The Two Beasts of Revealtion

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Yes, you have spoken to me on these lines before. I partly agree with the things you say, but I also partly disagree. I do not believe that "beasts" refer to spiritual powers, but to literal political powers in the world, even though these have spiritual powers behind them.

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I do not believe you have spiritual discernment to understand what God is actually talked about in Daniel 7 here. You have a carnal mind, brainwashed by traditional interpretations, thinking God is talking about some literal world empires or "political powers" in history.

I've studied this enough to know that this is not true. When we examine the Scriptures more carefully we see that God is not interested in history lessons of worldly empires, but is illustrating spiritual truths.

Daniel 7:2-3

• "Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
• And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another."

God has inspired these truths to be written in cryptic symbolism. For example, patterned after four literal ruling Kingdoms (Babylon, Persian, Greece and Rome), but symbolizing a spiritual rule in the earth. These four beasts are spiritual pictures of the construct from which Satan rules, which is through carnal man. In other words, the four beasts actually symbolize systemic carnal world rule. In fact, in Revelation chapter 13 we can see these very same beasts pictured as one single beast that has all the aspects of these four beasts illustrated in Daniel chapter 7.

The number four in verse 2 is to symbolize the "universality" of this rule of Satan over the peoples of the world which the sea represents. Not specifical political borders of the nations or empires somewhere in Europe or Asia. The number 4 symbolizes universality. The beasts are kings, which symbolize rules. The wind many times is synonymous with spirit, and by this prophesy referring to "the four winds of the heaven," it implies the Holy Spirit. Horns are symbolic of power and strength. The winds of heaven here is an illustration that God ultimately controls all the universe, both good and bad (Revelation 7:7). The sea is the tumultuous world or peoples of the world, often spoken of as humanity. And the beasts that came up from THAT sea "symbolize" epocs, dominions that successively emerge from the tumultuous disturbances of the world (mimicking the tumultuous sea -As Isaiah 13:4). Not empires. Even when Christ calmed the tumultuous sea it was illustrating His rule over the wicked forces of the world that would destroy His disciples in their ship (Church). See? These four kings symbolize their universal rule. Diverse or different because they differ in symbolism, purpose, and strength.

the dragon is not the same as the beast. The language tells us that the beast receives its seat, its power and great autthroity from the dragon.

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Look, the beasts of Revelation 13 and 17 are a figure or representation of the body of Satan, the spiritual kingdom of Satan as "the god of this world." For example, when it says locusts are loosed from the bottomless pit, that is a figure signifying those who are of Satan coming forth on the earth through his spirit. Not literal or simi-literal or physical locusts out of hell with Satan, or an invasion from China, but actual people who rise up through the power or spirit of Satan. They are simply people with the antichrist spirit coming forth through that power of Satan.

Please think about it. Just as those of the Spirit of Christ (Christians) are spiritually Christ's body. Likewise, the unsaved people are, spiritually speaking, Satan's body! They are seen by God as the beast because they are the body of Satan, get it? The beast represents Satan's carnal kingdom, those who are his children and his ministers. Not some soldiers from Greece or Rome. Get it?! Satan personified as this beast representing his kingdom. The Dragon, which is Satan himself, gives the beast or his kingdom its power (Revelation 13:4). This signifying Satan gives them their strength. The strength to overcome the Saints! Selah!

Just as the four beasts (more literally, four living creatures) of Revelation are a figure or representation of the body of Christ (Revelation 4:6), the spiritual Kingdom of God in heaven. The Lamb (God Himself) gives these living creatures their power! Selah! Likewise with four beasts of Daniel are a figure or representation of the body of Satan, the spiritual KIngdom of Darkness. The Dragon (Satan himself) gives these four beasts his power. Ring a bell?

We see in this diverse cryptic imagery the figures of the true Christ Kingdom versus the figure of the anti-Christ kingdom, the substitute or pseudo Kingdom. Satan is the adversary, and his kingdom of darkness is masquerading as a kingdom of light. But instead of bringing life, it has been going forth as an adversary to kill the prophets of God.

Psalms 74:9-10

• "We see not our signs: there is no more any prophet: neither is there among us any that knoweth how long.
• O God, how long shall the adversary reproach? shall the enemy blaspheme thy name for ever?"

How long indeed! There is an appointed time that the Lord will avenge the prophets upon this beast. The beast of Revelation 17 is Satan's carnal kingdom on earth. It is a body aligned with the "god of this world," in opposition to the heavenly body aligned with the true God. It spiritually represents the Antichrist dominion, reign, or principality. Thus the mark of the beast is a spiritual (not physical) sign that those receiving it have been made slaves or servants of this ruler and part of his body. In other words, the mark signifies that they belong to him. Just as slaves were once marked or branded in this country during the civil war, so those of the beast is "spiritually marked" as possessions and servants of Satan. Likewise, we, as believers, are spiritually marked as possessions and servants of God. We are his slaves becasue we are doing His Will. Likewise, the enemies who are sealed in their hand and forehead by the beast signifying their will and mind. Get it?

The Bible is always consistent with its own symbolism and in Daniel 7 we are told what "beasts" symbolize. It's not what you believe they symbolize.

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What differs between us is that I have spiritual discernment while you have a carnal mind. One sees what God interprets in symbolics in His Word, while others are busy looking for interpretations in world history...just like the Jews of Old. Nothing new under the sun.

I'm not unhappy with you because you and I don't agree on that, so I hope you're not unhappy with me.

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The Lord judges and I are comfortable with that. I will testify what is truth. Many shall be offended.

Again, you need to understand that the "empires" of Babylon, Persia, Greece, and Rome were the enemies of the Old Testament Congregation of Israel as an example for us today. It is not something that we will expect a visible empire showing up that makes up of all those ancient empires. The kingdom representative was taken from National Israel for their rejection of Messiah the Prince, and gave it to the Church which now bringing forth the fruits (people being saved by the Gospel).

Mat 21:42-43
(42) Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
(43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

After the Cross, the New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church, is now a representation of God's Kingdom. Who do you think our enemies are today? Who and where are they? Do you think Christ was warning us about some invading forces from particular countries against us? Or did Christ talk about the rise of false prophets and christs among us in God's congregation? Christ has already told us the answer, Matthew 24:11-13. They are the beast - the body of Satan.

TribulationSigns said:

I do not believe you have spiritual discernment to understand what God is actually talked about in Daniel 7 here. You have a carnal mind, brainwashed by traditional interpretations, thinking God is talking about some literal world empires or "political powers" in history.

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That's fine. Then there is no point in us discussing it.

Marilyn C said:

One difference - The Roman Empire has been judged and will rise no more. It will be the Assyrian the leader of the Islamic Empire that deceives the rest of the Federations of the world.

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I tend to agree with the above statement, and what concerns me is the big strides toward peace and the normalization of relations between two peoples who declare "God has no son"/"Allah has no son"; and "Jesus did not rise again from the dead and He did not die for the sins of the world".

Many see that as great strides toward world peace, but how long before the two peoples who are opposed to the gospel plot together to stamp out Christianity?

"Why do the nations rage, and the peoples meditate on a vain thing?
The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers plot together, against the LORD and against His anointed, saying,
Let us break their bands in two and cast away their cords from us.
He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; the LORD shall mock at them.
Then He shall speak to them in His anger, and trouble them in His wrath.
Yea, I have set My king on My holy hill, on Zion.

I will declare the decree of the LORD. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You.
Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession.
You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel." (Psalm 2:1-9)

Marilyn C said:

The final Gentile Global Government, (as God has told us, Dan. 2) consists of a Political, Economic and Religious aspect.

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God said this, really? Or you private interpreted as usual?

1. Political - We are told that the Political aspect comes from the `sea of humanity,` (`the wicked are like the troubled sea.` Isa. 57: 20) The beastly kingdom (rule of the Gentiles) is headed up by a leader. That is the one who seems to be killed and stages a false resurrection.

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You were "told" that the political aspect comes from the "sea of humanity"?? Scripture, please. Isa 57:20 does not say that. This has nothing to do with political government or empire. It is unsaved people - Humanity. They are slaves of Satan.

2. Economic & Religious

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. We see that the second beastly person holds these two offices. Emerging from the `earth` reveals that the philosophy is based on the earthly, sensual & demonic, (James 3: 15)

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Sigh.... Where did God define "earth" as philosophy? Scripture please. Do you know what bible exegesis is? I do not think you practiced it.

TribulationSigns said:

God said this, really? Or you private interpreted as usual?



You were "told" that the political aspect comes from the "sea of humanity"?? Scripture, please. Isa 57:20 does not say that. This has nothing to do with political government or empire. It is unsaved people - Humanity. They are slaves of Satan.



Sigh.... Where did God define "earth" as philosophy? Scripture please. Do you know what bible exegesis is? I do not think you practiced it.

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I think you avatar says it all - bully. How about asking instead of condemning & accusing.

God says in His word `that the wicked are like the troubled sea..` (Isa. 57: 20) That symbolic picture is used in Rev. 13 from where the final Gentile Global Government comes from.

`And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea..` (Rev. 13: 1)

The prophet Daniel tells us there will be a final Gentile global Government. (Dan. 2: 41 - 44) And that will be just before the Lord Himself sets up His kingdom rule through Israel. (Dan. 2: 44 & 45, 7: 26 & 27)

Also in Daniel we see that `beasts` are kingdoms, thus political entities.

The `earth,` is another symbol for the origin of the next beast`s powers.

`And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth...` (Rev. 13: 11)

James speaking of wisdom, refers to self -seeking and boasting against the truth. This is exactly what we see this person do as he points towards the lawless one and not towards God.

`He deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.` (Rev. 13: 14)

James goes as far to say that those who are self -seeking and boasting against the truth do not have `wisdom from above but is earthly, sensual, demonic.` (James 3: 15)

That `earthly `wisdom is man`s/demonic philosophy in relation to religion, (worship the lawless one) and to economics, (buying & selling) through power, & control over money. (economy)

God interprets His own symbols.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

I tend to agree with the above statement, and what concerns me is the big strides toward peace and the normalization of relations between two peoples who declare "God has no son"/"Allah has no son"; and "Jesus did not rise again from the dead and He did not die for the sins of the world".

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Well one of those groups is going to have it's religion decimated/discredited when Gog/Magog takes place.

The other group is going to turn to Jesus in the middle of the 7 years, after their honeymoon with the Antichrist as their messiah to dissolve Christianity ends in disaster.

Judaism claims that Christianity will simply fade away in the present of their King of Israel/messiah.

1st beast has 10 horns - it's spiritual Israel in captivity.
2nd beast has 2 horns - it's spiritual Judah and Benjamin in captivity.

The 11th horn comes out of the 10 horns.

Marilyn C said:

God says in His word `that the wicked are like the troubled sea..` (Isa. 57: 20) That symbolic picture is used in Rev. 13 from where the final Gentile Global Government comes from.

`And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea..` (Rev. 13: 1)

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So your private interpretation insisted that the "troubled sea" is to be understood by God as the "Gentile Global Government?" Ahem!

Show me the scripture where God said it.

The prophet Daniel tells us there will be a final Gentile global Government. (Dan. 2: 41 - 44) And that will be just before the Lord Himself sets up His kingdom rule through Israel. (Dan. 2: 44 & 45, 7: 26 & 27)

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Next time, learn to quote Scripture and be prepared to explain:

Dan 2:41-44
(41) And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
(42) And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
(43) And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
(44) And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

So is it your private interpretation that the feet and toes of potters' clay and iron are Gentile Global Government? Have you even check what iron and clay represent in Scripture? Humm? You can't just say, 'oh that is Gentile Global GOvernment" without actually compare Scripture with Scripture first which you need to work on.

Also in Daniel we see that `beasts` are kingdoms, thus political entities.

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Incorrect. The beast is a SPIRITUAL kingdom making up of unsaved people of the WHOLE WORLD. A beast coming out of the SEA. Not about a specific nation or empire with a political border. Silly!

The `earth,` is another symbol for the origin of the next beast`s powers.

`And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth...` (Rev. 13: 11)

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Oh boy. I think you need to go back to Daniel first and think carefully.

Daniel 7:17-18

• "These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
• But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever."

Here we have God illustrating these four beasts, and clearly declared that the saints of the most high shall take their kingdom. What Kingdom is this? Come on! It certainly cannot be the literal nations of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Media, Greece, or Rome. For though four kingdoms (four beasts) or tyrant rulers would invade Israel (woman of Revelation 12), bring her into captivity, usurp and treat her violently until the coming of John, yet Israel would be delivered and restored by Christ, a man-child. But not the "Literal nation Israel" but the spiritual nation Israel which suffered violence from the spiritual kingdom of Satan, which these nations merely "represented." Get it?! You got wrong Israel. You got the wrong Kingdom because you are thinking about everything physically.

Do you realize that both the sea and the earth are symbolic? For example, The earth and the sea both represent humanity, and the beast comes up out of these unsaved people. Not a particular country or empire with a political border. Where do you find in Scripture that the earth, both in the context of Daniel 7 and Revelation 13, represents the "government" of a particular country? Hello? That is where you have lacked biblical exegesis.

Moreover, in Revelation 13, the second beast coming out of the Earth with two horns like a lamb represents people come up from the world into the congregation pretend to have the power (spirit) of Christ. This beast is a body of false prophets and christs out of the unsaved humanity to come into God's congregation - the camps of the Saints! So Satan gathers the false prophets and christs from four corners of the earth and gives them the power to overcome and comes against the camp of the Saints everywhere on Earth. Again... this beast is a body of unsaved people coming up into the Congregation of God used by HIm as a judgment upon unfaithful harlot.

Well, if you think the beast is a one physical world government and/or the unfaithful external church is not Babylon the Great, then you totally misunderstood what God talked about in Scripture.

Fullness of the Gentiles said:

Sounds like the false prophet = the antichrist, because he is the 8th king and the beast ascended out of the abyss and goes to perdition.

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Well there is a FP, and people keep calling him the AC.

Timtofly said:

Well there is a FP, and people keep calling him the AC.

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Not everyone. Hence my post.

TribulationSigns said:

So your private interpretation insisted that the "troubled sea" is to be understood by God as the "Gentile Global Government?" Ahem!

Show me the scripture where God said it.

Next time, learn to quote Scripture and be prepared to explain:

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I think you need to stop `huffing & puffing,` & being so rude. It not only reveals your bad attitude but you poor understanding of scripture that you feel you have to put some one down to bolster your own ego. How about just asking polite questions.

Even to day we hear the term, `there was a sea of people at the concert.`
Obviously before God sets up His kingdom rule through Israel he has given the Gentiles the opportunity to show how they rule - the times of the Gentiles (ruling the world).

Dan. 2`s great image starts with the Gentile King Neb, whom God set up and there follows 4 other Gentile world rulers. Rev. 13 comprises the 4 beastly kingdoms of Dan. 7 which are contemporary to each other and in the time when the Lord sets up His kingdom rule through Israel.

If you want details, then please ask and not be such a `bully.`

Marilyn C said:

Even to day we hear the term, `there was a sea of people at the concert.`

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You need to learn to get God's Definition of the "sea" in Scripture. Not a concert.

Obviously before God sets up His kingdom rule through Israel he has given the Gentiles the opportunity to show how they rule - the times of the Gentiles (ruling the world).

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LOL. Obviously not. God rules through HIS "Israel." Not national Israel, but spiritual Israel (Elect believers) starting with the Old Testament Israel then the New Testament Israel, the church. God's kingdom has nothing to do with the world, the government, or Gentiles nations. It is PEOPLE redeemed from the "sea" - humanity. Try to learn to check with Scripture first:

Joh 18:36
(36) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Dan. 2`s great image starts with the Gentile King Neb

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Oh? Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon? That was who you thought Daniel directed his prophecy against? Really?

Dan 2:37-38
(37) Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory.
(38) And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

It is a MISTAKE to try and seek interpretations outside the Scripture, especially as is often done by assigning the anti-types to various historical figures. God doesn't expend spiritual imagery over historical kingdoms, except where those kingdoms were merely a type for spiritual kingdoms, whether it's Christ's or Satan's.

Because history is so vast and can accommodate practically any spin to make it fit the imagery in the Bible it should be avoided as an end-to-itself as an interpretation. This is how we have A.D. 70 and Titus the focus of the Preterists' interpretations of eschatological events. It's why we have modern Israel, Russia, and Iran the theme of Dispensationalists - it is a common error that yields an improper interpretation, and universally one that involves earthly things rather than spiritual. Selah!

So, while we can discuss the interpretations of Christ's imagery: Lions, Lambs, Man, and Eagle's wings or in Satan's case: Lion with eagle's wings, Bears, a winged Leopard, and a fourth Beast, we should remember that the proper interpretation will be in harmony with Scripture itself. We can not claim that we have arrived at truth simply because we've forced various types to fit some historical scenario as you have done so.

ANYWAY.... undoubtedly, God was recognizing Nebuchadnezzar’s great power and dominion in this prophecy. However, he was also using Nebuchadnezzar to represent someone else. Daniel said the head of gold ruled over all people and over all the beasts of the earth and birds of the sky. Clearly, the scope of this rule is much wider than any earthly king has ever achieved, even King Nebuchadnezzar!

There is a king in the spiritual realm, however, who did attain such rule. He is Satan. Because he was successful in making Adam and Eve disobey God in the Garden of Eden, he inherited spiritual dominion over the creation. Can you recall Satan’s tempting of Jesus in the wilderness confirms this point? Note how Jesus did not dispute Satan’s claim about the delivery of the nations to him:

Luk 4:5-8
(5) And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
(6) And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.
(7) If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.
(8) And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Of all kings, therefore, only Satan fits the statement: “wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he [the God of heaven] given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.”

Obviously, God was talking about Satan, a spiritual ruler.

, whom God set up and there follows 4 other Gentile world rulers.

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Nope! Nothing to do with "Gentile world rulers"!

Rev. 13 comprises the 4 beastly kingdoms of Dan. 7 which are contemporary to each other and in the time when the Lord sets up His kingdom rule through Israel.

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Nope!

If you want details, then please ask and not be such a `bully.`

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I am not asking you. I am teaching you. You need to read and allow God to interpret his own prophecy, not a history book or your idea of "Gentiles World Rulers".

Davy said:

That's right, the "false prophet" is the same one as the "another beast" of Rev.13:11.

I explain that in other posts. There is another indicator of this that's more solid though. Only the "false prophet" and "beast" go into the "lake of fire" at the end of this present world when Jesus returns, per Revelation 19:20. The "dragon" doesn't go into that lake of fire yet.

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You know I'm an amillennialist, right? I've debated you about that, so I would hope you already know that. So, as an amil, I'm not going to agree with you that the dragon is not cast into the lake of fire at around the same time as the beast and false prophet. I believe the dragon, Satan, is cast into the lake of fire right after the beast and false prophet are.

They are roles because as of yet today, only the devil and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire. No flesh man has been judged to perish in the lake of fire yet. The perishing of the false prophet and beast prior to Judgment Day reveals they cannot be flesh men. And since we also know the "dragon" (Satan) is not destroyed yet at Rev.19:20, that points to the false prophet and beast being roles for the end of this world. And Jesus held the role of Prophet also.

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By saying "no flesh man has been judged to perish in the lake of fire yet", it looks like you're once again trying to promote your false second chance gospel doctrine, but I'm not falling for that. The fate of all of the dead is already sealed. Scripture says that you die once and then look forward to the judgment (Heb 9:27), not that you die once, get another chance at salvation, and then the judgment. It's just a matter of waiting for sentences to be given out when Christ returns on judgment day (Matt 25:31-46).

Davy said:

I hold to what the 1st century Church fathers believed about Rev.20, that the "thousand years" will be a literal 1,000 years reign by Jesus beginning on the day of His return,

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As usual, you didn't dig far enough for the truth. You need to do more research before making claims like that. Some of the early church fathers believed similarly to amillennialists in that the thousand years would precede the return of Christ, but they believed, as premils do, that it was a literal thousand years. And many believed in amillennialism and premillennialism back then, also. There were different interpretations of Revelation 20 back then just as there are now. To act like they were all premillennialists is not even close to being true.

One of the early church fathers, Justin Martyr, who was a premillennialist, said this: "I and many others are of this opinion, and believe that such will take place...but, on the other hand, many who belong to the pure and pious faith, and are true Christians, think otherwise.”.

Davy said:

You need to stop making false accusations as if you think you know what you are talking about. You offer no evidence whatsoever for your statements above, so all that is just a political ranting, and nothing with Scriptural support in God's Word.

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You can look up the quote from Justin Martyr yourself. Your claim that the early church fathers all taught "that the "thousand years" will be a literal 1,000 years reign by Jesus beginning on the day of His return" is not true. So, tell me where I made a false accusation.

You are not one to accuse someone else of falsehood when you promote an unbiblical, heretical false second chance gospel for unbelievers who are resurrected from the dead in the future.

Spiritual Jew said:

You are not one to accuse someone else of falsehood when you promote an unbiblical, heretical false second chance gospel for unbelievers who are resurrected from the dead in the future.

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What is this resurrected unbeliever?