! · Jul 20, 2020

BobRyan said:
no.

No and no.

No

No

Agreed that food that is approved of in the Word of God is good to eat

True God calls for obedience to the Word of God not rebellion. Rev 14:12

No - it is part of the Word of God

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
1 John 5:2-3 "this IS t he Love of God that we keep His Commandments"

AWESOME!

Someone finally answered my questions!

You basically came up with the same answers that I did.

Thanks for bringing this thread back from the depths of the deepest bunny hole.

It would seem that 1 Timothy 4 has nothing to do with Leviticus 11.

HARK! · Jul 20, 2020

BobRyan said:
Thanks. Just FYI - for some reason I was not paying attention and did not notice that this is in the MJ forum area and not Sabbath and Law so I am not entirely sure that my post regarding Hebrews 10 and my own views on it is valid for me to have here. If not I apologize -- I added that note to my post.

We mustn't speak against the Torah in this forum.

Hebrews 10 is teaching of 1 Samuel 15, and Psalm 40. It's nothing new; and I know that they weren't speaking against the Torah either.

YHWH wants our obedience over sacrifice.

Obedience to what?

The Torah.

mmksparbud · Jul 20, 2020

HARK! said:
I already stated that not all sacrifices are sin sacrifices.

How does the New Moon sacrifice relate to what happened at Calvary? When you can explain the significance of that sacrifice; and how it was fulfilled at Calvary; I'll start a thread on this forum; and you can explain them one by one to me.

(CLV) Ro 12:1
I am entreating you, then, brethren, by the pities of God, to present your bodies a sacrifice, living, holy, well pleasing to God, your logical divine service,

(CLV) Ro 8:4
that the just requirement of the law may be fulfilled in us, who are not walking in accord with flesh, but in accord with spirit.

I almost forgot. I have the perfect thread for those explanations right here: Incense & Burnt Offerings Forever

Should you choose, you can start by explaining the one listed in the OP, which clearly states, is to be honored forever.

I was about to post this and and everrything disappeared---so will try again. New Moons---

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

The new moon was a call to worship. It did not point to Jesus as the Lamb.

BobRyan · Jul 20, 2020

mmksparbud said:
I was about to post this and and everrything disappeared---so will try again. New Moons---

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

The new moon was a call to worship. It did not point to Jesus as the Lamb.

All animal sacrifices did that - including the sacrifice on the event of the New Moon. But the New Moon event itself is not a reference to the death of Christ.

HARK! · Jul 20, 2020

BobRyan said:
All animal sacrifices did that - including the sacrifice on the New Moon. But the New Moon event itself is not a reference to the death of Christ.

I assume that when you say, "all animal sacrifices did that;" that you mean that they pointed to Messiah. If this is so; then perhaps the sacrifices of the Kingdom to come, are to bear honor of remembrance for Yahshua's part in what YHWH has done for us.

Exodus 13 tells us that for the Passover, we are to remember that YHWH brouought us out of the bondage of Egypt. I view Egypt as symbolic of the world. When this is viewed from this perspective, in line with Yahshua; we can see that once again YHWH has delivered his people.

Perhaps the sacrifices of the Kingdom are in remembrance.

GedaliahMaegil · Jul 23, 2020

BryanJohnMaloney said:
I get it, you're a Judaizer.

You should not use vile pejoratives such as that.

HARK! · Jul 23, 2020

GedaliahMaegil said:
You should not use vile pejoratives such as that.

Ad hominem: The death whimper of a failed logical argument.

GedaliahMaegil · Jul 23, 2020

HARK! said:
Ad hominem: The death whimper of a failed logical argument.

It's worse than that. It's a violation of the agreement-to-post that is required to post on these specific forums. The post I quoted from was replete with what the SOP calls "anti-Torah theology".

BobRyan · Nov 17, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) 1Ti 4:1
Now the spirit is saying explicitly, that in subsequent eras some will be withdrawing from the faith,

Have those, who are obedient to YHWH's perfect Torah, withdrawn from faith?

giving heed to deceiving spirits

Was Leviticus 11 given by deceiving spirits?

and the teachings of demons,

Is Leviticus 11 the teachings of demons?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:2
in the hypocrisy

Are those who claim to follow YHWH, while observing Leviticus 11, hypocrites?

of false expressions, their own conscience having been cauterized;

Is Leviticus 11 a lie?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:3
forbidding to marry,

Does Leviticus 11 forbid marriage?

abstaining from foods,

Does Leviticus 11 tell us that unclean animals are food?

which God creates to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who believe and realize the truth,

Did YHWH declare that it's OK do disobey his word with thanksgiving?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:4
seeing that every creature of God is ideal and nothing is to be cast away, being taken with thanksgiving,

Are unclean creatures given as food of YHWH?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:5
for it is hallowed through the word of God and pleading.

Are unclean creatures "hallowed" (set apart) through YHWH's perfect Torah? If so; what are they set apart from?

Can we plead with YHWH to change his perfect Torah for us? Will YHWH entertain such pleas?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:6
By suggesting these things to the brethren, you should be an ideal servant of Christ Jesus, fostering with the words of faith and of the ideal teaching which you have fully followed.

Didn't Yahshua's entire ministry, teach obedience to YHWH's perfect Torah, unto death?

(CLV) 1Ti 4:7
Now profane and old womanish myths refuse,

Is Leviticus 11 an old wives tale?

yet exercise yourself in devoutness,

Is ignoring YHWH's perfect Torah, an exercise of devotion?

Good point. I am always a bit surprised when someone takes any teaching at all in scripture and claims that God was promoting "teaching of demons"... not sure how people get that mixed up.

HARK! · Nov 17, 2020

BobRyan said:
Good point. I am always a bit surprised when someone takes any teaching at all in scripture and claims that God was promoting "teaching of demons"... not sure how people get that mixed up.

I doesn't surprise me; but it remains unsettling. There is a lot of teaching going on, that isn't founded in a strong understanding of scripture. I don't believe that scripture contradicts itself. If there seems to be any contradiction; I chalk it up to my misunderstanding of scripture. That inspires me to seek out a deeper understanding.

GedaliahMaegil · Nov 18, 2020

BobRyan said:
Good point. I am always a bit surprised when someone takes any teaching at all in scripture and claims that God was promoting "teaching of demons"... not sure how people get that mixed up.

It's easy. Once people start finding certain Scriptures to be inconvenient, they start to use their personal biases (or, more exactly, prejudices) to abrogate the very Word of God.

eleos1954 · Nov 18, 2020

GedaliahMaegil said:
It's easy. Once people start finding certain Scriptures to be inconvenient, they start to use their personal biases (or, more exactly, prejudices) to abrogate the very Word of God.

2 Timothy 4:3
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions ...

Joyous Song · Nov 22, 2020

HARK! said:
I wouldn't try to stop anyone who desires to follow Yahshua's example; as he calls us to follow him.

Hark you are right on but I like to add this as well. No where in any verse are we told to eat big mack or pig meat. You want it; so you eat it.

We eat as our Daddy told us to. Personally I find Kosher food better and I can find many logical reasons for not eating young animals and killing them non-violently (its humane) and not eating bottom feeders or animals that consume others (we are what they ate) and removing the blood (all cancers and toxins and germs enter primarily in the blood. Also why flesh is checked and if there is any sign of sickness meat is discarded.

So there are certainly logical reasons to eat kosher but actually, we do it because our forefathers did as did their forefathers all the way to Moshe. It is our identity, our calling, it may not be yours but last I know we never said you couldn't have a pork salad, just don't demand we have to eat it. That's legalism. No eating kosher makes you no holier than those of us who keep it.

Lulav · Dec 15, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Ro 14:1
Now the infirm in the faith be taking to yourselves, but not for discrimination of reasonings.

(CLV) Ro 14:2
One, indeed, is believing to eat all things, yet the infirm one is eating greens.

(CLV) Ro 14:3
Let not him who is eating be scorning him who is not eating. (fasting) Yet let not him who is not eating (fasting) be judging him who is eating, for God took him to Himself.

Not eating is called fasting.

(CLV) Ro 14:4
Who are you who are judging Another's domestic? To his own Master he is standing or falling. Now he will be made to stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

(CLV) Ro 14:5
One indeed, is deciding for one day rather than another day, yet one is deciding for every day. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

(CLV) Ro 14:6
He who is disposed to the day, is disposed to it to the Lord; and he who is eating, is eating to the Lord, for he is thanking God. And he who is not eating, (fasting) to the Lord is not eating, (fasting) and is thanking God.

This passage tells the readers not to squabble over which days to fast. YHWH gave no commands on which days to fast.

We can find an example of these set fast days in Luke 5: 33-35

How does any of this answer any of the questions presented in the OP?

When all we have is a one sided response (Paul's letter) to things going on in certain congregations we really must understand we don't have the whole picture. Also not to mention the customs of the times and what was going on around them.

One, indeed, is believing to eat all things, yet the infirm one is eating greens.

I do believe that the subject of Romans 14 is not about eating unclean things (meat) or fasting, but about those who were not eating meat, period. There were those who were vegetarians at the time (other works support this), yes even back then. Just as today when you find out that someone in your family over Thanksgiving dinner is a vegetarian the whole table erupts in a debate on why they shouldn't be one.
This is followed by the Vegetarian making all kinds of remarks about them eating flesh.
And it finally disintegrates into name calling and accusations of
'So you think you are better than us?"
Or,
"Yum, I love me some Turkey wrapped in Bacon!"

Basically back them as today, if you didn't partake the way those around you did you were ostracized as those who did felt guilty.

Let not him who is eating (meat - Flesh) be scorning him who is not eating. (flesh - a Vegetarian) Yet let not him who is not eating (Vegetarian) be judging him who is eating (Carnivore)

HARK! · Dec 15, 2020

Lulav said:
When all we have is a one sided response (Paul's letter) to things going on in certain congregations we really must understand we don't have the whole picture. Also not to mention the customs of the times and what was going on around them.

One, indeed, is believing to eat all things, yet the infirm one is eating greens.

I do believe that the subject of Romans 14 is not about eating unclean things (meat) or fasting, but about those who were not eating meat, period. There were those who were vegetarians at the time (other works support this), yes even back then. Just as today when you find out that someone in your family over Thanksgiving dinner is a vegetarian the whole table erupts in a debate on why they shouldn't be one.
This is followed by the Vegetarian making all kinds of remarks about them eating flesh.
And it finally disintegrates into name calling and accusations of
'So you think you are better than us?"
Or,
"Yum, I love me some Turkey wrapped in Bacon!"

Basically back them as today, if you didn't partake the way those around you did you were ostracized as those who did felt guilty.

Let not him who is eating (meat - Flesh) be scorning him who is not eating. (flesh - a Vegetarian) Yet let not him who is not eating (Vegetarian) be judging him who is eating (Carnivore)

His thoughts regarding abstinence, was tied to specific days.

(CLV) Ro 14:5
One indeed, is deciding for one day rather than another day, yet one is deciding for every day. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

I have read that there were disputes in that time, as to how many days a week one should fast, and which days those should be. Unfortunately I didn't save that information to my files.

Lulav · Dec 15, 2020

HARK! said:
His thoughts regarding abstinence, was tied to specific days.

(CLV) Ro 14:5
One indeed, is deciding for one day rather than another day, yet one is deciding for every day. Let each one be fully assured in his own mind.

I have read that there were disputes in that time, as to how many days a week one should fast, and which days those should be. Unfortunately I didn't save that information to my files.

I'll have to disagree. The subject he seems to be addressing is judging one another by practices.

Do Not Judge Your Brother

1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Let's break this down another way:

Subject: Do Not Judge Your Brother

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations:

(points of argument - 2 subjects they were disputing with each other over)

For one believes that he may eat all things (flesh and vegetation): another, who is weak, eats herbs (vegetables, fruits and seeds).

Let not him that eats (meat) despise him that eats not (meat); and let not him which eats not (meat) judge him that eats (meat): for God hath received him.

Who are you that you judge another man's servant? to his own master he stands or falls. Yet, he shall be held up: for God is able to make him stand.

2. One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

(2) He that regards the day, regards it unto the Lord; and he that regards not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.
(1) He that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he that eats not, to the Lord he eats not, and gives God thanks.

For none of us lives to himself, and no man dies to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.

But why do you judge your brother? or why do you despise your brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

You aren't any better or worse if you eat meat (claimed as food by G-d) or only eat (vegetables, fruits, nuts, berries, seeds) you are both on the same playing field with God.

It can't be about fasting here as it is talking about who eats, not wither one eats or not.

For one believes that he may eat all things (flesh and vegetation):
another, who is weak, eats herbs (vegetables, fruits and seeds).

It is talking about WHAT one eats, not IF one eats.

HARK! · Dec 15, 2020

Lulav said:
It can't be about fasting here as it is talking about who eats, not wither one eats or not.

For one believes that he may eat all things (flesh and vegetation):
another, who is weak, eats herbs (vegetables, fruits and seeds).

It is talking about WHAT one eats, not IF one eats.

I've done numerous types of vegetable fasts. These types of fasts are commonplace in the Middle East.

One cleanse I've done is lettuce, potatoes, oranges, bananas, and hot peppers, only for two weeks.

Another one is carrots only for one week.

I know someone who would do, zucchini only, fasts for a month at a time.

On the flip side, some even abstain from everything, including water, for short fasts.

On the flip side, the Nazarite vow, is a fast from grapes.

visionary · Dec 15, 2020

HARK! said:
I've done numerous types of vegetable fasts. These types of fasts are commonplace in the Middle East.

One cleanse I've done is lettuce, potatoes, oranges, bananas, and hot peppers, only for two weeks.

Another one is carrots only for one week.

I know someone who would do, zucchini only, fasts for a month at a time.

On the flip side, some even abstain from everything, including water, for short fasts.

On the flip side, the Nazarite vow, is a fast from grapes.

So instead of saying "I hate.yada yada vegetable".. you say I am on a fast...lol...If they ask how long... Say forever...lol

HARK! · Dec 15, 2020

visionary said:
So instead of saying "I hate.yada yada vegetable".. you say I am on a fast...lol...If they ask how long... Say forever...lol

I might use that technique the next time I'm accosted by a pork pusher.

St. Helens · Dec 15, 2020

HARK! said:
I might use that technique the next time I'm accosted by a pork pusher.

What I say, is that Pork gives me a runny nose - which it does. That is why I don't eat it - and it's not kosher.

Is Leviticus 11 the Teachings of Demons?

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Messianic Ger Toshav - not christian

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Messianic Ger Toshav - not christian

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Messianic Ger Toshav - not christian

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