Progressive evangelicals and same-sex marriage, clergy
- Thread starter Tom W
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Pope66
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There is also research where there is a much higher HIV rate for men that have sex with men than straights. I have sent links even from Scientific and non religious sources that demonstrate that gay men are more likely to suicide, even in countries where homosexuality is widely accepted and there is a low level of orthodox Christian beliefs, and also gay couples have a higher rate of domestic violence than straights.
Well I am not gay, I am a Christian. I reject the label gay or homosexual for myself.
There are many people all off the world experience transformation in their lives, and who no longer identify as “gay” nor describe themselves as gay. They are empowered to abstain form unwanted behaviours and may experience the diminishing of unwanted same sex attracted feelings. They reject the idea that their ‘orientation’ is innate and immutable. Here is a link to some testomies: Voices of the Silenced - Documentary Film
Here is another clip of a Lesbian couple who were about to get Married and they were in a same sex relationship for years, but God personally intervened and stopped the marriage. Those women share that they were transformed with God intervention in their life, the holy spirit intervened in their lives:
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SilverBear
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Ignoring the fact that women account for the majority of all known cases of HIV AIDS and ignoring the second largest group of individuals with HIV AIDS is children under the age of 14.
Pause for a moment to consider that you are trying to use a virus to justify prejudice and hatred. You talk about offending people well this is certainly offensive. The vast majority of individuals in the world with HIV AIDS have dark skin. Does that fact make racism justifiable? Remember you just used it to justify hatred of one minority why not use that same virus to justify hatred of another group?
and you ignore the sources that show that these rates are first significantly lower in such societies.
And you ignore the fact that these rates are dropping
And you ignore the fact that it's happening less and less with younger people
and you ignore the fact that the same links you used to justify prejudice say that the cause of these suicides is not being homosexual but the hate so many have for these people.
And you have tried to pretend that this hate isn't really there but just take a moment ot consider all the hate you have spewed out in this thread alone.
Your research was shown to be false.
you reject the label of prejudice as well but here you are pushing that prejudice.
Yet they still are.
It is so sad that there are people who accept the hatred of others and internalize it to the point that they hate themselves.
DO you have any idea who the man with them is?
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lismore
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Hello Tom W. For 1,900 years Christians followed what seems to be the clear Scriptural view on this issue. Now in our day society has changed it's view so many in the church are arguing that the church changes it's view to follow the world. I would ask the obvious question. If we ignore the scriptures and follow the world in this, why won't we ignore the scriptures and follow the world on anything and everything? Why even bother with the scriptures at all, then you will be able to more readily follow the world's position. God Bless
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SilverBear
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If we keep going like this we will soon be ignoring the clear scriptural view of slavery, polygamy and blood sacrifice... wouldn't that be horrible?Hello Tom W. For 1,900 years Christians followed what seems to be the clear Scriptural view on this issue. Now in our day society has changed it's view so many in the church are arguing that the church changes it's view to follow the world. I would ask the obvious question. If we ignore the scriptures and follow the world in this, why won't we ignore the scriptures and follow the world on anything and everything? Why even bother with the scriptures at all, then you will be able to more readily follow the world's position. God Bless
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SilverBear
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the bible has very clear scriptural views on a lot of thing that we have as a society set aside.Can you explain your post please, I don't understand.
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SilverBear
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I see. I don't know what you meant by 'blood sacrifice', but as for the other two, polygamy and slavery, the bible is against those. Hence the confusion. God Bless
Blood sacrifice. Where you kill something to please God
Exodus 29:10-14
Numbers 6:10-11
Numbers 6:14
Genesis 8:20
Judges 11:29-40
and many others
chapter and verse where the bible is against slavery please
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lismore
Maranatha
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Hello SilverBear.
Thank you. I was wondering where you stood regarding the atonement because we are saved through a blood sacrifice. The blood of Jesus.
To begin with:
1 Timothy 1:8-11.
Exodus 20:2
Deuteronomy 24:7
Leviticus 25:39
Have you changed your mind about the polygamy issue? God Bless
Thank you. I was wondering where you stood regarding the atonement because we are saved through a blood sacrifice. The blood of Jesus.
To begin with:
1 Timothy 1:8-11.
Exodus 20:2
Deuteronomy 24:7
Leviticus 25:39
Have you changed your mind about the polygamy issue? God Bless
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SilverBear
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should i thank you for a nonrespose?
couple condemnation of kidnapping. one prohibition about not taking a fellow Hebrew as a slave but nothing against slavery
God never changed his mind. he spelled out clear rules for how to obtain multiple wives. He rewarded those faithful to him with multiple wives. He set up rules on how a man is to treat his many wives and how to pass inheritance on to the sons of his many wives. the simple fact is that despite clear scriptual views on polygamy modern society as changed its view of having multiple wives.Have you changed your mind about the polygamy issue? God Bless
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I think it's clear that there are gay people living very different types of life. Not so surprising, since that's true of the rest of us as well. But my impression is that there's been a change over time. Gay marriage was not something one heard of at the time of Stonewall. There's at least suggestive evidence that younger gays have been moving in the direction of heterosexuals, with increasing interest in a commitment like marriage, and increasing expectations that gay dating looks a lot like heterosexual dating.
But certainly the whole range of possibilities exists. Depending upon what gays you're familiar with, you'll come away with rather different concepts of what it means to be a gay.
The health consequences of various approaches are different. HIV is certainly more dangerous to gays than to heterosexuals, but the way to prevent it is the same in both groups: minimize the number of simultaneous sexual relationships.
But certainly the whole range of possibilities exists. Depending upon what gays you're familiar with, you'll come away with rather different concepts of what it means to be a gay.
The health consequences of various approaches are different. HIV is certainly more dangerous to gays than to heterosexuals, but the way to prevent it is the same in both groups: minimize the number of simultaneous sexual relationships.
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lismore
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I don't understand, can you explain that remark please.
I noticed that your brief synopsis left one of the references out!
Exodus 20:2. The Lord reminded the Israelites that is was he who brought them out of Egypt and out of slavery, after he heard their cries, almost obliterating Egypt in the process of judgement for enslaving them! If the bible approved of slavery then there would still be Hebrew slaves in Egypt.
1 Timothy 1:8-11 gives a list of lawless behaviour, slave-trading is there along with homosexual conduct. You can't have slavery without kidnapping or slave-trading. It's ironic that you're trying to use the issue of slave-trading to now say that the Lord accepts homosexuality given that both are on the same proscribed list.
Deuteronomy 24:7 gives slave-trading as a capital offence, Leviticus 25:39 commands Israelites not to enslave. How much clearer does it have to be?
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? (Matthew 19:5-6)
Note that Jesus said that a man will be united with his wife, not wives. Jesus also references Genesis. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, nor Adam, Eve, Polly and Mary. So that rules out both homosexuality and polygamy.
In later generations people sinned on both counts of homosexuality and polygamy, the bible records their sins. But tell me where you get either homosexuality or polygamy in the pattern the Lord himself laid down in Adam and Eve.
God Bless
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lismore
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Hello Timothy,
Good to meet you. There is sometimes a difference between those with testimonies of being brought up in the Christian home on one hand, on the other the powerful 'Damascus Road' road type experience that turned a life round 180 degrees. Although a combination of the two is also known.
Living as a believer isn't hard, it's impossible. But with God all things are possible. If you try to live as a believer in your own strength you'll fail. You need the seal, the empowerment and fellowship of the Holy Spirit.
On the Damascus Road type experience the supernatural power of God has been evident to a huge degree. Nothing can ever be the same. You need to be filled with the Holy Spirit. I would submit that homosexual attraction is as nothing compared to the power of the Holy Spirit. God Bless You
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SilverBear
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you left out the fact that God was always OK with his chosen people having slaves, as long as they were foreigners
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46
Of course you can
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. Exodus 21:7
only if you sell an Israelite. Everyone else is fine.
not to enslave fellow Israelites.
so who did Jesus marry?
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Malachi 3:6: “For I the Lord do not change.” To think that God has evolved on the subject of homosexuality, which the Bible describes as an “abomination,” isn’t correct. Scripture says that God doesn’t change. Do these so-called progressives really think God is going to shift his opinion based on the latest left-wing political fashion? They should quit projecting their views onto God and instead focus on understanding what the unchanging Bible teaches.
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Yes. And 4 out of 5 aren’t. There is definitely a subculture based on risky things. But on the other end are married Christian gays.
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SilverBear
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Um no. the percentage is actually quite small, less than 2% according to the WHO
Do you think that the fact that almost 90% of all cases of HIV are found in black people is a justification for racism?
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