The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

Oseas · Nov 3, 2020

eclipsenow said:
Except that the word of God you claim to value so much never ever says to count a timetable like this and abuse God's word like this. In fact, Jesus says he will return like a thief, when everyone is full of self confidence and saying "Peace, peace" disaster will come upon them. To claim to know otherwise is the doctrine of demons. Do you understand?

Based in the Word of God, the source of the truth, on God's plan of six Days of creation and one Day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; II Pet. 3:8; Heb. 4:4) so MANKIND would go through six God Days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years already concluded).

The Word of God is the true source, the times God the Father has put in His own Power. The only truth is the expressed biblical Chronology.

In the fourth Day of God's plan to restoration all things-Acts 3:v.18-26-, I mean around two thousand years ago, evidently, our Lord JESUS said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.John 5:v.17. That said, it is obvious that a total of 6,000 years is already concluded plenly / fully, right?

In fact, today we are still in the beginning of FIRST century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day. You know that the Most High and Almighty God reserved previously exactly the current seventh Day for His rest, we are living in.
I state by the Word of the Most High God: JESUS is now sat in His throne, the Judgment Seat of Christ is already running, while the Most High and Almighty God is resting of His works.

That said, here goes Acts 3:v.18-24 - Remember: It was still the fourth Day
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all His prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. (combined with Hebrews 1:v.1-14)

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.

20 And God shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

21 Whom the heaven (the third heaven where JESUS is now) must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

eclipsenow · Nov 3, 2020

Oseas said:
Based in the Word of God, the source of the truth, on God's plan of six Days of creation and one Day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; II Pet. 3:8; Heb. 4:4) so MANKIND would go through six God Days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years already concluded).

And yet Jesus says he'll return like a thief, the apostles never mention this timetable in clear language, and every Millennial futurist that tries to 'discover' the 'timetable' in the bible forces 2 Peter to say things it never really said.

The use of 1000 in the Hebrew is often like the use of 'a gazillion' in English. It just means a lot, or the complete number of. It's more like saying "Let's earn a gazillion dollars!"

Check out psalm 50

I have no need of a bull from your stall
or of goats from your pens,
10 for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know every bird in the mountains,
and the insects in the fields are mine.
12 If I were hungry I would not tell you,
for the world is mine, and all that is in it.

It must read as 'gazillion' - a very big number. He owns every animal in the world and all the cattle on a gazillion hills - NOT every animal in the world and all the cattle on the first literal 1000 hills - what about the remaining 999,000!

1000 is NOT always literal. In fact, unless it is about counting out something like how many soldiers were going into a certain battle, the number 1000 is very rarely literal. It means a big all encompassing complete number. It means a very long time or very big amount.

And no where does the bible tell us to expect to know when the Lord will return - or how to multiply out Genesis 1 by 1000. No where. You're just reading what you want into it.

Oseas · Nov 3, 2020

eclipsenow said:
And yet Jesus says he'll return like a thief, the apostles never mention this timetable in clear language, and every Millennial futurist that tries to 'discover' the 'timetable' in the bible forces 2 Peter to say things it never really said.

The use of 1000 in the Hebrew is often like the use of 'a gazillion' in English. It just means a lot, or the complete number of. It's more like saying "Let's earn a gazillion dollars!"

Check out psalm 50

I have no need of a bull from your stall
or of goats from your pens,
10 for every animal of the forest is mine,
and the cattle on a thousand hills.
11 I know every bird in the mountains,
and the insects in the fields are mine.
12 If I were hungry I would not tell you,
for the world is mine, and all that is in it.

It must read as 'gazillion' - a very big number. He owns every animal in the world and all the cattle on a gazillion hills - NOT every animal in the world and all the cattle on the first literal 1000 hills - what about the remaining 999,000!

1000 is NOT always literal. In fact, unless it is about counting out something like how many soldiers were going into a certain battle, the number 1000 is very rarely literal. It means a big all encompassing complete number. It means a very long time or very big amount.

And no where does the bible tell us to expect to know when the Lord will return - or how to multiply out Genesis 1 by 1000. No where. You're just reading what you want into it.

In the fourth Day of God's plan to restoration all things-Acts 3:v.18-26 combined with Genesis 1-, I mean around two thousand years ago,evidently, our Lord JESUS said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.John 5:v.17. That said, it is obvious that a total of 6,000 years is already concluded plenly / fully, right?

In fact, today we are in the beginning of FIRST century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day. You know that the Most High and Almighty God reserved previously exactly the current seventh Day for His rest, we are living in.

I state by the Word of the Most High God: JESUS is now sat in His throne; the Judgment Seat of Christ is already running, while the Most High and Almighty God is resting of His works. By the way, JESUS left very very clear saying:
The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all Judgment unto the Son: The Father hath life in Himself,
so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself; And has given Him authority to execute Judgment also, because He is the Son of man.

1Yhessalonians 1:v.7-12
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be PUNISHED with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of His Power;

10 When He shall come to be glorified in His saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that Day. (The Day arrived)

11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:

12 That the name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be glorified in you, and ye in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen

1Thes. 5:v.4 - 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that Day should overtake you as a thief.

JESUS warned: There shall be signs: ...upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the
waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Oseas · Nov 3, 2020

eclipsenow said:
The abundance of your heart likes to add words to scripture. I wouldn't do that!

Oh no, it was not added words to Scripture, oh no, absolutely. I quoted Scripture - the words of JESUS -LITERALLY.

The Master said to the Pharisees: Matthew 12:v.33-37:
33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the Day of Judgment. (This Day arrived, that is the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium, the Millennium of Christ. 1Corinthians 6:v.2-3 - 2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? (By the way, 5 of the 7 angels of the Churches of Asia were reproved)

eclipsenow · Nov 4, 2020

Oseas said:
In the fourth Day of God's plan to restoration all things-Acts 3:v.18-26 combined with Genesis 1-,

Who said it was the fourth day? The fourth day is part of the creative theological poetic structure in Genesis 1 - and Acts 3 says NOTHING about the 'fourth day'.

18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’

24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

I mean around two thousand years ago,evidently, our Lord JESUS said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.John 5:v.17.

Click to expand...

Yes. Obviously.

That said, it is obvious that a total of 6,000 years is already concluded plenly / fully, right?

Try learning how to gather data and facts into a coherent argument, because you're just asserting stuff from other random stuff - and nothing has anything to do with anything. Imagine if I said "There's pink ice cream and white ice cream, therefore Donald Trump is going to win the election and destroy America!"

I mean, what on earth pal? Try and gather your thoughts before posting again.

In fact, today we are in the beginning of FIRST century of the seventh and last millennium,

Click to expand...

Oh, look at this - another assertion without any evidence.
How surprising.
Pink ice cream again!

Oseas · Nov 5, 2020

Oseas said:
In the fourth Day of God's plan to restoration all things-Acts 3:v.18-26 combined with Genesis 1-, I mean around two thousand years ago, evidently, our Lord JESUS said: My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.John 5:v.17.
That said, it is obvious that a total of 6,000 years is already concluded plenly / fully, right?

eclipsenow said:
Who said it was the fourth day? The fourth day is part of the creative theological poetic structure in Genesis 1 - and Acts 3 says NOTHING about the 'fourth day'.
18 But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. 19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord, 20 and that he may send the Messiah, who has been appointed for you—even Jesus. 21 Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets. 22 For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you. 23 Anyone who does not listen to him will be completely cut off from their people.’
24 “Indeed, beginning with Samuel, all the prophets who have spoken have foretold these days. 25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ 26 When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”

Friend, you said before in another post the Earth has 13,4 billion of years, WHAT IS NOT TRUE, but you believe in that foolish theory, and is unable to understand about the TRUE, and wonderful, and marvelous God's plan of RESTORATION of all things -Acts 3:v.18-26- as He - the Most High God - revealed to Moses after have past around 2,500 years or two Days and half of His works? Do not you know that from the rebellion and fall in the Garden of Eden, there was a gap of 500 years, and only after of this gap the Almighty God started to work in His wonderful plan of restoration of all things?

From the rebellion in Eden until Moses had past 2,500 years. But from the beginning of God's work, in His first Day according His plan, until Moses, had past 2,000 years, due a gap of 500 years as it is exposed above.

That said, notice that when the Almighty God revealed His works to Moses, many things had already made by God, as is described by Moses in the book of Genesis according God's revelation. Take in mind: From the rebellion in Eden until Moses had passed around 2,500 years, and from Moses until JESUS, passed around 1,500 years, completing or totaling around 4,000 years, that is the fourth Day.

Trough the Greater Light and the Lesser Light you can understand better the God's plan of restitution of all things. Among the stars think it is hard to find one that could explain these things for you in this present and current Dispensation.

By the way, as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searches all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God. 1Corinthians 2:v.9-11.

Oseas · Nov 5, 2020

eclipsenow said:
Try learning how to gather data and facts into a coherent argument, because you're just asserting stuff from other random stuff - and nothing has anything to do with anything.

What man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 1Corinthians 2:v.9-11. The natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God.

Oseas · Nov 5, 2020

eclipsenow said:
I mean, what on earth pal? Try and gather your thoughts before posting again. Imagine if I said "There's pink ice cream and white ice cream, therefore Donald Trump is going to win the election and destroy America!"

Oh! It is impressive. How did you know that? Had you seen this reading Revelation 6:v.3-4? winning or not the election?

Oseas · Nov 6, 2020

Based in the Word of God, the source of the truth, on God's six Days of creation and one Day of rest (a total of seven days) plus the Scriptures that teach that one Day is with the Lord as a thousand years (Psalm 90:4; II Pet. 3:8; Heb. 4:4) so MANKIND would go through six God Days of 1,000 years each (a total of 6,000 years already concluded) plus a Millennium of 1,000 years rest (now a total of 7,000 years).
According biblical Chronology, we can number our days, beginning in Genesis chapter 5, as follow::
Adam lived …........................................130 yrs and begat Seth
Seth lived ………………….....…...........105 yrs and begat Enosh;
Enosh lived .............................................90 yrs and begat Kenan;
Kenan lived..............................................70 yrs and begat Mahalalel;
Mahalalel lived ........................................65 yrs and begat Jared;
Jared lived ............................................162 yrs and begat Enoch;
Enoch lived .............................................65 yrs and begat Methuselah;
Methuselah lived...................................187 yrs and begat Lamech;
Lamech lived .........................................182 yrs and begat Noah;
From Noah´s birth until the Flood.......600 yrs.
Total yrs from Adam to the Flood = 1,656 yrs.
I work with the Word of God. Notice that the table above is proved by the Word of God,
It is not human theories or human speculations. Let us study the times until our days not
by human theories and speculations, but by the Word of God. So, see the table below:

PERIODS OF BIBLICAL TIMES ---------------------- DURATION
I - From Adam to the Flood-------------------------------1,656 years (as was showed above)
II - From the Flood to Abraham---------------------------.427 years
III - From Abraham to Exodus-----------------------------430 years - Galatians 3:17
IV - From Exodus to king Saul ---------------- -----------396 years
V - From Saul to the fall of Jerusalem ----------------.-508 years
VI - From the fall of Jerusalem to Jesus ------.--------587 years
Thus, from Adam to the 1st coming of Jesus ---- 4,004 years
From Jesus to our days (Christian Calendar)----. 2,020 years
Total from Adam to our days -------------------------- 6,024 years

Jesus -the Greater Light- came in the fourth Day or around 4,000 years after the beginning of creation. From JESUS (fourth Day) until our days, have passed more TWO DAYS or 2.000 years (one Day with the Lord is as a thousand years), totaling 6 complete Days or six complete millenniums, or around 6.000 years, more precisely 6,020 years, according Christian Calendar pointing the year 2.020. So, we have entered in the beginning of the first century of the seventh and last millennium, or seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, the Millennium of Christ, the Millennium of Truth, the Millennium of Judgment, the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Millennium of Vengeance. The world of Devil is already Judged and Condemned, and now, in this seventh and last millennium, it will be punished with strong punishments, there will be only and only punishments in this last Day, the Day of the Lord, King of kings and LORD of lords.

And God Father has already entered in His rest, as He had planned in the beginning of His works, but He is not sleeping, of course, Who is sleeping are the 10 virgins, they must awake urgent, JESUS have assumed since now the government of the Universe. JESUS is now sat on His Throne, the Judgment Seat of Christ, to Judge all nations, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not His gospel, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the Glory of His Power.

The kingdoms of THIS WORLD are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever. (Rev.11:15) verse 18 And the nations were (will be) angry, and God's wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and should DESTROY them which destroy the earth. It's it.

John 2:v.19-21
19 Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?

21 But he spake of the temple of his body. This is the only temple that will be built from now on. No other will be built.

eclipsenow · Dec 8, 2020

LUKE 13:32 for Keras
"31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you. 32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ 33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"

Even Futurist and Premillennial Warren Wiersbe said in his "The Bible Exposition Commentary, New Testament Volume 1 - 2001, page 227:-

"Our Lord was not afraid of danger. He followed a "divine timetable" and nothing could harm Him. He was doing the will of God according to the Father's schedule (see John 2:4, 7:30, 8:20, 13:1, 17:1). It had been decreed from eternity that the Son of God would be crucified in Jerusalem at the Passover ((1 Peter 1:20; Rev 13:8), and even Herod Antipas could not hinder the purposes of God. Quite the contrary, our Lord's enemies only helped fulfill the will of God (Acts 2:23; 3:13-18).

Overwriting this trip with some kind of eschatological timetable is just plain absurd! It's not even on the radar of what the text is about - even to another futurist scholar! If there is a timetable here, it' is about 3 days - not 2 - and that is a reference to Jonah in the whale - which is really the cross.

iamlamad · Dec 8, 2020

eclipsenow said:
LUKE 13:32 for Keras
"31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you. 32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ 33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"

Even Futurist and Premillennial Warren Wiersbe said in his "The Bible Exposition Commentary, New Testament Volume 1 - 2001, page 227:-

"Our Lord was not afraid of danger. He followed a "divine timetable" and nothing could harm Him. He was doing the will of God according to the Father's schedule (see John 2:4, 7:30, 8:20, 13:1, 17:1). It had been decreed from eternity that the Son of God would be crucified in Jerusalem at the Passover ((1 Peter 1:20; Rev 13:8), and even Herod Antipas could not hinder the purposes of God. Quite the contrary, our Lord's enemies only helped fulfill the will of God (Acts 2:23; 3:13-18).

Overwriting this trip with some kind of eschatological timetable is just plain absurd! It's not even on the radar of what the text is about - even to another futurist scholar! If there is a timetable here, it' is about 3 days - not 2 - and that is a reference to Jonah in the whale - which is really the cross.

I hope you are meaning after the cross, as in the grave. The time of John was the time Jesus was in the grave - His body - but "He" was in Hades, where John was for three days. They both spent three days. Jonah "cried out for help in the belly of Sheol..." He continued:
"I sank to the foundations of the mountains;
the earth with its prison bars closed behind me forever!
But You raised my life from the Pit, Lord my God!"

His body stayed in the belly of the fish, but Jonah went to sheol or hades.

eclipsenow · Dec 8, 2020

iamlamad said:
I hope you are meaning after the cross, as in the grave. The time of John was the time Jesus was in the grave - His body - but "He" was in Hades, where John was for three days. They both spent three days. Jonah "cried out for help in the belly of Sheol..." He continued:
"I sank to the foundations of the mountains;
the earth with its prison bars closed behind me forever!
But You raised my life from the Pit, Lord my God!"

His body stayed in the belly of the fish, but Jonah went to sheol or hades.

All I meant was Luke 13 was Jesus standing up to the 'threat' of Herod and that there was no end times hints here. If anything, Jesus 3 days brings to mind his other 'sign' - that of Jonah. That he's going to keep going until his gospel timetable is fulfilled - not some end times table Keras is incorrectly importing all over the text.

A discussion of the metaphysics of Jonah kind of misses the point - and I think you're reading too much into the Jonah story - and am not really interested in getting into that debate here.

The subject is Luke 13.
Not Jonah.

iamlamad · Dec 9, 2020

eclipsenow said:
All I meant was Luke 13 was Jesus standing up to the 'threat' of Herod and that there was no end times hints here. If anything, Jesus 3 days brings to mind his other 'sign' - that of Jonah. That he's going to keep going until his gospel timetable is fulfilled - not some end times table Keras is incorrectly importing all over the text.

A discussion of the metaphysics of Jonah kind of misses the point - and I think you're reading too much into the Jonah story - and am not really interested in getting into that debate here.

The subject is Luke 13.
Not Jonah.

Agreed: CERTAINLY not end times! The only way "end" enters in is it was only three days to the end of Jesus life on earth as a man.

keras · Dec 9, 2020

eclipsenow said:
LUKE 13:32 for Keras
"31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you. 32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ 33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"

Even Futurist and Premillennial Warren Wiersbe said in his "The Bible Exposition Commentary, New Testament Volume 1 - 2001, page 227:-

"Our Lord was not afraid of danger. He followed a "divine timetable" and nothing could harm Him. He was doing the will of God according to the Father's schedule (see John 2:4, 7:30, 8:20, 13:1, 17:1). It had been decreed from eternity that the Son of God would be crucified in Jerusalem at the Passover ((1 Peter 1:20; Rev 13:8), and even Herod Antipas could not hinder the purposes of God. Quite the contrary, our Lord's enemies only helped fulfill the will of God (Acts 2:23; 3:13-18).

Overwriting this trip with some kind of eschatological timetable is just plain absurd! It's not even on the radar of what the text is about - even to another futurist scholar! If there is a timetable here, it' is about 3 days - not 2 - and that is a reference to Jonah in the whale - which is really the cross.

In Luke 13:32-33, Jesus is not simply reiterating the same thing. He is prophesying in both verses; 33 says: on the third day I shall be perfected. But 34 says: and the next day, [the third] I shall meet my death.
Other translations of 33 say: I will gain My reward, or reach My goal.
So His being perfected, achieving His goal, or His reward, is quite different from His being killed and to conflate those two verses is error.

Re the commentators; Your quoting of their interpretations is a mistake on your part, as they cannot have known the truth of Bible Prophecy. Daniel 12:4-9 makes that clear.

eclipsenow · Dec 9, 2020

keras said:
In Luke 13:32-33, Jesus is not simply reiterating the same thing. He is prophesying in both verses; 33 says: on the third day I shall be perfected. But 34 says: and the next day, [the third] I shall meet my death.
Other translations of 33 say: I will gain My reward, or reach My goal.
So His being perfected, achieving His goal, or His reward, is quite different from His being killed and to conflate those two verses is error.

Huh? It's like you have not even read the verses you pretend to know more about than professional bible scholars.

Everything in red about Jesus death - from Herod's threat - to Jesus saying he has another agenda for his death entirely!

LUKE 13:32
"31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.

32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’

33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"

Herod wants to kill him.
But he reaches his goal on the 'third day' (Like Jonah.)
He must 'press on' today and tomorrow and the next day.' See? Not 2 days then rest - but 3 days of trial until it is all done. When is it done? When he dies at Jerusalem.

Seriously, it's not hard.

Unless of course someone approaches it with a ridiculous agenda to try and prove something completely alien to the text like you are.

Daniel 12:4-9 makes that clear.

You're just quoting stuff randomly now without actually demonstrating how one concept links to another. We're discussing Luke 13, and the only eschatological statement it has in this bit is Jesus death.

keras · Dec 9, 2020

eclipsenow said:
Huh? It's like you have not even read the verses you pretend to know more about than professional bible scholars.

Everything in red about Jesus death - from Herod's threat - to Jesus saying he has another agenda for his death entirely!

LUKE 13:32
"31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.

32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’

33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"

Herod wants to kill him.
But he reaches his goal on the 'third day' (Like Jonah.)
He must 'press on' today and tomorrow and the next day.' See? Not 2 days then rest - but 3 days of trial until it is all done. When is it done? When he dies at Jerusalem.

Seriously, it's not hard.

Unless of course someone approaches it with a ridiculous agenda to try and prove something completely alien to the text like you are.

You're just quoting stuff randomly now without actually demonstrating how one concept links to another. We're discussing Luke 13, and the only eschatological statement it has in this bit is Jesus death.

So is death a reward? Was Jesus; tortured and killed, His perfection?

I know there are Hebrew parallelisms, but Luke 13:32 and 33 are not parallel, they are about different times and events.
Your objections to this truth seem somewhat harsher than normal discussion and rebuttal. I do realize why you must do that, because the truth of the 2 'day'; 2000 year gap and the final 1000 year Millennium period, destroys your preterist belief.

I quoted Daniel 12:4-9 to show why we cannot rely on the interpretations of anyone prior to now.

eclipsenow · Dec 10, 2020

keras said:
So is death a reward? Was Jesus; tortured and killed, His perfection?

Which translation has rendered it as "reward"? I can't find one on Bible Hub.
Luke 13:32 But Jesus replied, "Go tell that fox, 'Look, I will keep driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach My goal.'
You're using a singular translation to warp the plain meaning of Jesus words.

I know there are Hebrew parallelisms, but Luke 13:32 and 33 are not parallel, they are about different times and events.

So you say but the text certainly doesn't!

Your objections to this truth seem somewhat harsher than normal discussion and rebuttal.

I've quoted bible scholars. What have you offered? Dodgy arguments straining at gnats that just are not in the text in the first place.

I do realize why you must do that, because the truth of the 2 'day'; 2000 year gap and the final 1000 year Millennium period, destroys your preterist belief.

Seriously? Ha ha ha - I'm forced to acknowledge that the whackiness you want to import over the text isn't there because the non-existent fluff you're adding into what really should just be plain text somehow threatens my theology? Dude - it's just not there. You're really straining. Admit it! :doh:

I quoted Daniel 12:4-9 to show why we cannot rely on the interpretations of anyone prior to now.

Part of Daniel 12 is a glimpse of heaven and the security God's new people will inherit there. But what is the mechanism and 'mystery' of Daniel 12? How does God do this? That's the mystery of Daniel 12 - and it is fulfilled and explained in the gospel events. How was God going to save a people for himself that would enjoy being with him forever - Daniel's future eschatology? Well, it was revealed by John himself!

But before we get to John, let's remember when Daniel said the scroll would be unsealed and the mystery revealed?

Daniel 12:4-9
New International Version
4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.” ... 9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.

Fine! The time of the end. That must be the end of the world, right? But what if that assumption is wrong? What if it's like rose tinted glasses futurists are putting on that somehow obscure what is on the page in front of them? Let's see how the New Testament talks about the times of the end.

Acts 2

14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: “Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say. 15 These people are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning! 16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 “‘In the last days, God says,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your young men will see visions,
your old men will dream dreams.

That is, it has been the last days since Pentecost 2000 years ago - as the Holy Spirit poured out on them helped them fulfil Acts 1:8 - and important part of Daniel's mystery and scroll.

Acts 1:8 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

The focus of the gospel mission now is to get out and reach all people - the people at home, the neighbours you don't like, and even the ends of the earth. But is there more evidence the gospel events lead to the last days?

Hebrews 1
1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

What other verses speak of the mystery sealed up in the scroll?

Ephesians 1:8
8... that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

But that is ambiguous - mystery = everything under Christ - but when? Is there more?

Ephesians 3
3 that is, the mystery made known to me by revelation, as I have already written briefly. 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

BOOM! There it is. Both Peter at Pentecost and Paul think there's this profound mystery in God's secret plan that is fulfilled in Jesus and explained as God's kingdom races across all the nations and cultures of the world. But wait, there's more!

Colossians 1
25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness— 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

The mystery was disclosed to Peter and Paul and all God's people over 2000 years ago - he's bringing in all the nations into his kingdom. So what does John say, through his 'comic-book superheroes' language of Revelation? (Aka apocalyptic symbolism). Does John agree that the scroll containing the mystery of God was opened in the gospel events?

This next chapter is REALLY going to make futurists reconsider their positions if they are honest enough to read what the symbolism says, especially in the context of Peter and Paul's explanations above!

Rev 5
6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”

Boom - there it is! Revelation is a gospel sermon explaining gospel events and the suffering we live under now. The scroll is the mystery of God from Daniel - the mystery as to how he was going to rescue a people for himself. Jesus died and rose again, purchasing a nation of God from a people who did not know God. The Holy Spirit was poured out on the apostles over 2000 years ago to springboard the gospel into the surrounding nations. Peter said that was the last days - Paul says that was the last days and mystery of God - and now John says that was the last days and the meaning of the scroll.

The gospel events open up all nations to belong to God. That's Daniel's seal - and has been understood as so for over 2000 years. And I am profoundly grateful, as I'm a white Australian grateful to be called into the Kingdom of God from a people who were not God's people.

Here endeth the lesson.

keras · Dec 10, 2020

eclipsenow said:
Here endeth the lesson.

Here ends my argument with you, as nothing I say has any effect on your fixed opinions.
Only as things come to pass, which could be quite soon given the convergence of signs and indications, will you finally understand.

I stand by the fact of Luke 13:32-33 describing two different time periods.
Jesus' reward is described in Daniel 7:13-14.

eclipsenow · Dec 10, 2020

keras said:
Here ends my argument with you, as nothing I say has any effect on your fixed opinions.

Nothing you say makes sense!

Luke 13 has nothing to do with eschatology - deal with it.

Only as things come to pass, which could be quite soon given the convergence of signs and indications, will you finally understand.

Do you know how smug that sounds with the absolute paucity of evidence you've put forth? Your whole timetable rests on a verse that actually, in the real world, has NOTHING to do with the end times. Nothing. It's Jesus travel plans, and it covers THREE DAYS of TRIALS - not two days then a reward. You haven't even shown this thread where you got the word 'reward' and which translation that came from. Be honest - did you just make it up?

I stand by the fact of Luke 13:32-33 describing two different time periods.

You're 'standing' by a verse that has absolutely ZERO reference to the end times or last day?
Pull the other one - it plays the Benny Hill tune. Once again, even Premil Warren Wiersbe said Luke 13 is all about God's gospel timetables, not his end times tables. Have we got it yet?

"Our Lord was not afraid of danger. He followed a "divine timetable" and nothing could harm Him. He was doing the will of God according to the Father's schedule (see John 2:4, 7:30, 8:20, 13:1, 17:1). It had been decreed from eternity that the Son of God would be crucified in Jerusalem at the Passover ((1 Peter 1:20; Rev 13:8), and even Herod Antipas could not hinder the purposes of God. Quite the contrary, our Lord's enemies only helped fulfill the will of God (Acts 2:23; 3:13-18).

Timtofly · Dec 10, 2020

eclipsenow said:
LUKE 13:32 for Keras
"31 At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you. 32 He replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will keep on driving out demons and healing people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ 33 In any case, I must press on today and tomorrow and the next day—for surely no prophet can die outside Jerusalem!"

Even Futurist and Premillennial Warren Wiersbe said in his "The Bible Exposition Commentary, New Testament Volume 1 - 2001, page 227:-

"Our Lord was not afraid of danger. He followed a "divine timetable" and nothing could harm Him. He was doing the will of God according to the Father's schedule (see John 2:4, 7:30, 8:20, 13:1, 17:1). It had been decreed from eternity that the Son of God would be crucified in Jerusalem at the Passover ((1 Peter 1:20; Rev 13:8), and even Herod Antipas could not hinder the purposes of God. Quite the contrary, our Lord's enemies only helped fulfill the will of God (Acts 2:23; 3:13-18).

Overwriting this trip with some kind of eschatological timetable is just plain absurd! It's not even on the radar of what the text is about - even to another futurist scholar! If there is a timetable here, it' is about 3 days - not 2 - and that is a reference to Jonah in the whale - which is really the cross.

The point was 3 days to get to Jerusalem. Today, 1. Tomorrow, 2. The day after Tomorrow, 3. 3 days in Jerusalem. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. Wednesday in the night (our Tuesday midnight) in the Garden. The Cross was after 3 pm, Wednesday. In the grave by 6pm. Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. Resurrection happens any time after Saturday 6pm, the start of Sunday. By 6am Jesus is met by Mary in the Garden. By noon, Jesus ascends to the alter in God's temple, with the firstfruits, all those in Abraham's bosom, freed from Satan’s death captivity. Jesus already back meeting with the 2 disciples on the road in a body that can now be touched and can eat food. Mark 16:12-13

12 "After that, Yeshua appeared in another form to two of them as they were walking into the country.
13 They went and told the others, but they didn’t believe them either."

The Second Coming is after 2 Lord's Day, then another earthly ministry where the church is complete and glorified and presented to God at the alter in God's temple. Then the separation of sheep and goats on the physical earth physically killed and transported by angels to eternal damnation, Death. Or eternal life, Revelation 20:4. Then the Thunders when the tares are burned up into Death, and the wheat is gathered to Revelation 20:4. Then the 7th Trumpet week of celebration Sunday to Sunday just like the final week of the Palm Sunday to Resurrection Sunday event. This time on Wednesday, Satan is granted 42 months splitting the week in half.

The 70th week of Daniel is the earthly ministry of Jesus. 3.5 years prior to the Cross, and 3.5 years prior to the 7th Trumpet. Except this soon coming 3.5 years keeps getting shorter and shorter each day. No one knows when the Second Coming starts. We do know it will be shortened so more elect can choose to be in Christ. Not physically saved, but the choice of receiving God’s Atonement. That election ends at the Second Coming. Then after the battle of Armageddon, the 3rd Lord's Day on earth. Jesus Christ is present the whole 1000 years.

The prophecy is for 2 days the church without Christ present would do the work. On the 3rd day Christ would finish the last 1000 years and then he would reach the goal of offering up the final kingdom with victory over Death. Death itself is introduced in the 4th Seal just prior to the Second Coming. Death is not even a reality until the 4th Seal is opened. Sin and death by sin in sheol, yes. The OT were not left in sheol after the Cross. There would be 2000 years of a church present on earth. Then right before the Second Coming, Death would be introduced as the tribulation "of those days". Similar tribulation faced by the church for the last 1990 years, but this time in weeks, not stretched out over decades. And this time death by wild beast, against the natural instinct of animals. Animals will willfully start attacking humanity.

The Day of the Lord is at Hand for all the Nations

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Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works

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