Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

1an · Dec 10, 2020

Major1 said:
Would the Holy Spirit be present in a "MAKE-Believer"?????

Of course the Holy Spirit would not be present in a Make-believer, only in a true believer. This is why I would never accuse beautiful Christians of fakery. To do so, in my view, would be to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit who is always present with us, his purpose to fulfill.

1. The Holy Spirit Is a Helper Who Teaches and Reminds
In John 14:26 Jesus told his disciples, “the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you” (John 14:26).

2. The Holy Spirit Convicts the World of Sin. (John 16:7-8).

3. Holy Spirit Dwells in Believers and Fills Them (1 Corinthians 3:16)

4. Is a Source of Revelation, Wisdom, and Power (1 Corinthians 2:10-11).

5. The Holy Spirit Guides to All Truth, Including Knowledge of What Is to Come John 16:13

6. Attributes of the Holy Spirit such as wisdom, knowledge, and power are manifested in the lives of believers for the good of others. More gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11.

7. The Holy Spirit Is a Seal in the Lives of Believers. (Ephesians 1:13).

8. The Holy Spirit Helps in a Christian’s Weakness and Intercedes for Them
(Romans 8:26-27).

9. The Holy Spirit Makes Believers New and Gives Them Eternal Life. (Romans 8:10-11).

10. The Holy Spirit Sanctifies and Enables Believers to Bear Good Fruit in Their Lives (Galatians 5:22-25).

I would never ever dare deny the workings of the Holy Spirit however He manifests himself.
.

Major1 · Dec 10, 2020

1an said:
Of course the Holy Spirit would not be present in a Make-believer, only in a true believer. This is why I would never accuse beautiful Christians of fakery. To do so, in my view, would be to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit who is always present with us, his purpose to fulfill.

1. The Holy Spirit Is a Helper Who Teaches and Reminds
In John 14:26 Jesus told his disciples, “the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you” (John 14:26).

2. The Holy Spirit Convicts the World of Sin. (John 16:7-8).

3. Holy Spirit Dwells in Believers and Fills Them (1 Corinthians 3:16)

4. Is a Source of Revelation, Wisdom, and Power (1 Corinthians 2:10-11).

5. The Holy Spirit Guides to All Truth, Including Knowledge of What Is to Come John 16:13

6. Attributes of the Holy Spirit such as wisdom, knowledge, and power are manifested in the lives of believers for the good of others. More gifts are listed in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11.

7. The Holy Spirit Is a Seal in the Lives of Believers. (Ephesians 1:13).

8. The Holy Spirit Helps in a Christian’s Weakness and Intercedes for Them
(Romans 8:26-27).

9. The Holy Spirit Makes Believers New and Gives Them Eternal Life. (Romans 8:10-11).

10. The Holy Spirit Sanctifies and Enables Believers to Bear Good Fruit in Their Lives (Galatians 5:22-25).

I would never ever dare deny the workings of the Holy Spirit however He manifests himself.
.

God love you my dear but that is NOT the Bible definition of blasphemy.

The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to reject the conviction of the Holy Spirit on your sin and the rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

When anyone does things that the Bible says they are not able to do, they that is someone who is make believing to be a believer.

The Bible says that tongues will cease. That means to END. To STOP. Now to do them because you want to is actually to do what you want to do and not what the Holy Spirit has already said ended.

1an · Dec 10, 2020

Major1 said:
God love you my dear but that is NOT the Bible definition of blasphemy.

The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is to reject the conviction of the Holy Spirit on your sin and the rejection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

When anyone does things that the Bible says they are not able to do, they that is someone who is make believing to be a believer.

The Bible says that tongues will cease. That means to END. To STOP. Now to do them because you want to is actually to do what you want to do and not what the Holy Spirit has already said ended.

Please remind me where the Bible says tongues will cease. This is probably in the New Jerusalem when everything is perfect. Not here on earth where everything is imperfect. Neither would I want to deny the Holy Spirit.
Thank you.
.

zoidar · Dec 10, 2020

Major1 said:
Are you then saying that "Another Spirit" would then be..........Demonic???

Yes!

zoidar · Dec 10, 2020

Major1 said:
Where ELSE would you see people speaking in a way that no one has any idea what they are saying?????

I meant most tongues aren't interpreted. I heard a guy in church speak a long verbiage (hope I use the right word) in tongues. Then he ended with an interpretation. I'm still not sure what to make of it. He said nothing that was wrong, yet ... If it was the Holy Spirit, fine. If it wasn't, then I'm sorry for him.

Major1 · Dec 10, 2020

zoidar said:
I meant most tongues aren't interpreted. I heard a guy in church speak a long verbiage (hope I use the right word) in tongues. Then he ended with an interpretation. I'm still not sure what to make of it. He said nothing that was wrong, yet ... If it was the Holy Spirit, fine. If it wasn't, then I'm sorry for him.

How caan gibberish be interpreted. ONLY languages can be interpreted brother.

Major1 · Dec 10, 2020

zoidar said:
Yes!

Now we are on the same page!!!!!!!

Major1 · Dec 10, 2020

1an said:
Please remind me where the Bible says tongues will cease. This is probably in the New Jerusalem when everything is perfect. Not here on earth where everything is imperfect. Neither would I want to deny the Holy Spirit.
Thank you.
.

1 Corinthians 13:8-9........
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

It can not in any way be New Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 13:10......
"but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

The PERFECT means COMPLETE. Notice that something is "Coming".

We GO TO the New Jerusalem, it does not come to us.

zoidar · Dec 10, 2020

Major1 said:
How caan gibberish be interpreted. ONLY languages can be interpreted brother.

What then about:

and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
— 1 Corinthians 12:10

1an · Dec 10, 2020

Major1 said:
1 Corinthians 13:8-9........
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part,

It can not in any way be New Jerusalem.

1 Corinthians 13:10......
"but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.

The PERFECT means COMPLETE. Notice that something is "Coming".

We GO TO the New Jerusalem, it does not come to us.

If not the New Jerusalem, then when the perfect man, that which is perfect, Jesus Christ comes to take us home.

1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never faileth - It accompanies to, and adorns us in, eternity; it prepares us for, and constitutes, heaven. But whether there be prophecies, they shall fail - When all things are fulfilled, and God is all in all. Whether there be tongues, they shall cease - One language shall prevail among all the inhabitants of heaven, and the low and imperfect languages of earth be forgotten. The knowledge likewise which we now so eagerly pursue, shall then vanish away - As starlight is lost in that of the midday sun, so our present knowledge in the light of eternity.

1 Corinthians 13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part - The wisest of men have here but short, narrow, imperfect conceptions, even of the things round about them, and much more of the deep things of God. And even the prophecies which men deliver from God are far from taking in the whole of future events, or of that wisdom and knowledge of God which is treasured up in the scripture revelation.
(John Wesley)

Major1 · Dec 11, 2020

1an said:
If not the New Jerusalem, then when the perfect man, that which is perfect, Jesus Christ comes to take us home.

1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never faileth - It accompanies to, and adorns us in, eternity; it prepares us for, and constitutes, heaven. But whether there be prophecies, they shall fail - When all things are fulfilled, and God is all in all. Whether there be tongues, they shall cease - One language shall prevail among all the inhabitants of heaven, and the low and imperfect languages of earth be forgotten. The knowledge likewise which we now so eagerly pursue, shall then vanish away - As starlight is lost in that of the midday sun, so our present knowledge in the light of eternity.

1 Corinthians 13:9
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part - The wisest of men have here but short, narrow, imperfect conceptions, even of the things round about them, and much more of the deep things of God. And even the prophecies which men deliver from God are far from taking in the whole of future events, or of that wisdom and knowledge of God which is treasured up in the scripture revelation.
(John Wesley)

No so. It can not be the Rapture. If you read the Revelation you can clearly see that After the Rapture there are billions of LOST people left on this earth. THEY are not saved, they are not glorified and they are not going home. That mean that the PERFECT can not be Jeus Christ coming to take us home because there will still be billion left.

Again, the Scriptures in 1 Corth. say that the PERFECT IS Come......NOT THAT WE ARE GOING ANYWHERE!!!

Now the Bible is either true....ALL of it or NONE of it.

Major1 · Dec 11, 2020

zoidar said:
What then about:

and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues.
— 1 Corinthians 12:10

There were many miracles in the Apostolic age as I have said over and over again.

"To Prophecy" means to declare or teach or instruct the will of Christ. In the LITERA Greek it mean to teach/preach and does not mean to foretell the future and has nothing to do with the "Word of Knowledge" seen in churchs today....or the idea, "God just told ME".

"The distinguishing of spirits" means to have the ability to distinguish false from what is the truth.

The word Tongues means "LANGUAGES" in the original Greek. Those are KNOWN languages.

English- French-Russian-Spanish- and so on. Is what you hear today in churches languages????

Now......When was the last time you heard anyone translate someone speaking in the tongues of today and what they translated was a VALID language instead of what someone simply made up.

Brother......I been at this a long time. I was taught to interpret TONGUES. Do you know what I was told when I was asked to interpret............
"Just tell the people what YOU think the person was wanting to say because no one is going to know anyway and if we say you are a man of God, they will believe you"

zoidar · Dec 11, 2020

Major1 said:
There were many miracles in the Apostolic age as I have said over and over again.

"To Prophecy" means to declare or teach or instruct the will of Christ. In the LITERA Greek it mean to teach/preach and does not mean to foretell the future and has nothing to do with the "Word of Knowledge" seen in churchs today....or the idea, "God just told ME".

"The distinguishing of spirits" means to have the ability to distinguish false from what is the truth.

The word Tongues means "LANGUAGES" in the original Greek. Those are KNOWN languages.

English- French-Russian-Spanish- and so on. Is what you hear today in churches languages????

Now......When was the last time you heard anyone translate someone speaking in the tongues of today and what they translated was a VALID language instead of what someone simply made up.

Actually it does happen today that people speak different languages than they know. This girl in church (not that far from where I live) started to sing and praise in Hebrew. She had no idea it was Hebrew, but it was recorded and checked, and it was indeed Hebrew.

Brother......I been at this a long time. I was taught to interpret TONGUES. Do you know what I was told when I was asked to interpret............
"Just tell the people what YOU think the person was wanting to say because no one is going to know anyway and if we say you are a man of God, they will believe you"

Sounds terrible a Christian would tell you such a thing...

Guojing · Dec 11, 2020

Major1 said:
Brother......I been at this a long time. I was taught to interpret TONGUES. Do you know what I was told when I was asked to interpret............
"Just tell the people what YOU think the person was wanting to say because no one is going to know anyway and if we say you are a man of God, they will believe you"

That is why tongues is such a popular gift to teach compared to healing, whether it is speaking or interpreting, its unverifiable.

1an · Dec 11, 2020

Major1 said:
No so. It can not be the Rapture. If you read the Revelation you can clearly see that After the Rapture there are billions of LOST people left on this earth. THEY are not saved, they are not glorified and they are not going home. That mean that the PERFECT can not be Jeus Christ coming to take us home because there will still be billion left.

Again, the Scriptures in 1 Corth. say that the PERFECT IS Come......NOT THAT WE ARE GOING ANYWHERE!!!

Now the Bible is either true....ALL of it or NONE of it.

The parable of the Ten Virgins tells us that those waiting for the COMING of the PERFECT one, half will be left behind.

When the perfect one COMES there will not be any need for the gifts.
.

1an · Dec 11, 2020

Major1 said:
There were many miracles in the Apostolic age as I have said over and over again.

"To Prophecy" means to declare or teach or instruct the will of Christ. In the LITERA Greek it mean to teach/preach and does not mean to foretell the future and has nothing to do with the "Word of Knowledge" seen in churchs today....or the idea, "God just told ME".

"The distinguishing of spirits" means to have the ability to distinguish false from what is the truth.

The word Tongues means "LANGUAGES" in the original Greek. Those are KNOWN languages.

English- French-Russian-Spanish- and so on. Is what you hear today in churches languages????

Now......When was the last time you heard anyone translate someone speaking in the tongues of today and what they translated was a VALID language instead of what someone simply made up.

Brother......I been at this a long time. I was taught to interpret TONGUES. Do you know what I was told when I was asked to interpret............
"Just tell the people what YOU think the person was wanting to say because no one is going to know anyway and if we say you are a man of God, they will believe you"

Those same CHRISTIAN false teachers who are waiting for the COMING of the PERFECT ONE may be among those who are left behind.
.

1an · Dec 11, 2020

Guojing said:
That is why tongues is such a popular gift to teach compared to healing, whether it is speaking or interpreting, its unverifiable.

That is why I never sought the gift of tongues, preferring instead to speak in my own language. Trouble is, even when people understand the words, they do not understand what is being said, or if they understand, they do not believe. There will be a lot of people not entering the Kingdom of Heaven. The question to ask is, "will I be among the sheep or the goats."
.

Guojing · Dec 11, 2020

1an said:
That is why I never sought the gift of tongues, preferring instead to speak in my own language. Trouble is, even when people understand the words, they do not understand what you are saying, or if they understand, they do not believe you. There will be a lot of people not entering the Kingdom of Heaven. The question I often ask myself is, "will I be among the sheep or the goats."
.

Well, if you consider Paul's letters to the Body of Christ, those who believed in the gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4) are sealed by the Holy Spirit on the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13)

So no worries, its not based on whether one believe the sign gifts has ended or not, this is a non-salvific issue.

1an · Dec 11, 2020

Guojing said:
Well, if you consider Paul's letters to the Body of Christ, those who believed in the gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4) are sealed by the Holy Spirit on the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13)

So no worries, its not based on whether one believe the sign gifts has ended or not, this is a non-salvific issue.

Would a "Christian" supposedly sealed with the Holy Spirit stoop to the level of making a false interpretation? If so, they need to examine themselves 2 Corinthians 13:5.
.

Guojing · Dec 12, 2020

1an said:
Would a "Christian" supposedly sealed with the Holy Spirit stoop to the level of making a false interpretation? If so, they need to examine themselves 2 Corinthians 13:5.
.

Interpretations, whether they are true or false, can be subjective. Just because you think it is false does not automatically make it so.

The blood of Christ covers sins like that.

Why have the Sign Gifts Ended

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