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Not sure if you read the actual commands in post #197, but it probably benefit you if you did read them.
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Not sure if you read the actual commands in post #197, but it probably benefit you if you did read them.
fhansen
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Alright, I did that. There’s also the command of Jesus to believe and be baptized. But all of them are encompassed by and fulfilled by the law to love. The more we know of Gods commands, the more we wish to obey out of love for Him. And this is why the ancient church in both the east and west continued to teach the ten commandments, for example, as obligatory and why Paul could teach in Rom 2:
“All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.”
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Okay. Your not getting it. The keeping of the other NT commands besides the two greatest commands is a part of all of the NT commands. Just telling a person to keep the greatest two and nothing else will give people the wrong impression on what that means unless they know the spiritual meaning behind them. They may wrongfully think there are no other commands we have to obey besides the two. This is the confusion that you can cause if you say to obey the two greatest commandments and nothing else. Sabbatarians believe in keeping the two greatest commandments but they have a different understanding on which commands to keep than say non-Sabbatarians.
As for your implying about how the Old Law is still in effect:
Romans 2:12-13 is not referring to how the Old Law is in effect, but it is Paul recounting biblical history to make a point about how one does not need to be circumcised so as to be saved (Romans 3:1) (Galatians 5:2) (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says,
“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses”
Again, ....“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses”
Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:
"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).
”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).
20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).
“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).
"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).
9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).
16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).
”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).
27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).
50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).
8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).
7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).
“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).
20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).
“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).
"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).
9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).
16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).
”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).
27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).
50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).
8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).
7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).
“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).
Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).
The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).
Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).
So it appears things have changed.
This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).
“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).
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@fhansen
Also, your Catholic. Catholics celebrate on Sunday and not on Saturday as the Old Testament prescribes. So if you believe the Old Testament Law of Moses is still in effect, then you have to also celebrate God's day of rest on Saturday (the 7th day of the week) according to the Law of Moses.
Also, your Catholic. Catholics celebrate on Sunday and not on Saturday as the Old Testament prescribes. So if you believe the Old Testament Law of Moses is still in effect, then you have to also celebrate God's day of rest on Saturday (the 7th day of the week) according to the Law of Moses.
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fhansen
Oldbie
The context is simply end of life judgment and it’s basis:
“But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honorand immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. For God does not show favoritism.” Rom 2:5-11
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fhansen
Oldbie
“A man who is physically uncircumcised, but who fulfills the law, will judge you who are a lawbreaker in spite of having the letter of the law and circumcision. For a person is not a Jew who is one outwardly, and true circumcision is not something visible in the flesh. On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly,and circumcision is of the heart—by the Spirit, not the letter.“ Rom 2:27-29
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@fhansen
I am not going to endlessly go back and forth with you over what Romans 2 says. You cannot isolate verses and read them in a vacuum, my friend. You have to read the broader context, which is Paul addressing the heresy of what I call: “Circumcision Salvationism” (Which is a false belief that says you must first be circumcised in order to be initially saved instead of having faith in Jesus Christ) (See: Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2; Also read very slowly these three verses that took place at the Jerusalem council: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). The list of verses in Post #203 shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Old Law is ended. If you believe it has not ended then you need to tell your church that they are wrong and they need to keep the Saturday Sabbath as the day of rest. You also need to seek to reinstitute the temple so as to do animal sacrifices again. You cannot cheat and say, the spirit of the Law. Either the Old Law is fully and literally in effect or it is not in effect. To dance around the issue and say spiritually it is in effect is to play games with words and reality. Besides, 2 Corinthians 3:6 is not a case for not taking God's Word literally. If you were to read the beginning context of 2 Corinthians 3, it shows that the whole point was about how the two different covenants began. It was a point about how the Old Law was given by literal letter with the two stone tablets and the written Torah; Whereas, on the other hand, the New Covenant was not given in such a way. The New Covenant was first given by the audible words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the words of the apostles under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. These words were then later written down in what we know as the Bible. Paul's whole point here was to get them to break away from the Old Law and not to keep it (by showing the contrast of the differences of both covenants in how they began). For again, it is physically impossible to obey both the Old Testament Law of Moses and the New Testament Law of Moses. Jesus told us about the Old way in how one could make oaths, but He tells us now to not make any oaths at all at the sermon on the Mount. He made a change in the Law. This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Yet, you are refusing that the Law has changed.
I am not going to endlessly go back and forth with you over what Romans 2 says. You cannot isolate verses and read them in a vacuum, my friend. You have to read the broader context, which is Paul addressing the heresy of what I call: “Circumcision Salvationism” (Which is a false belief that says you must first be circumcised in order to be initially saved instead of having faith in Jesus Christ) (See: Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, Galatians 2:3, Galatians 5:2; Also read very slowly these three verses that took place at the Jerusalem council: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24). The list of verses in Post #203 shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Old Law is ended. If you believe it has not ended then you need to tell your church that they are wrong and they need to keep the Saturday Sabbath as the day of rest. You also need to seek to reinstitute the temple so as to do animal sacrifices again. You cannot cheat and say, the spirit of the Law. Either the Old Law is fully and literally in effect or it is not in effect. To dance around the issue and say spiritually it is in effect is to play games with words and reality. Besides, 2 Corinthians 3:6 is not a case for not taking God's Word literally. If you were to read the beginning context of 2 Corinthians 3, it shows that the whole point was about how the two different covenants began. It was a point about how the Old Law was given by literal letter with the two stone tablets and the written Torah; Whereas, on the other hand, the New Covenant was not given in such a way. The New Covenant was first given by the audible words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the words of the apostles under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. These words were then later written down in what we know as the Bible. Paul's whole point here was to get them to break away from the Old Law and not to keep it (by showing the contrast of the differences of both covenants in how they began). For again, it is physically impossible to obey both the Old Testament Law of Moses and the New Testament Law of Moses. Jesus told us about the Old way in how one could make oaths, but He tells us now to not make any oaths at all at the sermon on the Mount. He made a change in the Law. This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed. Yet, you are refusing that the Law has changed.
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We have to put ourselves in the apostles’ shoes. They did not have a completed Bible as we do today. The point of the word “letter” is referring to the Law of Moses. Paul is making a point about how we are not circumcised physically like as the Law of Moses says, but we are circumcised inwardly by obeying Jesus and His commands (whereby nobody had access to a bible or written work of His words like we do today). The question is: How does one fulfill the OLD LAW? Romans 13:8-10 says we are to love our brother. By this we will not steal, murder, covet, etc.; But Paul is not saying that the Old Law is in effect. Paul's point is to get them away from the Old Law by pointing them to the New way or New Covenant teachings. The Old way was the 10 commandments. Thou shalt not murder, thou shalt not covet, etc. But the new way says, “love your neighbor” (Which fulfills these things).
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@fhansen
If the Law of Moses was still in effect, then that means we can be justified by the Law of Moses. But Scripture says the exact opposite. It tells us that we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.
Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says,
“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses”
If the Law of Moses was still in effect, then that means we can be justified by the Law of Moses. But Scripture says the exact opposite. It tells us that we cannot be justified by the Law of Moses.
Acts of the Apostles 13:39 says,
“And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses”
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@fhansen
Then there are Grace commands in the New Testament, as well.
While I have a much larger list, here are five that you should consider.
1 John 3:23 shows clearly that to believe in Jesus is a commandment. This command involves God's grace. Some say that we do not have to keep God's laws to be saved. But clearly this command in the Bible is most definitely is in regards to salvation. This shows that we are under some kind of Law when it comes to salvation, and so when Paul says we are not under the Law, but under grace, he was referring to how we are not under the Law of Moses. Meaning, we do not have to keep the Law of Moses.
Then there are Grace commands in the New Testament, as well.
While I have a much larger list, here are five that you should consider.
#1. Believe the gospel (Mark 1:15).
#2. Let us come boldly unto the throne of grace (that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need) (Hebrews 4:16).
#3. Let there be tears for what you have done. Let there be sorrow and deep grief. Let there be sadness instead of laughter, and gloom instead of joy. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up (James 4:9-10).
#4. Be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20).
#5. This is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ (1 John 3:23).
#2. Let us come boldly unto the throne of grace (that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need) (Hebrews 4:16).
#3. Let there be tears for what you have done. Let there be sorrow and deep grief. Let there be sadness instead of laughter, and gloom instead of joy. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up (James 4:9-10).
#4. Be reconciled to God (2 Corinthians 5:20).
#5. This is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ (1 John 3:23).
1 John 3:23 shows clearly that to believe in Jesus is a commandment. This command involves God's grace. Some say that we do not have to keep God's laws to be saved. But clearly this command in the Bible is most definitely is in regards to salvation. This shows that we are under some kind of Law when it comes to salvation, and so when Paul says we are not under the Law, but under grace, he was referring to how we are not under the Law of Moses. Meaning, we do not have to keep the Law of Moses.
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@fhansen
We can see clearly at the Jerusalem council that the apostles announced that Gentile believers were not commanded to keep the law of Moses.
To say that the Law of Moses is still in effect, means that all believers have to keep it. But the apostles said that there are those who were trying to subvert their souls and saying that they must be circumcised and keep the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), but the apostles did not give any Gentile believers any kind of commandment to do so.
We can see clearly at the Jerusalem council that the apostles announced that Gentile believers were not commanded to keep the law of Moses.
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
To say that the Law of Moses is still in effect, means that all believers have to keep it. But the apostles said that there are those who were trying to subvert their souls and saying that they must be circumcised and keep the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses), but the apostles did not give any Gentile believers any kind of commandment to do so.
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fhansen
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So, if I understand correctly, you do believe that under the New Covenant man is still obligated to being actually righteous, not merely having righteousness imputed IOW, but obligated to a newly defined set of commands. And that in any case he's enabled to obey now by the Spirit?
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Yes. It's what the New Testament plainly teaches in many places.
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
“And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.” (1 Peter 2:8).
“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.” (James 1:21-22).
“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).
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I would also encourage you to check out the verses by Alan Ballou in this video here:
Side Note:
I don't agree with everyting Pastor Alan Ballou says. But I do agree with what he stated in this video.
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fhansen
Oldbie
Well, I agree with all that, of course, and that can be a fairly refreshing-not to mention biblically correct-viewpoint these days, in fact. I'm still struggling with your determination that the law is not in effect, however, even tho historically the church has distinguished between the old and new law with the new encompassing and surpassing the old, and based squarely on love, a love that only God can provide us. This means that we're no longer "under the Law" even though, as Paul maintains, the law is holy, good, right, spiritual etc.
In any case God still reveals in Jer 31 that He plans on placing His law in our minds and writing it on our hearts. Either way, to be "under grace" is the right means to achieving the righteousness that we're still obligated to fulfill. And incidentally the moral law, as outlined by the Ten Commandments, has always been held to be obligatory even as that fulfillment, as well, is fruitless unless achieved by a changed heart, achieved by love IOW.
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It's like in the Parable of the Sower: Whatever verse or passage we do not believe it is not going to remain on the inside of us. For faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). So many of us will speak against certain verses without even realizing it. Thus, the seed of the Word of God is snatched out of our hearts and there is no understanding.
Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:
"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).
”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).
20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).
“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).
"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).
9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).
16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).
”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).
27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).
50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).
8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).
7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).
“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).
"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).
"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).
20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).
“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).
"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).
9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).
16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).
”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).
27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).
50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).
8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).
“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).
“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).
28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).
7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).
“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).
The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).
Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).
The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).
Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).
So it appears things have changed.
This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).
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fhansen
Oldbie
I think this sums it up well. We still must serve, we're still obligated to obedience to God's laws, and yet the real difference between the old and new covenants is the Spirit, is God with us rather than apart from us. Obeying by the letter is to hear the law and then attempt obedience on my own, as if I possessed a righteousness of my own. Regardless of how right the law may well be, this attempt will not succeed; the law cannot justify us IOW-only God can. But I'll read all of those when I get a chance-a bit later.
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No. That's not what Romans 7:6 is saying.
Romans 7:6 says,
“But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
It says we have been delivered from the law. Meaning, it's no more.
We are dead to the law by the body of Christ.
For Romans 7:4 says,
“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.”
Just like a wife is free from the law if her husband be dead.
Romans 7:3 says,
“So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.”
The analogy of the wife being dead to the law by her husband's death means that she can remarry is a parallel of believers are dead to the Law of Moses being wherein we marry Jesus Christ and be faithful to Him.
This wife who is dead to the law of being married is also an analogy of the words used in Romans 7:6 that says, “that being dead wherein we are held” is referring to how New covenant believers are now dead to what previous OT believers were once being held by or bound by previously under the Old Covenant (i.e. the keeping of the Old Law).
This is why the next words in Romans 7:6 says,
“that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
The oldness of the letter is the Old Law within the Torah. We are to serve in the Holy Spirit, and in newness of spirit, and not follow the Old Law of the Torah. For if the Old Law was still in effect, then we would still be told to follow the oldness of the letter (i.e. the Torah).
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