Where do You Draw the Line?

Studyman said:

That’s OK Carl,

You are not interested in an actual discussion of what the Scriptures say, nor are you willing to answer very simple questions.

I don’t agree that it is heresy to answer Biblical questions, nor to ask them.

The Gospel of Christ is found in the Holy Scriptures. This is why I asked questions pertaining to them. I find your refusal to engage fascinating, but not unusual.

Thanks for opportunity to ask.

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I am not interested in a scripture slinging match - I have seen this for years on CF and it achieves little if anything.

As for answering simple questions I have no problem - if they are loaded with a predetermined outcome, that is different.

I note you not answering my simple question which was "what do you consider is the Gospel and how does it relate to the law?

Studyman said:

Wow, and all because I asked you to support your religious philosophy with Scripture.

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There you are... describing me as having a 'religious philosophy'...

I suppose you have an 'inspired understanding' then...

I have just come back from a long journey having attended a funeral.

I am exhausted.

You can read my testimony thread here...

Jesus's Ministry

I read nothing but scripture for 5 years I don't have a denominational bias or a 'religious philosophy'

I am much more into walking close with Jesus than pretending to be a theologian. If you want to spar with scripture, I am probably not a good choice. I am more of a prophetic/evangelist/encourager than a teacher. I have however done some non-denominational bible study.

I have learned to listen to those who have a deep relationship with the Father more than those who present systematic theology.

I am interested however in what folks believe because the Truth sets us free and I don't like to see folks bound.

I like to let my walk with Jesus speak for itself and encourage others to follow Him as I have.

Tell us something about yourself...

Carl Emerson said:

I am not interested in a scripture slinging match - I have seen this for years on CF and it achieves little if anything.

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Carl Emerson said:

There you are... describing me as having a 'religious philosophy'...

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But Carl, there is a religious philosophy which exists today, that teaches that the Commandments which were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles, were written by the hand of God. You are furthering this religious philosophy. And I, in obedience to the guidelines set forth by the Disciples of Christ, am trying to "prove all things" here. Therefore I asked you for scriptural evidence to support the religious philosophy you are promoting.

"Deut 28 - The Law with the blessings and the curses which Jesus abolished on the Cross."

The problem is that there is not even a hint, a suggestion, or even a slight implication that Duet. 28 which supports or promotes the religious philosophy that the Commandments contained in ordinances that were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles, were written by the Hand of God. None that I can see. Or that the "Handwriting of ordinances" Jesus took out of the way, were the the Laws given and referenced in Duet. 28. I posted much of it, and I promoted discussion of the rest so as to understand how you use this chapter to support your statement regarding whose commandments were the enemy of man. But you refused to even engage.

You should take a step back and take a breath friend. You have accused me of all manner of evil and heretical sins against God by somehow plotting against a brother in some sort of evil wicked scheme which involves tricking you into an actual examination of Scriptures that Paul said were for Reproof and Doctrine. I have said or done nothing untoward here. My questions are legitimate as well as the reason for asking them.

I suppose you have an 'inspired understanding' then...

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I am Seeking an inspired understanding to be sure. One inspired by the Holy Scriptures. This is the reason why I asked the questions that you completely ignored. I have not given my understanding here. I am not here to promote my views or any religious philosophies. I read your statement and asked you questions regarding them. And for this I am now, in your mind, an evil person slinking about, setting about to bring you into some heretical state of Godlessness. I can assure you my intentions here are for the edification of the brethren, not wickedly trick you into a discussion of Scripture.

I have just come back from a long journey having attended a funeral.

I am exhausted.

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I feel you there. I am a week into a COVID recovery. I lost 20 lbs in 10 days, my lungs are bruised and I have no strength. I've been isolated, alone in a spare bedroom for 14 days with only the Holy Scriptures for comfort. I was so blessed to have them, for as the Lord's Christ says, they are Spirit and they are Life.

I am sorry for your loss.

You can read my testimony thread here...

Jesus's Ministry

I read nothing but scripture for 5 years I don't have a denominational bias or a 'religious philosophy'

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In your attempt to defend yourself and your religious views, you have twisted this conversation to become about you or me. It's not about you or me, and was not from the beginning. I did not raise the questions I posed as an attack against you personally, any more than Jesus brought an attack against the people of HIS Time when HE asked them questions.

The young ruler we very briefly discussed did the same thing as you are doing here Carl. If your statement about yourself were really true, shouldn't you be able to find at least ONE Scripture in the Entire Bible which supports your religious philosophy that the "Handwriting of ordinances" that were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles, were written by the Hand of God? And if you are unable, then how does this make me a wicked person setting about to snare righteous men and bring them into heresy?

I am much more into walking close with Jesus than pretending to be a theologian. If you want to spar with scripture, I am probably not a good choice. I am more of a prophetic/evangelist/encourager than a teacher. I have however done some non-denominational bible study.

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Again, Carl, my brother, this isn't about you personally. Although you are working very hard to make it so. I have asked you questions about your position on Scriptures you slung. I am instructed to do so by the Word's of your own Bible. I'm sure you truly believe what you believe just as we all do. All I asked for is something more than your own words in support of the doctrines you are promoting here on this forum. I am not accusing you of anything untoward in the questions I asked. Had you provided the Word's inspired by the Most High which show that the "Commandments, contained in ordinances" that were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles, were written by the Hand of God, as you imply, then we are all set. Our minds and God's united in Spirit and Truth.

But you have not provided anything other than a conspiracy theory that I, with evil intent, was trying to deceive you into some heretical trap. It's just not truth. And being untrue, does not originate from the Spirit of Christ. This should be of more concern to you than me.

I have learned to listen to those who have a deep relationship with the Father more than those who present systematic theology.

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Every religious person on earth believes they have a personal relationship with God. As do I. So did the young ruler, and those in Matthew 7 who did all in Christ's Name.

I would contend that there is only ONE Voice we can trust as brother Paul instructs his fellow Children of God.

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

For this reason I asked for support from the Holy Scriptures that the "Commandments contained in ordinances" that were contrary to Paul, Jews and Gentiles, were written by the Hand of God, and not the Shepherds who were promoting the commandments of men.

Frankly, I am amazed that you are so reluctant to examine this question.

I am interested however in what folks believe because the Truth sets us free and I don't like to see folks bound.

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Set's us free from what Carl? From untruth, Yes? From winds of doctrine that are not supported by the Holy Scriptures, Yes? From Doctrines and religious philosophies of men, Yes?

1 Thess. 5:20 Despise not prophesyings. 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

And how can we come to this truth apart from the Holy Scriptures?

I like to let my walk with Jesus speak for itself and encourage others to follow Him as I have. Tell us something about yourself...

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In all due respect, you have been elusive, and accusative. You post scripture then refuse to examine them. You deflect from your own action, and bring accusations on others who have simply asked you for scriptural support for your religious views.

You have turned a legitimate inquiry into the origins of handwritten ordinances which were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles, into some personal premeditated evil scheme to bring you into some heretical place. So I know you are capable of believing things which are not truth, because you have shown very clearly such a condition remains in you to this day. My hope is that you might reconsider the motives of your brother, and accept that it is not a sin or unrighteousness, to promote the honest discussion of Scriptures. Nor is it a sin to correct, or be corrected whichever the examination reveals.

As for me, I am a no-body. A maggot turd in the scheme of things who have accepted the instructions of the Lord's Christ Himself. "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY Word which proceeds from the mouth of God".

Therefore, because of HIS Instruction, I asked you for some kind of support from the God of the Bible in your promotion of the religious philosophy that the "Handwriting of Ordinances" that were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles, that Jesus took out of the way, were written by the Hand of the God of the Bible.

My hope is that once you have rested, and have looked intently into the mirror, you might reconsider the motives of your brother, and embark on a study into whose hands write commandments relegating Gentiles as without hope and without God in the world.

I hope you rest well.

Fervent said:

A lot of this is missing the context of the passages, especially in that the law given to Moses was for a specific purpose and tied to a specific set of promises, and is impossible to fulfill in any manner today because there is no king, there is no temple, and there is no priesthood in Israel to administer the covenant.

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Thank you so much for the reply. This is a perfect example of the point I hoped to make with Carl.

You are promoting a religious philosophy "especially in that the law given to Moses was for a specific purpose and tied to a specific set of promises, and is impossible to fulfill in any manner today because there is no king, there is no temple, and there is no priesthood in Israel to administer the covenant.

But when I read the Holy Scriptures.

1 Cor. 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. 5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

So while it is true that the Law given to Moses was for a specific purpose, that purpose was for US!! The Laws given to Moses were given for us, for our edification.

11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The implication in your post that the Laws of Moses were only for the people of that time is directly contradicted by Paul Himself.

1 Cor. 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

So once again, the implication in your statement is that the Law of Moses was written for a specific people of a specific time, who are no longer relevant. This is a widely believed doctrine in the religions of the land I was born into. But Paul is telling us again, for the 2nd time, that the Laws given to Moses were written for "OUR SAKE'S" no doubt.

1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: 15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; 16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Again, in direct contradiction to the popular religious philosophy that the Law was given to Moses for that specific time and people, this time Peter has revealed that the Law and Prophets were specifically written and administered for US, who are alive this day.

2 Tim. 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

And again;

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Again Paul is clearly speaking to the instructions given to His people by Moses that Paul is saying "we should walk in".

I could continue on and on because the religious philosophy which teaches that the Laws of God were only for a specific people of a specific time, which has passed, is popular no doubt, But lies in direct contradiction to the Holy Scriptures themselves.

So there are two possible reasons for this contradiction. Either the religious philosophy of the land is right, and Paul and Peter are wrong, and the Holy Scriptures have been relegated useless in the New Covenant. Or you are in error, and Paul and Peter are right, and the oracles of God given to the Jews are now written in the minds of God's People to walk in, as God before ordained and promised in His Promise of the New Covenant.

For me, I have come to have Faith in the Scriptures over the religious philosophies of men so I am forever convinced that Paul and Peter are right in this matter.

When Christ said He came not to abolish it was not merely "the law" that He spoke of, but "the law and the prophets" which has a specific meaning to it and is not necessarily speaking of statutes and ordinances but to the Scriptures themselves. It is essentially a declaration of what He explained to the 2 on the road to Emmaus, that He and His mission are what Scripture is about, and not a statement of a persistance to the sinai covenant. Paul's writing is salacious in how he speaks, using somewhat inflammatory language, but the essence of his arguments remain in that Christ has fulfilled the foundational purpose of what was revealed to the prophets.

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I agree that Jesus exposed the commandments of men and the winds of false doctrine that had been taught as Biblical truth for centuries. He said as much Himself.

Matt. 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

This statement would beg the question, "why were the Sheep lost"? The implication of modern religious philosophy is that they were lost because they were trying to follow God's Laws given to Moses.

But once again, if a person were to ask God to answer this question, what would HE say?

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

But in defense of modern doctrine, a man might say the Shepherds were requiring these sheep to follow God's Laws. So what does the Scriptures say about this?

Jer. 23:16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD.

And again;

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So according to Scriptures, the Shepherds God placed over His people had corrupted God's Commandments, and were teaching for doctrines their own "Commandments of Men". Jesus said this caused His Sheep to stumble and go astray. So He came back to save them. Now according to the implication of your post, HE came back, not to expose the Commandments of Men which had caused His people to be lost, but to eliminate God's Commandments which the Shepherds were not preaching as instructed.

So once again, we have a glaring contradiction in the religious philosophies of the land I was born into, and what the Scriptures actually say.

There can only be two reasons for this contradiction. Either the Holy Scriptures are wrong, and the Shepherds were teaching for doctrines the Commandments of God, which were against and contrary to Paul, Jews and Gentiles, and Jesus exposed His Father's Commandments as the enmity of all mankind.

Or the Scriptures are right, and the "Commandments contained in ordinances" that were against Paul, the Jews and Gentiles, were the Commandments of men taught as Law for centuries, that had caused God's People to depart out of the way, and go astray.

Since I am convinced in the truth of the Holy Scriptures, I'm going with the understanding that it is the religious philosophies of modern religious men who are wrong, and not the Holy Scriptures.

I believe we all come face to face with the truth of the religions of the land we are born into, just as Abraham was called out of the religions of the land he was born into. The trick I think is humility to just accept the Scriptures as doctrine, and not succumb to the natural desire to preserve our own thoughts and pride. Historically this is a real problem with men as the Pharisees and religious zealots in the examples written for our admonition show us.

As Jesus said, there is a cost. I look forward to an honest, hopefully malice free examination and discernment of the Biblical truth about whose hands wrote the handwriting of ordinances which relegated Gentiles/Strangers as without God and without hope in this world.

Thanks for the opportunity to discuss.

Studyman said:

But Carl, there is a religious philosophy which exists today, that teaches that the Commandments which were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles, were written by the hand of God. You are furthering this religious philosophy. And I, in obedience to the guidelines set forth by the Disciples of Christ, am trying to "prove all things" here. Therefore I asked you for scriptural evidence to support the religious philosophy you are promoting.

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This is nonsense, I am promoting no such thing.

My position is best explained in an analogy I have explained previously.

See here...

Messianic Judaism

Post #23

I am clear that the Author of the Law is now living in our hearts as predicted by Jeremiah. His living Word including the Law of the Spirit of Life in fact interprets to us what the Law meant and how it should be applied in our unique living circumstances. As we obey His Word within we more than keep the Law as He said we would. Not that Keeping the Law saves us, it is rather an evidence that He resides within. This does not imply I hold to a seventh day Sabbath, rather I have by faith entered into His rest permanently.

Also I am not telling people to believe what I do, but of the Holy Spirit bears witness to what I say, who am I to argue with that?

Carl Emerson said:

This is nonsense, I am promoting no such thing.

My position is best explained in an analogy I have explained previously.

See here...

Messianic Judaism

Post #23

I am clear that the Author of the Law is now living in our hearts as predicted by Jeremiah. His living Word including the Law of the Spirit of Life in fact interprets to us what the Law meant and how it should be applied in our unique living circumstances. As we obey His Word within we more than keep the Law as He said we would. Not that Keeping the Law saves us, it is rather an evidence that He resides within. This does not imply I hold to a seventh day Sabbath, rather I have by faith entered into His rest permanently.

Also I am not telling people to believe what I do, but of the Holy Spirit bears witness to what I say, who am I to argue with that?

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oh my goodness Carl

Messianic Judaism???? Where did that come from? I simply asked you some questions.

I’m sorry, Obviously there is more going on with you here than meets the eye.

I hope things work out for you.

Blessed be the God of the Bible, and His Son whose Words inspire me to live by Every Word which proceeds from the mouth of God.

Which is why I questioned your statement in the first place.

Good day Sir

Carl Emerson said:

This is nonsense, I am promoting no such thing.

My position is best explained in an analogy I have explained previously.

See here...

Messianic Judaism

Post #23

I am clear that the Author of the Law is now living in our hearts as predicted by Jeremiah. His living Word including the Law of the Spirit of Life in fact interprets to us what the Law meant and how it should be applied in our unique living circumstances. As we obey His Word within we more than keep the Law as He said we would. Not that Keeping the Law saves us, it is rather an evidence that He resides within. This does not imply I hold to a seventh day Sabbath, rather I have by faith entered into His rest permanently. Also I am not telling people to believe what I do, but of the Holy Spirit bears witness to what I say, who am I to argue with that?

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Carl, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God *John 6:63. God's Spirit bears witness to what we say if what we say or believe is written in the scriptures. If what we say is not written in the scriptures God's Spirit does not bear witness to what we say, believe or teach because it is not written in scripture. If what we say, believe, or teach is not written in the scriptures then it is not God's Spirit that bears witness to what we say because it is not witnessed in the Word of God which is God's witness. You present no scripture to support your teachings which are simply those of the teachings and traditions of men that JESUS is calling his people to come out from as written in the scriptures of religious people leading others to depart Gods' Word and break his commandments as said by JESUS and John in *Matthew 15:3-9 and Revelation 18:1-5. BABYLON has fallen *Revelation 14:6-12; Revelation 17:1-5; Revelation 18:1-5; John 10:26-27. God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in Spirit an in truth *John 4:23-24. No one enters into Gods rest if they do not believe and follow Gods' Word. This is the warning given by Paul in Hebrews 3 and Hebrews 4. God's people do not enter into God's rest by not believing and not following God's Word. "Therefore it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath - Hebrews 4:9 For we who have believed do enter into that rest - Hebrews 4:3. You of course are free to believe as you wish. Ignoring Gods' Word does not make it disappear because according to the scriptures it becomes our judge come judgement day *John 12:47-48. Only God's Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow it *Acts of the Apostles 5:29 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9. According to the scriptures those who knowingly break God's commandments do not enter into the kingdom of heaven because they reject the free gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing doing despite to the Spirit of Gods grace *Hebrews 10:26-31; Matthew 7:21-23. The author of the law is not living in our hearts if we are knowingly breaking it according to the scriptures (see 1 John 2:3-4; 1 John 3:6-10; Hebrews 8:10-12; Ezekiel 36:24-27; Hebrews 10:26-39).

Hope this is helpful

Studyman said:

oh my goodness Carl

Messianic Judaism???? Where did that come from? I simply asked you some questions.

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You have jumped to some weird conclusion because I posted on the MJ thread - why is this ?? Anyone can post there if they are respectful.

What conclusion did you draw from this.

And why are you 'running away' ?

And things are working out well for me thank you very much...

LoveGodsWord said:

Carl, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Word of God as written in the scriptures *John 6:63

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Stop right there - You just put the Holy Spirit of God in a box.

The Words of God pour forth day after day to sustain all life and the universe it's self.

The actions of, and the Words Holy Spirit carries from the Father are not confined to the Scripture.

Scripture doesn't record all that Jesus said.

The Holy Spirit indwells us so He can speak and we follow His voice within.

Carl Emerson said:

Stop right there - You just put the Holy Spirit of God in a box.

The Words of God pour forth day after day to sustain all life and the universe it's self.

The actions of, and the Words Holy Spirit carries from the Father are not confined to the Scripture.

Scripture doesn't record all that Jesus said.

The Holy Spirit indwells us so He can speak and we follow His voice within.

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Your words are not God's Word and do not bear witness to the truth *John 17:17. God's Word says that "the words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *John 6:63. There is no witness to your words as they are not supported by God's Word or His Spirit who is the Spirit of the Word of God. My dear friend, God's Spirit works through the Word of God as we believe and follow what God's Word says. It does not work outside of God's Word in those who do not believe and follow what God's Word says. We are told in the scriptures the Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life and God's Word is truth. These are Gods' Words not mine and they bear witness with God's Spirit that my words are true because they are not my words but God's Word and if I tell you the truth (the Word of God) why do you not believe it? God's Spirit does not bear witness to your words because your words are not God's Word but your words. So your argument is not with me dear friend but God whose Word your arguing with. This is only sent in love and as a help to you Carl. They are God's Word not mine. My prayer and hope is that you can receive this post in the Spirit that they have been given and receive God's blessing and correction. If not we will have to agree to disagree because only Gods' Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow *John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-23; Acts of the Apostles 5:29 them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9

LoveGodsWord said:

Your words are not God's Word and do not bear witness to the truth *John 17:17. God's Word says that "the words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *John 6:63. There is no witness to your words as they are not supported by God's Word or His Spirit who is the Spirit of the Word of God. My dear friend, God's Spirit works through the Word of God as we believe and follow what God's Word says. It does not work outside of God's Word in those who do not believe and follow what God's Word says. We are told in the scriptures the Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life and God's Word is truth. These are Gods' Words not mine and they bear witness with God's Spirit that my words are true because they are not my words but God's Word and if I tell you the truth (the Word of God) why do you not believe it? God's Spirit does not bear witness to your words because your words are not God's Word but your words. So your argument is not with me dear friend but God whose Word your arguing with. This is only sent in love and as a help to you Carl. They are God's Word not mine. My prayer and hope is that you can receive this post in the Spirit that they have been given and receive God's blessing and correction. If not we will have to agree to disagree because only Gods' Word is true *Romans 3:4 and we should believe and follow *John 10:26-27; Matthew 7:21-23; Acts of the Apostles 5:29 them over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9

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Hi there LGW...

Your last post gives me the honour of being judged by a no-name on the internet...

I would be happy to give scriptural support for what I said but I doubt it would help given the narrow judgements you made.

I love how folks claim to have an exclusive link to truth just because they systematically quote scripture - Satan tried that with Jesus.

And poor folks like myself are seen to need help as they have a 'problem'

I only said 5 sentences - which one pushed the button to elicit a response like that?

Jesus was judged - it goes with the territory.

Carl Emerson said:

Hi there LGW...

Your last post gives me the honour of being judged by a no-name on the internet...

I would be happy to give scriptural support for what I said but I doubt it would help given the narrow judgements you made.

I love how folks claim to have an exclusive link to truth just because they systematically quote scripture - Satan tried that with Jesus.

And poor folks like myself are seen to need help as they have a 'problem'

I only said 5 sentences - which one pushed the button to elicit a response like that?

Jesus was judged - it goes with the territory.

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Not really Carl. I do not judge you. According to God's Word (not mine) it is God's Word that we accept or reject that becomes our judge come judgement day.

JOHN 12:[47], And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.[48], He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

God's Words are not mine but God's and His Word and Spirit bears witness that my words are true. If I tell you the truth *John 17:17 why do you not believe it? You of course are free to believe as you wish as we all answer only to God come judgement day according to the scriptures posted above.

It is best therefore to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or not *2 Corinthians 13:5 today *Hebrews 3:15 rather then find out only too late latter when JESUS says to many depart from me your who work iniquity I never knew you. *Matthew 7:21-23

Only God's Word is true dear friend and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29; 1 John 2:3-4 over the teachings and traditions of men that break the commandments of God *Matthew 15:3-9

May God help you as you dear friend as you seek Him through his Word. Closing our eyes and ears to God's Word does not make it disappear. This is what JESUS and Paul were faced with when dealing with the religious teachers in their day when they quoted Isaiah 6:9-10 in Matthew 13:13-15 and Acts of the Apostles 28:26-27. We do not want to find ourselves in this group either Carl. The Words that I speak unto you they are Spirit and they are life *John 6:63.

May God help you as you seek Him through His Word

Studyman, you make a compelling reason for the ten commandments writing that they came from the hand of God. Is what was coming forth from His hand anymore sacred that what came out of His mouth? If we are to believe the ten are binding today how could be possibly cull the remainder of His commands or even pick some of them and cull the remainder?

God's word - not yours?

No human interpretation?

No systematic theology behind the verses you choose?

And You don't judge me ???

Errrr... because you only speak God's Word ???

Wow... that sounds like Cult talk....

Mmmm... sinless perfection + quoting Scripture = Gods voice not yours !!!

I would run a mile from any church like that...

Carl Emerson said:

1. The Words of God pour forth day after day to sustain all life and the universe it's self.

2. The actions of, and the Words Holy Spirit carries from the Father are not confined to the Scripture.

3. Scripture doesn't record all that Jesus said.

4. The Holy Spirit indwells us so He can speak and we follow His voice within.

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For the sake of the readers I will give scriptural support for these four statements I made.

1. Ps 19 1-4 Rom 1:20 Col 1:17 Rom 11:36
2. Genesis 1 1 Jn 2:27 Is 30:20,21 Lk 21:14 Acts 11:27,28
3. Jn 21:25
4. 1 Jn 2:27 Jn 10:27 Is 30:21 Lk 21:14

Carl Emerson said:

For the sake of the readers I will give scriptural support for these four statements I made.

1. Ps 19 1-4 Rom 1:20 Col 1:17 Rom 11:36
2. Genesis 1 1 Jn 2:27 Is 30: 20,21 Lk 21:14
3. Jn 21:25
4. 1 Jn 2:27 Jn 10:27 Is 30:21 Lk 21:14

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Carl, none of those scripture state anywhere that God's Spirit does not work though God's written Word. Yet it is Gods Word (not mine) that says God's Word is the Spirit of the truth of God's Word and works through God's Word as we believe and follow it *John 6:63; John 7:17; John 3:16-21. Neither do any of those scriptures state or prove anywhere that Gods' Spirit works contrary to or in opposition to the written Word of God. What have you presented here to support your claims of Spiritualism? - Nothing. God's Spirit works through God's Word not outside of it as we believe and follow what it says. If we do not believe and follow God's Word we do not have Gods Spirit but the same Spirit of those who do not believe and follow God's Word. Something to pray about.

LoveGodsWord said:

Carl none of those scripture state anywhere that God's Spirit does not work though God's written Word.

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Of course God's Spirit works through God's written Word !!!

Why else would I bother to quote Scripture !!!

That is not the point that is being made or argued.

Surely you understand that ???

Maybe you simply don't understand the position I hold ???

My position is that He also speaks in other ways.

If that were not so there would be no such thing as a gift of prophesy like Agabus had. He did not quote scripture when he delivered God's word to Paul.

Carl Emerson said:

Of course God's Spirit works through God's written Word !!!

Why else would I bother to quote Scripture !!!

That is not the point that is being made or argued.

Surely you understand that ???

Maybe you simply don't understand the position I hold ???

My position is that He also speaks in other ways.

If that were not so there would be no such thing as a gift of prophesy like Agabus had. He did not quote scripture when he delivered God's word to Paul.

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Carl, thanks for your post. I do understand what position you hold perfectly as we have spoken long enough and I have read much of what you have written here to see that your teachings are the same as those religious teachers who teach and promote man-made teachings and traditions that lead others away from God and His Word to either knowingly of unknowingly break God's commandments (God's 4th commandment in case of point). JESUS warns us about following man-made teachings and traditions that break the commandments of God in Matthew 15:3-9. Of course there is the "spoken Word of God " revealed through the gift of prophecy although we are told to test the Spirits to see if they are from God or not with the standard of the written Word of God * 1 John 4:1-6. That is why scripture was posted earlier to show that God's Spirit works through the written Word of God, not contrary to it or in opposition to the written Word of God. If something spoken it in opposition to the written Word of God then it is not from God and is not being delivered by God's Spirit but the Spirit of the devil. The written Word of God is only a transcript of the spoken Word of God and God does not say things in opposition to what he has already said. God is calling his people Carl where ever they may be to leave these traditions and teachings and return to the pure Word of God. It is time to leave BABYLON. *John 10:17: John 4:23-24; Revelation 14:6-12; Revelation 17:1-5; Revelation 18:1-5.

Hope this helps.

There is nothing 'man made' about not being judged regarding a Sabbath day.

Col 2:16
let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.…

And Babylon is any church not meeting on Saturday ??

Really???

Next...

Carl Emerson said:

There is nothing 'man made' about not being judged regarding a Sabbath day.

Col 2:16
let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath. 17These are a shadow of the things to come, but the body that casts it belongs to Christ.…

And Babylon is any church not meeting on Saturday ??

Really???

Next...

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Carl, it is not wise to pull scripture from context without considering the within chapter and scripture context or what is being discussed. For example what sabbath{s} is Colossians 2:16-17 talking about Carl that Paul is referring to in the old covenant? You do know there were many types of sabbaths that were never linked to days but the annual Feasts right?

So tell us what sabbath{s} (plural) is Colossians 2:16:17 talking about (scripture please)?

Was it...

1. The Sabbaths of the Feast of unleavened bread (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week *Leviticus 23:6-8
2. The Sabbath on the annual day of Atonement that can fall on any day of the week * Leviticus 23:27-32
3. The Sabbath on the annual Feast of Trumpets that can fall on any day of the week * Leviticus 23:24-25?
4. The Sabbath on the Feast of Booths that can fall on any day of the week * Leviticus 23:34-36
5. Feast of first fruits (first and last day) that can fall on any day of the week * Leviticus 23:39
6. The sabbaths (sabbaton plural) of holy convocations from the annual feast days * Leviticus 23:7-8; 21;24; 27; 35-36 that can fall on any days of the week
7. The Sabbath of the land (7 year single cycle) * Leviticus 25:2
8. The Sabbath of Jubilee - culminating of the 7x7 yearly cycles sabbaths * Leviticus 25:9-54
9. Or God's 4th commandment seventh day weekly Sabbath which is one of the 10 commandments that define sin when broken? *Exodus 20:8-11 from Genesis 2:1-3

Look forward to your response and happy to discuss this one in detail if your interested. Colossians 2 has nothing to do whatsoever with God's 10 commandments and God's 4th commandment "seventh day" Sabbath as this is the only Sabbath linked to the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4.

In fact, it is impossible for God's 4th commandment to be a "shadow" of anything as there was no sin or plan for salvation when God created the Sabbath for all mankind on the "seventh day" of the creation week *Mark 2:27; Genesis 2:1-3. Mankind was in perfect harmony with God and there was no "shadow laws" that is why God's 4th commandment God's *Exodus 20:8-11 is a "memorial" of creation, unlike the Mosaic annual sabbaths (plural) in the Feast days which were given after the fall of mankind that are all prophetic of things to come pointing to JESUS and God's plan of salvation from sin in the new covenant.

Gods' 4th commandment points backwards to creation not forward to something to come as there was no sin when God made the Sabbath for all mankind *Genesis 2:1-3; Mark 2:27-28; Exodus 20:8-11.

Look forward to talking details in the scriptures Carl.