Do you believe in the “caught up together” event in 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17?

Timtofly said:

There are no stars, just angels that shine like stars.

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Once again, you are making a claim without the scripture to back it up...


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Douggg said:

The Jews will be believers in Jesus at the second coming. 2 Thessalonians 1:7 does not indicate the Jews will not be saved at the second coming. The Jews aren't even mentioned in that chapter.

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2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


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Spiritual Jew said:

I agree. By the way, Van Impe died earlier this year in January. I have to admit that when I was younger I used to watch his show on TV. I liked his enthusiasm for the Lord even though I didn't agree with his pre-trib dispensationalist beliefs. I was never pre-trib like him, but I was fascinated by the news stories that he and Rexella shared. That was back when I used to think every major news story was a fulfillment of Bible prophecy.

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Three well known commentators passed away - Jack Van Impe, Chuck Missler, Irvin Baxter.

BABerean2 said:

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

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The Jews will have the gospel of Jesus and be believers when Jesus returns, at his second coming.

Douggg said:

Replacement theology came out of the covenant and new covenant movements. Because the Reformers saw the Pope/Papacy as the Antichrist - but because there was no Israel in their day, which so many of the prophecies about the Antichrist and Israel being at the same time - they had to justify their view by making the church Israel, and Christians - the Jews.

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Who is replacing the one people of God, with Two Peoples of God in John 10:16?

Who is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

Who is replacing the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26?

Who is replacing the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles?

Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with those who reject Christ?

Who is replacing "the twelve tribes" that James addressed his letter to in James 1:1-3, with a group of Gentiles?


Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine are the masters of "Replacement Theology".

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Spiritual Jew said:

Yeah, I think his style definitely appealed more to American society with the sensationalism of the news reports and so on.

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I agree. I couldn't take it seriously.

BABerean2 said:

2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


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Yep. There's no indication there whatsoever of anyone, including unbelieving Jews, getting another opportunity to repent at that point. Not even close.

BABerean2 said:

Who is replacing the one people of God, with Two Peoples of God in John 10:16?

Who is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

Who is replacing the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26?

Who is replacing the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles?

Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with those who reject Christ?

Who is replacing "the twelve tribes" that James addressed his letter to in James 1:1-3, with a group of Gentiles?


Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine are the masters of "Replacement Theology".

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Replacement theology came out of the reformation covenant and new covenant movements. The reformers' eschatology was wrong, and has carried forward though the covenant and new covenant theology movements.

BABerean2 said:

Who is replacing the one people of God, with Two Peoples of God in John 10:16?

Who is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

Who is replacing the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26?

Who is replacing the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles?

Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with those who reject Christ?

Who is replacing "the twelve tribes" that James addressed his letter to in James 1:1-3, with a group of Gentiles?

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I would like to answer these questions. They all have the same answer. Pre-trib dispensationalists are the real replacement theologians. The replace the truth taught in New Testament scripture with their false interpretations of Old Testament scripture.

Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine are the masters of "Replacement Theology".

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I couldn't agree more. How ironic that they accuse us of replacement theology when we believe in the unity of all believers, Jew or Gentile, without anyone being replaced. They, on the other hand, replace the one body of Christ and separate it into two, thereby undoing the work of Christ on the cross when He brought down the middle wall of partition between Jew and Gentile believers and brought them together as one (Eph 2:11-22).

Douggg said:

Replacement theology came out of the reformation covenant and new covenant movements. The reformers' eschatology was wrong, and has carried forward though the covenant and new covenant theology movements.

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Who was replaced? If you're going to accuse someone of "replacement theology" then explain what you believe "replacement theology" is exactly. When scripture applies the promises made to Abraham to Christ (Gal 3:16) and those who belong to Christ (Gal 3:29), is that replacement theology?

Douggg said:

The Jews will have the gospel of Jesus and be believers when Jesus returns, at his second coming.

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They will not have time when Jesus comes. They will be destroyed from His presence. Read the text instead of your flawed and faulty man-made charts.

BABerean2 said:

Who is replacing the one people of God, with Two Peoples of God in John 10:16?

Who is replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

Who is replacing the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26?

Who is replacing the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles?

Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with those who reject Christ?

Who is replacing "the twelve tribes" that James addressed his letter to in James 1:1-3, with a group of Gentiles?


Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine are the masters of "Replacement Theology".

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Excellent, once again bro!

Douggg said:

The Jews will have the gospel of Jesus and be believers when Jesus returns, at his second coming.

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Can you show me where that is taught within 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? I can't seem to find it. What does that passage say Jesus is going to do to those "who know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" when He comes? Would Jews who "know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" somehow be exempt from what Paul said in 2 Thess 1:7-10?

Spiritual Jew said:

I would like to answer these questions. They all have the same answer. Pre-trib dispensationalists are the real replacement theologians. The replace the truth taught in New Testament scripture with their false interpretations of Old Testament scripture.

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Coming from someone who's screen-name is "Spiritual Jew".

Spiritual Jew said:

Can you show me where that is taught within 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10? I can't seem to find it. What does that passage say Jesus is going to do to those "who know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" when He comes? Would Jews who "know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ" somehow be exempt from what Paul said in 2 Thess 1:7-10?

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In the middle part of the 7 years....

Revelaton 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

... the Jews, Israel, become believers in Jesus.


Jesus returns to rescue the Jews held hostages Jerusalem...

Douggg said:

Replacement theology came out of the reformation covenant and new covenant movements. The reformers' eschatology was wrong, and has carried forward though the covenant and new covenant theology movements.

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It is actually Dispensationalists that believe in Replacement Theology: (1) They believe in the replacing of the new covenant with the whole Mosaic Covenant in a future millennium. (2) They believe that the New Testament Church has presently temporarily replaced national Israel. (3) They believe that Israel will one day replace the Church in a future millennium. As SJ highlighted: (4) they replace the truth taught in New Testament Scripture with their false interpretations of Old Testament Scripture. Dispensationalists should clearly be slow to throw out charges until they have taken a good look in the mirror.

sovereigngrace said:

It is actually Dispensationalists that believe in Replacement Theology: (1) They believe in the replacement of the whole Mosaic Covenant. (2) They believe that the New Testament Church has presently temporarily replaced national Israel. (3) They believe that Israel will one day replace the Church in the new heaven and new earth. As SJ highlighted: they replace the truth taught in New Testament Scripture with their false interpretations of Old Testament Scripture. Dispensationalists should clearly be slow to throw out charges until they have taken a good look in the mirror.

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Although I am not a dispensationalist, I think you have misrepresented what they believe.

I am a futurist though.

Douggg said:

Again, you are being emotionally reactive, instead of addressing what Ezekiel 39 actually contains.

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Where is the Church mentioned in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a rapture of the Church in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a 7 year tribulation mentioned in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a 3rd coming in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a future millennium mentioned in Ezekiel 39?

There are none of the elements your teachers have falsely taught you in Ezekiel 39. The doctrine is non-existent.

Pretrib is the most crudely cobbled togther doctrine ever created by man. It uses the Word to artificially create a false doctrine. It is taught nowhere. It is a grievous invention originated by the Jesuits to bring division and confusion to the Protestant faith.

Douggg said:

Although I am not a dispensationalist, I think you have misrepresented what they believe.

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Not so. And you are a Dispy.

sovereigngrace said:

Where is the Church mentioned in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a rapture of the Church in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a 7 year tribulation mentioned in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a 3rd coming in Ezekiel 39?
Where is a future millennium mentioned in Ezekiel 39?

There are none of the elements your teachers have falsely taught you in Ezekiel 39. The doctrine is non-existent.

Pretrib is the most crudely cobbled togther doctrine ever created by man. It uses the Word to artificially create a false doctrine. It is taught nowhere. It is a grievous invention originated by the Jesuits to bring division and confusion to the Protestant faith.

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Didn't we go over that list before in a previous post?

I am anytime rapture view. What anytime rapture teachers are you referring to?