Are there sincere seekers in hell?

Maria Billingsley

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Are there sincere seekers that would believe if they had convincing evidence for the Christian god? My thought is that God says:

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 1 Tim 2:1-7 ESV.

and:

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Mat 7:7-12 NIV

If these are true, why would God allow a person to not believe if they would believe if they just had convincing evidence and are asking for that evidence? I was one of those people when I was questioning my faith. Why did God not give me or many others the evidence they required to believe. All I was looking for was that evidence and I would have stayed a Christian. Why did God not provide it if the above verses are true?
Did you actually ask, seek and knock on the door?
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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So your goal in this thread is to make the point that the Bible is not true and that the God of the Bible does not exist?
No, the point is that I want to know what Christians think about this issue. Your answer is it is my fault somehow. Ok, I would like to know others people opinions as well. If there are sincere seekers that die without knowing God exists I do think that refutes at least what those verses I quoted say.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Did you actually ask, seek and knock on the door?
I don't know exactly what you mean but I did seek sincerely and I still sincerely want to know if God exists. After years of study I remain unconvinced.

Why would God let a Christian for 18 years lose their faith because they became unconvinced when God should know what would convince me?
 
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Kenny'sID

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I think you misunderstood my post. I am asking why some sincere seekers who only need convincing evidence for Gods existence do not get that evidence. I am asking about this life not the next.

The evidence is clearly there because so many get it. The seeker chooses to be convinced or not to be convinced..

What evidence do these seekers need? What evidence do you need?
 
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Halbhh

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Are there sincere seekers that would believe if they had convincing evidence for the Christian god? My thought is that God says:

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 1 Tim 2:1-7 ESV.

and:

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets. Mat 7:7-12 NIV

If these are true, why would God allow a person to not believe if they would believe if they just had convincing evidence and are asking for that evidence? I was one of those people when I was questioning my faith. Why did God not give me or many others the evidence they required to believe. All I was looking for was that evidence and I would have stayed a Christian. Why did God not provide it if the above verses are true?

Romans 10:17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

A sincere seeker will listen to Christ's words with all of their heart.

Not in a quick way, to read and get done... -- not that way.

But instead to listen in a full way -- hoping to hear and understand -- meditating/thinking on each thing He says. Thinking on His words day by day.

That's sincere seeking.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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The evidence is clearly there because so many get it.
And most people don't. That is not good evidence. The popularity of something does not mean it is true.

The seeker chooses to be convinced or not to be convinced..
They can choose to seek or not. But they cannot choose to be convinced or not. That happens as a result of the evidence they get while seeking.

What evidence do these seekers need? What evidence do you need?
Evidence that convinces me. How can I know what evidence is out there that might convince me that I have not encountered yet? I do know that the evidence I have encountered is not convincing for me. Wouldn't Go know what evidence would convince me?
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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You won’t know that for sure until your dead.
I know that the bible is in contradiction to my experience now. It says if you seek you will find. That was not true for me so I know that those verses are untrue.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Halbhh

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I know that the bible is in contradiction to my experience now. It says if you seek you will find. That was not true for me so I know that those verses are untrue.

Didn’t say when you will find.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Maria Billingsley

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I don't know exactly what you mean but I did seek sincerely and I still sincerely want to know if God exists. After years of study I remain unconvinced.

Why would God let a Christian for 18 years lose their faith because they became unconvinced when God should know what would convince me?
What convinced you 18 years ago?
 
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Halbhh

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I did sincerely and humbly seek God.

Well, if you would like, I could say something I noticed -- I've had years to think about this -- that you've of course used past tense. ... But maybe first instead is something that I noticed looking back at my own path: I read for years -- and also worked on doing what Christ said for years -- before I finally prayed to be brought to God. -- That prayer was a real leap of faith -- So, I don't know what it would have been like if I had just tried early on to seek God (I grew up attending some churches, then became a non-believer for about 25 years, and then began doing things Christ said to do just for personal gain) . It was only after years of frankly very extensive doing things Christ said to do, first, that I finally after those years started to seek God, and finally prayed to be brought to Him. That's all I know from my experience, and can't say otherwise about other ways.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Well, if you would like, I could say something I noticed -- I've had years to think about this -- that you've of course used past tense. ... But maybe first instead is something that I noticed looking back at my own path: I read for years -- and also worked on doing what Christ said for years -- before I finally prayed to be brought to God. -- That prayer was a real leap of faith -- So, I don't know what it would have been like if I had just tried early on to seek God (I grew up attending some churches, then became a non-believer for about 25 years, and then began doing things Christ said to do just for personal gain) . It was only after years of frankly very extensive doing things Christ said to do, first, that I finally after those years started to seek God, and finally prayed to be brought to Him. That's all I know from my experience, and can't say otherwise about other ways.
Ok. I notice that every Christian has a different thing that I am doing wrong. How do I determine who is telling me the truth?
 
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Lukaris

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I think in a general sense I would have to think that I do not know since a person in this situation would be in God’s hands.

The Lord says those who have done good will be saved ( John 5:22-30) and He says every sin & blasphemy will be forgiven except against the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 12:30-32). I think individuals fall into what St. Paul preaches in Romans 2 in this case. Obviously many can be saved within this framework but we cannot say who in particular.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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What convinced you 18 years ago?
A feeling while worshipping or reading the bible, looking at creation, authority figures believed, I had a dream, I believed god gave me thoughts during prayer, I could not think of any other reason for anything existing, apologists arguments, answered prayer, healing stories, witnesses from the bible, miracle stories.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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I think in a general sense I would have to think that I do not know since a person in this situation would be in God’s hands.

The Lord says those who have done good will be saved ( John 5:22-30) and He says every sin & blasphemy will be forgiven except against the Holy Spirit ( Matthew 12:30-32). I think individuals fall into what St. Paul preaches in Romans 2 in this case. Obviously many can be saved within this framework but we cannot say who in particular.
So a sincere seeker can be saved?
 
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Tree of Life

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And most people don't. That is not good evidence. The popularity of something does not mean it is true.

Atheism is actually very rare. Most people believe in a god of some sort.

Evidence that convinces me. How can I know what evidence is out there that might convince me that I have not encountered yet? I do know that the evidence I have encountered is not convincing for me. Wouldn't Go know what evidence would convince me?

If you cannot even imagine what evidence would convince you, I suspect that no evidence would convince you. I can imagine what evidence would convince me that unicorns exist, for example. Can you not even imagine what evidence could convince you of God's existence?
 
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Halbhh

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Ok. I notice that every Christian has a different thing that I am doing wrong. How do I determine who is telling me the truth?
God, Christ, would be the one Who knows more, Who would know the answer better than anyone mortal. We do at least understand that includes words via the prophets like Jeremiah who are conveying from the Lord. So when I read Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. then I remember the "all of your heart" and know then that this is a kind of all-in. It's like someone that runs out and leaps to try to cross the chasm, jumps out into the air over the cliff face, a kind of total "all-in" real leap, to use a metaphor. It wasn't...where I'd been. It was leaping into the unknown. "All" was itself an act of faith, itself. And since God gives grace to the humble, then several key things were happening: I was humble (truly), and all-in totally with all of my heart, and had been earnestly also doing the instructions Christ said to do, and also I was reading His words, and keeping them in my mind, in an ongoing way. None of that was by plan. It just came about over time. So, seeking of this kind is a kind of truly...different thing than just trying to find something for a few days. It's more as if it was had-to. I was seeking as if it was life or death. It was a total. Because He is God, and to seek the infinite, while being finite, is...risking total utter change, it's like giving up what you were, because you are finite and may be acted on by the infinite, so it already involved willingness to lose all I had in a sense -- what I thought of as self -- because I was truly risking that all I knew/lived might get replaced by a new reality.
 
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