GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Gregory Thompson

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Good advice in this post Michael. Your point 2 was something I was not considering when I wrote the question in the OP but makes a lot of sense. For me as an example onions for most people are a healthy and tasty food but for me being allergic to them, my body does not tolerate them so I cannot eat them as they are like a poison. Thanks for sharing. Good points.

Glad to be of assistance.
 
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truthisfreedom2019

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GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Hi all,

thought this might be a good topic as I believe God as our creator knows what is good for our health and what is not good for us and that the health and dietary laws of the old covenant are written for our admonition and well being today. The question should also be considered can something that is clean yesterday be unclean today?

I have looked at most of the arguments here against God's dietary and health laws in relation to clean and unclean foods so this will be a thread to discuss these scriptures in details with application to context to see if they can really be used or not used to support or not support a for or against view of God's health and dietary laws.

For me I think COVID-19 is a good example why we cannot eat anything. Bats of course being UNCLEAN in the food laws given by God in Leviticus 11:13-19. The dietary laws for clean and unclean meats can be found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 for those interested.

For me, I cannot see any scripture in both the old and new testament that says that God's health and dietary laws have been abolished. God made us and knows what is good for our health and well being and if we break God's law and disobey His Word there are consequences like in the case of those eating their bat soup or stew giving us COVID-19 the started in China.

Some scriptures...

2 Corinthians 6:16, And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

19, What? KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you, which ye have of God, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN?

the health laws were given to God's people because we are the temple of God and he is the live in us.........

1 Corinthians 3:16, KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU? 17, IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

This includes sin from the heart (Matthew 15:18).

These are some of the dietary laws God has given his people...

Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only THOU SHALT NOT EAT THE BLOOD thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

Leviticus 19:26 Ye shall not eat anything with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

1 Samuel 14:34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and SIN NOT AGAINST THE LORD IN EATING WITH THE BLOOD. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

most meats unless kosher have the blood in it...

Leviticus 11:47 TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

We are not to eat unclean foods...

Deuteronomy 14:3-21
3, THOU SHALT NOT EAT ANY ABOMINABLE THING.
4, These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6, And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7, Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9, These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10, And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11, Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12, But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14, And every raven after his kind,
15, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19, And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20, But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21, Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Isaiah 65:2-8
2, I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walked in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3, A people that provoked me to anger continually to my face; that sacrifices in gardens, and burns incense upon altars of brick;

4, Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, WHICH EATS SWINES FLESH, and BROTH OF ABOMINABLE THINGS ARE IN THEIR VESSELS; 5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burns all the day. 6, Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, 7, Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8, Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all.

Isaiah 66:4-18
4, I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5, Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6, A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendersrecompence to his enemies.7, Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8, Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9, Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10, Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:11, That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.13, As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14, And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15, For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16, For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD. 18, For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory....

22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, NEITHER HAVE THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN <see Leviticus 11:47>, and have hid their eyes from my SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.

Those who have professed to follow God's laws in the past have always been in trouble for breaking God's laws.

What are your thoughts (please support your view by scripture and let's discuss)?

......................

Q1. Are Gods' health and dietary laws important for us today?
Q2. Is COVID-19 Gods' judgement for breaking His dietary laws?
Q3. Can a "CLEAN MEAT" become "UNCLEAN MEAT" today if so how?

Friendly discussion please.

God bless


Recent studies show that the DNA that makes up pigs and other unclean animals are very genetically similar to human DNA. YUK! No wonder God warned us that these animals are unclean/abominable.

This article was made by someone who uses some wording trying to support evolution but explains the findings of genetic similarity between pigs and humans: Pigs and Humans Share More Genetic Similarities Than Previously Believed
 
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chilehed

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What are your thoughts (please support your view by scripture and let's discuss)?
The next day, while they were on their way and nearing the city, Peter went up to the roof terrace to pray at about noontime. He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners. In it were all the earth’s four-legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. A voice said to him, “Get up, Peter. Slaughter and eat.” But Peter said, “Certainly not, sir. For never have I eaten anything profane and unclean.” The voice spoke to him again, a second time, “What God has made clean, you are not to call profane.” This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into the sky.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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The next day, while they were on their way and nearing the city, Peter went up to the roof terrace to pray at about noontime. He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners. In it were all the earth’s four-legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. A voice said to him, “Get up, Peter. Slaughter and eat.” But Peter said, “Certainly not, sir. For never have I eaten anything profane and unclean.” The voice spoke to him again, a second time, “What God has made clean, you are not to call profane.” This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into the sky.

Here you go, your a little late. Already addressed through the scriptures here linked...
 
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mmksparbud

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The next day, while they were on their way and nearing the city, Peter went up to the roof terrace to pray at about noontime. He saw heaven opened and something resembling a large sheet coming down, lowered to the ground by its four corners. In it were all the earth’s four-legged animals and reptiles and the birds of the sky. A voice said to him, “Get up, Peter. Slaughter and eat.” But Peter said, “Certainly not, sir. For never have I eaten anything profane and unclean.” The voice spoke to him again, a second time, “What God has made clean, you are not to call profane.” This happened three times, and then the object was taken up into the sky.


And??? That vison had not one single thing to do with actually eating unclean animals. Peter states exactly what it was about---which he at first did not know what the vision meant.

Act 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate,
Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.


Nowhere in this passage will you find that Peter says---of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of meats. This vision was all about people---Gentiles were not to be called unclean---they never had been to God, only to the Jews. God hated what they did, not them. God sent the Holy Spirit to those gentiles before they were baptized.
 
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Paulus59

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Should we really be eating this stuff? I kind of felt quite sad watching this one to be honest. :(

Are all things really now clean?
That is seriously sick. What sort of people are these?
 
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That is seriously sick. What sort of people are these?
This kind:

Php. 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
 
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Redwingfan9

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You haven't got consensus dear friend, especially in scripture so your premise is false to begin with. You are free to believe as you wish though. :)
That you may disagree does not mean there is not consensus between Papists, Orthodox and the Protestant churches. As previously indicated when those churches agree and have agreed for hundreds of years they're usually right. The trinity is a good example.
 
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LoveGodsWord

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That you may disagree does not mean there is not consensus between Papists, Orthodox and the Protestant churches. As previously indicated when those churches agree and have agreed for hundreds of years they're usually right. The trinity is a good example.
As posted earlier your premise is a false one. Your assuming they all agree. They do not.
 
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section9+1

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Noah was not a Jew. But he distinguished between clean and unclean animals just as God instructed.

Dogs, bats, rats and cats are not what God made for humans to it... according to God.

Lev 11 : 2 ‘These are the creatures which you may eat from -

43 Do not make yourselves detestable through any of the swarming things that swarm; and you shall not make yourselves unclean with them so that you become unclean. 44 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, because I am holy. And you shall not make yourselves unclean with any of the swarming things that swarm on the earth.

46 This is the law regarding the animal and the bird, and every living thing that moves in the waters and everything that swarms on the earth, 47 to make a distinction between the unclean and the clean, and between the edible creature and the creature which is not to be eaten.

Is 66:14
And the hand of the Lord will be made known to His servants,
But He will be indignant toward His enemies.

15 For behold, the Lord will come in fire,
And His chariots like the whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For the Lord will execute judgment by fire
And by His sword on humanity,

And those put to death by the Lord will be many.
17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go to the gardens,
Following one in the center,
Who eat pig’s flesh, detestable things, and mice,
Will come to an end altogether,” declares the Lord.

1 Cor 6
. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought for a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

1Cor 3
16 Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy that person; for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

So that addresses everything from being a drug addict, to eating poison, to eating a "2x4" as you mentioned.
That was Genesis 8. At the start of Genesis 9, God changed it. The Law of Moses was for Israel in the old testament. I have no problem with people eating whatever food they want for whatever reason. But the SDA's have a problem. The choose to watch what they eat which is OK but then they have to apply it to all the rest of us since if we can get away with it then what the heck are they doing? So they have to make it a condition for everyone.
 
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mindlight

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Q1. Are Gods' health and dietary laws important for us today?
Q2. Is COVID-19 Gods' judgement for breaking His dietary laws?
Q3. Can a "CLEAN MEAT" become "UNCLEAN MEAT" today if so how?

Friendly discussion please.

God bless

1. Clearly as I have argued on these forums for much of the time since covid started. Cleanliness, social distancing, how you cook food, what food you eat are all factors in disease prevention understood in Ancient Israel and clearly laid out in the law from the time of Moses.

2. Think it is more complex than that. The roots of this, were in one of the most godless cities in modern godless China, in a rather barbaric food eating practice there, which shows no understanding or respect for Gods laws. There is the self reliance of a secularised culture, that trusts in its own resources over those of God. We need these kinds of wake up calls occasionally. There was clearly some real bad evolutionary science, wafting around like a bad smell ,at the beginning of this Pandemic, with the talk of herd immunity and a contempt for the weak and vulnerable for instance. But note it is not the powerful and healthy that pay a price here , but rather the sick, the racial minorities, the poor and the vulnerable old. This Pandemic has instructed us to look out for these people once again and to value their lives also.

3. Everything is permitted but not everything is beneficial. The way we feed animals, the conditions in which they live, how they killed and how the meat is prepared are all disease factors and in many cases better care is needed. We do have total freedom in Christ but a mature Christian will learn what he can from the revealed wisdom of scriptures which has afterall stood the test of time and is as relevant today as ever.
 
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Redwingfan9

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As posted earlier your premise is a false one. Your assuming they all agree. They do not.
The papists eat pork, the Orthodox eat pork and all of the historic Protestants eat pork. You may be able to find one heretical anabaptist group or one random monk who won't eat pork but that does not represent the position of the church universal over 2000 years.

The Westminster Confession chapter 19 lays out the basic protestant position on these matters. I would also direct you to Acts 11:4-9 where God directs Peter to eat that which was unclean. Many commentators believe this was pork (which would have been a common food in southern Europe) but it could have been any of the ceremonially unclean foods from the Old Testament.
 
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GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Hi all,

thought this might be a good topic as I believe God as our creator knows what is good for our health and what is not good for us and that the health and dietary laws of the old covenant are written for our admonition and well being today. The question should also be considered can something that is clean yesterday be unclean today?

I have looked at most of the arguments here against God's dietary and health laws in relation to clean and unclean foods so this will be a thread to discuss these scriptures in details with application to context to see if they can really be used or not used to support or not support a for or against view of God's health and dietary laws.

For me I think COVID-19 is a good example why we cannot eat anything. Bats of course being UNCLEAN in the food laws given by God in Leviticus 11:13-19. The dietary laws for clean and unclean meats can be found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 for those interested.

For me, I cannot see any scripture in both the old and new testament that says that God's health and dietary laws have been abolished. God made us and knows what is good for our health and well being and if we break God's law and disobey His Word there are consequences like in the case of those eating their bat soup or stew giving us COVID-19 the started in China.

Some scriptures...

2 Corinthians 6:16, And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

19, What? KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you, which ye have of God, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN?

the health laws were given to God's people because we are the temple of God and he is the live in us.........

1 Corinthians 3:16, KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU? 17, IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

This includes sin from the heart (Matthew 15:18).

These are some of the dietary laws God has given his people...

Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only THOU SHALT NOT EAT THE BLOOD thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

Leviticus 19:26 Ye shall not eat anything with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

1 Samuel 14:34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and SIN NOT AGAINST THE LORD IN EATING WITH THE BLOOD. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

most meats unless kosher have the blood in it...

Leviticus 11:47 TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

We are not to eat unclean foods...

Deuteronomy 14:3-21
3, THOU SHALT NOT EAT ANY ABOMINABLE THING.
4, These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6, And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7, Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9, These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10, And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11, Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12, But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14, And every raven after his kind,
15, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19, And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20, But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21, Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Isaiah 65:2-8
2, I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walked in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3, A people that provoked me to anger continually to my face; that sacrifices in gardens, and burns incense upon altars of brick;

4, Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, WHICH EATS SWINES FLESH, and BROTH OF ABOMINABLE THINGS ARE IN THEIR VESSELS; 5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burns all the day. 6, Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, 7, Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8, Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all.

Isaiah 66:4-18
4, I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5, Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6, A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendersrecompence to his enemies.7, Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8, Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9, Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10, Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:11, That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.13, As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14, And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15, For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16, For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD. 18, For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory....

22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, NEITHER HAVE THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN <see Leviticus 11:47>, and have hid their eyes from my SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.

Those who have professed to follow God's laws in the past have always been in trouble for breaking God's laws.

What are your thoughts (please support your view by scripture and let's discuss)?

......................

Q1. Are Gods' health and dietary laws important for us today?
Q2. Is COVID-19 Gods' judgement for breaking His dietary laws?
Q3. Can a "CLEAN MEAT" become "UNCLEAN MEAT" today if so how?

Friendly discussion please.

God bless

there’s a long list of fish that have fins and scales that are deadly to eat.
 
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mindlight

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The papists eat pork, the Orthodox eat pork and all of the historic Protestants eat pork. You may be able to find one heretical anabaptist group or one random monk who won't eat pork but that does not represent the position of the church universal over 2000 years.

The Westminster Confession chapter 19 lays out the basic protestant position on these matters. I would also direct you to Acts 11:4-9 where God directs Peter to eat that which was unclean. Many commentators believe this was pork (which would have been a common food in southern Europe) but it could have been any of the ceremonially unclean foods from the Old Testament.

Everything is permitted but not everything is beneficial.
 
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Redwingfan9

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Everything is permitted but not everything is beneficial.
This is a matter of Christian liberty. If you want to eat pork then eat it, if you don't want to eat it then don't. What those who don't want to eat must not do is create a moral theology based around abstaining from certain meats. That's the fundamental problem with those who want to follow these laws, they demand all other Christians join them and in some cases take it so far as to suggest it's an issue of salvation. The fact is that eating pig, lobster or bat is a matter of Christian liberty, just like drinking alcohol.
 
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nolidad

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GOD'S DIETARY LAWS AND BAT SOUP STEW - COVID 19

Hi all,

thought this might be a good topic as I believe God as our creator knows what is good for our health and what is not good for us and that the health and dietary laws of the old covenant are written for our admonition and well being today. The question should also be considered can something that is clean yesterday be unclean today?

I have looked at most of the arguments here against God's dietary and health laws in relation to clean and unclean foods so this will be a thread to discuss these scriptures in details with application to context to see if they can really be used or not used to support or not support a for or against view of God's health and dietary laws.

For me I think COVID-19 is a good example why we cannot eat anything. Bats of course being UNCLEAN in the food laws given by God in Leviticus 11:13-19. The dietary laws for clean and unclean meats can be found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14 for those interested.

For me, I cannot see any scripture in both the old and new testament that says that God's health and dietary laws have been abolished. God made us and knows what is good for our health and well being and if we break God's law and disobey His Word there are consequences like in the case of those eating their bat soup or stew giving us COVID-19 the started in China.

Some scriptures...

2 Corinthians 6:16, And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? FOR YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

19, What? KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY GHOST which is in you, which ye have of God, and YOU ARE NOT YOUR OWN?

the health laws were given to God's people because we are the temple of God and he is the live in us.........

1 Corinthians 3:16, KNOW YOU NOT THAT YOU ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and that the SPIRIT OF GOD DWELLS IN YOU? 17, IF ANY MAN DEFILES THE TEMPLE OF GOD, HIM SHALL GOD DESTROY; FOR THE TEMPLE OF GOD IS HOLY, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.

This includes sin from the heart (Matthew 15:18).

These are some of the dietary laws God has given his people...

Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

Deuteronomy 15:23 Only THOU SHALT NOT EAT THE BLOOD thereof; thou shalt pour it upon the ground as water.

Leviticus 19:26 Ye shall not eat anything with the blood: neither shall ye use enchantment, nor observe times.

1 Samuel 14:34 And Saul said, Disperse yourselves among the people, and say unto them, Bring me hither every man his ox, and every man his sheep, and slay them here, and eat; and SIN NOT AGAINST THE LORD IN EATING WITH THE BLOOD. And all the people brought every man his ox with him that night, and slew them there.

most meats unless kosher have the blood in it...

Leviticus 11:47 TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

We are not to eat unclean foods...

Deuteronomy 14:3-21
3, THOU SHALT NOT EAT ANY ABOMINABLE THING.
4, These are the beasts which ye shall eat: the ox, the sheep, and the goat,
5, The hart, and the roebuck, and the fallow deer, and the wild goat, and the pygarg, and the wild ox, and the chamois.
6, And every beast that parteth the hoof, and cleaveth the cleft into two claws, and cheweth the cud among the beasts, that ye shall eat.
7, Nevertheless these ye shall not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the cloven hoof; as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof; therefore they are unclean unto you.
8, And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.
9, These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat:
10, And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you.
11, Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
12, But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
13, And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
14, And every raven after his kind,
15, And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
16, The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
17, And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
18, And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
19, And every creeping thing that flieth is unclean unto you: they shall not be eaten.
20, But of all clean fowls ye may eat.
21, Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk.

Isaiah 65:2-8
2, I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walked in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts; 3, A people that provoked me to anger continually to my face; that sacrifices in gardens, and burns incense upon altars of brick;

4, Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, WHICH EATS SWINES FLESH, and BROTH OF ABOMINABLE THINGS ARE IN THEIR VESSELS; 5, Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burns all the day. 6, Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, 7, Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

8, Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sake, that I may not destroy them all.

Isaiah 66:4-18
4, I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not. 5, Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed. 6, A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendersrecompence to his enemies.7, Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. 8, Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. 9, Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God. 10, Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:11, That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory. 12, For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.13, As one whom his mother comforts, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem. 14, And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies. 15, For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16, For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. 17, They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINES FLESH, and THE ABOMINATION, AND THE MOUSE, SHALL BE CONSUMED TOGETHER, SAYS THE LORD. 18, For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory....

22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. 24, And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Ezekiel 22:26 Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, NEITHER HAVE THEY MADE A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CLEAN AND THE UNCLEAN <see Leviticus 11:47>, and have hid their eyes from my SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.

Those who have professed to follow God's laws in the past have always been in trouble for breaking God's laws.

What are your thoughts (please support your view by scripture and let's discuss)?

......................

Q1. Are Gods' health and dietary laws important for us today?
Q2. Is COVID-19 Gods' judgement for breaking His dietary laws?
Q3. Can a "CLEAN MEAT" become "UNCLEAN MEAT" today if so how?

Friendly discussion please.

God bless

The dietary laws were for Israel as a people!
Jesus said nothing that goes into a person makes them unclean.

Covid was not spread by bat soup!
 
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Bruce Leiter

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Hi Bruce, welcome and thanks for sharing your view. I do not believe it is biblical however as JESUS and Paul never taught that all foods are now clean. This has been addressed in detail through the scriptures post # 37 linked linked above. In that post I did not address Romans 14 so let's discuss that one here...

ROMANS 14:2,3,5,6,14,17,20

The New Testament writers referred to two concepts of unclean, using different Greek words to convey the two meanings. Unclean could refer to animals God did not intend to be consumed as food (listed in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14). Unclean could also refer to ceremonial uncleanness.

In Romans 14 Paul uses the word koinos, which means “common” (W.E. Vine, Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words, 1985, “Unclean,” p. 649). In addition to the meanings of “common” and “ordinary” (see Acts 2:44; Acts 4:32; Titus 1:4; Hebrews 10:29), the word also applied to things considered polluted or defiled. This word, along with its verb form koinoo, is used in Mark 7:2, Mark 7:15-23, where it obviously refers to ceremonial uncleanness.

Koinos and koinoo appear throughout the New Testament to refer to this kind of ceremonial uncleanness. Something could be “common”—ceremonially unclean—even though it was otherwise considered a scripturally clean meat.

An entirely different word, akathartos, is used in the New Testament for those animals Scripture specifies as unclean. Both words, koinos and akathartos, are used in Acts 10, where Peter distinguished between the two concepts of uncleanness by using both words in Acts 10:14.

When Paul said in Romans 14:14 that “I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean [ koinos, or ‘common’] of itself,” he was making the same point he had made earlier to the Corinthians: Just because meat that was otherwise lawful to eat may have been associated with idol worship does not mean it is no longer fit for human consumption. As seen from the context, Paul wasn’t discussing biblical dietary restrictions at all.

Paul goes on to state in Romans 14:20 that “all food is clean” (NIV). The word translated “clean” is katharos, meaning “free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless” (Vine, “Clean, Cleanness, Cleanse, Cleansing,” p. 103).

“Clean” meats as such aren’t addressed in the New Testament, so there isn’t a specific word to describe them. Katharos is used to describe all kinds of cleanliness and purity, including clean dishes (Matthew 23:26), people (John 13:10) and clothing (Revelation 15:6; Revelation 19:8-14), “pure” religion (James 1:27), gold and glass (Revelation 21:18).

Realize also that, in both Romans 14:14 and Romans 14:20, the word food or meat doesn’t appear in the original Greek, but was inserted by later translators. No specific object is mentioned relative to cleanness or uncleanness. The sense of these verses is merely that “nothing [is] unclean [ koinos: common or ceremonially defiled] of itself,” and “all is clean [ katharos: free from impure admixture, without blemish, spotless].”

Paul’s point is that association of food with idolatrous activity had no bearing on whether the food was inherently suitable or unsuitable for eating. Understood in its context, Romans 14 does not convey permission to ignore the biblical laws as to which meats are clean or unclean.

Hope this is helpful and thanks for sharing Bruce

Jesus, according to inspired Mark, declared all foods ceremonially clean in the following passage: Now when the Pharisees gathered together to him, with some of the scribes, who had come from Jerusalem, they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands defiled, that is, unwashed…. And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with hands defiled?”…. And he called the people to him again, and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him…. Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:1-5, 14-19; RSV)

Another clear passage of Paul is:
(1) Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, (2) speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron, (3) forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. (4) For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; (5) for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Here the Apostle Paul, who used to be a strict Pharisee, teaches us that as we pray for God's blessing on our food, "every creature of God is good" for eating.
 
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