Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Daniel 11:36-Daniel 12:13 is end times. Daniel 11:36 is preceded by v35 as the transition verse, while the verses and events before it are historic.

Daniel 11:40, time of the end.

Daniel 12:4, time of the end. Daniel 12:7, time/times/half times. Daniel 12:11, 1290 days. Daniel 12:12, 1335 days.
You're not being clear. Where exactly is the gap and within which specified time period are you saying there is a gap? Are you saying there's a gap within the 1290 days? If so, where? Or within the 1335 days? If so, where?
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,781
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
You're not being clear. Where exactly is the gap and within which specified time period are you saying there is a gap? Are you saying there's a gap within the 1290 days? If so, where? Or within the 1335 days? If so, where?
Well, I probably misunderstood your post. I was referring to a gap in time of the events in one vision. That vision in Daniel 11, however, did not have an overall length specified for which all of the events were to be fulfilled.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I would say that the 70th week still being unfulfilled is counter to the reformation teachings on eschatology, and who is the Antichrist, and replacement theology, yes. But I would not taint it with the Jesuits who claim that the Pope is the representative for Jesus.

Futurism has done far more than taint itself. It has embraced the apostate counterfeit inventions of the Jesuit Francisco Ribera with great fervor, and made them a cornerstone of futurist dogma.

Futurism has defiled itself with an apostate counterfeit legacy.

"The “Futurist School” interprets the language of the Apocalypse “literally,” except such symbols as are named as such and hold that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet “future” and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of “Daniel’s Seventy Weeks.” . . . In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the “Antichrist,” and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and among Protestants. . . ., The “Futurist” interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book."

Clarence Larkin, Dispensational Truth
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where did it ever say they would? Did Jesus not tell Israel in Mat 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen"?
Daniel 11:36-Daniel 12:13 is end times. Daniel 11:36 is preceded by v35 as the transition verse, while the verses and events before it are historic.

Daniel 11:40, time of the end.

Daniel 12:4, time of the end. Daniel 12:7, time/times/half times. Daniel 12:11, 1290 days. Daniel 12:12, 1335 days.

Where does it say any of these are divided time-periods? By your avoidance, you obviously have nothing.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,781
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Well, I probably misunderstood your post. I was referring to a gap in time of the events in one vision.
Yeah, no one is denying that. Do you understand now what the point was or not? If not, I will clarify.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,781
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Futurism has done far more than taint itself. It has embraced the apostate counterfeit inventions of the Jesuit Francisco Ribera with great fervor, and made them a cornerstone of futurist dogma.

Futurism has defiled itself with an apostate counterfeit legacy.

"The “Futurist School” interprets the language of the Apocalypse “literally,” except such symbols as are named as such and hold that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet “future” and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of “Daniel’s Seventy Weeks.” . . . In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century, with the Jesuit Ribera, who actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the “Antichrist,” and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and among Protestants. . . ., The “Futurist” interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book."

Clarence Larkin, Dispensational Truth
Ribera taught that the Antichrist will be the King of Israel/messiah coming in his own name?

You have had this discussion before with Biblewriter....

Ribera commentary on the Revelation
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,781
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Yeah, no one is denying that. Do you understand now what the point was or not? If not, I will clarify.
It is a irrevalent point though because there is separation in time in the visions that Daniel recorded.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It is a irrevalent point though because there is separation in time in the visions that Daniel recorded.
It's only irrelevant to you because it is evidence to show that there are no gaps within any specified time frames in Bible prophecy which contradicts your understanding of Daniel's 70 weeks.

By the way, do you plan to ever give us your understanding of the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 which lists six things that needed to be fulfilled within the 70 weeks? I hope you realize that if you can't even do that then your interpretation of the 70 weeks can't be taken seriously.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,718
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,822.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
7,394
2,496
MI
✟308,043.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Imagination has a field day when it is believed that 'after' means 3 1/2 years.
I'm sorry, remind me again of where it says "immediately after"? And please explain how "after" means "at the end of" instead of, you know, "after".
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

You are totally avoiding the question, and you know it. Can you give me another example in Scripture of such a decapitation of a harmonious time-period - like where God says 7 days and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 days, or 7 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 years, or 70 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 70 years? Anything?

You are adding unto the Scriptures in order to decapitate this harmonious prophecy and propel it into the unknown. This is unprecedented in Scripture. In the Bible, an hour means a harmonious hour, even when used figuratively. A day means a harmonious day, even when used figuratively. A year means a harmonious year. 70 weeks means a harmonious 70 weeks. A thousand years
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,718
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,822.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
So the 2300 days have to fit in the 70 weeks. 7 years is 2520 days.
So they simply do not fit. Two different periods at different times.
The 2300 evenings and mornings fit exactly between the desecration of the 2nd Temple by Antiochus 4 E. and it rededication, circa 167 and 164 BC.

The 2520 is the 70th 'week' of Daniel; divided into 2 halves. The second half is well described in Revelation, as the 1260 days, or the 42 months and the 3 1/2 years. Jesus will Return when it is completed.
 
Upvote 0

sovereigngrace

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2019
9,042
3,450
USA
Visit site
✟202,584.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It's only irrelevant to you because it is evidence to show that there are no gaps within any specified time frames in Bible prophecy which contradicts your understanding of Daniel's 70 weeks.

By the way, do you plan to ever give us your understanding of the fulfillment of Daniel 9:24 which lists six things that needed to be fulfilled within the 70 weeks? I hope you realize that if you can't even do that then your interpretation of the 70 weeks can't be taken seriously.

Discussions like this over the years have proved that it is Amillennialists that are the literalists and not Premillennialists. They cannot let the text, context and co-text speak for itself. For to do so would expose their theology.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Spiritual Jew
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,781
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Can you give me another example in Scripture of such a decapitation of a harmonious time-period - like where God says 7 days and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 days, or 7 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 7 years, or 70 years and He didn't mean a linear, congruent and sequential 70 years?
You are arguing over something meaningless, because the vision of the little horn is time of the end, to happen in the 7 year 70th week.

You are totally avoiding the question, and you know it.
I gave you a specific verse Daniel 11:35 of the time of end being a time appointed regarding the visions Daniel recorded.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,718
2,493
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟293,822.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I'm sorry, remind me again of where it says "immediately after"? And explain how "after" means "at the end of".
You know it doesn't, but scripture surely does not say the Messiah is cut off after 3 1/2 years, either.
Which one do people consider the most logical and correct? On, or immediately after the 69th 'week', or some undefined, hazy period later?
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,007
✟784,067.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,781
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
So they simply do not fit. Two different periods at different times.
The 2300 evenings and mornings fit exactly between the desecration of the 2nd Temple by Antiochus 4 E. and it rededication, circa 167 and 164 BC.
Antiochus - not time of the end. Daniel 11:35 is after Antiochus in Daniel 11. The little horn in Daniel 8 is time of the end.

Daniel 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

The time appointed is the 7 year 70th week.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
28,781
3,421
Non-dispensationalist
✟359,693.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Did you learn from it?
From my many discussions/debates/research I have had with the Jews themselves at their sites, about the meaning of the messiah, and what they expect of him, much of which is summarized by their Jewish theologian the Rambam. Since 2004.

_______________________________________________________
from Judaism 101...


The Mashiach
The mashiach will be a great political leader [political leader like the little horn leader of the EU] descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as "mashiach ben David" (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel.[like the little horn standing up in Daniel 8:23] He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.[until he betrays them by claiming to be God]

......

The term "mashiach" literally means "the anointed one," and refers to the ancient practice of anointing kings with oil when they took the throne. [to be anointed by the false prophet as the King of Israel, but who comes in his own name] The mashiach is the one who will be anointed as king in the End of Days.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0