Are you Prepared for the Second Coming of Jesus?

BobRyan · Dec 4, 2020

jhjhh said:
You have many writings, i picked one to make comment. Did not read all comments to see if these things are already asked. Have you examined how apostles teach the gospel?

About the law. Why do you wanna yoke people to keep the law? Are you familiar with new covenant?

1. It is interesting that you never actually quote the New Covenant in your post.. so then I will do that now.

2. Even gentiles in the New Testament age are not to take God's name in vain and as Paul reminds us in Eph 6:1-2 - they are still not supposed to dishonor parents... even in the NT !!

Jer 31:31-34 The Bible "NEW Covenant". (hardly ever quoted by some groups)
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Which is very different from "no Law will exist".
Jer 31 points specifically to the moral law of God known by Jeremiah and his readers - and includes the one given by God at Sinai - and written on stone.

3. Paul reminds us of this fact - in Rom 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 in that still valid unit of TEN - is the 5th commandment that says "Honor your father and mother"

So then "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Now at this point it might be good to ask yourself a question - do you hear these scriptures explained in church each week? each month? each year? or each decade??

Rom 2:13-16 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the LAW will be Justified(vs13)... according to my Gospel(vs 16)" -- justification is purely a gospel concept.

As born-again people of God - we now serve in the Spirit who tells us "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

All of this new birth , new covenant news is "good news" for the born-again saints
====================================

Well then what about the lost? What does the Law say to the lost?

Answer: it condemns the Lost - Rom 3:
9 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

For "All have sinned" Rom 3:23

THIS is the message people hear almost every month if not every week. The message to the lost about how the lost relate to the Law.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. James 2

the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-11

BobRyan · Dec 4, 2020

NT writers proclaim freedom from condemnation that the lost have who are without the gospel and condemned by the law. That freedom comes only by accepting the Gospel - where the Law is then written on heart and mind for the forgiven, born-again, new-heart, new-creation saints.

No wonder then that for all eternity after the cross ... in the New Earth ... .all mankind will come before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" Is 66:23

BobRyan · Dec 4, 2020

Those are the Bible texts that will not be presented each year , or each month or each week for some folks... Those people would have to come here to find out about them.

jhjhh · Dec 4, 2020

BobRyan said:
1. It is interesting that you never actually quote the New Covenant in your post.. so then I will do that now.

2. Even gentiles in the New Testament age are not to take God's name in vain and as Paul reminds us in Eph 6:1-2 - they are still not supposed to dishonor parents... even in the NT !!

Jer 31:31-34 The Bible "NEW Covenant". (hardly ever quoted by some groups)
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

Which is very different from "no Law will exist".
Jer 31 points specifically to the moral law of God known by Jeremiah and his readers - and includes the one given by God at Sinai - and written on stone.

3. Paul reminds us of this fact - in Rom 3:31
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

Where "the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:1-2 in that still valid unit of TEN - is the 5th commandment that says "Honor your father and mother"

So then "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Now at this point it might be good to ask yourself a question - do you hear these scriptures explained in church each week? each month? each year? or each decade??

Rom 2:13-16 "it is not the HEARERS of the LAW that are just before God - but the DOERS of the LAW will be Justified(vs13)... according to my Gospel(vs 16)" -- justification is purely a gospel concept.

As born-again people of God - we now serve in the Spirit who tells us "this IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

All of this new birth , new covenant news is "good news" for the born-again saints
====================================

Well then what about the lost? What does the Law say to the lost?

Answer: it condemns the Lost - Rom 3:
9 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

For "All have sinned" Rom 3:23

THIS is the message people hear almost every month if not every week. The message to the lost about how the lost relate to the Law.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7

James 2
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. James 2

the lost "do not submit to the LAW of God neither indeed CAN they" Rom 8:4-11

So what you want to tell me? If i live in spirit and free from law do you think you obey the law more pleasingly to god than i do? Do you often feel like a sinner? Do you often feel tense?

BobRyan · Dec 4, 2020

jhjhh said:
So what you want to tell me? If i live in spirit and free from law do you think you obey the law more pleasingly to god than i do? Do you often feel like a sinner? Do you often feel tense?

My point is simply that Bible details matter. That is the entire reason why we had all that sola-scriptura testing emphasis for all doctrine in the Protestant Reformation. Disconnect from those Bible details and a lot of new and conflicting ideas begin to emerge.

In the NT sin is still defined as "transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4... still.

And 1 John 2:1 tells us to "sin not" rather than "sin does not matter after all it is only transgression of the Law".

jhjhh · Dec 4, 2020

BobRyan said:
My point is simply that Bible details matter. That is the entire reason why we had all that sola-scriptura testing emphasis for all doctrine in the Protestant Reformation. Disconnect from those Bible details and a lot of new and conflicting ideas begin to emerge.

In the NT sin is still defined as "transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4... still.

And 1 John 2:1 tells us to "sin not" rather than "sin does not matter after all it is only transgression of the Law".

Speaking of details. Changed the one word from the icehockey example i earlier told. (word think to word believe). Yes we shouldnt do sin eventhou we are not under the law.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. hebrews 10:26-27

Bro.T · Dec 4, 2020

BobRyan said:
1 Thess 4:13-18 both the resurrected saints and the living saints are caught up in the air to meet the Lord. The rapture term is used to reference both groups at that singular event.

So regardless of the term you prefer for the event where both resurrected saints and the living saints are caught up together to meet the Lord in the air - the point in both 1 Thess 4:13-18 and in Matt 24 where He sends His angels to "gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other". it is the second coming event where it happens.

Agreed - it is "that event" where the "dead in Christ rise first" 1 Thess 4, at the "First resurrection" which is the 2nd coming event desribed in Matt 28, Rev 19 and John 14:1-3

agreed - that is a problem for sure.

Agreed. That is also a problem.

But I am just saying that the term rapture as strictly limited to resurrecting the saints and taking the resurrected saints as well as the living saints to heaven at the second coming - which is after the tribulation - is not an argument against keeping the commandments of God... it is just the term for taking both groups to heaven at the coming of Christ.

I hear you brother, but because other Christians believe different and the word rapture is not written in the Bible anyway, I'll just stick with what the book calling that event which is first resurrection. Because Paul says in 1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

BobRyan · Dec 4, 2020

jhjhh said:
Speaking of details. Changed the one word from the icehockey example i earlier told. (word think to word believe). Yes we shouldnt do sin eventhou we are not under the law.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. hebrews 10:26-27

All sin is willful

1 Cor 10
13 No temptation has overtaken you except something common to mankind; and God is faithful, so He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

Heb 12
Therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let’s rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that sin not. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather suffer the wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves do wrong and defraud. And this to your brothers and sisters!
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Bro.T · Dec 4, 2020

jhjhh said:
You have many writings, i picked one to make comment. Did not read all comments to see if these things are already asked. Have you examined how apostles teach the gospel?

About the law. Why do you wanna yoke people to keep the law? Are you familiar with new covenant? We are free from the law. We now serve god in spirit.

6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7

That law Paul is talking about is the animal sacrificial law, not the Royal law the ten Commandments. Let's skip down in the same chapter and pick up the royal law in verse (v.7) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, THOU SHALT NOT COVET. Paul asked a question, is the law sin? He said God forbid, he said the only way that he knew what sin was, was by the law. (v.12) Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy, just and good.

jhjhh said:
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. James 2

James is talking about a declaration of righteousness and salvation by Christ, an offer of peace and pardon by Him, and a free promise of eternal life through Him. But it comes only if you fulfil the royal law according to the scriptures. Notice the laws and the rules with it before you gotten to the last verse here. See the law liberty comes with the Royal law.

jhjhh said:
How i live:
Faith in jesus, free from the law, focusing rather to live in spirit and achieving good fruit, cleanness and holyness. Not continously in fear of doing sin(reckoning to be death to sin), but if believing something to be wrong and still doing that, that would be sin. That also helps having clean conscience. If i believe or doubt something to be wrong i rather not do it that way im able to have good conscience most of the time.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. romans 6:11

Let's pick this at verse 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. The way we have to die into sin is to repent and be baptised in name of Jesus for the remission of sin, because the baptism washes away your past sins, not future sin. At the point you would be the cleanest you can ever get, but it's the willful sin that would get you in trouble.

jhjhh said:
20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. romans 14

Example. Jacob goes to icehockey match, believes its totally fine. It wont be sin for him. On the other hand if he would believe its wrong for him to go there and still would go then it would be sin.

Let me give you another example of what Paul is saying here...some christians believe that drinking alcohol is a sin, for whatever reason. But the book say that in (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) So Paul is just saying don't drink alcohol around people who believe like that, even though you know it's not sin.

jhjhh said:
12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 1 cor 6

13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Galatians 5

Let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2 Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

I see you follow that word liberty around the Bible, with a different mind set. But again lets see the liberty Paul is talking about as I will let Paul go into details concerning verse 14.

Lets go into (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law.

(v.9) For this, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, THOU SHALT NOT COVET; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. (v.10) Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

And that is what God’s holy commandments are all about; the first four tells you how to love God and the last six tells you how to love your neighbor. If you love your God you will not do any thing to offend him, like having other gods before him. You will do as he says like remember the sabbath day to keep it holy on the seventh day of the week. If you love him you will obey him when he tells you not to eat certain meats etc… And the same goes for your fellow man, if you love your neighbor you wouldn’t steal from him, you wouldn’t kill him, you wouldn’t try and sleep with his wife and so on and so forth. This is God’s definition of love and it is perfect in its ways.

jhjhh · Dec 5, 2020

Bro.T said:
Why in the world would a Christian want to do away with something that God said is holy, just and good.

Because ministry of spirit is greater in glory.

6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

12 Therefore, having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13 and we are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not stare at the end of what was fading away. 14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts; 16 but whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2 cor 3

And i can tell you, we dont have same mind. My understanding and the way I think is different than yours.

BobRyan · Dec 5, 2020

jhjhh said:
Because ministry of spirit is greater in glory.
6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The New Covenant has to be read to know what it is ...

Jer 31:31-34 "I will make a New Covenant... THIS IS the covenant I will make.." and then He says He writes His LAW known to Jeremiah and his readers - on heart and mind.

IT is not a war between NT and OT - rather it is the NEW Covenant as the one and only Gospel in both OT and NT where the Law alone was never able to save someone - yet that same Law is written on heart and mind - for the born again saints under the New Covenant whether OT or NT.

So then Moses and Elijah stand with Christ -- in glorty - in Matt 17.... before the cross.

jhjhh · Dec 5, 2020

BobRyan said:
The New Covenant has to be read to know what it is ...

Jer 31:31-34 "I will make a New Covenant... THIS IS the covenant I will make.." and then He says He writes His LAW known to Jeremiah and his readers - on heart and mind.

IT is not a war between NT and OT - rather it is the NEW Covenant as the one and only Gospel in both OT and NT where the Law alone was never able to save someone - yet that same Law is written on heart and mind - for the born again saints under the New Covenant whether OT or NT.

So then Moses and Elijah stand with Christ -- in glorty - in Matt 17.... before the cross.

I dont know what you are seeking for. You want to do dead works of law? In old covenant= Who does what the law says shall live by it. In new covenant= Believe in jesus and you shall be saved.

For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16For where a covenant is, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17For a covenant is valid only when men are dead, for it is never in force while the one who made it lives. hebrews 9

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away. hebrews 8:13

We are servants of new covenant. And what that actually means in our lifes: We no longer focus to works of law, but rather to live in spirit and in faith.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1

fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5

Bro.T · Dec 5, 2020

jhjhh said:
Because ministry of spirit is greater in glory.

6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, engraved in letters on stones, came with glory so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory in this case has no glory, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.

12 Therefore, having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech, 13 and we are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the sons of Israel would not stare at the end of what was fading away. 14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts; 16 but whenever someone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 2 cor 3

You didn't quote the chapter, but I do recall what Paul is saying here. What you have to understand is when Paul talks about the old letter, the old covenant that's referred to priesthood which consist of the animal sacrificial law and the other laws which the priesthood have to deal with, not the royal law. Now when Pauls says much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. Let's deal with this ministry of righteousness and see what Paul is talking about here. Let's go to Romans 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. This is how you excel in glory.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. If you understand what Paul is saying here you will see it connects with exactly what you post, because Paul is saying the same thing in another way.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Didn't you quote Paul saying this in 2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts; This is a carnally minded a good example of a carnal minded person. Ones who hardened their hearts and or mind. But let's see why in the next verse...

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. See if have to understand which laws Paul is talking about when you quoting Paul's writing. Didn't Paul say in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. The law is what separate the saint from the sinner.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. So if you continue kicking against the royal laws, statutes and Judgements, in the flesh which you are, you will not be able to please God.

jhjhh said:
And i can tell you, we dont have same mind. My understanding and the way I think is different than yours.

Of course it is different, I don't recall saying it's the same, but according to the word of God it should be the same. Why? because the bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord , one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5). One last place...Let's go to the future in Isaiah 2: 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Notice the Laws are still there, even in the future. I hope that you get some understanding and not kick against this thing and try to learn more. peace in Jesus name

Bro.T · Dec 5, 2020

BobRyan said:
All sin is willful

I understand your point concerning sin, but all sin is not willful sin. Let's go back and read those verses Paul says in Hebrews 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. (v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. If all sin was willful sin the room to repent would be zero.

Let's get a couple examples concerning willful sin.

Let's go to Revelation 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Notice there were no Judgement for them.

Let's take another look at this willful sinning. Let's go into Romans 1: 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 or this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So these are example of willful sin, and if you notice these two example those people taught other people sin and they knew the truth. Another thing to point out, these both example, not only did they have knowledge, wisdom and understand of God, but they turn to worship the creature.

BobRyan said:
1 Cor 10
13 No temptation has overtaken you except something common to mankind; and God is faithful, so He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

Heb 12
Therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let’s rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that sin not. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather suffer the wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves do wrong and defraud. And this to your brothers and sisters!
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

jhjhh · Dec 5, 2020

Bro.T said:
You didn't quote the chapter, but I do recall what Paul is saying here. What you have to understand is when Paul talks about the old letter, the old covenant that's referred to priesthood which consist of the animal sacrificial law and the other laws which the priesthood have to deal with, not the royal law. Now when Pauls says much more does the ministry of righteousness excel in glory. Let's deal with this ministry of righteousness and see what Paul is talking about here. Let's go to Romans 8: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. This is how you excel in glory.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. If you understand what Paul is saying here you will see it connects with exactly what you post, because Paul is saying the same thing in another way.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Didn't you quote Paul saying this in 2 Corinthians 3:14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts; This is a carnally minded a good example of a carnal minded person. Ones who hardened their hearts and or mind. But let's see why in the next verse...

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. See if have to understand which laws Paul is talking about when you quoting Paul's writing. Didn't Paul say in (Rom. 4:15) Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. If there is no law there is no sin. The law is what separate the saint from the sinner.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. So if you continue kicking against the royal laws, statutes and Judgements, in the flesh which you are, you will not be able to please God.

Of course it is different, I don't recall saying it's the same, but according to the word of God it should be the same. Why? because the bible speaks of only one way to get eternal salvation. "One Lord , one faith, one baptism" (Ephesians 4:5). One last place...Let's go to the future in Isaiah 2: 1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.

Notice the Laws are still there, even in the future. I hope that you get some understanding and not kick against this thing and try to learn more. peace in Jesus name

To be honest this start to irritate me. . If i dont you keep teaching this slavery stuff to other people. Actually im displeased with god, let him find another one. Again have to deal with some irritating spirit, oppressing and causing me feel disgusted.

jhjhh · Dec 6, 2020

Bro.T said:
Lets go into (Rom. 13:7-10) (v.7) Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (v.8) Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

That’s the biblical definition of love, the keeping of God’s law.

So utterly twisted. IF YOU LOVE YOU WILL BY DOING SO ALSO FULLFILL THE LAW. What apostles exhort us to do? for love? Or keeping the law? Be silent already.

BobRyan · Dec 6, 2020

All sin is willful

1 Cor 10
13 No temptation has overtaken you except something common to mankind; and God is faithful, so He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

Heb 12
Therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let’s rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that sin not. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather suffer the wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves do wrong and defraud. And this to your brothers and sisters!
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.[/QUOTE]

Bro.T said:
I understand your point concerning sin, but all sin is not willful sin. Let's go back and read those verses Paul says in Hebrews 10: (v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

The context for the word is what makes the difference ... In 1 Cor 10 -- no sin , no temptation is excluded. "There is no temptation but such as is common to man and God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond that which you are able to bear, but will with the temptation provide a way of escape".

Bro.T said:
Rom 1
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

So these are example of willful sin, and if you notice these two example those people taught other people sin and they knew the truth. Another thing to point out, these both example, not only did they have knowledge, wisdom and understand of God, but they turn to worship the creature.

Indeed Rom 1:32 is a context of outright open rebellion. 1 Cor 10 is not. Not all sin is full on rebellion as 1 John 2:1 shows us even though 1 John 3:4 all sin no matter what "is transgression of the Law".

Bro.T · Dec 6, 2020

jhjhh said:
So utterly twisted. IF YOU LOVE YOU WILL BY DOING SO ALSO FULLFILL THE LAW. What apostles exhort us to do? for love? Or keeping the law? Be silent already.

People relate love to emotions and they base it on terms of feeling. The problem with this is when feeling change so does ones love. The love that God requires of man is one of will. And this love is a deliberate attitude whereas circumstances and changes in situations do not impact ones actions.
In examining the scriptures one will find that God is clear in describing how man is to love Him. And while the bible shows a broad spectrum of love the love that God requires from man is well defined and is based on obedience.

The religious leaders were constantly questioning Jesus in order to test Him and on this occasion a lawyer asked Jesus what is the great commandment?

Matthew (22:35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,

(36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus reply was the 1st great commandment was to love God and the 2nd was to love ones neighbor. These were given as a commandment for man to love.

Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

(38) This is the first and great commandment.

(39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

One should note that by following the 1st and 2nd great commandment they will be adhering to the 10 commandments issued by Moses. If they love the Lord they won’t have any other Gods before him, or make any graven images or take his name in vain, they will remember his Sabbath and if they love their neighbor they will honor their Father and Mother and they won’t kill or commit adultery or steal or bear false witness nor will they covet. This is why Jesus goes on to state that on these two commandments hang the law and the prophets. Because by fulfilling these two commandments one fulfills the law.

(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus stated that these 2 commandments where the 2 great commandments however the following verses will show that these commandments were not new and that the Jews and Jesus was speaking to were aware of them. These were the same ones issued to Israel by Moses.

Deuteronomy (6:5) And thy shall love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus (19:18) Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Now that it has been established that man was commanded to love one needs to examine the scriptures to get an understanding of the love required in these great commandments. In the following verses Moses is telling the Israelites that God chose them strictly out of His love for them.

Deuteronomy (7:7) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

(8) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

(9) Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Note in verse (9) Moses states a condition that God requires in order for Him to keep covenant and have mercy. And that is an individual must love God and keep His commandments. The scriptures will show that there is only one way to love God and that is by keeping His commandments.

Note that Jesus states in the following verse that in order to love Him one has to keep His commandments.

John (14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jesus further defines the love He requires when He states in the following verse that those who have His commandments and keep them are those that love Him. One does not have to guess at Jesus definition of love He made it clear.

John (14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jesus also reinforced what was said in Deuteronomy verse (9) by adding that those that love Him will be loved by the Father. How does one love Jesus? by keeping His commandments and Moses said God will keep covenant and have mercy with those who keep His commandments. So therefore by following Jesus one shall receive love from Him as well as mercy from the Father.

Note in these scriptures it did not say those who profess their love for Jesus or those that claim that Jesus knows what in their heart. Jesus made a clear and direct statement if one has His commandments and keeps them they are the ones who love Him. The statement that Jesus made as well as the condition Moses gave in Deuteronomy verse (9) were based on behalf of an individuals actions not their feeling or emotions or conditions. To exhibit love towards Jesus one must engage in a specific action and that action is being obedience to the word of God. And one will see that they are to be obedient regardless of their feeling or the surrounding circumstances.

Jesus states again in the following verses what is required of an individual to receive His love.

John (15:9) As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

The above verse shows to be loved of Jesus one needs to be obedient. Jesus also states in verse (10) that He was obedient to the Father by keeping His commandments and therefore abides in His love. Now Jesus is the example man is to follow and just as He was obedient to the word of God we have to be obedient to God’s word.

Paul said in 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Rightly dividing the true starts from Genesis to Revelation.

Bro.T · Dec 6, 2020

BobRyan said:
All sin is willful

1 Cor 10
13 No temptation has overtaken you except something common to mankind; and God is faithful, so He will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

Heb 12
Therefore, since we also have such a great cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let’s rid ourselves of every obstacle and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let’s run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking only at Jesus, the originator and perfecter of the faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons,

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that sin not. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather suffer the wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves do wrong and defraud. And this to your brothers and sisters!
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

BobRyan said:
The context for the word is what makes the difference ... In 1 Cor 10 -- no sin , no temptation is excluded. "There is no temptation but such as is common to man and God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond that which you are able to bear, but will with the temptation provide a way of escape".

You using this verse in reference to those people saying God made them sin?

BobRyan said:
Indeed Rom 1:32 is a context of outright open rebellion. 1 Cor 10 is not. Not all sin is full on rebellion as 1 John 2:1 shows us even though 1 John 3:4 all sin no matter what "is transgression of the Law".

That's right bro, the book say For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. (1 samuel 15:23)

BobRyan · Dec 6, 2020

BobRyan said: ↑
Indeed Rom 1:32 is a context of outright open rebellion.

1 Cor 10 is not.

Not all sin is full on rebellion as 1 John 2:1 shows us

even though 1 John 3:4 all sin no matter what "is transgression of the Law

Bro.T said:
That's right bro, the book say For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. (1 samuel 15:23)

This is why I say that while it is true from 1 Cor 10 that all sin is willful - because "God is faithful" who will "not allow you to be tempted beyond that which you are able - but will with the temptation provide the way of escape" - so then when we sin it is not God's fault - it is ours for not taking that way of escape.

Yet that failing is not the full on rebellion of Rom 1:32.

Another way to look at it is that in 1 Cor 5 - one man is in open rebellion and will not be corrected... and the rest of the church while certainly not sinless (as we see in 1Cor 6) -- is not in open rebellion and will submit to correction.

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