Null/ please delete

Agallagher said:

Did you know Jesus only had 3 years to preach his Gospel and he needed to concentrate his efforts on teaching the Jews. ... His statement about being sent only to the lost sheep of Israel was because God's plan was to start his Church with the “Jews first,” and then bring in the gentiles.


Did you know while he was walking around he preached to the Jews, and gave commandments even to present a gift offering like that of Moses to the temple because it was under the law to do so.

So before Jesus Christ had died, the law was still intact?

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Those who heard Jesus and His new commands were obligated to follow His new commands and not the Old Covenant commands. Those who did not hear Jesus yet were obligated to continue in what they knew under the Old Covenant. For to whom much is given, much is required. Anyways, back in Christ's earthly ministry: If a Jew believed in Jesus but if they did not follow what Jesus said (i.e. they rejected in obeying His NEW covenant commands), in effect, they would be technically truly not believing in Jesus the correct way). The apostle John warned of gnostic believers who thought sin was an illusion and or it did not exist for them (1 John 1:8). Reminds me of a lot of what is going on today. Many say they believe in Jesus, but they do not believe in the necessity of obeying the words of Jesus. They think they can commit mortal sin as a way of life and still be saved. In fact, they think they must always commit mortal sin this side of Heaven and yet they will still be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus. But there are many warnings in the Bible against this false belief (that is so obviously wrong by a normal and plain reading of Scripture) (See: Matthew 7:21, Matthew 7:23, Matthew 7:26-27, Matthew 13:41-42) (Luke 6:46) (Luke 9:62). But men like to go by their experience over what the Word of God says. But faith comes not by looking at one's experience, but faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Men also prefer the pleasure of their sin (i.e. mortal sin). But Moses suffered affliction with the people of God rather enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season (i.e. mortal sin for a season).

“By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;” (Hebrews 11:24-25).


Side Note:

I talk about mortal sin in this context of this post because we are not allowed to promote Sinless Perfection in this section of the forums.

Agallagher said:

Did you know Jesus only had 3 years to preach his Gospel and he needed to concentrate his efforts on teaching the Jews. ... His statement about being sent only to the lost sheep of Israel was because God's plan was to start his Church with the “Jews first,” and then bring in the gentiles.


Did you know while he was walking around he preached to the Jews, and gave commandments even to present a gift offering like that of Moses to the temple because it was under the law to do so.

So before Jesus Christ had died, the law was still intact?

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While there is a command by Jesus in Matthew 5:23-24 that deals with an animal sacrifice (that no longer applies after the cross), Jesus was primarily teaching New Covenant teachings and not Old Covenant teachings during His earthly ministry. For Jesus was making changes to the Old Law (even before the New Covenant went officially into effect with His death).

How so?

Here is a list which shows that...

Jesus clearly was making changes to the Old Law (even before the cross):
(Which means He was not teaching primarily Old Covenant, but New Covenant):

The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth"
(Matthew 5:38 cf. Exodus 21:23-25).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." (Matthew 5:39).


The Old Way says:
"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment" (Matthew 5:21 cf. Numbers 35:30-32).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Matthew 5:22).


The Old Way says:
"Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:" (Matthew 5:34 cf. Numbers 30:1-2, Deuteronomy 23:21).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
34 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil." (Matthew 5:34-37).


The Old Way says:
"And of thy mercy cut off mine enemies, and destroy all them that afflict my soul: for I am thy servant." (Psalms 143:12).

"And the city shall be accursed, even it, and all that are therein, to the LORD: only Rahab the harlot shall live, she and all that are with her in the house, because she hid the messengers that we sent." (Joshua 6:17).

"And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." (Joshua 6:21).

16 "But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 20:16-17).

"They did not destroy the nations, concerning whom the LORD commanded them" (Psalms 106:34).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" (Matthew 5:44).

Note: Yes, I am aware that the Old Way (Old Testament) also teaches to love one's enemies (Exodus 23:4-5) (Proverbs 25:21), but this was in context to their own Israelite people, and not pagan nations. Pagan nations were to be destroyed when God commanded the Israelites to destroy them. But Jesus taught a radically different way. Love your enemies, and do good to them that hate you, and to pray for those who persecute you.


The Old Way says:
20 "But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the harlot in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
22 If a man be found lying with a woman married to an husband, then they shall both of them die, both the man that lay with the woman, and the woman: so shalt thou put away evil from Israel." (Deuteronomy 22:20-22).

4 "They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?" (John 8:4-5).

The New Way (by Jesus) says:
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. " (John 8:7).


Even after the cross, there were changes being made:

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:
"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
(Galatians 5:2).


The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because again, Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law."
(Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
(John 1:17).

Jesus said,
"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17).


Side Note:

Oh, and a lot of people take Matthew 5:17 as meaning that the Old Law is still in effect. But this is not what Jesus was saying. Jesus was referring to how He did not come to destroy the Old Law altogether (Meaning, no aspect of the 613 Laws of Moses will exist any more in any kind of way), but Jesus came to fulfill the OT Law with the bringing in of the New Covenant commands that are far superior (because it not only repeats the Moral Law of the OT but it also improves upon it, as well).

Agallagher said:

Hi Xarto, what do you believe Jesus meant when had said that about completing them?

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That he was the fulfillment of the prophecies, he is the promised Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for.

Xarto said:

That he was the fulfillment of the prophecies, he is the promised Messiah that the Jews had been waiting for.

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He also did no will of His own , but only the will of the Father, thus reversing what Adam and Eve had done in putting their own will first against the Law of God which means God's will before man's.

Agallagher said:

Tim, what was the will of the Father in Christ Jesus?

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That He teach the Gospel/good news of the Kingdom/governance of God and even die in order for it to be fulfilled. He set the example by doing no will of His own.

Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

chad kincham said:

...Those who aren’t yet redeemed are indeed under the law of Moses, but not Christians.

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So, does that mean that it is then ok to murder?

Anyway, I think righteous disciples of Jesus are not under the law, because they don’t obey the law to earn something. The obey the law, because they understand it is good and they love God.

Agallagher said:

Could we say this is also the will of the Father in Christ Jesus too?

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That takes it down a notch or two but as long as all the rules follow the will of God and not man, they shouldn't be to confusing or cluttered up with man's love of rules. Simpler to have said love all as self but that would have been a short letter. lol

Believers can talk about fulfilling the will of God. But are they really for doing that? We learn in Matthew 7:23 that certain believers held to the view that they did wonderful works in His name, but the problem is that they also worked iniquity or sin, too. This is why Jesus told them to depart from Him. They did not do what Jesus said, and thus they were like fools who built their house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27). For when I talk with certain Christians today, they give me the impression that they are justifying sin. Did Jesus ever justify sin? Did not Paul say we have the mind of Christ? (1 Corinthians 2:16).

Jesus no doubt fulfilled the OT Law and nailed it to the cross, but that does not mean we are not obligated to follow the commands in the New Covenant as a part of God's plan of salvation. 1 John 3:23 says that to believe in Jesus is a commandment. So it's a grace command. Acting upon this command brings salvation. But obedience and or God's laws gets a dirty name in Christianity today when it is referred to in the context of salvation. Sure, believers believe in doing some good works and doing His will sometimes, but they do not believe they can always refuse in doing mortal sin in this life. Thus in this case, doing the will of God is only mirage or an illusion. Thus in this case, one is not fully surrendered to meeting the bare minimum requirements of living holy unto the Lord. For many today say they can either abide in unconfessed mortal sins like lying or looking upon a woman in lust and die in such a sin and still be saved. Thus, the commands of Jesus and the warnings that are attached to them in not keeping them are nullified. His words will go unbelieved by those who are supposed to be following Him.

Proof?

Do you believe Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, Luke 10:25-28, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 2:3-4, 1 John 3:10, 1 John 3:15, Revelation 21:8, and Revelation 22:14-15?

Side Note:

Revelation 22:14-15 is altered in Modern Translations. So if you click on the above link for Revelation 22:14-15, it will give you the incorrect wording for this verse. In the KJB, Revelation 22:14-15 correctly says,

“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:14-15) (KJB).

In other words, God's laws in the New Testament (primarily) have not been abrogated in regards to our salvation. Only the Old Testament Law of Moses (the 613 Laws of Moses given to Israel) has been abrogated or done away with. One has to rightly divide the Word of truth and see which New Testament (NT) Laws still apply today. I would say that 99% of the laws we see in the New Testament still are applicable to us today. But OT Law (the 613) as a whole or package deal has been abrogated or done away with (Note: This would not be individual laws which are repeated in the NT and neither would this be the moral laws, either - like inappropriate behavior with animals).

Agallagher said:

Biblehighlighter, the only one that is even remotely getting us close to God is our faith. (Even if someone doesn't know Jesus as the name of the Son of God), The faith in the Creator is enough for them to gain access to the spirit inside of them. Which in turn will grieve them when they have caused hatred towards another person, or been mean to them.

That is really what it boils down to when it comes to loving God, and loving neighbur as self.

Do we do this perfectly like the Lord Jesus Christ? No we do not. Some people can come across in our life will annoy us, some times work can be overbearing and stressful and cause a person to have a bad mood (i been there) and take it out towards others because of the self being inflicted with more than what it really wants to do opposed to the spirit which can make us humble, and also try to reconcile with the ones that seen our mood.

This is why it's important to remember that God always looks at the heart, where man trys to judge by the outside apperence of man.

All I know is that the work of God is to love.

And I believe 1 Thess 5 covers some of love compared to 1 Corinthians 13; with rendering no evil to no man, not paying back others in evil manners, try to be patient with everyone.

Are these things possible, yes of course, always ? No sometimes we are gonna be in a bad mood and our heart will be on ourself.

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Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Everything in your Bible is the Word of God and is a part of our faith. You have to have faith not only in Jesus, but you have to have faith in what He told us to do. Jesus agreed with the lawyer in Luke 10:25-28 that to love God (including certain details) and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life. Adam just did one sin and it was enough to cause the fall of all mankind. He was tempted by Eve and fell for it. Eve was tempted by the devil that she could disobey God's command and not die. This is the same lie that the devil is pushing today (successfully) in many churches today.

Jesus says,


In fact, the following command of Jesus is one which gets ignored a lot today.


For many think that the path is easy and wide by the kind of belief that they promote. Many believers today do not think they have to STRIVE to enter in at the strait gate. Do you believe that you must STRIVE to enter in at the straight gate? If so, how does your belief line up with such a statement?

Jesus said,
“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46).

Bible Highlighter said:

I would say that 99% of the laws we see in the New Testament still are applicable to us today. But OT Law (the 613) as a ot and whole or package deal has been abrogated or done away with

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Simpler to say put the will of God before the will of man thus loving all as self. It covers all the laws both OT and NT

timothyu said:

Simpler to say put the will of God before the will of man thus loving all as self. It covers all the laws both OT and NT

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Well, first, loving your neighbor fulfills the OLD Law (that is no longer really applicable), and not the New Law (See: Romans 13:8-10). Second, just referring to the will of God generically, and loving all as oneself can be taken to mean lots of different things to different people. Someone may think that handing out baked chocolate chip cookies for people is the will of God or loving others as oneself. Another may think that they need to join politics and change laws in favor more to God's laws in order to be in the will of God and to love others as oneself. Another may think they have to end world hunger in order to be in the will of God.

I believe we must seek to keep the two greatest commandments (of which the full detailed version of the first greatest command is given to us in Mark 12:29-31). Why? Because Jesus taught it.

Three, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). The question is: Which commands? The OT commands? The NT commands? The two greatest commandments only? Paul said that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37). A good majority of the New Testament was written by Paul. So there are many New Testament commands which must be followed in the pages of the New Testament. So far according to my study, I have counted about 400 or so. But my point here is that we cannot go off our own thoughts of what we think God wants us to do. We have to align our lives with His commandments (i.e. NT Commands). A new covenant has surely been made. So this means we have to obey the commands from Jesus and His followers in the New Testament.

Agallagher said:

Bible, I understand what you are saying and that is confirmed in the comment made to tim below. That scripture in context, was professed pharisees believers in God but they looked at Jesus or their neighbor as less than.

1 Samuel 16:7

So though we can not judge them as for God is the judge, we are to look at even an unbeliever as higher than ourselves.

Jesus said this to the pharisees to get them to question themselves on what they are believing is true. Did they really believe and trust on God or did they trust in themselves to make it through unto rightousness.

They probably saw the rightousness of Jesus and hated it, so they decided on ways to kill him.

Though I wonder if during after the time of the death of Jesus, was their a change in some of the pharisees that questioned him that days heart afterward and they repented and placed their trust on God. Instead of Man.



Tim, You are right that is a simpler way to say it though we being on the forums can share the scriptures that can help brothers/sisters that may peek in or seekers and see what others are saying.

Thank you both for your nice comments and discussion Have a blessed night

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I am not sure you understand what I am really saying. Jesus said in Matthew 13:41-42 that the Son of Man (i.e. JESUS) is going to send forth His angels and they are going to gather out of HIS KINGDOM all things that offend (i.e. anything that makes others to stumble into sin like false beliefs that justify sin), and anyone who works iniquity and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire). This means that there are going to be those who profess to be in His Kingdom are going to be later cast out at the judgment because they justified sin in some way. That's pretty scary stuff and whenever I mention this to most Christians, it's like I am talking to a wall. They don't read this passage for themselves and or accept it. It's because they don't want to. They just eat up whatever comforting message they learned at their church, and they do not really seek out what the Bible is plainly saying.

Agallagher said:

Bible, I understand what you are saying and that is confirmed in the comment made to tim below. That scripture in context, was professed pharisees believers in God but they looked at Jesus or their neighbor as less than.

1 Samuel 16:7

So though we can not judge them as for God is the judge, we are to look at even an unbeliever as higher than ourselves.

Jesus said this to the pharisees to get them to question themselves on what they are believing is true. Did they really believe and trust on God or did they trust in themselves to make it through unto rightousness.

They probably saw the rightousness of Jesus and hated it, so they decided on ways to kill him.

Though I wonder if during after the time of the death of Jesus, was their a change in some of the pharisees that questioned him that days heart afterward and they repented and placed their trust on God. Instead of Man.



Tim, You are right that is a simpler way to say it though we being on the forums can share the scriptures that can help brothers/sisters that may peek in or seekers and see what others are saying.

Thank you both for your nice comments and discussion Have a blessed night

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“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” (Matthew 13:41-42).