GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

HARK! · Dec 8, 2020

Gary K said:
To those who are Sunday keepers I address the following question.

What law, or laws, did Jesus give in the Bible?

Yahshua is the word in the flesh. In the beginning was the word. The word given to Moses was about Yahshua. Yahshua came to magnify it.

Gary K · Dec 9, 2020

Bob S said:
I know of no "Sunday keepers". Jesus didn't give any laws, if He had given laws asking us to "Keep" a day we certainly would. Keeping days are not new covenant requirements. Keeping days, I do believe, was God's plan for only one nation Israel.

Jesus gave no laws? What Bible do you read?

Remember that Jesus is fully God and fully man. He existed before He came to earth as a human. He said the following to Moses:

Exodus 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

I AM sent Moses to deliver the children of Israel from bondage to the Egyptians. I AM, The Lord God, said of Abraham,

Genesis 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.*n1
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 ¶Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
18 ¶And all the people saw the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off.
19 And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.

So, I AM gave the 10 commandments to the children of Israel and said of Abraham that Abraham obeyed His commandments, His laws, His statutes.

It was the I AM that created the earth and all that is in it. It was also the I AM who created the Sabbath on the seventh day when He blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.

And it was the I AM who told the Jews the following for which they tried to stone Him for blasphemy:

John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

So Jesus is the God who gave not only the 10 commandments at Sinai but all the other laws given to the Israelites. So when He says if you love me keep my commandments He is not just whistling in the dark. He gave the 10 commandments, the moral law and He repeated His OT command to keep His commandments in the NT mulitple times. Jesus is the royal lawgiver. He says so Himself. Will you deny His own words?

LoveGodsWord · Dec 9, 2020

HARK! said:
Yahshua is the word in the flesh. In the beginning was the word. The word given to Moses was about Yahshua. Yahshua came to magnify it.

This is what it means when the scriptures talk about rejecting God's Word we reject JESUS.

HARK! · Dec 9, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
This is what it means when the scriptures talk about rejecting God's Word we reject JESUS.

(CLV) Jn 5:45
"Be not supposing that I shall be accusing you to the Father. He who is accusing you to the Father is Moses, on whom you rely.

(CLV) Jn 5:46
For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for the writes concerning Me.

(CLV) Jn 5:47
Now if you are not believing this writings, how shall you be believing My declarations?"

Moses is used synonymously with the Torah.

Bob S · Dec 9, 2020

Gary K said:
Jesus gave no laws? What Bible do you read?

Hi Gary, either I didn't explain correctly or you mis~~interpreted~~ understood what I wrote. Jesus, in the New Testament never ever commanded the anyone observe a day, any day. There is no such thing that tells Christians that we must observe a day. No one on this forum is tell us we must keep Sunday Holy. Yes, there are some mistaken people in this World that have done some twisting of scripture and think they are obligated to keep a day.

Remember that Jesus is fully God and fully man. He existed before He came to earth as a human. He said the following to Moses:

I AM sent Moses to deliver the children of Israel from bondage to the Egyptians. I AM, The Lord God, said of Abraham,

So, I AM gave the 10 commandments to the children of Israel and said of Abraham that Abraham obeyed His commandments, His laws, His statutes.

Deut 5:1 Moses summoned all Israel and said: Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 3It was not with our ancestors that the Lord made this covenant, but with us, with all of us who are alive here today.

So Gary, can we establish the fact that the covenant's commands and statues given to Abraham were not the same as were given to Israel? I know what you have been taught, I was taught that too.

It was the I AM that created the earth and all that is in it. It was also the I AM who created the Sabbath on the seventh day when He blessed the seventh day and hallowed it.

Here again, I know what is behind your statement. The verses in Genesis are not, in any way, telling us the weekly Sabbath was established at creation. There is nothing in scripture that would indicate that anyone observed the day until Israel crossed the Red Sea. No history from China, Australia, Africa, Americas or any other part of the World indicates anyone observing the Sabbath at any time. It took several weeks of God's leading to get across

And it was the I AM who told the Jews the following for which they tried to stone Him for blasphemy:

So Jesus is the God who gave not only the 10 commandments at Sinai but all the other laws given to the Israelites. So when He says if you love me keep my commandments He is not just whistling in the dark. He gave the 10 commandments, the moral law and He repeated His OT command to keep His commandments in the NT mulitple times. Jesus is the royal lawgiver. He says so Himself. Will you deny His own words?

First of all are the commands written with God's finger any more sacred than those commands than came forth from His mouth and God had Moses to write on parchment? Remember, I was a SDA for forty years so I know a might about what you all believe. You believe that the laws that came from the Mouth of God were, as some say, shadow laws and for the most part are defunct. Somehow the unclean meat laws and tithing laws* have escaped the rule and must be obeyed. SDAs don't accept the feast days as being binding as do the Messianic believers. The prophet reigns supreme over those matters. The fact is that Jesus gave the ten commandments to ONLY the ones who came out of Egypt and stood before Mt Sinai and to their successors. The covenant laws were not given to Gentile nations. No other people on this Earth were given the 613 laws that was given to Israel at Sinai. Yes, Jesus said "if you love Me keep MY commandments". Jn 15 explains all of this. Do you believe the Jesus words in those verses?
5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9“As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

What were the commands that Jesus kept? The commands of the old covenant, correct? He didn't indicate that we should do like Him did He? No, He then asked us to do something never done before, verse 12:"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." Try to find that command in the old covenant. The next verse says it all: 13 "Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends." Jesus did just that for all of us. In 1Jn 3 John does an excellent job of expalining the requirements that Jesus would have us live under.

19This is how we know that we belong to the truth and how we set our hearts at rest in his presence: 20If our hearts condemn us, we know that God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything. 21Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him. 23And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

In those verses John explains so eloquently how Christian are to live our lives. He expains what "keep the commandmens" in all of thos verses mean. All those verses are not in referrence to the tren commandments, they are in referrence to Jeus commands found in Jn 15. I hate to burst your bubble. Mine was burst over twenty years ago. These last twenty years of being free from the dictaes of a legalistic hierarchy has been a most blissful time of my life. The truth is that Jesus is enough. He set us free from the bondage of the law, gave us the most precious Holy Spirit as our guide and the promise of eternal life. Our part is to love our neighbors as He loves us. What we do for the least of our fellow man we are do unto Him. That is how we serve Him. It is not about keeping ritual days or what we eat or if we pay a faithful tithe*, it is caring for the down trodden.

*There is no command in the new covenant about paying tithe. Even in the old covenant only those who raised livestock and or crops paid a tithe except for the Levi Priesthood. Jesus would not have qualified to be a tithe payor. Christian tithing is just another falsehood teaching some churches have conjured up to intimidate their members into filling the coffers.

HARK! · Dec 9, 2020

Bob S said:
There is no such thing that tells Christians that we must observe a day

“Therefore let us keep the feast, not with the old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1 Cor. 5:8

Bob S · Dec 9, 2020

HARK! said:
“Therefore let us keep the feast, not with the old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 1 Cor. 5:8

Oh, come on friend, that is no command and of all people you should know that.

HARK! · Dec 9, 2020

Bob S said:
Oh, come on friend, that is no command and of all people you should know that.

UNLEAVENED BREAD

“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)

JLB777 · Dec 10, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really dear friend the confusion is yours not mine as you only part quoted what I said. The new covenant was first given in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27 and repeated in Hebrews 8:10-12.

Does. This mean you believe we are somehow not under the New Covenant?

If you have scriptures from Jesus or His Apostles, about how the Church is to “remember the Sabbath” please share.

JLB

LoveGodsWord · Dec 10, 2020

JLB777 said:
Does. This mean you believe we are somehow not under the New Covenant?

If you have scriptures from Jesus or His Apostles, about how the Church is to “remember the Sabbath” please share.

JLB

No we are in the new covenant not the old. The rest of the post that you left out of your comments above shows this. Perhaps you did not read the rest of the post you are quoting from. The Mosiac laws for remission of sin are not Gods' eternal moral laws (10 commandments) which are the standard of sin and righteousness in the new covenant that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and righteousness when obeyed *Psalms 119:172. God's 4th commandment explains itself in Exodus 20:8-11. We are commanded by God to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". It is a holy day of rest where no work is to be done that we are to set aside on the "seventh day of the week as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of Heaven and earth. Jesus taught it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12; that he is Lord of the Sabbath *Mark 2:28 and that He made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. Jesus is our example *1 Peter 2:21-25 and his custom was to keep the Sabbath *Luke 4:16. Paul follows the thoughts of JESUS when he says "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9. By the way the new testament scriptures do not delete the old testament scriptures. In the days of JESUS and the Apostles the Old covenant scriptures were their bible. Nearly everything we have in the new covenant comes from the old testament scriptures *2 Timothy 3:16; 1 Corinthians 10:11; Matthew 4:4; Hebrews 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). Together both the old and new testament scriptures make up the Word of God that testifies of JESUS and God's plan of salvation for all mankind. In regards to Ephesians 2:15. God's 10 commandments are not contained in ordinances. The Greek words used here is G1378 dogma δόγμα and means a civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law (e.g. circumcision, animal sacrifices for sin offerings, washings, and holy days) these laws were the enmity that separated the Jews and Gentiles believers and made God's salvation of the old covenant strictly Jewish. Jesus is our true sacrifice for sin and sins penalty (death - Romans 6:23) bringing reconciliation to both Jew and gentile believers. All are now one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11 and Romans 10:11-13.

Your welcome dear friend

JLB777 · Dec 10, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
No we are in the new covenant not the old. The rest of the post that you left out of your comments above shows this. Perhaps you did not read the rest of the post you are quoting from. The Mosiac laws for remission of sin are not Gods' eternal moral laws (10 commandments) which are the standard of sin and righteousness in the new covenant that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4 and righteousness when obeyed *Psalms 119:172. God's 4th commandment explains itself in Exodus 20:8-11. We are commanded by God to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy". It is a holy day of rest where no work is to be done that we are to set aside on the "seventh day of the week as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of Heaven and earth. Jesus taught it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12; that he is Lord of the Sabbath *Mark 2:28 and that He made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. Jesus is our example *1 Peter 2:21-25 and his custom was to keep the Sabbath *Luke 4:16. Paul follows the thoughts of JESUS when he says "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9. By the way the new testament scriptures do not delete the old testament scriptures. In the days of JESUS and the Apostles the Old covenant scriptures were their bible. Nearly everything we have in the new covenant comes from the old testament scriptures *2 Timothy 3:16; 1 Corinthians 10:11; Matthew 4:4; Hebrews 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). Together both the old and new testament scriptures make up the Word of God that testifies of JESUS and God's plan of salvation for all mankind. In regards to Ephesians 2:15. God's 10 commandments are not contained in ordinances. The Greek words used here is G1378 dogma δόγμα and means a civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical law (e.g. circumcision, animal sacrifices for sin offerings, washings, and holy days) these laws were the enmity that separated the Jews and Gentiles believers and made God's salvation of the old covenant strictly Jewish. Jesus is our true sacrifice for sin and sins penalty (death - Romans 6:23) bringing reconciliation to both Jew and gentile believers. All are now one in Christ *Ephesians 2:11-13; Galatians 3:28-29; Romans 2:28-29; Colossians 3:11 and Romans 10:11-13.

Your welcome dear friend

Still hoping that you would answer my question.

If you have scriptures from Jesus or His Apostles, about how the Church is to “remember the Sabbath” please share.

Do you believe it’s a sin to attend Church on Sunday?

JLB

Bob S · Dec 10, 2020

HARK! said:
UNLEAVENED BREAD

“And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance FOREVER.” (Exodus 12:17)

To Whom was that addressed? Certainly not new covenant Christians.

LoveGodsWord · Dec 10, 2020

JLB777 said:
Still hoping that you would answer my question.

If you have scriptures from Jesus or His Apostles, about how the Church is to “remember the Sabbath” please share.

Do you believe it’s a sin to attend Church on Sunday?

JLB

Do you not believe the scriptures shared with you dear friend that answer your question in post # 1610? If not why not? It is not a sin to attend Church any day that has never been the problem. Sin is the problem which is defined in the scriptures as breaking or disobeying anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 or not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23. According to Isaiah, JESUS and Paul, many close there eyes from seeing God's Word and there ears from hearing Gods' Word when it does not agree with them in Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:13-15 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27, in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who do this are not following God in Matthew 15:3-9. Nothing has changed today. We do not want to find ourselves in that group when JESUS returns and says "depart from me you who work iniquity, I never knew you" - Matthew 7:21-23. Today, if we hear His Voice (the Word) we should not harden our hearts like in the days in the wilderness *Hebrews 3:8;13-15; Hebrews 4:7. God's sheep according to JESUS, hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and follow are not His sheep and do not hear Gods Word or follow it *John 10:26-27. Only God's Word is true according to the scriptures and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29. Ignoring them does not make them disappear. They become our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48.

Studyman · Dec 10, 2020

Bob S said:
To Whom was that addressed? Certainly not new covenant Christians.

I know it is your custom to ask questions, but seldom answer them.

But Given the voracity of this question, I felt compelled to share, not my religious philosophy, but Paul's so that you may find your answer from Scripture and not the religious philosophies of men. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles, so surely you will not argue that this message written to the Corinthians was addressed, not just to men of Jewish DNA, but also Gentiles.

1 Cor. 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

So then Paul and you are in opposition regarding what was written in the Law of Moses, which the Christ promised to write on the hearts of His People.

You might consider that if God's Spiritual instruction regarding oxen was "Written for our sake's no doubt", surely the Holy Feast of the Christ, "Feast of Unleavened Bread" was written for our sake's no doubt as well.

This would perfectly explain why Paul said the Word's Hark quoted, also to the Corinthians.

1 Cor. 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Why???? Because it was "Written for our, (Jew and Gentile) sake's, NO DOUBT.

So then the Holy Scriptures both answers your question, and corrects your religious philosophy.

"To Whom was that addressed?"

Paul's answer, to us, Jew and Gentile, for our sake's no doubt.

"Certainly not new covenant Christians."

Untrue, the directive was specifically addressed to New Covenant Christians, for their sake's no doubt. Who else would Paul be addressing?

JLB777 · Dec 10, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Do you not believe the scriptures shared with you dear friend that answer your question in post # 1610? If not why not? It is not a sin to attend Church any day that has never been the problem. Sin is the problem which is defined in the scriptures as breaking or disobeying anyone of God's 10 commandments *James 2:10-11 or not believing and following God's Word *Romans 14:23. According to Isaiah, JESUS and Paul, many close there eyes from seeing God's Word and there ears from hearing Gods' Word when it does not agree with them in Isaiah 6:9-10; Matthew 13:13-15 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27, in order to follow man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God. JESUS says those who do this are not following God in Matthew 15:3-9. Nothing has changed today. We do not want to find ourselves in that group when JESUS returns and says "depart from me you who work iniquity, I never knew you" - Matthew 7:21-23. Today, if we hear His Voice (the Word) we should not harden our hearts like in the days in the wilderness *Hebrews 3:8;13-15; Hebrews 4:7. God's sheep according to JESUS, hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Those who do not hear and follow are not His sheep and do not hear Gods Word or follow it *John 10:26-27. Only God's Word is true according to the scriptures and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Sorry but you post contains no commandments or instructions from Jesus or Paul or any of the writers of the New Testament about how the Church is to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant, and especially those who dwell outside the land of Israel.

LoveGodsWord said:
If not why not?

Because you have failed to offer any scripture from Jesus or His Apostles that give specific instructions or commandments to the Church in how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

You did however state your opinion and tag your opinion with a scripture reference, though.

Example:

Paul follows the thoughts of JESUS when he says "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9.

This of course is NOT what Hebrews 4:9 says at all.

Posting a reference to a scripture without posting the scripture itself is extremely misleading.

Here is what Hebrews 4:9 says —

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. Hebrews 4:9

Here it is with the greater context —

For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said:
“So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest,’ ”
although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.”
Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. Hebrews 4:3-10

Where are the instructions for one serving the Sabbath in this verse?

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

JLB

LoveGodsWord · Dec 10, 2020

JLB777 said:
Sorry but you post contains no commandments or instructions from Jesus or Paul or any of the writers of the New Testament about how the Church is to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant, and especially those who dwell outside the land of Israel. Because you have failed to offer any scripture from Jesus or His Apostles that give specific instructions or commandments to the Church in how we are to observe the Sabbath under the New Covenant.

Not really dear friend that is not true at all but let me explain why through the scriptures once more. The instructions in regards to Gods' 10 commandments are found in Exodus 20:1-17 and specifically in regards to Gods' 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8-11. God's people had been keeping Gods' commandment for 4000 years before JESUS came. Jesus and all the Apostles kept all of God's law, as well as God's 4th commandment Sabbth. As posted earlier in the scriptures you ignored, we are commanded by God to "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" *Exodus 20:8-11. It is a holy day of rest where no work is to be done that we are to set aside on the "seventh day" of the week as a memorial of creation and a celebration of God as the creator of Heaven and earth. Jesus taught it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath *Matthew 12:1-12; that he is Lord of the Sabbath *Mark 2:28 and that He made the Sabbath for all mankind in Mark 2:27. Jesus is our example *1 Peter 2:21-25 and his custom was to keep the Sabbath *Luke 4:16. Paul follows the thoughts of JESUS when he says "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9. Nearly everything we have in the new covenant comes from the old testament scriptures *2 Timothy 3:16; 1 Corinthians 10:11; Matthew 4:4; Hebrews 8:10-12 (from Jeremiah 31:31-34). Together both the old and new testament scriptures make up the Word of God that testifies of JESUS and God's plan of salvation for all mankind. All of God's 10 commandment including God's 4th commandment given by God and written on stone and written in the Mosaic book of the law in Exodus 20:1-17 are repeated all through the new testament scriptures (scripture support here linked). In the new covenant (not the old) the purpose of God's law (10 commandments) is to give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7 and according to James if we break any one of them we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. According to Paul their role is to show us that we are all sinners in need of God's salvation and they lead us to Christ that we might be forgiven through faith *Galatians 3:22-25.

JLB777 said:
Paul follows the thoughts of JESUS when he says "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath in Hebrews 4:9. This of course is NOT what Hebrews 4:9 says at all. Posting a reference to a scripture without posting the scripture itself is extremely misleading.

Nonsense dear friend your post has no truth in it but let me explain why from the scriptures in detail so we can examine if your claims have any truth in them by looking at all the context leading to Hebrew 4:9 and also look at the Greek contexts shall we?

WHAT IS HIS REST (God's) IN HEBREWS 3 and HEBREWS 4?

HEBREWS 4
[1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
[2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
[3], For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into MY REST: ALTHOUGH THE WORKS WERE FINISHED FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD (reference to Genesis 2:1-3).
[4], For he spoke in a certain place of the SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And God did rest the SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
[5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST (the seventh day Sabbath of creation).

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:1-5

NOTE: CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD [the GOSPEL] enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD'S SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD do not enter into that rest.

[6], Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
[7], Again, he limits a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
[8], For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
[9] SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

[10], For he that is entered into his rest, he also has ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
[11], Let us labor therefore to enter that rest, [God’s REST the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH] lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief [rejecting God’s WORD and sin; Hebrews 3].

KEY POINTS OF HEBREWS 4:9

Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “SO THEN, IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

................

The Aramaic translation says in HEBREWS 4:9 THEREFORE IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH

Most of the other translations use...

HEBREWS 4:9 THERE REMAINS A SABBATH REST TO THE PEOPLE OF GOD (also good)

Which ever translation you want to use whether Greek of Aramaic it still works out the same. "There still remains a Sabbath rest (Sabbatismos is the verbal noun for keeping the Sabbath).

GREEK INTERLINEAR
HEBREWS 4:9 άρα (Then) απολείπεται (there is left) σαββατισμός (a Sabbath keeping) τω (to the) λαώ (people) του θεού (of God)

STRONGS LEXICON
So ἄρα (ara) Conjunction Strong's Greek 686: Then, therefore, since. Probably from airo; a particle denoting an inference more or less decisive.
there remains ἀπολείπεται (apoleipetai) Verb - Present Indicative Middle or Passive - 3rd Person Singular Strong's Greek 620: From apo and leipo; to leave behind; by implication, to forsake. a Sabbath rest σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos) Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity. for the τῷ (tō) Article - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the. people λαῷ (laō) Noun - Dative Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2992: Apparently a primary word; a people. of God. Θεοῦ (Theou) Noun - Genitive Masculine Singular Strong's Greek 2316: A deity, especially the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very.

STRONGS CONCORDENCE
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest Definition: a sabbath rest Usage (DOING): a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

BDAG
σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ (σαββατίζω; Plut., Mor. 166a cj.; Just., D. 23, 3) sabbath rest, sabbath observance fig. Hb 4:9 a special period of rest for God’s people modeled after the traditional sabbath (CBarrett, CHDodd Festschr. ’56, 371f [eschat.]).—S. on κατάπαυσις HWeiss, CBQ 58, ’96, 674–89. M-M. TW.

ENGLISHMAN'S CONCORDANCE
Hebrews 4:9 N-NMS GRK: ἄρα ἀπολείπεται σαββατισμὸς τῷ λαῷ NAS: there remains a Sabbath rest for the people KJV: therefore a rest to the people INT: Then remains a sabbath rest to the people

HEBREWS 4:9 [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

Resting therefore is how the sabbath is kept. Have lots more tracing this right back to the Hebrew root words. If you would like it let me know.

Sorry dear friend your claims have no truth in them. Let's believe what God says.

Your welcome

HARK! · Dec 10, 2020

Bob S said:
To Whom was that addressed? Certainly not new covenant Christians.

Israel. Christians are grafted into Israel, just as the mixed multitude at Sinai. The renewed covenant is with Israel. Yahshua was commissioned for none but Israel.

YHWH doesn't keep two sets of books.

JLB777 · Dec 11, 2020

LoveGodsWord said:
Not really dear friend that is not true at all but let me explain why through the scriptures once more. The instructions in regards to Gods' 10 commandments are found in Exodus 20:1-17 and specifically in regards to Gods' 4th commandment in Exodus 20:8-11.

Sorry but you have plainly stated we are not under the old covenant.

So you don’t get to get flip flopping back and forth, going around in circles.

Let me know when you have a scripture from Jesus Christ, the Mediator of the New Covenant that commands the Church how He wants us to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant?

I’ll be waiting...

Studyman · Dec 11, 2020

JLB777 said:
Sorry but you have plainly stated we are not under the old covenant.

So you don’t get to get flip flopping back and forth, going around in circles.

Let me know when you have a scripture from Jesus Christ, the Mediator of the New Covenant that commands the Church how He wants us to observe the Sabbath today, under the New Covenant?

I’ll be waiting...

Jer. 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I'm not sure what Covenant you are addressing. But the God of the Bible promised a New Covenant in Which HE Writes HIS LAWS in the minds of HIS People.

Now religious men may not recognize, believe in, or otherwise accept this God and His Laws. But it is clear that the 4th Commandment is, in fact, part of God's Law. Therefore, if the Scriptures can be trusted, it is one of God's Holy Commandments HE writes on the mind of His People.

This is the Christ who gave us the promise of the New Covenant. He is the Lord of the Sabbath. It was HIM who gave the Commandment as the Word of God in the first place.

I don't know who has convinced you that this same Christ singled out this one Commandment, without having told or Prophesied of such an action, and secretly voided this Commandment from the rest of HIS instruction.

That is the implication of your religious philosophy here, but this doctrine can not be supported with scripture.

I would "take heed" that you be careful not to repeat the same errors of those who didn't accept the Gospel of Christ shown them when coming out of Egypt.

1 Cor. 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. 6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. 12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

So then, to find these example written for our admonition, so we can "take heed", we would go to the Oracles of God, the Holy Scriptures which Paul said were "given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

When we do this we find;

Ez. 20:10 Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness.

11 And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.

12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

13 But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them.

So then, if we are to learn from these examples as Paul teaches, so as not to "lust after evil things, as they also lusted." and thereby be subject to the wrath of God, we should understand that polluting God's Sabbaths is not a practice we should emulate.

At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Bob S · Dec 11, 2020

Studyman said:
I know it is your custom to ask questions, but seldom answer them.

Great start there Studyman. I guess it must be the best way to start a post by putting down the person you are wanting to teach something even if it is not the real truth.

But Given the voracity of this question, I felt compelled to share, not my religious philosophy, but Paul's so that you may find your answer from Scripture and not the religious philosophies of men.

Please don't strain yourself on my part brother. It must have taken all of you and must be a great sacrifice to write this lesson for my edifice. I do hope it didn't cause you a tremendous amount of anguish.

Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles, so surely you will not argue that this message written to the Corinthians was addressed, not just to men of Jewish DNA, but also Gentiles.

1 Cor. 9:7 Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

So then Paul and you are in opposition regarding what was written in the Law of Moses, which the Christ promised to write on the hearts of His People.

You might consider that if God's Spiritual instruction regarding oxen was "Written for our sake's no doubt", surely the Holy Feast of the Christ, "Feast of Unleavened Bread" was written for our sake's no doubt as well.

Why did you stop with verse 10? The theme of the chapter was to teach the new Christians to pay others a wage for their labor. I contend every bit of what Paul wrote is in the Royal Law of ❤. If we love our fellow man we will not cheat them on what they should be earning. So, my brother you are wrong again. Those verses didn't, in any way, convine me that the law written on our hearts are the laws of the Sinai covenant. Nor that the feast of the unleavened bread concerns new covenant Christians. Now lets finish this supposed lesson and see if you have done any better.

This would perfectly explain why Paul said the Word's Hark quoted, also to the Corinthians.

1 Cor. 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Why???? Because it was "Written for our, (Jew and Gentile) sake's, NO DOUBT.

So then the Holy Scriptures both answers your question, and corrects your religious philosophy.

"To Whom was that addressed?"

Paul's answer, to us, Jew and Gentile, for our sake's no doubt.

"Certainly not new covenant Christians."

Untrue, the directive was specifically addressed to New Covenant Christians, for their sake's no doubt. Who else would Paul be addressing?

Assume,assume and more assumptions. A little sin permeates the whole congregation. That is what leaven does to a batch of dough. Paul was aware of sexual immorality in the Corinthian church and the members were to purge the ones causing the church problems. 8 Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old bread leavened with malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. The leaven, the dough, the unleavened bread and the feast were allegories, something the church could understand. It certainly was not telling the church they had to keep the old covenant feast of unleavened bread. Even if a Christian would decide to observe the unleavened feast law it doesn't mean that law is written in/on our ❤s.
Rom 6:14For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means!
1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
1 Corinthians 9:21
To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
Galatians 5:18
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Paul writes that Christians are not under the "Law". What Law? The laws of the Sinai covenant (old covenant) that ended when the new covenant was ratified. How could a covenant that ended at Calvary have its commands written in/on our hearts? The old covenant had laws concerning only Israelites. No other nation had experiences like Israel had, so to try to tell us that we have all those laws written on/in our hearts is ludacres.

No, your lesson, that seems like it was so hard for you to write because of my neglect to answer some question somewhere, does not prove Christians have the law of Moses written on/in our hearts, sorry.

GOD'S WORD vs TRADITIONS OF MEN; Sabbath vs Sunday

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