Where do You Draw the Line?

Where do you draw the line?

  • I belive that all of YHWH's instructions must be honored as they apply.

    Votes: 11 50.0%
  • I belive that only those instructions that were quoted in the Gospels are applicable.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I belive that only those instructions that were quoted in the Gospels , plus the Ten Commandments.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I belive only those instructions which are quoted in the NT are applicable.

    Votes: 1 4.5%
  • I belive only those instructions which are quoted in the NT, plus the Ten commandments.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I believe that we are saved by grace; and we can do whatever we want.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Other: explain

    Votes: 10 45.5%

  • Total voters
    22

Carl Emerson

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The young ruler, like so many others we are warned about, was deceived into believing something about himself that was not true. We know he placed his riches before God by the reaction he had to the Christ’s request. He had failed in keeping the first and greatest commandment in the law. For you to say he has “fully kept the law” is to ignore his works all together. Jesus said we would know men by their works, not their words.

Every self proclaimed Christian on the planet claims obedience to the Christ. In the examples written for our admonition, the Pharisees claimed obedience to God, King Saul claimed obedience to God. But in both cases, just as with the example you used, we know by their works that they believed a lie.

In Is. 58, God inspired Isaiah to speak of the Sabbath fast. Not from food, but from the world. There is a sentence which reads “And that thy not hide thyself from thine own flesh”.

Had this young ruler submitted to God’s Sabbath as did Zacharias, he would not have deceived his own self.

How can you truly teach others this man “fully kept the law” when it is clear he lived in violation of the first and greatest commandment, according to the Words of Christ Himself?

So your assertion is that the rich young ruler was lying...

You could be correct but Jesus doesn't respond as if he is.

What He does do is present a challenge to follow personally - a requirement that was beyond what the Law demanded.

Jesus Himself did this supremely doing only what He saw the Father doing.

That is exactly what I am encouraging others to do.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Yes, poor choice of words on my part, I apologise.

What He did do - and what I meant to say - is He came to abolish the consequences of not keeping the Law, (which no ordinary man could keep) having taken that for us on the Cross, taking the curse of the Law for us.
 
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HARK!

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He came to abolish the consequences of not keeping the Law, (which no ordinary man could keep)

(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

(CLV) Jb 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz. Job was his name. This man was flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and keeping away from evil.
 
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Carl Emerson

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(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

(CLV) Jb 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz. Job was his name. This man was flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and keeping away from evil.

Like I said no ordinary man could keep the Law.

The ones you mention are far from ordinary.

Now sinners through repentance, and what Jesus did in keeping the Law, qualify in His righteousness for God's great mercy and eternal life.
 
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Carl Emerson

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(CLV) Lk 1:5
There came to be, in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zechariah, of the routine of Abiah, and his wife, of the daughters of Aaron, and her name is Elizabeth.

(CLV) Lk 1:6
Now they were both just in front of God, going in all the precepts and just statutes of the Lord, blameless.

(CLV) Jb 1:1
There was a man in the land of Uz. Job was his name. This man was flawless and upright, fearing Elohim and keeping away from evil.

By the way you might have noticed that Job was considered righteous concerning the Law but still had to repent...
 
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Studyman

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Deut 28 - The Law with the blessings and the curses which Jesus abolished on the Cross.

Are you suggesting that these Laws with their blessing and curses were written by men and not by God?

I am suggesting we allow God to define His Laws and accept His Definition. You are calling God's Law a curse. God does not, especially in the Word's of God you chose to use.

Duet 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.

4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.

6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.

11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

I asked you to show me where God's Laws, written by HIM, are the enemy of man. I asked for you to show me where God's Laws, Written by HIM, are against Paul, Jews and Gentiles. You responded by quoting Duet. 28. I have posted the Word's of the Great God of Abraham, Word's from your own Bible, in which God defines the result of men who "hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God". There is no mention of God's Law being the enemy, or the curse.

Where is the Enemy Carl? Where is the Laws of God shown to be "Against" us in Duet 28?

Where does the "Curse" come from Carl? From striving to walk in the instructions of the Lord our God as HE Commands? That is the implication of your religious philosophy here. But what does God say the curse is? What does HE say is our enemy?

Duet. 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.

22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

As I posted, what law was being promoted by the only God of Abraham preachers known in Paul's time? Who said Gentiles were "without hope and without God in this World"? Not God Carl.

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Think about this for a minute. Jesus said HE came to save the lost children of Israel. You imply here that they were lost because they strive with all their heart to walk in the instructions of their God who saved them, as HE instructed.

But if I would turn to the God of the Bible, I would learn something else.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

How did these Shepherds do this? By teaching the Laws of God as HE instructed them to do? Are you suggesting that these sheep were led astray because their Shepherds taught them to "hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God"?

Or did these Shepherds God placed over them, corrupt themselves and teach for Doctrines the Commandments of Men, as the Lord's Christ told us?

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

If the Shepherds God placed over His People were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men that led them astray, are not these who HE made a show of openly, and not HIS Father as you imply?

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Are you preaching to the world that Jesus "spoiled" His Father? That HE was the principality and power that through HIS instruction, caused Israel to be led astray? That Jesus made a show of God openly by exposing HIM as a fraud, and fighting against God His Father, and becoming triumphant over HIM?

No my friend, the commandments contained in ordinances that were against Paul, Gentiles and Jews, were not the Commandments of God that Zechariahs, Simeon and Anna walked in. They were the Commandments of Men Jesus said taught for doctrines.

At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Think about this for a time and consider what is actually written.

And thanks for the reply. This is important stuff.
 
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HARK!

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By the way you might have noticed that Job was considered righteous concerning the Law but still had to repent...

If we have truly repented we remain obedient to YHWH's law.
 
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Studyman

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By the way you might have noticed that Job was considered righteous concerning the Law but still had to repent...

All have sinned Carl. We are all in the same place before God. To repent from sin is a righteous work. To be sorry for wrong doing is a righteous emotion. To submit to God's Righteousness over our own is true humility. Your implication that in order to be made perfect, Jesus must first remove His Father's Own Righteous instruction, can not be supported by Scripture.

Jesus Himself learned obedience through the things HE suffered. Did God remove His instruction in HIS Love for His only Son? Are we not also tempted in all ways as Him?

I hope you might consider these things.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I am suggesting we allow God to define His Laws and accept His Definition. You are calling God's Law a curse. God does not, especially in the Word's of God you chose to use.

Duet 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.

4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.

6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.

11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

I asked you to show me where God's Laws, written by HIM, are the enemy of man. I asked for you to show me where God's Laws, Written by HIM, are against Paul, Jews and Gentiles. You responded by quoting Duet. 28. I have posted the Word's of the Great God of Abraham, Word's from your own Bible, in which God defines the result of men who "hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God". There is no mention of God's Law being the enemy, or the curse.

Where is the Enemy Carl? Where is the Laws of God shown to be "Against" us in Duet 28?

Where does the "Curse" come from Carl? From striving to walk in the instructions of the Lord our God as HE Commands? That is the implication of your religious philosophy here. But what does God say the curse is? What does HE say is our enemy?

Duet. 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.

22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

As I posted, what law was being promoted by the only God of Abraham preachers known in Paul's time? Who said Gentiles were "without hope and without God in this World"? Not God Carl.

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Think about this for a minute. Jesus said HE came to save the lost children of Israel. You imply here that they were lost because they strive with all their heart to walk in the instructions of their God who saved them, as HE instructed.

But if I would turn to the God of the Bible, I would learn something else.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

How did these Shepherds do this? By teaching the Laws of God as HE instructed them to do? Are you suggesting that these sheep were led astray because their Shepherds taught them to "hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God"?

Or did these Shepherds God placed over them, corrupt themselves and teach for Doctrines the Commandments of Men, as the Lord's Christ told us?

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

If the Shepherds God placed over His People were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men that led them astray, are not these who HE made a show of openly, and not HIS Father as you imply?

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Are you preaching to the world that Jesus "spoiled" His Father? That HE was the principality and power that through HIS instruction, caused Israel to be led astray? That Jesus made a show of God openly by exposing HIM as a fraud, and fighting against God His Father, and becoming triumphant over HIM?

No my friend, the commandments contained in ordinances that were against Paul, Gentiles and Jews, were not the Commandments of God that Zechariahs, Simeon and Anna walked in. They were the Commandments of Men Jesus said taught for doctrines.

At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Think about this for a time and consider what is actually written.

And thanks for the reply. This is important stuff.

Let me ask you then...

Are we saved by keeping the commandments or by believing in faith???
 
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Studyman

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Please quote where I said that...

"Deut 28 - The Law with the blessings and the curses which Jesus abolished on the Cross."

Let me clarify in the hopes that you might actually engage in a conversation.

The implication of your reply, as it appeared to me, is that the Law of God is against us, implying that it is the Law of God itself that is the curse, thus becoming necessary for Jesus to take His Father's Law out of the way, in order to save us.

Duet. 28 does not reflect the implication in your reply, as it appears to me.

And it would be prudent if you could address the Christ's Own Word's as it pertained to what Law was being taught for doctrines in that time, whether it be the Commandments of Men, or the Commandments of God.
 
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Studyman

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Let me ask you then...

Are we saved by keeping the commandments or by believing in faith???

I asked that you answer a question regarding where you were taught that God's Laws were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles. I asked where the teaching comes from that Jesus made a show of His Father openly, and also inquired about whose Commandments were being taught for Doctrines at that time according to the Lord's Christ.

It seems prudent to establish these things first as a little leaven leavens the whole lump.

It is my understanding that our Faith must be in the God of Abraham, and His Son, including their Word's which are Spirit and Truth.

I am eager to learn and accept Biblical Truth. This is the reason for my inquiry.

Therefore the question, where is your evidence that is was God's Commandments that caused Israel to stumble, that were "against" them, and not the "Commandments of Men" Jesus said the Shepherds of that time taught. for doctrines?

It is truly a matter of faith. Do we believe what the Christ says? Or do we believe doctrines and commandments of men in the religions of the land we are born into?
 
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Carl Emerson

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I asked that you answer a question regarding where you were taught that God's Laws were against Paul, Jews and Gentiles. I asked where the teaching comes from that Jesus made a show of His Father openly, and also inquired about whose Commandments were being taught for Doctrines at that time according to the Lord's Christ.

You seem to want to align me with some heresy...

I will not buy into this.

Lets keep it plain and simple - What do you consider is the Gospel and how does that relate to the Law?
 
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Carl Emerson

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I am suggesting we allow God to define His Laws and accept His Definition. You are calling God's Law a curse. God does not, especially in the Word's of God you chose to use.

Duet 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth:

2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.

3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.

4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.

6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

7 The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.

8 The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.

10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.

11 And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.

12 The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.

13 And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

14 And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.

I asked you to show me where God's Laws, written by HIM, are the enemy of man. I asked for you to show me where God's Laws, Written by HIM, are against Paul, Jews and Gentiles. You responded by quoting Duet. 28. I have posted the Word's of the Great God of Abraham, Word's from your own Bible, in which God defines the result of men who "hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God". There is no mention of God's Law being the enemy, or the curse.

Where is the Enemy Carl? Where is the Laws of God shown to be "Against" us in Duet 28?

Where does the "Curse" come from Carl? From striving to walk in the instructions of the Lord our God as HE Commands? That is the implication of your religious philosophy here. But what does God say the curse is? What does HE say is our enemy?

Duet. 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:

16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field.

17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store.

18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.

20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.

21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.

22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.

As I posted, what law was being promoted by the only God of Abraham preachers known in Paul's time? Who said Gentiles were "without hope and without God in this World"? Not God Carl.

Is. 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Think about this for a minute. Jesus said HE came to save the lost children of Israel. You imply here that they were lost because they strive with all their heart to walk in the instructions of their God who saved them, as HE instructed.

But if I would turn to the God of the Bible, I would learn something else.

Jer. 50:6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

How did these Shepherds do this? By teaching the Laws of God as HE instructed them to do? Are you suggesting that these sheep were led astray because their Shepherds taught them to "hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God"?

Or did these Shepherds God placed over them, corrupt themselves and teach for Doctrines the Commandments of Men, as the Lord's Christ told us?

Mal. 2:7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9 Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.

If the Shepherds God placed over His People were teaching for Doctrines the Commandments of men that led them astray, are not these who HE made a show of openly, and not HIS Father as you imply?

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Are you preaching to the world that Jesus "spoiled" His Father? That HE was the principality and power that through HIS instruction, caused Israel to be led astray? That Jesus made a show of God openly by exposing HIM as a fraud, and fighting against God His Father, and becoming triumphant over HIM?

No my friend, the commandments contained in ordinances that were against Paul, Gentiles and Jews, were not the Commandments of God that Zechariahs, Simeon and Anna walked in. They were the Commandments of Men Jesus said taught for doctrines.

At least according to the Christ of the Bible.

Think about this for a time and consider what is actually written.

And thanks for the reply. This is important stuff.
A lot of this is missing the context of the passages, especially in that the law given to Moses was for a specific purpose and tied to a specific set of promises, and is impossible to fulfill in any manner today because there is no king, there is no temple, and there is no priesthood in Israel to administer the covenant. When Christ said He came not to abolish it was not merely "the law" that He spoke of, but "the law and the prophets" which has a specific meaning to it and is not necessarily speaking of statutes and ordinances but to the Scriptures themselves. It is essentially a declaration of what He explained to the 2 on the road to Emmaus, that He and His mission are what Scripture is about, and not a statement of a persistance to the sinai covenant. Paul's writing is salacious in how he speaks, using somewhat inflammatory language, but the essence of his arguments remain in that Christ has fulfilled the foundational purpose of what was revealed to the prophets.
 
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Studyman

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You seem to want to align me with some heresy...

I will not buy into this.

Lets keep it plain and simple - What do you consider is the Gospel and how does that relate to the Law?

That’s OK Carl,

You are not interested in an actual discussion of what the Scriptures say, nor are you willing to answer very simple questions.

I don’t agree that it is heresy to answer Biblical questions, nor to ask them.

The Gospel of Christ is found in the Holy Scriptures. This is why I asked questions pertaining to them. I find your refusal to engage fascinating, but not unusual.

Thanks for opportunity to ask.
 
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Studyman

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I note you want to imply that I am in heresy...

By your tone I have little confidence that this dialogue will end well...

I am not about to succumb to some cranky legalistic jargon on the internet - I have been on the road with Him too long for that.

Wow, and all because I asked you to support your religious philosophy with Scripture.
 
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