Differences between jurisdictions

DeFyYing

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I've mostly attended OCA churches but recently went to a GOARCH liturgy and loved the Byzantine chant and architecture (although the schism situation has me worried). I would also love to go to a Western rite parish if one was near me to see what it's like. What are your guys' thoughts on the US jurisdictions and your preferences? Also, what differences should I keep in mind as someone discerning seminary?
 

Hermit76

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I think that our personal devotion is our primary concern. The local parish is key and there's good and bad in all jurisdictions. For most of us finding a local parish that keeps Orthodoxy and helps us pray is the most important thing.
That being said, being in a local parish with protestant influences is not desirable. If a jurisdiction accepts adjustments that follow these deviations then you would be wise to stay clear. Our daily lives are about monotony and prayer. The parish should both stir us and bore (retainment of normalcy) us. If a jurisdiction is sensitive to this then we will grow spiritually. If they try to touch our entertainment and comfort regions then we will die. A comfortable and entertaining death is still death
 
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ArmyMatt

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I've mostly attended OCA churches but recently went to a GOARCH liturgy and loved the Byzantine chant and architecture (although the schism situation has me worried). I would also love to go to a Western rite parish if one was near me to see what it's like. What are your guys' thoughts on the US jurisdictions and your preferences? Also, what differences should I keep in mind as someone discerning seminary?

the differences are cultural and practical. as far as Seminary goes, what degree do you want and what do you want to do with it?
 
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E.C.

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I've mostly attended OCA churches but recently went to a GOARCH liturgy and loved the Byzantine chant and architecture (although the schism situation has me worried). I would also love to go to a Western rite parish if one was near me to see what it's like. What are your guys' thoughts on the US jurisdictions and your preferences? Also, what differences should I keep in mind as someone discerning seminary?
The differences are primarily cultural. Greek churches usually have Greek food for coffee hour, Arab churches have delicious Arab food, etc. You'll meet a decent amount of Vlads and Yuris in Slavic tradition parishes whereas in Greek parishes it's usually Andrews, Johns, Georges. Arab parishes have a lot of Elias, Georges, etc.

That said, the OCA and ROCOR tend to actually have Vespers on Saturday nights while GOARCH parishes rarely do. Jerusalem Vicariate parishes and ROCOR tend to be the most traditional in terms of liturgical practice; i.e. Confession the day before or day of Communion, Vigil before Liturgy, higher frequency of weekday liturgies, etc. The OCA generally encourages Vespers Saturday nights, followed by Matins or Hours before Liturgy on Sunday morning, but that generally depends on the individual parish.

In terms of music, the OCA probably has the most diversity pulling from Russian, Carpatho-Rusyn, and Byzantine traditions whereas the Antiochians have a rule that they can only use Antiochian chant. The Greeks stick to Byzantine chant almost all the time (except for one parish I encountered that had a large Ukrainian membership and therefore had about half Slavonic chant)

In my travels consisting of both US coasts, the Deep South, and two foreign countries where I actually could go to Liturgy; I personally prefer OCA or ROCOR parishes followed by Jerusalem Vicariate. The Antiochians and Greeks just don't have a strong spiritual life as the norm. I avoid GOARCH parishes not so much because of recent politics (though it didn't help) but because the Greeks tend to be the most chauvinistic about their ethnic backgrounds. I've met enough Greek chauvinists to believe that it is the norm in the GOARCH whereas I've met very few Slavic chauvinists. The last time I attended a Greek parish was six years ago and I never returned - the final straw was they had had an Orthodox singles event for younger adults (20s, 30s - my age) and despite having been Orthodox since I converted in 2006 I was not invited because I'm not Greek (as confirmed by the... person who organized the event. When I reported that to the priest, it was the first time I ever heard a priest swear and he didn't blame me for leaving). A lot of the rhetoric from the Ecumenical Patriarch and his Ukrainian schismatics also seem to suggest that the EP would be happier as an Eastern Catholic Church under Rome. I was Roman Catholic and left the Church. If I wanted to be under Rome again that I'd be Eastern Catholic, but I have zero intentions of being under Rome again and for the EP and his cadre to even think it is a remotely good idea is a slap on the face to the Orthodox Church.
 
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DeFyYing

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The differences are primarily cultural. Greek churches usually have Greek food for coffee hour, Arab churches have delicious Arab food, etc. You'll meet a decent amount of Vlads and Yuris in Slavic tradition parishes whereas in Greek parishes it's usually Andrews, Johns, Georges. Arab parishes have a lot of Elias, Georges, etc.

That said, the OCA and ROCOR tend to actually have Vespers on Saturday nights while GOARCH parishes rarely do. Jerusalem Vicariate parishes and ROCOR tend to be the most traditional in terms of liturgical practice; i.e. Confession the day before or day of Communion, Vigil before Liturgy, higher frequency of weekday liturgies, etc. The OCA generally encourages Vespers Saturday nights, followed by Matins or Hours before Liturgy on Sunday morning, but that generally depends on the individual parish.

In terms of music, the OCA probably has the most diversity pulling from Russian, Carpatho-Rusyn, and Byzantine traditions whereas the Antiochians have a rule that they can only use Antiochian chant. The Greeks stick to Byzantine chant almost all the time (except for one parish I encountered that had a large Ukrainian membership and therefore had about half Slavonic chant)

In my travels consisting of both US coasts, the Deep South, and two foreign countries where I actually could go to Liturgy; I personally prefer OCA or ROCOR parishes followed by Jerusalem Vicariate. The Antiochians and Greeks just don't have a strong spiritual life as the norm. I avoid GOARCH parishes not so much because of recent politics (though it didn't help) but because the Greeks tend to be the most chauvinistic about their ethnic backgrounds. I've met enough Greek chauvinists to believe that it is the norm in the GOARCH whereas I've met very few Slavic chauvinists. The last time I attended a Greek parish was six years ago and I never returned - the final straw was they had had an Orthodox singles event for younger adults (20s, 30s - my age) and despite having been Orthodox since I converted in 2006 I was not invited because I'm not Greek (as confirmed by the... person who organized the event. When I reported that to the priest, it was the first time I ever heard a priest swear and he didn't blame me for leaving). A lot of the rhetoric from the Ecumenical Patriarch and his Ukrainian schismatics also seem to suggest that the EP would be happier as an Eastern Catholic Church under Rome. I was Roman Catholic and left the Church. If I wanted to be under Rome again that I'd be Eastern Catholic, but I have zero intentions of being under Rome again and for the EP and his cadre to even think it is a remotely good idea is a slap on the face to the Orthodox Church.

Wow I'm so sorry to hear about that Greek parish, what they did was horrible! Admittedly I have a fondness for the Byzantine empire, but I have heard of many stories similar to yours that reek of ethnophyletism. It's a real shame :(
 
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DeFyYing

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the differences are cultural and practical. as far as Seminary goes, what degree do you want and what do you want to do with it?

I would like to study for an M.Div and be ordained as a priest. I've wanted to for years since my Catholic childhood, but while I have much to learn as a relatively new Orthodox I hope I could have the honor to serve the Church in that capacity.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I would like to study for an M.Div and be ordained as a priest. I've wanted to for years since my Catholic childhood, but while I have much to learn as a relatively new Orthodox I hope I could have the honor to serve the Church in that capacity.

well, then you should check out the Seminaries to see what you like about them. usually guys are not ordained until they approach 30, so you have some time.
 
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Hermit76

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There are parish within each jurisdiction that more or less "ethnic". I prefer less ethnic, primarily English service. Proximity is also a factor.
Every parish is "ethnic" whether it's full of hipsters, hillbillies, or Hellenic Greeks. The church is The Church or it's not. I'll commune with anyone regardless of background as long as they're Orthodox. I live in the middle of NOWHERE and can't pick and choose.
 
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E.C.

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Wow I'm so sorry to hear about that Greek parish, what they did was horrible! Admittedly I have a fondness for the Byzantine empire, but I have heard of many stories similar to yours that reek of ethnophyletism. It's a real shame :(
I apologize for the rant, but sadly it seems to becoming more normal with that jurisdiction.

Side note about ordination: yes, Orthodox priests may be married, but they must be married before ordination. Can't get married after ordination. I've heard there is a canon that dictates a bishop has to ask the potential priest's wife permission to ordain them. That said, if you choose to become a priest and want to be a married one, make sure you find a good wife who is okay with being a matushka.

And with seminaries, the old joke goes like this:
At St Tikhon's you will learn how to swing the censor. At St Vlad's you will learn why you swing the censor. At Holy Cross you will learn where to go for a good deal on a censor! ^_^
 
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ArmyMatt

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And with seminaries, the old joke goes like this:
At St Tikhon's you will learn how to swing the censor. At St Vlad's you will learn why you swing the censor. At Holy Cross you will learn where to go for a good deal on a censor! ^_^

yep
 
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GreekOrthodox

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I've run into a handful of distrustful Russian parishes. I'll also add that I've seen local congregations that just don't want anyone new and that includes Lutheran, so its not just an ethnic Orthodox thing.

As for married and seminary, yes, +Nicholas of Detroit had an informal interview with my wife to make sure she was okay with seminary. For finding a wife, go to Ionian Village, aka Presbyteras-R-Us.
 
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GreekOrthodox

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And with seminaries, the old joke goes like this:
At St Tikhon's you will learn how to swing the censor. At St Vlad's you will learn why you swing the censor. At Holy Cross you will learn where to go for a good deal on a censor! ^_^

Where does St. Herman's of Alaska fit in this?

And BTW, we need a new censor, a number of the bells on ours are cracked.
 
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Hermit76

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Where does St. Herman's of Alaska fit in this?

And BTW, we need a new censor, a number of the bells on ours are cracked.
St. Herman's teaches you how to use a wood stove as a censor?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Saint Vladimir's taught me that if you put popcorn in a censer it makes a ruckus.

STOTS taught me that if you practice your censer swing with an apple in a grocery bag, make sure the grocery bag isn't weak...
 
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Justin-H.S.

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I've mostly attended OCA churches but recently went to a GOARCH liturgy and loved the Byzantine chant and architecture (although the schism situation has me worried). I would also love to go to a Western rite parish if one was near me to see what it's like. What are your guys' thoughts on the US jurisdictions and your preferences? Also, what differences should I keep in mind as someone discerning seminary?

The general rule of thumb is GOARCH is where the SJWs are, and ROCOR or OCA is where the based chads are, but in my limited experience, it's been the opposite for me. My GOARCH parish is where the based chads are, and the closest OCA parish swings more SJW.
 
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Phronema

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The general rule of thumb is GOARCH is where the SJWs are, and ROCOR or OCA is where the based chads are, but in my limited experience, it's been the opposite for me. My GOARCH parish is where the based chads are, and the closest OCA parish swings more SJW.

Truly I think it's based on the area the parish is located. I attend a traditional GOARCH parish, and have been to great/traditional OCA parishes as well.

To the OP @DeFyYing : Go to any canonical church, and you'll be fine. If you happen to prefer a style of one over another then I say attend that one since it may well help draw you closer to God.
 
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The general rule of thumb is GOARCH is where the SJWs are, and ROCOR or OCA is where the based chads are, but in my limited experience, it's been the opposite for me. My GOARCH parish is where the based chads are, and the closest OCA parish swings more SJW.

For this native English speaker who doesn't speak American - please would you explain the terms 'SJW' and 'based chads' ?

Puzzled in the UK
 
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